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PCI Express SSD Not Detected on First (Cold) Boot

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#1
I recently purchased a used Mushkin Scorpion 1.92TB PCIe x8 Solid State Drive (MKNP44SC1920GB-DX). Unlike most new SSDs, it actually plugs directly into the PCI Express slot rather than the m.2 or SATA port. I seem to be having a bit of a cold start/first boot problem where by the PC fails to properly detect it on the first boot. What happens is that only three of the four memory chips (it is effectively 4 chips of about 450GB each in a RAID config) that make the 1.92TB is detected and the 4th one shows as “missing” in the configuration utility (like a PCIE IDE/SATA expansion board it has its own BIOS that displays before the main motherboard one). When this happens it flat out won’t boot or be detected by anything no matter how many times I reboot or how long I leave it on.

If I power off (restart/reset doesn’t work) the PC with the power button and then power back on it will consistently work and I have been able to install Windows 10 on it and some games and apps no problem, so I think (hope) the drive is technically ok, but just perhaps isn’t getting enough time to initialise itself properly when the PC is first powered on.

Also, it is worth adding that once up and running, the PC can be restarted no problem and will consistently boot each time. It is only if the PC has been off for more than a few hours that the problem will occur again. I suppose I could leave the PC on but as this is used as a HTPC it isn’t always in use so I prefer to leave it off when I don’t need it.

I would like to health check the drive to ensure that the problem isn’t related to wear and tear e.g. on the memory chip that is sometimes missing, but no utilities (I have tried Crystal Disk and SSD Life) seem to even be able to detect it, presumably because they are looking on the SATA and M.2 ports rather than PCI Express socket. Is there any free tester utility that can detect PCI Express drives?

Lastly, is there anything I may be able to do to solve the problem. I know I could (and maybe should) return it but I got it cheap and would rather keep it if I can make it behave as it is a really fast drive when running. Are there any settings I could adjust on the motherboard (Gigabyte AB350 Gaming) that might make the PC wait a bit longer on start up to improve the odds of it detecting the SSD first time round?
 
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#2
have you tried disabling quick boot if its available in the bios?
It may be named something else like "perform full test"
 

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#4
Sorry, forgot the specs:
Gigabyte AB350 Gaming (AM4) Motherboard
AMD Ryzen 2600 AM4 Hex Core CPU
32GB DDR4 (4x8GB) (Crucial Ballistix BLS2K4G4D240FSE)
Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX980TI 6GB GDDR5 GPU
Bluray Drive
Coolermaster Full Tower ATX Case (forget the name)
Corsair CX850M Modular PSU
The SSD itself: Mushkin Scorpion 1.92TB PCIe x8 Solid State Drive (MKNP44SC1920GB-DX) (currently running without any other HDDs or SSDs to eliminate them as potential causes)

Running Windows 10 Professional (Latest Version)
 

eidairaman1

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#6
Are there any firmware updates for that drive?

Have you set boot priority for it to detect that drive first?

Have you attempted to set a post delay in the Bios?

Did you do a secure erase on that drive before you started using it?

Is there any tuning software for that drive from Mushkin?

You may want to inspect the edge pins on drive, give them a good cleaning, perhaps good of a good dusting out of the PCI Express slot too
 
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#7
Same drive everytime? May be a bad drive in the array...
Yes, it's arranged as four chips (drives) and it's always the 4th (last) one.

Are there any firmware updates for that drive?

Have you set boot priority for it to detect that drive first?

Have you attempted to set a post delay in the Bios?

Did you do a secure erase on that drive before you started using it?

Is there any tuning software for that drive from Mushkin?

You may want to inspect the edge pins on drive, give them a good cleaning, perhaps good of a good dusting out of the PCI Express slot too
No, I cannot find any tuning software or firmware updates for it, for what was a seriously premium product in it's day, the mushkin website seems seriously lacking tbh. The only thing I can find relating to it is this page: http://www.poweredbymushkin.com/Hom...on-deluxe-pcie-ssd/840-scorpion-deluxe-1920gb and the only software at all is a driver, which isn't even available for Windows 10! (Windows 8.1 is the newest OS listed). I could try and install the 8.1 driver in Windows 10, but I don't really see how it would help as the problem occurs long before it even gets to Windows to load any drivers and when I'm in Windows it seems to run just fine on whatever driver Windows 10 sticks on by default so I'm reluctant to mess about with the driver.

