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Official Intel KF/F pricing

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#1
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#2
I mean, aren't they just binning chips with defective iGPUs?

How is that different from disabling the iGPU in the BIOS?
 
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#3
lol,I don't understand this,dumb pricing.Almost as dumb as buying a CPU with no igpu whatsoever.
 
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#4
lol,I don't understand this,dumb pricing.Almost as dumb as buying a CPU with no igpu whatsoever.
Esp since the intel cpus use quicksync, which helps in a few performance intensive apps
 
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#5
Esp since the intel cpus use quicksync, which helps in a few performance intensive apps
I had two gpus die,both took a month for rma replacement to get back, and was in between gpus several times. I can't imagine not having an igpu.
 
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#6
That is just stupid, so the only good thing about it is that there will be more CPU to buy so the prices maybe will be more normal... do not think so but it would be nice.
 
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#7
Huh... I expected maybe $20 off...but...kind of makes sense to keep it the same so these dont vulture sales from those who use discrete cards and dont have a real need for igpu.

lol,I don't understand this,dumb pricing.Almost as dumb as buying a CPU with no igpu whatsoever.
?????

There are entire lineups from both camps without...

I had two gpus die,both took a month for rma replacement to get back, and was in between gpus several times. I can't imagine not having an igpu.
Imagine a cheap AIC to have on hand just in case...an old GPU, etc. There are plenty of ways around it...easy to imagine. :)


PS - @TheLostSwede, how about an image of that list instead of forcing users to direct DL to see it. My phone and others just wanting to see it, thank you. :)
 
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#9
Huh... I expected maybe $20 off...but...kind of makes sense to keep it the same so these dont vulture sales from those who use discrete cards and dont have a real need for igpu.

?????

There are entire lineups from both camps without...

Imagine a cheap AIC to have on hand just in case...an old GPU, etc. There are plenty of ways around it...easy to imagine. :)


PS - @TheLostSwede, how about an image of that list instead of forcing users to direct DL to see it. My phone and others just wanting to see it, thank you. :)
I don't work for TPU, I simply linked to the official Intel price list, but you're welcome...
 
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#11
Greed rules once again.
:confused: Isn't complaining about not getting a discount just as greedy?

If a company does not have a monopoly on the market (and Intel surely doesn't) prices are set to (1) be competitive, (2) based on supply and demand and (3) production costs which are (4) based on availability of raw materials and (5) logistics and overhead.

When I look at that list, what do I see? Not one price "increase". That's a good thing.

Plus, those are retail prices, not what Amazon or Newegg charges.
 

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#12
:confused: Isn't complaining about not getting a discount just as greedy?

If a company does not have a monopoly on the market (and Intel surely doesn't) prices are set to (1) be competitive, (2) based on supply and demand and (3) production costs which are (4) based on availability of raw materials and (5) logistics and overhead.

When I look at that list, what do I see? Not one price "increase". That's a good thing.

Plus, those are retail prices, not what Amazon or Newegg charges.
Are you saying it's a good thing Intel isn't increasing prices as they sell off chips with no iGPU? Maybe I'm missing something... but I would think if someone is producing and selling a product, the lessor/defective product could reasonably be expected to sell for less... given that it's defective, and if not sold, would be scrapped. These are chips that made it to the shelves rather than the scrap bin, where they normally would be (as no Intel MSDT chips exist without iGPU since Sandy Bridge, with the exception of that oddball 2550k). And now, rather than tossing them in the scrap bin, Intel created a new SKU to sell these "bad" chips off. I'd think they should cost less than their non defective counterparts.
 
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#13
Are you saying it's a good thing Intel isn't increasing prices
A good thing? Isn't it always good (for the buyer) that prices don't go up? Of course I would always like to see prices go down (as a buyer). But just because I don't get a "discount" (which is what the OP was complaining about), does that imply "greed" on the part of the seller? No.
 
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#14
Discount? You get less of a product for the same price. Seems the OP wants "value" not a discount.
 
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#15
Seems the OP wants "value" not a discount.
Don't we all? I don't even mine paying extra if I feel like I get good value for my money. It is like eating at a fancy restaurant. If the food and atmosphere are good, and you don't walk away still hungry, that's good value.
 
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#16
Discount? You get less of a product for the same price. Seems the OP wants "value" not a discount.
You get less of a product for the same price all the time. It's called inflation.
If you want value, there's a 4C4T for $117 as well. 4C4T from red camp costs $99.
Intel is targeting a specific niche. If you spend $100 on LEDs in your case and $500 on watercooling, you might as well accept extra $60 on a CPU.
8350K isn't much cheaper and is selling very well.
Don't worry. Intel knows how to position their products.
 
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#17
Discount? You get less of a product for the same price.
You get less of a product for the same price all the time. It's called inflation.
How is it less of a product if it is the same product?

They even decided to charge $5 more for the i3-9350KF over the older i3-8350K.
:( They are NOT the same product! With just a tiny bit of homework you can see, while similar, they are NOT the same product.

