Nvidia or ATI

[Mussels]

Like i said in the other thread. Thats a good excuse to get a 3870 X2!

except that wizz did a review of it here on TPU, and its not living up to the hype. 3870 is only fast when other cards already breach 100 FPS, or it has an advantage at such high res all the cards are unplayable anyway.

 

[CDdude55]

except that wizz did a review of it here on TPU, and its not living up to the hype. 3870 is only fast when other cards already breach 100 FPS, or it has an advantage at such high res all the cards are unplayable anyway.

Thats pretty sad:shadedshu. Hopefully the 9800 GX2 will perform well. But will need a good CPU to handle then in SLi.

 

[erocker]

Thats pretty sad:shadedshu. Hopefully the 9800 GX2 will perform well. But will need a good CPU to handle then in SLi.

I honestly doubt the GX2 will be anything great. I don't feel the 3870x2 is all that great right now either. We'll have to see how things go. Nvidia doesn't have history on thier side when it comes to dual-gpu cards.

 

[Mussels]

I honestly doubt the GX2 will be anything great. I don't feel the 3870x2 is all that great right now either. We'll have to see how things go. Nvidia doesn't have history on thier side when it comes to dual-gpu cards.

no one does, really. dual GPU cards have always been flops.

 

[farlex85]

except that wizz did a review of it here on TPU, and its not living up to the hype. 3870 is only fast when other cards already breach 100 FPS, or it has an advantage at such high res all the cards are unplayable anyway.

Yes and as I recall the G92 GTS actually beat the x2 in a number of benchies, except the ones played at very high resolutions. And the GTS is over $100 cheaper. I say unless you got a wicked monitor go with the x38/x48 evga gts combo. Then when the 9800s come out you can do the step-up program if they r worth the trouble.

 

[CDdude55]

I honestly doubt the GX2 will be anything great. I don't feel the 3870x2 is all that great right now either. We'll have to see how things go. Nvidia doesn't have history on thier side when it comes to dual-gpu cards.

Good point. If they both suck i will just just me some console games instead.

 

[CDdude55]

The 3870 X2 is good for only high res gaming. But anything below at least a 22'' should just get the 8800 series cards IMO. Even with dual GPU's it still fails against the Ultra at a lower res. I just hope the 9800 GX2 isn't like the 7950 GX2.

 

[asb2106]

well i game at 1920 x 1200, I was at newegg and I was 30 seconds away from buying a 3870x2 but I just couldnt do it. I want to do more thinking before I do, and get those tax returns!

 

[snuif09]

go for an x2

 

[ChillyMyst]

i would go with the 3870x2 personaly, i have an 8800gt 512 and its nice BUT its drivers have their annoing little flaws/querks that just nagg at me, I went from an x1900xtx to this and to be honest the control center for nvidia is nicer then ati's CCC, BUT they got some driver issues like the YV12 color spacing being broken and certen games erroring out if you have ur driver settings to high for the game(makes u think ur cards going out!!!), as well as the driver bug that hits some people causing an INSTANT BSOD when you try and run anything other then basic 2d desktop apps, the yv12 and bsod issues have been known for over a year or YEARS even and nvidia hasnt seen fit to take the time to fix them, they are to worried about getting a few extra fps in the latist games like crysis......

honestly i think you will be happyer with the ati/amd card then with the nvidia at this point, and that x2 looks sweet.

btw ATI's dual x1950pro was a good card, the only problem was that sapphire wanted to much for it and didnt shrink the PCB from its design stage size(should see the size some motherboards are b4 they go thru a shrink!!!!)
my friend ted had 2 of the dual 1950 cards in his 580 board, VERY fast and acctualy worked pretty well, unlike the 2 7950gx2's he had in another rig(and sold because nvidia pretty much said they where not going to fix quad sli)

oh as to the 16/4 and 8/8 thing with pci-e, from what i have seen its not really an issue with CF that use the internal brige, if they dont have a brige then it can be a problem but we are talking HIGH end cards here.