I didn't do a secure erase but it arrived with me with no (readable) data on it and the space all unallocated (no partitions) like a new drive comes, so I assume the seller must have erased it?

Yes, I will try re-seating it. It all looked fine as far as I remember though. Only other slightly odd thing I thought when installing it is that it uses a SATA power socket for it's power when it could surely just use the PCIE like other add in boards. I connected it anyway but used a molex to SATA as I didn't have any native SATA plugs at the bottom of the case near the card. Still if it wasn't getting power I don't think it would come on at all?
 

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#8
Yes, it's arranged as four chips (drives) and it's always the 4th (last) one.



No, I cannot find any tuning software or firmware updates for it, for what was a seriously premium product in it's day, the mushkin website seems seriously lacking tbh. The only thing I can find relating to it is this page: http://www.poweredbymushkin.com/Hom...on-deluxe-pcie-ssd/840-scorpion-deluxe-1920gb and the only software at all is a driver, which isn't even available for Windows 10! (Windows 8.1 is the newest OS listed). I could try and install the 8.1 driver in Windows 10, but I don't really see how it would help as the problem occurs long before it even gets to Windows to load any drivers and when I'm in Windows it seems to run just fine on whatever driver Windows 10 sticks on by default so I'm reluctant to mess about with the driver.

I didn't do a secure erase but it arrived with me with no (readable) data on it and the space all unallocated (no partitions) like a new drive comes, so I assume the seller must have erased it?

Yes, I will try re-seating it. It all looked fine as far as I remember though. Only other slightly odd thing I thought when installing it is that it uses a SATA power socket for it's power when it could surely just use the PCIE like other add in boards. I connected it anyway but used a molex to SATA as I didn't have any native SATA plugs at the bottom of the case near the card. Still if it wasn't getting power I don't think it would come on at all?
Make sure that no wires are bent at an angle or kinked

To me it sounds like the controller on the card is acting up along with whay @EarthDog said above.
 
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#9
have you tried disabling quick boot if its available in the bios?
It may be named something else like "perform full test"
I just checked and "fast boot" is disabled.

There was one setting I was wondering about though called "Other PCI Device ROM Priority" which is set to UEFI only, it can also be set to legacy or disabled.

Now could it be that having it set to UEFI is causing some kind of issue as the Scorpion Deluxe dates back to 2013 (according to it's BIOS), so predates the whole UEFI thing and would therefore be a "legacy" device? So should I try changing it to "legacy" instead?
 
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#10
that is probably more related to gpus with uefi bioses for secure boot..
you can try it though.
 
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#11
Thanks for all the advice so far. :)

Is there anything else I can try?
 
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#13
I'm curious if the CX850M isn't providing 5v when the PC is shutdown, or it isn't providing enough juice at startup.
 
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#14
I'm curious if the CX850M isn't providing 5v when the PC is shutdown, or it isn't providing enough juice at startup.
Any way to check this? Technically there should be more than enough power I would have thought as I used to power this system (minus the SSD as that was a recent addition) on a BeQuiet 530 Watt but upgraded to the Corsair CX850M as the GPU (G1 Gaming 980TI) is quite heavily factory overclocked over the reference 980TI and was just too much for the old PSU.

Finding decent information about this SSD online is virtually impossible. I imagine the launch price was astronomical and virtually no one bought one. There are some interesting reviews of it on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-Enha...show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

Apparently, it was about the fastest SSD in the world when it came out :peace: and is very hot (up to 80C they see :eek: ) and power hungry...
 
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#15
Any way to check this?
Another PSU if you have one... my only suggestion. Yea, I wasn't implying the CX850M was underpowered. Newer PC's and MBs allow USB charging to stay on even when the computer has been turned off. https://www.pcworld.com/article/304...g-your-usb-devices-past-your-pcs-bedtime.html

And there are different "off states" if I recall correctly. Your SSD may need phantom power when you shut the PC off and it's not getting it? What you describe sounds like the SSD discharging after being off for a while.
 