Intel Ark Core i3-9350KF - note it supports Turbo Boost mode and has a maximum clock speed of 4.6GHz.

Intel Ark Core i3-8350K - while it has integrated graphics, it does NOT support Turbo Boost and has a maximum clock speed of 4.0GHz.
 

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#19
I don't mind paying for something if I feel I'm getting a fair deal either, Bill, but walking away from a sale where I was sold a "defective" product for the same price as a non-defective product just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. How they gonna sell me a defective chip with less features than the full, non-defective chip for the same price? I would pick the "KF" chip over the "K" chip if they knocked off a reasonable amount off the price... let's pick the 9600k. It's $260 on newegg right now. If there was a 9600kf for $220, I might consider it... but for the same $260? Why on Earth would I buy the lessor chip for the same money?
 
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#20
Your New Snickers bar in new 2019 packaging
Contains less Sugar and coco solids and now in 60g Bars (previously 65g )
But STILL THE SAME VALUE PRICE
Of course I see the difference. But that is not same thing as here. Those candy bars are still labeled as "Snickers" - not a different model number as the two processors above. The higher priced CPU does have a higher processor speed so at least you are getting more there (though no graphics). But point being, it is not being sold as the same product.

A few years ago when my dad passed (oddly, your dad passed on my mom's birthday), I was cleaning out a long forgotten bathroom closet and found a package of Charmin toilet paper and a few bars of bath soap. Both must have been in that closet for 20 years or longer.

I was immediately surprised to "feel" how heavy the bars of soap were compared to newly purchased bars of the same brand - yet the bars were the same size and shape. Then I realized what they did. They "whipped" a HUGE amount of air into the soap during production. This explains why I alone can go through a bar of soap in a couple weeks today when, 50 years ago when I was a kid, a bar of soap lasted at least that long with 4 people taking daily baths/showers.

It was similar with the toilet paper - the marketing hype over "quilted" toilet paper makes you cleaner is pure bull. All quilting does is make each layer on the roll take up more thickness. So you end up getting fewer layers, thus less paper on each roll. But more surprising was the width of the old toilet paper. It was a full 5 inches wide and actually fit on the holder. Go look at roll today and it will barely be 4 1/4 inches wide.

It was the same experience I found with new (but old) boxes I found with Kleenix. Today's tissues are not as wide or long, and there are fewer sheets in the box.

"New and Improved", my a$$.

Remember when a 3lb can of coffee really weighed 3lbs?

but walking away from a sale where I was sold a "defective" product for the same price as a non-defective product just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That would me too. But you are inaccurately calling something "defective" in this scenario. If the 2nd CPU did not work as marketed, that would be "defective".

What you are alluding too is actually a very common manufacturing practice. Way back in the day, all floppy disks were manufactured as DSDD (double sided-double density). They were then tested and if a side failed testing, it might be labeled and sold as SSDD (single sided-double density) or SSSD (single side-single density). But like these CPUs, they were labeled as different products.

The happens today with RAM. RAM is often manufactured as faster RAM but if it cannot pass testing at those faster speeds, it is often labeled and marketed as slower RAM. Does that mean it is defective? I guess it depends on how you look at it, but if the products actual performance at least meets the product specs, I don't call that defective.
 

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#21
Now I feel like you're arguing semantics. You and I both know that when I say "defective", I mean defective in the sense that the iGPU portion of the die doesn't work, and instead of that chip being a 9600k, for example, it gets the "9600kf" SKU and makes its way to the shelf rather than the scrap bin. It's a common manufacturing practice, yeah... it's why we have, for example, Phenom II x3 chips, which are quad cores with one defective core disabled... but when you buy an x3, you're paying less than what you would pay for an x4. When you buy DDR4 3000, you pay less than if you had bought a 3600 kit... however, when you buy a KF chip, you pay the same as you would a K chip, despite the fact they're selling you a "defective" product, of course, defective in the sense that something was wrong with it, so it became a KF chip instead of a K chip, not defective in the sense that you bought a totally dead chip.
 
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#22
Now I feel like you're arguing semantics.
No! Come on! Is Intel marketing the processor as having integrated graphics? NO!!!!!!!!!!!

The iGPU doesn't work because it is disabled. That is not the same as defective. Defective, by definition means it is faulty. Do the 9350KF processors work as marketed? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fact iGPUs in other processors might have failed at a higher rate than acceptable is immaterial in this scenario. The fact Intel is able to recoup some of their investment is just plain good business and it prevents a total loss on all that R&D and related investments. And that ultimately means better prices for consumers as those losses will not be passed on to us!

And again, the 9350KF also supports Turbo Mode and runs at a faster clock speed. If they were the same processor, then using your logic, the 8350K must have been "defective" too because it's turbo mode must have been faulty and because it only ran at 4GHz.

Do a search on Bill_Bright and "marketing weenies" and you will see I have no love for deceptive and stupid marketing schemes. But Intel is being neither deceptive nor stupid in this case.

