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Wing

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Evening everyone! Just built a new computer in the past few days. Been enjoying my first foray into the AMD space in almost two decades. I attached an image of my best bench-to-date at 7284. I'm using a Noctua NH-D15 air cooler. The 140 mm fan that comes with the with the cooler is located in the center slot. To accommodate my RAM, I replaced the second fan with an NF-A12X25.

Also, I noticed some discussion above regarding the vcore of the Ryzen 9. I actually did a sweep of offset voltages and compared to a set override of 1.35V. All of those benchmarks were performed on fresh reboots with multiple tests taken at each point. The interesting finding here is that there is an ideal negative offset (and that the override led to a pretty substantial drop in performance in my case). I had one of my friends, who also has a 3900X, perform this voltage test, and he found the same thing. Might be worth scanning if you're looking for more oomph. That being said, I have to add some caution about the -0.15V offset. My friend's machine did not like this setting at all (with our guess being voltage-at-idle being problematic). Anyway! Take care.
 

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Ryzen 7 3700x. All core 4.3, 1.31V. I dont want to push higher than voltage 1.31V. View attachment 133387
Sorry to say it, 4.3Ghz looks good on paper but actually you are getting lower CB R20 score then me running just PBO. With PBO my 3700x gets on average an all core boost of 4,15Ghz which gets me over 5000pts. You will need more then 1.31v voltage for 4,3Ghz to really get the results 4,3Ghz should give. And I doubt your OC is really stable.
Try to watch this video on 3700X:
 
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speedgoat

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Sorry to say it, 4.3Ghz looks good on paper but actually you are getting lower CB R20 score then me running just PBO. With PBO my 3700x gets on average an all core boost of 4,15Ghz which gets me over 5000pts. You will need more then 1.31v voltage for 4,3Ghz to really get the results 4,3Ghz should give. And I doubt your OC is really stable.
Try to watch this video on 3700X:
there is so much randomness with binning and mobo performance its really frustrating, my 3800X not only its 100% stable on -0.1V offset and even -0.125 and possibly a little more unlike the video but it even produces the best CB15-20 scores stock at roughly -0.1 cause i get to run it at around 4.2+ GHz
 

cowboy44mag

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yes. But CPU the one, who requesting voltage from mobo. Better mobo can provide closer voltage to what CPU is asking.

because those guys usually set high voltage, OC CPU, run benches, show screenshots and then never use their CPUs, just browsing or gaming, where very low load on CPU.

me too

im using just normal water and VRM temps at some 50C under load

at rest it 1.4-1.5V! I have never seen 0.5V. 0.8-0.9V is lowest i have seen, when killed most of software running. Close to any load makes CPU to work in boost mode with crazy voltage.

in fixed voltage mode my CPU temps is under 70C during cb20 run. At rest etc it's some 30-40 usually. When in auto it's 45-70 at rest and 70-85 under load.

and this is total bullsh!t. Even speedgoat just proved it here with 4.475@1.38V all cores, not 1.5V for the same clock on only one core. Same i had on 1700, which did one core boost to 3750MHz on 1.44V or something like this. I set 1.2V fixed and 3.8GHz all cores - it worked fine with lower temps and much more performance. Another proof is that all their CPUs of same model requesting same voltage, when all of them have different quality. So auto voltages just broken mess. Also for different mobos requesting voltage should be different too. For example when CPU requesting 1.42V on weak mobo under load this voltage will drop to say 1.27V actual, but on strong mobo it will drop just to 1.4V actual in same conditions. Ofc CPU have own voltage regulator inside, but who know how it works with what limits.
And their 1.4-1.5v is not for fraction of a second, but constant. I degraded CPU when ran avx2 test in auto for day (b4 did 98-100% load of CPU for many hours) and voltage never dropped below 1.39V... under full load of 12 cores. With crazy temps also.
By setting fix voltage on 3900x i got less power consumption, lower average and lower max voltage, lower temps and more performance (actual clocks with lower voltage is higher under load, cuz CPU not throttle much). Also im afraid of doing any good load on CPU in auto anymore, because it can fry my CPU.
Ofc max voltage limit would be much better, but there is just no such a option :(
Tried with offsets, but in my case negative offset just gives lower clocks with about the same voltages :(

