oh, goody.. a C++ programming book

[Ketxxx]

Any general tips? never tried C++ before now I have to.. its got me using an app called Dev C++, whatever the hell that does. I know its a compiler.. but thats about it lol.

 

[Canuto]

Bump

 

[W1zzard]

i really suggest you get yourself m$ visual c++ (visual studio).. there's a free learner's edition out there which should be good enough for what you have to do

what do you have to do with it?

 

[melkhior]

i really suggest you get yourself m$ visual c++ (visual studio).. there's a free learner's edition out there which should be good enough for what you have to do

what do you have to do with it?

Yeah, I'm agree with W1zzard. Way better Visual Studio Express Edition (I'm using at the moment VS 2005 with MSDN).

I recommend you to download a C/C++ tutorial with some examples.

BTW, DevC++ it's and IDE, not a compiler. The compiler is the "program" that translate high level language to assembler. DevC++ uses GCC++ for compile and GDB for debbug.

If you have any problem/question I can try to help, but I advice you that my english is not as good as i want

 

[Ketxxx]

what do you have to do with it?

game programming bok itself is "beginning C++ programming game programming" written by some bloke called michael dawson and printed by the good people at premier press tis supposed to be a good book, professional technical reference and all that.
thanks melk, i might just have to take you up on that offer... rather regularly
ed- i also have beginning visual C# 2005, which, i assume is probably something like the M$ visual basic stuff

 

[melkhior]

Seems to be an interesting book. But I recommend you to learn programming before trying to do "useful things". You know, understanding the syntaxis of the lenguage, the pointers, the arrays, etc etc...

BTW Visual C# 2005 has nothing to do with VB. C# is a "C++ Evolution".

 

[Ketxxx]

hmm, so i have a C++ book that covers general stuff and probably rambles on about the language, where the games programming book teaches me something useful.. i'll stick with the games programming for now as i already started it

 

[melkhior]

So you begin progamming like I began xD. When you have something to try, please, post it .

 

[Ketxxx]

I will probably take a few weeks before im ready to get adventurous tho and start putting bits of code together myself, ive literally just got to the "game over" thing, and thats like 4 lines of code only lol

 

[Jimmy 2004]

Not meaning to hijack your thread Ketxxx

but I was wondering how the best way to start programming is... I have no experience at all (the only coding I've ever done is basic HTML and I've forgotten most of that ) and I'm interesting in starting to learn the basics, but I don't have a clue where to start, is C++ a good way to get going or should I be aiming for something more simple? Hopefully someone here will be able to help

Sorry is this sounds real noobish but I honestly don't know anything about this topic! I nomally grasp things fairly quickly as long as the theory behind it is explained - I don't like just being shown something and being able to copy it, I like to know how it works.

 

[Slater]

C++ == god

 

[melkhior]

C++ == god

Probably, but I prefer to learn first C and then C++. I think is the best way to learn programming.

Jimmy 2004, there are lots of great programming books. I recommend you to begin with C, not VB, C++ or Java. Also you can visit specialiced programming web sites with tutorial, faqs, etc...

 

[Ketxxx]

Not meaning to hijack your thread Ketxxx

but I was wondering how the best way to start programming is... I have no experience at all (the only coding I've ever done is basic HTML and I've forgotten most of that ) and I'm interesting in starting to learn the basics, but I don't have a clue where to start, is C++ a good way to get going or should I be aiming for something more simple? Hopefully someone here will be able to help

Sorry is this sounds real noobish but I honestly don't know anything about this topic! I nomally grasp things fairly quickly as long as the theory behind it is explained - I don't like just being shown something and being able to copy it, I like to know how it works.

C++ is probably a good starting point for you then, its very commonly used - just about every application in fact is coded with C++ including games. Despite what it may look like in the beginning, its not actually all that complicated, from what I've seen so far (which isnt a lot admittedly) it is much more straightforward than XHTML\HTML or a multitude of other languages. The tricky bit with C++ though is getting the code to work well, getting it to work is one thing, but actually getting it to work well is a different story. Lets take Oblivion as the example - it runs slow, is more than likely coded with C++, but it looks nice. So why does it run slow? Quite simply because A: a bunch of debug code was more than likely left in, slowing it down a lot, and B: the programmers were just plain lazy and didnt bother optimising the code much. Before anyone goes off on a rant, just look at any graphics card review where oblivion was used, nomatter how powerful the card framerates still arent very good.

