Outrageously irritating RAID problem!

[pumpkin_feet]

Howdy. I have an MSI 770 mb with an AMD sb710 south bridge chipset, what the raid is on. And its not working!

Basically, in the BIOS under 'On-chip ATA Devices' there is an option marked 'Raid Mode' from which you can select either IDE, RAID or AHCI. If you select IDE, everything is fine, but of course there is RAID functionality. If you select RAID, there is the usual create array setup options, BUT with this mode set the BIOS no longer recognises any SATA drives (although the raid setup screen does). And niether does the computer- the non-Raided SATA drive that windows is on does not load, the comp acts like it has no drives (actually, the windows loading screen appears for a second, then the comp restarts).

Basically, it seems like the onboard RAID allows for no raid, or ALL sata drives on raid, it doesnt seem to allow some on raid and some not. Surely this is not meant to be how it works. Unfortunately I cant find any manuals to help with this, both the msi and amd support is non existent when it comes to raid.

IF anyone could help me, I would be SO grateful! Its really really annoying me, especially because raid pci-e cards aren't that cheap!

Thanks!

 

[Wile E]

Howdy. I have an MSI 770 mb with an AMD sb710 south bridge chipset, what the raid is on. And its not working!

Basically, in the BIOS under 'On-chip ATA Devices' there is an option marked 'Raid Mode' from which you can select either IDE, RAID or AHCI. If you select IDE, everything is fine, but of course there is RAID functionality. If you select RAID, there is the usual create array setup options, BUT with this mode set the BIOS no longer recognises any SATA drives (although the raid setup screen does). And niether does the computer- the non-Raided SATA drive that windows is on does not load, the comp acts like it has no drives (actually, the windows loading screen appears for a second, then the comp restarts).

Basically, it seems like the onboard RAID allows for no raid, or ALL sata drives on raid, it doesnt seem to allow some on raid and some not. Surely this is not meant to be how it works. Unfortunately I cant find any manuals to help with this, both the msi and amd support is non existent when it comes to raid.

IF anyone could help me, I would be SO grateful! Its really really annoying me, especially because raid pci-e cards aren't that cheap!

Thanks!

If you installed Windows with in IDE mode, it doesn't have the needed drivers to access the hard drive in RAID mode, even if the drive isn't part of a RAID array.

You can try installing the RAID drivers, then turn on RAID in the BIOS and see if it boots, but that doesn't usually work.

If you intend to use on-board RAID, you generally need to install Windows with RAID mode turned on from the very beginning, and use the F6 option during Windows install to install the RAID drivers from a floppy. If installing vista or later, you can install the drivers from a thumb drive or optical disc as well.

 

[Nailezs]

i have to disagree completely.
if you are not using a RAID drive as your main os drive, windows drivers dont matter if the mb wont even sense the raid array, or you cant build a raid array.. but thats besides the point, as that is not his problem(not as im reaidng it)

he is saying that while in the bios, its telling him that either all drives have to be raid, or none of the drives.

pumpkin, it sounds like you are missing a setting, or just not messing with the correct raid prompt. if your board can use IDE and SATA drives, there might be RAID options for BOTH. make sure u are messing with the SATA RAID portion and not the IDE RAID. there should also be a screen where you can choose which drives will be your raid drives, and from there build your array in the RAID manager

 

[troyrae360]

windows needs the drivers, thats why its restarting

 

[Wile E]

i have to disagree completely.
if you are not using a RAID drive as your main os drive, windows drivers dont matter if the mb wont even sense the raid array, or you cant build a raid array.. but thats besides the point, as that is not his problem(not as im reaidng it)

he is saying that while in the bios, its telling him that either all drives have to be raid, or none of the drives.

pumpkin, it sounds like you are missing a setting, or just not messing with the correct raid prompt. if your board can use IDE and SATA drives, there might be RAID options for BOTH. make sure u are messing with the SATA RAID portion and not the IDE RAID. there should also be a screen where you can choose which drives will be your raid drives, and from there build your array in the RAID manager

Nope. My drives no longer show in the BIOS in RAID mode on ANY of my rigs. They only show on the controller BIOS when you enable RAID.