 

[Mussels]

i would go with the 3870x2 personaly, i have an 8800gt 512 and its nice BUT its drivers have their annoing little flaws/querks that just nagg at me, I went from an x1900xtx to this and to be honest the control center for nvidia is nicer then ati's CCC, BUT they got some driver issues like the YV12 color spacing being broken and certen games erroring out if you have ur driver settings to high for the game(makes u think ur cards going out!!!), as well as the driver bug that hits some people causing an INSTANT BSOD when you try and run anything other then basic 2d desktop apps, the yv12 and bsod issues have been known for over a year or YEARS even and nvidia hasnt seen fit to take the time to fix them, they are to worried about getting a few extra fps in the latist games like crysis......

honestly i think you will be happyer with the ati/amd card then with the nvidia at this point, and that x2 looks sweet.

btw ATI's dual x1950pro was a good card, the only problem was that sapphire wanted to much for it and didnt shrink the PCB from its design stage size(should see the size some motherboards are b4 they go thru a shrink!!!!)
my friend ted had 2 of the dual 1950 cards in his 580 board, VERY fast and acctualy worked pretty well, unlike the 2 7950gx2's he had in another rig(and sold because nvidia pretty much said they where not going to fix quad sli)

oh as to the 16/4 and 8/8 thing with pci-e, from what i have seen its not really an issue with CF that use the internal brige, if they dont have a brige then it can be a problem but we are talking HIGH end cards here.

Just on the NV problems - with three 8800's in the house, and the several i've sold to friends we have
8600GT, 8800GT, 8800GTS (g80 and G92) and 3 8800GTX cards. The ONLY times i've had problems/crashes with the drivers (in infamous BSOD/crashes) was with a faulty or insufficient power supply, or an unstable system. My storage system was overclocked while a friend was gaming on it at a LAN event, and it kept spitting driver errors, even at stock - raised the ram votlage a notch, turned up the power on the PSU (OCZ powerstream has adjustable voltage rails) and we have NOT seen the problem since.

The drivers arent as bad as people think - its just other problems trigger off the drivers to reset, so people blame the drivers. (its about as retarded as being pulled over by the cops for speeding, and blaming the cop because you werent aware of it before he told you, so he must have been the cause)


I agree drivers are horrible for the 7950 GX2, those cards never worked right and drivers were nonexistant. i ran crossfire, and briefly 8800GTX SLI on some DFI boards that you could adjust the internal bandwidth - found SLI to be more prone to the lower bandwidth slots (the GTX's liked around 12x/12x, while ATI was happy with 8x/8x)

I think the ATI uses the bridge more efficiently, rather than the PCI-E bus.

 

[ChillyMyst]

the BSOD had nothing to do with my psu, same psu after 3 windows reinstalls and now the system is stable,it was 100% a driver bug, BFG head tech Jeff comfermed my problem and found other reports on the net about it, it mostly seems to effect server 2003 and os's based on that suck as xp x64 and even some vista systems!!!!

and i agree with the cf/sli thing, really nvidia just cloned alot of what voodoo had dont to get their dual card setups, the problem was they didnt do it very well, and it ended up being alot less efficent, where as ati started from scratch , the external dongle was a "bad" move but still as long as you got it setup it worked fine. once they moved to internal brige ati moved ahead, you get a larger boost even in boards that had 16x slots that changed into 4x slots when you used 2 of them(have only seen 2 of these boards but they do excist)

even brigless CF is more efficent with nvidia you really need 16x+16x for it to give proper perf, on the other hand with CF it can be 8x+8x and its gonns work just fine.

nvidia put that 7950gx2 out and everybody was all gaga for it, remmber arguements between ppl like me and the crazy ppl about the gx2 cards not really being 1gb, sure they have 1gb, but each chip only has 512, so you still dont really have 1gb texture memory, thats not how SLI works, but then most of the ppl who got those cards ended up VERY pissed when nv abandoned them :/

on the other hand the 1950pro x2 cards where just treated as normal crossfire setups on a singel card, so it wasnt an issue to get working driver support, it didnt take any kind of special drivers to make them work as i understand it they are effectivly 2 cards one is purly a slave tho(no outputs for video) and they use an internal cf brige to link them as well, very efficent and 1 pcb(huge ass pcb tho )

well back to zoids genisis

 

[asb2106]

thats the same problem my buddy has with his 8600gts, when loading a 3d app his screen will blank out and sometimes come back with a driver failed error, other times it just locks up. I know the PS is powerful enough, It powered my 7800gtx SLI system.

the first thing we thought was that it was the CPU/RAM. So we put everything back to stock and make sure it had more than enough power.

Still to this day I think its related to his MOBO (ECS Nivida 570) CRAP. But he wanted to stay cheap

 

[Poulpy]

Personnaly i would go with an ATI X2 as you will be able to do three or four way xfire when the drivers come out. Three way SLI (and no four way) is only available on Highest End NVIDIA VCs.

As much as i am pissed at ATI for crossfire driver support (which is improving) i still think its the best performance/price ratio.