What I see is simple Intel bashing. My advice, buy AMD. Oh, nevermind. As you said, they do it too. :rolleyes:

I joined this thread because Intel was bashed because they didn't offer "discounts" on a "faster" CPU. I stand by my decision and position in that matter.
 

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#23
Alright then...

No! Come on! Is Intel marketing the processor as having integrated graphics? NO!!!!!!!!!!!
No, of course not. That would be silly. Why would they do that? :)

The iGPU doesn't work because it is disabled. That is not the same as defective. Defective, by definition means it is faulty. Do the 9350KF processors work as marketed? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fact iGPUs in other processors might have failed at a higher rate than acceptable is immaterial in this scenario. The fact Intel is able to recoup some of their investment is just plain good business and it prevents a total loss on all that R&D and related investments. And that ultimately means better prices for consumers as those losses will not be passed on to us!
How are failed iGPUs immaterial? That's likely the whole reason the KF series exists. Defective iGPU (as in, actually defective, does not work as intended) -> KF series, as opposed to the full K series, with working, non-defective iGPU. I understand the definition of defective, you don't need to throw the dictionary at me (which is why I said you were arguing semantics). Of course I'm not saying the KF series is defective as sold. I'm saying the KF series exists because the iGPU portion of the die was defective, so rather than scrapping it, they created the KF SKU to sell off the chips with the defective iGPU. KF chips are clearly marketed as not having an iGPU, therefore the defective portion of the die is a non issue, but that iGPU in those KF chips is still defective, which is why it doesn't work, which is why the iGPU-less KF series exists. The KF chips are not defective as sold, though they do carry a defective component... a component the processor is not marketed as having, so it's a non-issue for someone buying the KF chip. Of course it's good business sense to make use of "less than perfect" products... but the issue I and others take with that is the fact that the KF series costs the same as the non-defective K series.

And again, the 9350KF also supports Turbo Mode and runs at a faster clock speed. If they were the same processor, then using your logic, the 8350K must have been "defective" too because it's turbo mode must have been faulty and because it only ran at 4GHz.
That's news to me: I wasn't aware the 8350k didn't have turbo. I can't imagine why it doesn't when so many other chips do, but I wouldn't call it defective. The only time I would have an issue with a chip not having turbo boost is in a scenario where there might be an i5 8400, which has turbo boost, and a fictitious "i5-8400 NT" which does not have turbo boost, yet costs the same as the i5 8400. As with the KF series, I would hazard a guess that the "i5-8400 NT" was defective in some way where the chip wouldn't work correctly with turbo boost, but works fine when turbo boost is disabled, so they disable turbo boost at the factory and create an "NT" SKU for it to sell off defective chips rather than scrapping them... which is fine, but not for the same price as the non-defective i5-8400 with working turbo.

Do a search on Bill_Bright and "marketing weenies" and you will see I have no love for deceptive and stupid marketing schemes. But Intel is being neither deceptive nor stupid in this case.

What I see is simple Intel bashing. My advice, buy AMD. Oh, nevermind. As you said, they do it too. :rolleyes:

I joined this thread because Intel was bashed because they didn't offer "discounts" on a "faster" CPU. I stand by my decision and position in that matter.
I've bought both AMD and Intel, and purchase whatever fits my needs/wants at the price I can afford. Same with AMD and nVidia. I'm neither pro or anti <<insert company here>> because I think Intel is t3h suxx or AMD rules the world. I'm simply calling a bad deal when I see one, this time from Intel.
 
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#24
How are failed iGPUs immaterial?
Why are you taking my comment out of context? Because you just want to argue. I said, and you even quoted, but ignored it so I will put it in bold underline and itallics this time just for you, "immaterial in this scenario".
That's news to me:
That's because you are not following this thread. You are just jumping in just to bash. If you were following and actually did your homework, or if you had simply followed the links I provided for you above before posting, you would see the 8350K didn't have Turbo mode - according to Intel's own Ark documentation.

I note the OP commented on the i3-9350KF the i3-8350K. Yet you have tried to obfuscate this thread thus far by trying to bash Intel further with irreverent comments about the 2550K, 9600K, 9600KF, i5 8400, and a "fictitious" i5-8400 NT :rolleyes:. So it is clear, you are just here to argue (without doing any homework to verify your facts) and bash Intel for whatever minuscule issue you can think of (or "guess" about) instead of having an intelligent debate about the price list the OP posted about.

I'm done here. Have a good day.
 
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hat

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#25
At this point, we will just have to agree to disagree. However, I will make one last remark defending my ability to participate in an "intelligent debate" by reiterating the fact that my "irreverent" comments were simply made to compare similar products which I also believe should come with a lessor price, being a lessor product (usually lack of iGPU, or in the case of my fictitious i5-8400NT, lack of turbo boost).

As far as homework and hard facts go, however, I will point out that in the OP's PDF, every "KF" model with a directly corresponding "K" model (i.e., not the 9350KF vs 8350k, but 9900KF vs 9900K, 9700KF vs 9700K etc) carries the same price as the K model. You pay the same, but don't get integrated graphics. Do you still think that's okay? Or maybe it should be a few bucks cheaper?
 
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