When you turn on RAID mode, Windows needs the RAID drivers if the Windows drive is on the controller, whether or not the drive is part of an array.

 

[troyrae360]

Nope. My drives no longer show in the BIOS in RAID mode on ANY of my rigs. They only show on the controller BIOS when you enable RAID.

When you turn on RAID mode, Windows needs the RAID drivers if the Windows drive is on the controller, whether or not the drive is part of an array.

+1
Yup, Windows really needs the Raid drivers installed, and you wont see the drives in bios becouse the raid controller hasnt loaded yet

 

[newtekie1]

+1
Yup, Windows really needs the Raid drivers installed, and you wont see the drives in bios becouse the raid controller hasnt loaded yet

+2

Windows definitely needs the RAID controller drivers.

When you change the setting from IDE to RAID, you are changing how the SATA controller is functioning. It is being changed from an IDE controller, which Windows has generic drivers for, to a SATA RAID controller, which Windows does not have generic drivers for.

This is also why the drives do not show up in the BIOS anymore, they are now controlled by the RAID controller BIOS.

All the drives can either be in IDE mode or RAID mode. You can not have some drives in RAID mode and some in IDE, motherboards don't work that way(unless they have multiple SATA controllers). However, you can have single drives, you just don't make them part of the RAID array, but you still need to load the drivers for the RAID Controller.

 

[troyrae360]

@ Pumpkin feet

You should fill in your System Specs, that will help us help you better in the future.

Also What sort of RAID are you thinking of setting up?

 

[pumpkin_feet]

I have to say, im ridiculously impressed with the response rate at this forum! To have so many replies in such a short time after my original post is quite outrageous. Thanks very much!

Anyways, yes, I think you are right about windows needing RAID drivers, even if the hd its on isnt raided. It makes sense. Also, I have discovered that while the sata drives dont appear in BIOS when raid mode is on, they DO appear in the 'boot sequence' section of the BIOS, so thats fine, clearly it doesnt matter if they appear on the bios main screen.

I do however have two more questions! First: how do I install raid drivers on my current windows, given that the many copies of the drivers ive found on the internet do not have an installer, just the raw driver files. There is no mention of raid in device manager or anything. How do I install them? Obviously, I cant turn on the RAID and wait for 'detected new hardware' because as discussed with RAID on windows wont load!

Secondly, I have a choice between x86 and x64 drivers. I do not know which one to use. Its a bit complicated, but: I have an AMD64 cpu, and Im trying to install 32-bit XP. However, I am only installing xp in order to install 64-bit windows 7 on top of it. I bought the student edition, which (annoyingly) has to be installed from a previous version of windows, even though its technically not an upgrade. Its the only reason im installing xp! Maybe when I know which of these to use, I can just try installing xp from boot using F6. I would still like to be able to put the drivers on my existing windows though- gives me two options to attack, installing windows 7 onto the raided drives from a non raided drive, or installing it onto raided drives from those same drives.

Hope that makes sense! And thanks again!

 

[CyberDruid]

You can use a utility called N lite to slipstream whatever drivers are needed into a new installation disk (which you burn using N lite). Short of that you need to have a Floppy Drive and Diskette and you will need to put the required files on the diskette and have it ready to go so that when you press F6 Windows locates and uses them to configure the installation.

XP must use a Floppy or you will need to slipstream them using the utility I mentioned.

X86 is 32 bit. Regarding a later installation of 64 bit I am not sure what all that will require or if it will work with your plan to upgrade. You'll have to try and find out.

 

[Mussels]

just to back up everyone elses claims, you really do need the drivers.