that's what I waiting for now
and this is total bullsh!t. Even speedgoat just proved it here with 4.475@1.38V all cores, not 1.5V for the same clock on only one core. Same i had on 1700, which did one core boost to 3750MHz on 1.44V or something like this. I set 1.2V fixed and 3.8GHz all cores - it worked fine with lower temps and much more performance. Another proof is that all their CPUs of same model requesting same voltage, when all of them have different quality. So auto voltages just broken mess. Also for different mobos requesting voltage should be different too. For example when CPU requesting 1.42V on weak mobo under load this voltage will drop to say 1.27V actual, but on strong mobo it will drop just to 1.4V actual in same conditions. Ofc CPU have own voltage regulator inside, but who know how it works with what limits.
And their 1.4-1.5v is not for fraction of a second, but constant. I degraded CPU when ran avx2 test in auto for day (b4 did 98-100% load of CPU for many hours) and voltage never dropped below 1.39V... under full load of 12 cores. With crazy temps also.
By setting fix voltage on 3900x i got less power consumption, lower average and lower max voltage, lower temps and more performance (actual clocks with lower voltage is higher under load, cuz CPU not throttle much). Also im afraid of doing any good load on CPU in auto anymore, because it can fry my CPU.
Ofc max voltage limit would be much better, but there is just no such a option :(
Tried with offsets, but in my case negative offset just gives lower clocks with about the same voltages :(



First off, I agree with you that AMD's official Ryzen is operating correctly at auto with spikes up to 1.5V thing is total bullsh!t. Its why I have never allowed my processor to run on "Auto" voltage and after finding what voltage I required for 4.4Ghz I then set an offset. Under full load my processor won't go past 1.373V with my offset.

at rest it 1.4-1.5V! I have never seen 0.5V. 0.8-0.9V is lowest i have seen, when killed most of software running. Close to any load makes CPU to work in boost mode with crazy voltage.

My processor will enter a "resting" state of ~0.5V. I constantly monitor my temp and voltages when testing and it is a constant effect that can be measured both in CPU-Z, HWmonitor, and hwinfo60. I'm attaching a screenshot of all 3 monitoring apps running at the same time. As you will see CPU-Z shows an active ~0.5V, and HWmonitor and hwinfo64 both show the low Vcore to be the same ~0.5V. Keep in mind that the more monitoring apps running at once the more the system is "ramping up" as it registers it as a request for higher performance, so getting all them to report the same is not easy.

im using just normal water and VRM temps at some 50C under load
in fixed voltage mode my CPU temps is under 70C during cb20 run. At rest etc it's some 30-40 usually. When in auto it's 45-70 at rest and 70-85 under load.


My VRM temps have never exceeded 45C (while running very large rendering project, they are usually under 40C) under full load, my CPU temps under full load are below 70C. Resting state the CPU and all motherboard temps are below 30C (as seen in the screenshot) and RAM temp is below 25C. I'll also include a screen shot of my system after 3 back to back Cinebench R20 runs for temp. As you can see under full load all motherboard sensors report under 40C (highest is actually 37C) and the RAM under full load registers 25.8C on the hottest dimm. I like to monitor all the temps possible throughout the entire system, if anything is running hot it could have a negative impact on performance and overall longevity.

Like I said before you can degrade a CPU or any other component for that matter even when being careful, but keeping all temps well under control is a really good first step to ensure long lasting performance. So far I have overclocked every system I have ever owned and have never experienced hardware degradation of any kind, but I have always made sure all the components have adequate cooling (not just the CPU or VRMs but absolutely every component).

Just overclocked my RAM a little more, still have to thoroughly test it, but now running 3733Mhz ~CL14.

133406
 

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cowboy44mag

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That is an awesome score, but your Vcore is way past even what I am comfortable going to. Are you on PBO? What settings did you use to get the all core that high? I would estimate you are doing at least 4.45Ghz all core, maybe 4.475... I don't think I'll try pumping that much voltage, but can you share your overclocking method. I would really love to be able to run my processor at its current 4.4Ghz overclock with PBO (instead of multiplier overclocking), and it looks like you may have found the key of getting it to boost properly.

EDIT
I just realized I made a mistake, I thought your CB score was higher than it was. Your score is totally inline with normal auto boosting operation.
 