Also most of my performance issues vanished when i siwtched to the maximus formula (X38) which has 2 * full *16 PCI-E slots.

And to say something already said many times......Crossfire scales up better than SLI.

 

[asb2106]

Personnaly i would go with an ATI X2 as you will be able to do three or four way xfire when the drivers come out. Three way SLI (and no four way) is only available on Highest End NVIDIA VCs.

As much as i am pissed at ATI for crossfire driver support (which is improving) i still think its the best performance/price ratio.

Also most of my performance issues vanished when i siwtched to the maximus formula (X38) which has 2 * full *16 PCI-E slots.

And to say something already said many times......Crossfire scales up better than SLI.

well im gonna get the rampage formula (ASUS x48) as soon as it gets released, and I think im gonna go single card, either a x2 or g92 gts.

I like the g92 because I wont need to upgrade my PS but if I get the x2 I will. So its not only an extra 100 for the card but another 200 for a good PS. So I guess it depends on my tax refund!

 

[candle_86]

the BSOD had nothing to do with my psu, same psu after 3 windows reinstalls and now the system is stable,it was 100% a driver bug, BFG head tech Jeff comfermed my problem and found other reports on the net about it, it mostly seems to effect server 2003 and os's based on that suck as xp x64 and even some vista systems!!!!

and i agree with the cf/sli thing, really nvidia just cloned alot of what voodoo had dont to get their dual card setups, the problem was they didnt do it very well, and it ended up being alot less efficent, where as ati started from scratch , the external dongle was a "bad" move but still as long as you got it setup it worked fine. once they moved to internal brige ati moved ahead, you get a larger boost even in boards that had 16x slots that changed into 4x slots when you used 2 of them(have only seen 2 of these boards but they do excist)

even brigless CF is more efficent with nvidia you really need 16x+16x for it to give proper perf, on the other hand with CF it can be 8x+8x and its gonns work just fine.

nvidia put that 7950gx2 out and everybody was all gaga for it, remmber arguements between ppl like me and the crazy ppl about the gx2 cards not really being 1gb, sure they have 1gb, but each chip only has 512, so you still dont really have 1gb texture memory, thats not how SLI works, but then most of the ppl who got those cards ended up VERY pissed when nv abandoned them :/

on the other hand the 1950pro x2 cards where just treated as normal crossfire setups on a singel card, so it wasnt an issue to get working driver support, it didnt take any kind of special drivers to make them work as i understand it they are effectivly 2 cards one is purly a slave tho(no outputs for video) and they use an internal cf brige to link them as well, very efficent and 1 pcb(huge ass pcb tho )

well back to zoids genisis

It wasnt untill this year that crossfire caught up with SLI, I think thats something your all forgetting, for a long time Crossfire had deminishing returns. Now they caught up with SLI so you dis SLI, how extremly funny. Also where did you get the idea its Voodoo SLI, look at the deal, SLI tech was sold to another company, Nvidia did not gain rights to SLI, only the name SLI, they also built theres from the ground up but using tried and true methods of splitting the work load

 

[asb2106]

It wasnt untill this year that crossfire caught up with SLI, I think thats something your all forgetting, for a long time Crossfire had deminishing returns. Now they caught up with SLI so you dis SLI, how extremly funny. Also where did you get the idea its Voodoo SLI, look at the deal, SLI tech was sold to another company, Nvidia did not gain rights to SLI, only the name SLI, they also built theres from the ground up but using tried and true methods of splitting the work load

Crossfire sucked until they went to an internal bridge.

The x1000 series was released before crossfire was introduced, and they tried to add xfire to an exstiting platform, to me thats an accomplishment in itself, once they had that in place and made new cards around it crossfire really came into its own. To me it doesnt matter who did it first, or who did it better, its who does it better now. And thats clearly crossfire

 

[asb2106]

heres what im thinkin.....

(NEED)ASUS Rampage Formula
(HAVE)Q6600
(HAVE)G-Skill ddr2 1000 2 x 2 kit
(NEED)ATI 3870x2 or Nvidia 8800gts g92
(IF)i got x2 I need a PS - PC Power Cooling 750 Orange
(NEED) Gigabyte 3dmars case
(NEED) TEC setup to add to my water

What you think?

 

[DanishDevil]

I'm not an intel guy, but other than that it looks pretty good. You've got a good PSU choice. I've got an Enermax Liberty, and while it's nice to have modular cables, they are a BITCH to sleeve (look @ pics of the PSU to see why - each cable has a molex and a sata right next to eachother for "easier upgrades") and when I upgrade I'm thinking of that PSU myself.