Whats happened is that when you're turning on RAID, *all* the ports are changing from IDE to RAID mode - which uses a different driver.

even if some drives are not in the RAID array, they're still connected to a RAID controller, and therefore need RAID drivers.


Windows works this way to prevent the mass piracy that occured in the windows 98 era (cloning a HDD with windows on it to many machines and selling them, as they all appeared legit)

summary: best bet is to reinstall windows in RAID mode from the start.


P.S: on AMD motherboards, the RAID and AHCI driver are one and the same (this is fairly common on other chipsets too), so installing windows in AHCI mode and swapping to RAID mode would boot succesfully, and vice versa - its just IDE mode that doesnt play nice.


P.P.S judging from Nailezs post, it seems he thought IDE hard drives were involved, and not just SATA drives in IDE compatibility mode.

 

[kid41212003]

I'm using the onboard RAID, and it doesn't require me to install the RAID driver beforehand (Windows Vista).

When I turn on RAID in bios, all the SATA drives won't display (It's normal), because all of them became one.
Save bios -> Restart -> Press "xxx" (depend on your mobos) key when asked to create an RAID Array -> Boot from Windows DVD -> Start installing Windows -> Install chipset driver that included RAID from the mobo cd -> Done.

All the drives did not show up in Bios, I believe this is a normal thing. And there's only 1 drive in Device Manager (RAID drive).

Maybe AMD's RAID is different, but mine (Intel) worked flawlessly using the method above.

 

[Mussels]

I'm using the onboard RAID, and it doesn't require me to install the RAID driver beforehand (Windows Vista).

When I turn on RAID in bios, all the SATA drives won't display (It's normal), because all of them became one.
Save bios -> Restart -> Press "xxx" (depend on your mobos) key when asked to create an RAID Array -> Boot from Windows DVD -> Start installing Windows -> Install chipset driver that included RAID from the mobo cd -> Done.

All the drives did not show up in Bios, I believe this is a normal thing. And there's only 1 drive in Device Manager (RAID drive).

Maybe AMD's RAID is different, but mine (Intel) worked flawlessly using the method above.

Two things make your comparison different.

1. Intel vs AMD - they do use different drivers, 770 is new enough it may not be included in windows 7's default drivers.

2. you installed in RAID - he installed in IDE, and then tried changing to RAID

 

[robal]

Switching from IDE/AHCI to RAID is a big deal.

You can't have some drives in RAID and some not in RAID.
You can achieve your goal by creating proper arrays,
eg: 1st array with 1 drive in it (if you want this drive to be separate)
and 2nd array with 2 drives in it (if you want second 'drive' to be a raid array of two physical drives)

Also, Windows WILL need drivers if it was installed in IDE mode.
My personal experience is that it's better to do a clean install on new arrays.
I had many problems getting Windows stable after switching from IDE to AHCI or RAID.

Cheers

 

[newtekie1]

I have to say, im ridiculously impressed with the response rate at this forum! To have so many replies in such a short time after my original post is quite outrageous. Thanks very much!

Anyways, yes, I think you are right about windows needing RAID drivers, even if the hd its on isnt raided. It makes sense. Also, I have discovered that while the sata drives dont appear in BIOS when raid mode is on, they DO appear in the 'boot sequence' section of the BIOS, so thats fine, clearly it doesnt matter if they appear on the bios main screen.

I do however have two more questions! First: how do I install raid drivers on my current windows, given that the many copies of the drivers ive found on the internet do not have an installer, just the raw driver files. There is no mention of raid in device manager or anything. How do I install them? Obviously, I cant turn on the RAID and wait for 'detected new hardware' because as discussed with RAID on windows wont load!