 

[Deleted member 3]

C++ == god

Interesting paradox.

God created us and we create new C++ code which is God.

 

[Alec§taar]

Probably, but I prefer to learn first C and then C++. I think is the best way to learn programming.

I don't recommend that, because that is the route I took in the "C" family of derivant languages, & it messed me up, LARGE, going from C to C++ during my academia period in the early 90's coding on PC's @ least... you seem to understand & know some about this, & tell me I am NOT "telling it how it is"...

Sure, it's GOOD background, for a 'compare & contrast' approach to them both, but BIG differences in how projects are even built, let alone the "uncontrolleable-ness" of C, vs. C++... different way of thinking, period.

I'd say, go PURE "object-oriented" in C++ & don't look back... move onto Java &/or C# afterwards... because, again, imo @ least?

C & C++ are syntactically CLOSE, but also many differences (this hosed me, a LOT, just @ the syntax level alone, because I 'regressed' to doing C syntax a lot, vs. C++ stuff (e.g. new-delete vs. malloc-free)... but, the larger difference is in HOW you have to think about & approach them both.

Personally? For what I do?? I steer clear of C/C++/C# & do nothing but VB.NET & ASP.NET or Delphi & Access nowadays talking to back-end servers like Oracle or SQLServer. Faster & easier imo @ least... & WORKS!

APK

P.S.=> One thing I can advise, as far as tools to use? Visual Studio 2005... it makes it as easy as it gets, & is WIDELY used... sticking by Microsoft assures you a WIDE 'surface area' of job opportunity... in PC/Client-Server environs @ least, professionally... W1zz has this totally right imo! apk

 

[Alec§taar]

but I was wondering how the best way to start programming is...

Honestly? Get a BASIC course in programming in C++, then, once you learn some basics (file I/O, pointers, arrays, linked lists (singly & double), structures, & lastly classes & objects (these latter, imo @ least? Structures w/ encapsulated data & potentially SEALED & SAFE functions/procedures/subroutines in them that work on said data))...

& then, start an idea of a program YOU want to create (filemanagers are GOOD ones to start w/ imo @ least, so you start to learn the Win32 API if you code on Windows for instance)

Others might NOT advise this: a course called "data structures"... it teaches you tricks/tips/techniques for basics you don't 'pick up' in 101 basic level courses & helps you avoid conceptual mistakes bigtime.

I have no experience at all (the only coding I've ever done is basic HTML and I've forgotten most of that )

Man, it is nearly NOTHING like it, unless you have used JavaScript/ActiveScript embedded in it... nothing like HTML really, @ all.

and I'm interesting in starting to learn the basics, but I don't have a clue where to start, is C++ a good way to get going or should I be aiming for something more simple? Hopefully someone here will be able to help

Honestly? Coursework... go to a local community college, pickup a course, & see if you like it or not... not everyone does. It is HARD @ first, especially for "right-brained" folks (vs. left-brained types)...

Barring that - a book w/ an example project MIGHT help, but it will likely assume you know the basics, first.

It's NOT unlearnable though, so don't think that... even if you are a "primarily right-brained" kind of person? You CAN 'train yourself' to do it & learn it...

Sorry is this sounds real noobish but I honestly don't know anything about this topic! I nomally grasp things fairly quickly as long as the theory behind it is explained - I don't like just being shown something and being able to copy it, I like to know how it works.

It's ok to be "noobish", & @ times? I still feel that way writing code, even after 14 years of it... especially when I get tossed into NEW languages (.NET being my latest foray here, last couple years now)... might be the best way to approach it in fact, an "admission of guilt" & knowing your limitations @ first.

Sounds like a course MAY be the best way to do it, mainly because the "101" level classes give you foundations of understanding that higher level courses assume you have, first.

Concepts & basics are #1 though... fundamentals, first.

If you are a musical person? You'll understand this part - it is truly the difference between using 'tableture', & being able to read music... you will have a GREATER understanding of computers period, if you approach it THIS way...

You will start looking @ others' work & say "I would have done this THIS way, or I bet he wrote it this way" etc. because you have GREAT low-level understanding of this field & @ this level (from whence ALL begins).

Maybe, "The Who" said it best in their tune "THE SEEKER":

"I've looked under chairs, I've looked under tables - I've tried to find the key, to 50 million fables"...