Looks great other than that nasty Q6600 I paid $100 for my X2 5000+ Black and I bumped it to 3GHz in ten seconds no hassle. But if you've got the money, that should be a good setup.

 

[anticlutch]

nVidia has raw power but shoddy driver support. ATi on the other hand, has weaker hardware but is constantly improving their drivers. Depends on what you want really...

 

[asb2106]

nVidia has raw power but shoddy driver support. ATi on the other hand, has weaker hardware but is constantly improving their drivers. Depends on what you want really...

thats the trouble, Ive been an ATI guy ever since my 9800, but for last few generations Nvidia has really outperformed. I would save about 300 bucks by going with the gts, but Id like to get the PS for the future too. The trupower can only handle so much, and this upgrade is basically gonna be just to get me through till summer, then I want to go with the next gen Nvidia 9000 series or the r700's that ATI is working on.

Im really stuck here, it seems those two will be very evenly matched in real performance

 

[Crazyhorse]

heres what im thinkin.....

(NEED)ASUS Rampage Formula
(HAVE)Q6600
(HAVE)G-Skill ddr2 1000 2 x 2 kit
(NEED)ATI 3870x2 or Nvidia 8800gts g92
(IF)i got x2 I need a PS - PC Power Cooling 750 Orange
(NEED) Gigabyte 3dmars case
(NEED) TEC setup to add to my water

What you think?

I think with that Rig you can actually go to Newegg.com and buy 2 x HD 2900 Pro 256bit and still be good on the power and save a huge amount of money. 2 x HD 2900 Pro 512mb 256bit = $300 - $15 MIR since its only 1 per household.

And if you clock it up to 750/1000 you be more then happy i think. Peformance is quiet similar to the HD 3870 at same speeds other then no DDR4, no DX 10.1 and a little bid more power usage.

 

[asb2106]

I think with that Rig you can actually go to Newegg.com and buy 2 x HD 2900 Pro 256bit and still be good on the power and save a huge amount of money. 2 x HD 2900 Pro 512mb 256bit = $300 - $15 MIR since its only 1 per household.

And if you clock it up to 750/1000 you be more then happy i think. Peformance is quiet similar to the HD 3870 at same speeds other then no DDR4, no DX 10.1 and a little bid more power usage.

thats actually a very interesting approach, and not a bad idea either, i really could care less about dx10.1 and the DDR4 really only saves alittle energy, I havnt noticed any performance increase. Im definitly gonna look into that.

 

[Crazyhorse]

I just ordered my second card today, i mean $149.99 - $15 MIR there is no card for that price out who can do that kind of damage with 512mb. I m sure the HD 3850 can perform that way overclocked as well but you still have to come up with at least $50 bucks more per card for equial performance.

My HD 2900 Pro runs right now 750/1000 can do as much as 840/1150 with a 1.15V Bios. And i run that card on a 500W PSU including the whole system overclocked. I ordered a Videocard PSU EP-450CD but that was somewhat dead out of the box. So i m waiting for a replacement i guess i will need it for Crossifre.

Only bad part is that these cards don't come with the Crossfire Bridge so you have to buy one extra.

 

[ChillyMyst]

Crossfire sucked until they went to an internal bridge.

The x1000 series was released before crossfire was introduced, and they tried to add xfire to an exstiting platform, to me thats an accomplishment in itself, once they had that in place and made new cards around it crossfire really came into its own. To me it doesnt matter who did it first, or who did it better, its who does it better now. And thats clearly crossfire

wrong, crossfire was introduced with the x800 line of cards, they started with an external dongle, and once the drivers where worked out it worked well, some people had trouble getting it working, in most situations tho people didnt have problems if they removed the old drivers and cleaned the system with driver cleaner b4 they updated to the new sets.

the external dongle was bad to many people because it to them was a cheap/cheezy way to do it and added more cables to the back of their systems, but in my experiance it worked fine, internal brige worked better once it came out, BUT you didnt see any reviews of the x800/x1900 CF systems compared with the x1950 internal brige systems side by side, the few benches i have seen that did test them showed very little diffrance when using the same base system and drivers.

the internal brige did bring one thing to ati, multi crossfire was possable, 2-3-4 cards linked togather became fully possable, now drivers have yet to mature for quadfire/trifire but we will see what comes later downt he road.

i really cant wait to see GPU phsyics