Secondly, I have a choice between x86 and x64 drivers. I do not know which one to use. Its a bit complicated, but: I have an AMD64 cpu, and Im trying to install 32-bit XP. However, I am only installing xp in order to install 64-bit windows 7 on top of it. I bought the student edition, which (annoyingly) has to be installed from a previous version of windows, even though its technically not an upgrade. Its the only reason im installing xp! Maybe when I know which of these to use, I can just try installing xp from boot using F6. I would still like to be able to put the drivers on my existing windows though- gives me two options to attack, installing windows 7 onto the raided drives from a non raided drive, or installing it onto raided drives from those same drives.

Hope that makes sense! And thanks again!

Ok...this is complicated. Lets try and make it a little easier.

First of all, get rid of XP, you don't need it. The student edition of Win7 is essentially the upgrade edition, at least yours seems to be. So, while it might seem like you need a previous version to Windows, you really don't.

First, boot to the Win7 Upgrade DVD, and do a trial install without putting in a key. Then run the DVD from inside that trial install, and upgrade from that. I know it sounds odd, but this really works, and is actually legal and supported by Microsoft. This eliminates Windows XP from the problem, and makes everything a lot less complicated.

Now, you just install the 64-bit version from the beginning, and you can just use the 64-bit drivers. Stick them on a USB flash drive, and Win7's install will be able to read them(unlike XP, which requires a floppy). You might not even need to do this, as Win7 seems to be really good about having RAID drivers for onboard RAID controllers built in. I believe SB710 has been out long enough that Microsoft might have included the driver in Win7. If not though, it is easy to just stick the driver files on a USB flash drive and have Win7 load them.

 

[Nailezs]

i must seriously be reading something wrong lol.. im no stranger to raid arrays and have built a few from scratch, and have ever encountered anything like what you guys are describing.

 

[Jstn7477]

Two things make your comparison different.

1. Intel vs AMD - they do use different drivers, 770 is new enough it may not be included in windows 7's default drivers.

2. you installed in RAID - he installed in IDE, and then tried changing to RAID

+1. Windows 7 didn't have RAID drivers for my 790FX/SB750. I first went into the RAID BIOS and set up my array. I found the basic AMD RAID driver on the internet with my laptop (3 files), extracted and burnt the files to CD, and then when Windows 7 was installing, I clicked "Load Drivers" on the select hard disk screen, browsed the CD, and selected the .INF for the controller. Windows found the drivers and recognized the drives on the RAID controller. I could do this with my SATA CD-ROM because I had it on SATA Port 5 (AMD chipsets let you make 1-4 RAID while leaving 5 + ESATA as IDE).

 

[Zubasa]

Two things make your comparison different.

1. Intel vs AMD - they do use different drivers, 770 is new enough it may not be included in windows 7's default drivers.

2. you installed in RAID - he installed in IDE, and then tried changing to RAID

Win 7 RTM/Retail do not need any RAID drivers for SB710.
They are included in the disc.
Anyways, you need to boot into the installation disc in RAID mode with an Array present for the Windows disc to install the drivers.
IF windows does not detect the array then install the drivers.
First hand experience.

 

[Jstn7477]

Win 7 RTM/Retail do not need any RAID drivers for SB710.
They are included in the disc.
Anyways, you need to boot into the installation disc in RAID mode with an Array present for the Windows disc to install the drivers.
IF windows does not detect the array then install the drivers.
First hand experience.

Hmm, why couldn't Windows find drivers for my SB750? I have the RTM from my Microsoft Action Pack subscription.

 

[Zubasa]

Hmm, why couldn't Windows find drivers for my SB750? I have the RTM from my Microsoft Action Pack subscription.

I don't know maybe the SB750 has RAID 5,
and the SB710 uses the same drivers as the SB700?
Might be Windows detects the SB710 (which is SB700+ACC) as a SB700 and installed the drivers.

 

[pumpkin_feet]

Thanks very much y'all!

Especially to newtekie1... your idea made a lot of sense. Win 7 came as a download, but could still be put on a bootable dvd which I didnt think was possible (it wasnt downloaded as an ISO). So im now running win 7 with the x64 raid drivers installed. Hooray!