My 'adaptation' of it is this: "I've sat in a 100 chairs, & ripped thru 5 million database tables - to separate the truth via SQL from 50 zillion misconceptions + fables"...

* Get into it, find your answers as you go, because THIS? Never changes in this madness-n-lunacy!

EDIT PART - I can & WILL warn you though, about 1 thing: This stuff, it can REALLY 'turn you into a nerd', you will 'lose things' & start to look @ life & things differently due to this field @ THIS level... a good thing, & in some ways, a BAD thing (happened to me)...

APK

P.S.=> The MAIN thing, imo, about computer languages, & being able to "port them" between one another? Is to understand some principles, first... that allows you to understand questions to ask, like "I know how to do this in VB, so what is the syntactical analog in Delphi or C/C++?"...

I'll advise ANY of you 1 thing for sure though - the STEADY MONEY is in IS/MIS/IT coding, doing database work/info. systems (where I make my living)... nobodies' data is 100% alike & neither are their ways of doing business... thus, there is ALWAYS work in it, worldwide... not true of game coding!

Plus, things change & need updating/upgrading a LOT in this field to adapt to customer demands & changes in data (reports alone abound in update/maintenancing, mostly I have found)... lot more work availability & maintenancing code, even though it is 'looked down upon' as the 'janitor level' of work in this field?

Teaches you TONS... just by having to learn others' way of thinking/doing this stuff (lots of "play" here)... You will probably look @ a few guys stuff if you end up doing that @ times to make money & say as I did "Who was this nut & WHAT was he thinking", initially & then after? Say "WoW... never thought of doing it THAT way!"... you learn!

Your BEST pal here? SQL... it is THE 'key' & used in them all for this type of work, fairly simple (for the MOST part) & always used & is incredible stuff... universally used, an 'ancillary language' that ALL of them use for database work! apk

 

[Oliver_FF]

I pride myself in my C++ abilities, i've written some pretty cool stuff using it and I have to say, it's a very powerful language.

I'm also fluent in VB and Java - VB is good for quick and dirty programs, Java is good for.... ok, so I'm a java hater Java works on many platforms, but so does C++ if you avoid the OS-specific header files...

I learnt C++ from this great online tutorial found here:
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/
It really is quite good - some of the later parts will require re-reading and more reading as it starts to get complicated, but it's well focussed and the examples they give are easy to follow.

As for using the Win32 API's pr creating a GUI in C++, i'd recommend it be the last thing you try - all the odd data types that M$ have thrown in and renamed makes it a mess. Stick with the console for a while, it's not all that bad

 

[Jimmy 2004]

Thanks for all the help guys, especially the tutorial link - I'll take a look at that when I get a chance.

 

[Alec§taar]

VB is good for quick and dirty programs

Yes, it is... & above all? IT WORKS... & is simpler to understand, but I still recommend taking lower level languages, like Assembly or C/C++ (the latter today prefereably, so you don't get 'confused' conceptually later when learning C++ AFTER C as I initially did).

BUT, it can be looked @ & is by many, as "tableture" vs. being able to read music (musical folks WILL get me here, if they code as well). Hence, why I used that analogy above... closest mundane example I could think of that some here might "grok"...

I extend VB a LOT quite often, using the Win32 API (or, build stdcall DLL's in other faster languages for it to use, either method works)...

Just for better speed &/or control if necessary... I never knock the Win32 API, because it has saved my ass a few times (sleep vs. doEvents is a prime example thereof in fact while looping thru returned recordsets, & populating grids, especially in Terminal Server/Citrix multi-user program environs).

, Java is good for.... ok, so I'm a java hater Java works on many platforms, but so does C++ if you avoid the OS-specific header files...

True that, especially IF you're looking to go 'cross-platform' in your code... true cross platform, not ASP.NET server-side rendered XML data & forms (a better form of ISAPI dll imo today, garbage cleanup & all like Java).

I like C++ here, & Delphi as well.

As for using the Win32 API's pr creating a GUI in C++, i'd recommend it be the last thing you try - all the odd data types that M$ have thrown in and renamed makes it a mess. Stick with the console for a while, it's not all that bad

LOL, yea... the documentation can KILL you... but, here is where the "low-level" fundamentals of datatypes & their memory addresseability ranges help for example (you know what I mean most likely here).