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That is an awesome score, but your Vcore is way past even what I am comfortable going to. Are you on PBO? What settings did you use to get the all core that high? I would estimate you are doing at least 4.45Ghz all core, maybe 4.475... I don't think I'll try pumping that much voltage, but can you share your overclocking method. I would really love to be able to run my processor at its current 4.4Ghz overclock with PBO (instead of multiplier overclocking), and it looks like you may have found the key of getting it to boost properly.
Are you being sarcastic? 3700x auto voltage no PBO is around 4700pts, in the CPU-Z screenshot you can see a multiplier of 28,6 so I think that is just a random voltage after the test was already over.
 

cowboy44mag

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Are you being sarcastic? 3700x auto voltage no PBO is around 4700pts, in the CPU-Z screenshot you can see a multiplier of 28,6 so I think that is just a random voltage after the test was already over.
You know, that is totally my bad... I pulled a couple of all nighters to get a couple systems I'm building for people ready (was really excited to get the extra business as I usually don't get the chance to build systems in my area- with the exception of my own). During the day I've been working the fields all day getting the soy in (next comes feed corn) and for some reason I thought the Cinebench score was 5458, not 4458... It was totally my mistake, I need more sleep. I just got excited that someone may have figured out the secret to unlocking PBO in this generation to make it as effective as it was with Ryzen+.
 
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That is an awesome score, but your Vcore is way past even what I am comfortable going to. Are you on PBO? What settings did you use to get the all core that high? I would estimate you are doing at least 4.45Ghz all core, maybe 4.475... I don't think I'll try pumping that much voltage, but can you share your overclocking method. I would really love to be able to run my processor at its current 4.4Ghz overclock with PBO (instead of multiplier overclocking), and it looks like you may have found the key of getting it to boost properly.

EDIT
I just realized I made a mistake, I thought your CB score was higher than it was. Your score is totally inline with normal auto boosting operation.
All stock with MSI X370
 

Wing

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there is so much randomness with binning and mobo performance its really frustrating, my 3800X not only its 100% stable on -0.1V offset and even -0.125 and possibly a little more unlike the video but it even produces the best CB15-20 scores stock at roughly -0.1 cause i get to run it at around 4.2+ GHz
I see a similar thing with my offsets. I posted a plot a few posts up with my r20 tests at various voltages.
 
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133650


use my pc mainly for gaming...
 
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cowboy44mag

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managed to pass 5400 on CB 20 possibly because of 3800C15 on ABBA

4450 MHz at 1.33V

View attachment 132904

I was just looking over past posts, and I have to ask you, how are you overclocking? Are you using PBO? I just noticed that Cinebench is registering your speed at 3.9Ghz, so I would assume that you are using PBO. If so what settings did you use to achieve your overclock? I used PBO all the time with Ryzen+ however with Ryzen 3000 the best I've ever managed to get with PBO is 4.35Ghz all core with all of PBO settings (PPT, TDC, and EDC set to 1000) and the boost override at 200Mhz. I've always wanted to use PBO with Ryzen 3000 but just can't seem to get the performance out of it. I've been running with a multiplier overclock and voltage offset this whole time, but would much rather use PBO if I can get the same or better performance.
 

speedgoat

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I was just looking over past posts, and I have to ask you, how are you overclocking? Are you using PBO? I just noticed that Cinebench is registering your speed at 3.9Ghz, so I would assume that you are using PBO. If so what settings did you use to achieve your overclock? I used PBO all the time with Ryzen+ however with Ryzen 3000 the best I've ever managed to get with PBO is 4.35Ghz all core with all of PBO settings (PPT, TDC, and EDC set to 1000) and the boost override at 200Mhz. I've always wanted to use PBO with Ryzen 3000 but just can't seem to get the performance out of it. I've been running with a multiplier overclock and voltage offset this whole time, but would much rather use PBO if I can get the same or better performance.

i am under the impression that when you see the frequency registering as default there it means the OC was applied from Master Ryzen and not the bios which that was the case on this run. If you lock it in the bios then CB also displays it.

yeah i used PBO in this run but probably it was pointless to use it, it maybe it just raised temps and i ll try later without it. On everyday it works slightly better for me if i sort of give it alot of headroom to push with a negative offset but even then it does not work amazingly.
 

cowboy44mag

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i am under the impression that when you see the frequency registering as default there it means the OC was applied from Master Ryzen and not the bios which that was the case on this run. If you lock it in the bios then CB also displays it.

yeah i used PBO in this run but probably it was pointless to use it, it maybe it just raised temps and i ll try later without it. On everyday it works slightly better for me if i sort of give it alot of headroom to push with a negative offset but even then it does not work amazingly.
My everyday overclock results in a "true" 4.4Ghz all core overclock locked in by bios, I can then "tweak" it with Ryzen Master (CCX overclocking), but its not necessary. I have it overclocked via multiplier and offset in bios, Ryzen Master is not needed for my 4.4Ghz overclock and it registers as 4.4Ghz no matter what benchmark I'm running, whereas PBO will always display 3.9Ghz. At least with my motherboard.