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#16
Another PSU if you have one... my only suggestion. Yea, I wasn't implying the CX850M was underpowered. Newer PC's and MBs allow USB charging to stay on even when the computer has been turned off. https://www.pcworld.com/article/304...g-your-usb-devices-past-your-pcs-bedtime.html

And there are different "off states" if I recall correctly. Your SSD may need phantom power when you shut the PC off and it's not getting it? What you describe sounds like the SSD discharging after being off for a while.
Ah I see, well it definitely wouldn't be getting any 'phantom' power as I actually turn off the PC at the mains when not in use as it shares a surge protected power strip with my TV and other AV kit (its used as a games and HTPC in the living room) so I prefer everything fully off when I'm not using it for a while. However, I might try putting the PC on a separate socket and not turning it off at the mains see if it makes any difference...
 
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#17
Ah I see, well it definitely wouldn't be getting any 'phantom' power as I actually turn off the PC at the mains when not in use as it shares a surge protected power strip with my TV and other AV kit (its used as a games and HTPC in the living room) so I prefer everything fully off when I'm not using it for a while. However, I might try putting the PC on a separate socket and not turning it off at the mains see if it makes any difference...
Funny I was going to ask if you did a complete power-off, so that may be it. Your suggestion is the best way to test that theory.
 
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#18
wait..
your bios remembers its settings after a full shut down (mains off like you said you do )right?
 
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#19
wait..
your bios remembers its settings after a full shut down (mains off like you said you do )right?
Yes, I'd be rather concerned if it didn't, as I've only had it a few months from new.

I know the battery can die on very old boards and make them forget the settings.
 
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#21
Did you confirm that drive is good? Try removing it and testing it alone or see if the array has any issues with it not in there. Or, swap ports and see if the issue follows the drive.
Apologies if I misunderstood but it sounds like you think I am running a raid array of separate SATA drives (I'm not). The drive is a single PCI Express card with 4 separate memory chips in a raid 0 array as reported by it's BIOS, but the 'drives' are sealed away inside the PCI express card behind the shroud, I have no way of physically getting at them (well theoretically I could but it's not really meant to be opened and not willing to risk damaging it by opening it up).

I can't try it in a different PCIE slot unfortunately as the board only has two PCIE slots and I have to use a graphics card at all times as my CPU has no onboard GPU...
 
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#22
I thought that AIC had four m.2 modules on it... is that not correct?

Regardless, I wouldn't open it either if it is in warranty. If not...what would you have to lose?

The only way to test and see if it is the drive or your system is to test it in another machine. If the problem follows you know it's the unit itself.


Edit: its exactly as I said...4 m.2 drives on an AIC.

Mushkin-Scorpion-Deluxe-PCIe-SSD-Package-Disassembled.jpg
 
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#23
I thought that AIC had four m.2 modules on it... is that not correct?

Regardless, I wouldn't open it either if it is in warranty. If not...what would you have to lose?

The only way to test and see if it is the drive or your system is to test it in another machine.


Edit: its exactly as I said...

View attachment 116225
Interesting. I knew it had four separate sticks in there I just didn't know if they were fully compliant with the m.2 standard, I thought they were some kind of custom interface specifically made for the card. Thanks for the info as that is really good to know as if the problem worsens and the card fails to boot at all I would at least have the option of using them as separate m.2 drives...
 
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System Name My HTPC Games Build
Processor Ryzen 5 2600 Hex Core 12 Thread CPU
Motherboard ASUS AB350 Gaming Socket AM4
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED Turbo
Memory 32GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4 2400MHZ (4x8GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte G1 Gaming 980TI 6GB
Storage Mushkin Scorpion Deluxe 1.92TB PCIE SSD, ADATA SU800 256GB SSD M.2 (SATA MODE)
Display(s) Digihome 55" UHD TV via Yamaha RV-V377 Receiver
Case Cooler Master Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Motherboard/GPU (No Sound Card)
Power Supply Corsair CX850M 850 Watt
Mouse Logitech K400
Keyboard Logitech K400
Software Windows 10 Professional
#25
Im confused... are you giving up testing this thing? I gave multiple other ways to iso test and find out the bad part....

... its weird you ask for more, get more, and then dismiss it until things get worse?
Huh, I didn't mean to offend :confused: I'm grateful for the info and filing it away for later in case of a worst case scenario, but want to start with the basics first and work up to the more advanced stuff only if it proves necessary. I am going to follow the advice given, but can only try one thing at a time and going to start with the easiest simplest things first so next will try leaving the power to the PC active as Sasqui mentioned as if it is something that simple I don't want to be getting into anything else but happy to have the info there in case it proves necessary...
 
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