Console app work, good advice... because if there is no "prebuilt turnkey solution" like reskit tools? YOU CAN BUILD YOUR OWN... this is great for network administrators & scripting imo & experience!

APK

P.S.=> Err Trapping too, LEARN it, & use it, especially for function call return values of success vs. failure... too many guys omit it! When I was a "shareware/freeware" author, I have caught that in a few guys work & turned them onto it... the difference between a GOOD program & a GREAT one many times imo! apk

 

[Alec§taar]

Thanks for all the help guys, especially the tutorial link - I'll take a look at that when I get a chance.

LOL, yup... you're entering "the final evolution stage" of the computer-nerd... & you CAN'T say "APK didn't warn me"...



* Enjoy, it's a LONG road, but one worth taking IF you intend to stay in this field... imo, it is necessary today to have a GOOD solid grasp of it, if you intend to be successful in this field... Me?

I'm FINALLY leaving this end of it, @ last ('code monkey' portion as it is often called by system analysts & mgt. but they are the monkeys largely imo)

This is NOT a "put-down" & yet? It is... I say it, MAINLY, because they have NO CLUE many times, in the details end, where you live OR die imo!

See, imo? ANYBODY can come up w/ that "1,000 foot view" but, it is a VERY FEW that can understand what is doable, & what is not, & this only comes via experience @ the ground level)...

FINALLY, arriving, lol, @ my goal initially!

To be that "better manager", imo? YOU HAD TO HAVE WALKED A MILE IN YOUR SUBORDINATES SHOES... too many mgt. folks in this field, @ THIS level (not so much in network engineering though) have not... NOT good imo, not @ all.

Toyota is particularly SUCCESSFUL, because they "grow their mgt. internally"... this IS, imo, the ONLY way.

Project mgt. is next FINALLY, for me... better monies by FAR first of all!

Secondly, because my first degree IS mgt. w/ IS concentration, & I have 2 yrs. of actual mgt. under my belt!

(I was literally (according to the #'s @ least) THE best in a HUGE retail chain of 318 stores @ loss prevention level nearly 2 decades or more back now, when I departed this field for a bit, to find where I wanted to work (what industry specifically) hate to say it, but it is true)...

However, being "only that normal guy"? Well, I never respected what I was doing fully OR myself while doing it, because I had to depend on others ALL the time, especially IS/IT/MIS folks.

So, the "journey's over" for me @ that level now...

@ this point, I feel that I've 'walked that mile in other's shoes now' for 14 yrs. & it's time to return to my roots, & better pay...

Plus, ONLY NOW, Am I really able speak to "normal folks" & provide analogs (like the tableture one above for a poor example I suppose) they CAN understand, & NOT "overnerd/overtechno" them, bumming them out!

I always hated it when I was lol, "normal"... & loved guys that put things in terms I COULD grasp, via analogy...

So, like I said about "The Who" tune above? Quote another line from it - "I won't get to get what I'm after (till the day I die)"... & the coder part of me, dies this year.

Time for mgt. roles again, albeit, STRONGLY related to this field itself, instead of other levels in the production-distribution-retail chain of cause/effect in business.

Oh, & NEVER THROW AWAY CODE YOU WROTE! It can save you, & save you time... why reinvent the wheel, if you already have one that works (improving it later, & adapting it, as needed).

APK

P.S.=> It seems to me @ least, that the computer man of the 60's-80's has come full circle & back then? You HAD to understand coding imo, vs. just being able to read a manual & spit back a set of steps... you WILL need to know it, to be competitive today... vs. others! It will be the 'hair splitting' stuff that separates the men from the boys & WILL help you in troubleshooting too, because you will have a FAR greater understanding of HOW this stuff, really works... good luck! apk

 

[Jimmy 2004]

I don't plan to take this field up as a career, it's only a hobby - TBH I don't think I enjoy spending all my time writing software, but I would like to have some knowledge so I can better understand any apps that I use and maybe create simple programs when I wish there was something Windows could so whihc it doesn't.

 

[Alec§taar]

I don't plan to take this field up as a career, it's only a hobby - TBH I don't think I enjoy spending all my time writing software, but I would like to have some knowledge so I can better understand any apps that I use and maybe create simple programs when I wish there was something Windows could so whihc it doesn't.

Honestly? I agree... if you read what I wrote above?? Coding, especially for BUSINESS, always interested me, because your data can tell you TONS & is a decision making weapon... an incredible ally.

I'm NOT a 'left-brained' type of guy, NOT really... I have to actually WORK @ coding, where others I know? Heck, do not @ all... but, they are terrible leaders, & terrible @ communicating w/ what I call "normal" folks and make 1 huge mistake I never agree with:

Thinking "normal folks" are stupid...

Man - they're not, but they DO tend to be ignorant of possibles + what can be done, & what cannot, & are not able to verify results well for decision making processes & assume "all is 100% correct" & many times, it is not or not as good as it can be.

They excel @ business process understanding & you USE them for this, just as they use coders for doing the "nuts & bolts" to 'make it happen'...

STILL, the best bosses I ever had were guys that could 2nd-guess me & knew how to do this stuff as well & could help when deadline was coming.

Especially if you can do it as well as your subordinates, because they DO make mistakes, & you can catch them in them (yes, they happen, I make them too)... & also jump into the mud w/ them & do actual work IF a deadline's looming!

I will never ascribe to the viewpoint "I don't need to know the nuts & bolts, but just have to know where to look, who to hire, & who to ask"...

That's dangerous b.s.!

Especially w/ NEW mgt. hired from external environs (other companies, based on resumes OR connections (sad but true) ONLY)...

The newb mgr.'s still don't have a FULL grasp of the new company, but many middle mgt. figures are hired on THIS VERY BASIS: Mainly, because they are an unknown, & thus feared, & shield "top mgt." from micromgt. duties... this IS where upper mgt. covers them, & they are ONLY there (lower mgt.) to execute policy really.

Good mgt.? Especially @ the mid-level/foreman level, @ least imo??

They're absolutely capable of double checking work, like math OR dataset results + understanding it & the desired end-goal as well? Absolute requirement #1, & secondly? KNOWING WHAT IS POSSIBLE/DOABLE, & what is not + being able to cost-it-out, both TIME & DOLLARS-WISE, accurately.

LOL, but, your view? That is HOW I started @ it... & here I am, finally going back to where I wanted to be (a better mgr.!). Straight Comp. Sci. & computers know-how @ a network engineer + coding level?

Heck, they were just a "stepping stone" to a better life initially, but then? Heck, I found them INTERESTING!!! (Oh noooo, lol!).

Experience, hands-on? THE ONLY way... again, Toyota, they are INCREDIBLY successful because of this viewpoint, & I agree w/ it, totally 110%: Mgt. grown from w/in/homegrown, step-by-step, inside said company in question (no externals hired typically)...

AND, the only way to get there? Learn something to supplement YOU, bettering YOU and thus, your company too...

APK

P.S.=> Computers, above all, are JUST A TOOL... like air wrenches are for mechanics I suppose... understanding them, being able to leverage & understand them FULLY, is only a stepping stone for me @ least... arming myself against this world I guess!

Above all, do NOT let it turn you into "Lt. Commander DATA" because it CAN... not a joke! Don't lose your "finer points" in the process I guess is what I am trying to say, your "human you"... & GOOD LUCK!

I bet, years down the road, once you get ahold of it well @ THIS level specifically? You'll KNOW exactly what I mean here... if you pursue it that far that is! apk

 

[Jimmy 2004]

Downloading M$ Visual C++ Express now, decided to get the whole package in case I need all of it so that's 372MB, probably about half and hour or so and then I'll get going!

 

[Alec§taar]

Downloading M$ Visual C++ Express now, decided to get the whole package in case I need all of it so that's 372MB, probably about half and hour or so and then I'll get going!

Every journey, begins with that first step - & you need a toolset to concentrate on/with!



* Ms' stuff is as good as any, & in SOME ways, better than others, because there are SO many PC's out there & so many in client-server business' environs... far greater than any other, increasing your "employ potential" (not your goal, yet @ least)...

Again: Good Luck, enjoy it, & look @ the examples that come w/ it (full model has many on many kinds of coding, but I am not sure on "express" builds)...

APK

P.S.=> Do listen to what others write here as well, my viewpoint is just that (only my own)... apk

 

[Ketxxx]

dont be a weeny jimmy learn lots so u can show driver programmers how a driver should really be made thats one reason why im doing programming, and the other is so i can modify game engines in a lot more detail