I've been trying to get PBO to work better, but haven't tried to lower the offset by a significant amount, may try that and see what happens. For some reason thus far with PBO I can only get a max all core of 4.35Ghz, more normally 4.3Ghz but haven't been able to get it to boost past that. It could be that with PBO it needs more headroom than I've been giving it. That would basically mean that for manual multiplier overclocking the processor needs a little more voltage, but to optimize PBO it needs an offset with less voltage to provide higher headroom. I may have been applying the wrong logic to make PBO work better.
 

speedgoat

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My everyday overclock results in a "true" 4.4Ghz all core overclock locked in by bios, I can then "tweak" it with Ryzen Master (CCX overclocking), but its not necessary. I have it overclocked via multiplier and offset in bios, Ryzen Master is not needed for my 4.4Ghz overclock and it registers as 4.4Ghz no matter what benchmark I'm running, whereas PBO will always display 3.9Ghz. At least with my motherboard.

I've been trying to get PBO to work better, but haven't tried to lower the offset by a significant amount, may try that and see what happens. For some reason thus far with PBO I can only get a max all core of 4.35Ghz, more normally 4.3Ghz but haven't been able to get it to boost past that. It could be that with PBO it needs more headroom than I've been giving it. That would basically mean that for manual multiplier overclocking the processor needs a little more voltage, but to optimize PBO it needs an offset with less voltage to provide higher headroom. I may have been applying the wrong logic to make PBO work better.

thats me 24/7 -0.125V +PBO 200 scalar 2, could have maybe done a little better decreasing the offset but at the same time i d rather have all fans and the pump in silent even if i lose something off performance. i think it runs MC at 4200ish and SC at 4475ish

I have tried your method of locked multiplier with offset... i couldn't boot at all, i ll have a second go at some point, i think this is going to be great if i manage to get it working


133705
 

cowboy44mag

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thats me 24/7 -0.125V +PBO 200 scalar 2, could have maybe done a little better decreasing the offset but at the same time i d rather have all fans and the pump in silent even if i lose something off performance. i think it runs MC at 4200ish and SC at 4475ish

I have tried your method of locked multiplier with offset... i couldn't boot at all, i ll have a second go at some point, i think this is going to be great if i manage to get it working


View attachment 133705
Maybe that's my issue, when trying PBO I have a good negative offset (which actually still seems to use more voltage than my positive offset I have when setting my manual multiplier overclock) but I have the scalar set at 10X. So far I have been running my everyday config with my manual overclock- BCLK 100, CPU Core Ratio 44.00, positive offset 0.28750. When under full load my voltage measured by the CPU (CPU core voltage) is 1.337V and on the motherboard sensor its 1.373V (with the offset I think the motherboard's VDDCR CPU is more accurate). Voltage measured at rest CPU core voltage will measure 1.387V and the motherboard's VDDCR CPU sensor measures 0.469V. With PBO my voltages are all over the place, but under load I am seeing 1.31V but can't get a boost greater than 4.3Ghz on average.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure what is "healthier" for the processor to be running for 24/7 settings. Outside of benchmarks I'm fine with 4.2 - 4.3Ghz all core PBO boost, however I am also seeing voltages that spike up to 1.44V and have noticed voltages that remain at 1.4V for an unsettling amount of time even though there isn't really any stress being put on the processor. At least with my manual overclock I'm seeing a "high" of 1.387V on the CPU sensor (CPU core voltage) and 1.373V on the motherboard (VDDCR CPU) sensor, both of which are lower than the 1.4V I see under PBO for several minutes at a time even when the processor should be at rest.

Maybe my issue is I've been setting the PBO scalar to 10X. It's also possible that my motherboard is limiting the PBO performance that I am able to obtain, my Strix board don't have as many bios options and doesn't have as good of VRMs as the X470 Hero.

I've also noticed with my manual 24/7 overclock that according to Ryzen Master the cores still enter "sleep" and even though the two CCX are set for 4400Mhz the actual cores when at rest are either "sleep" or under 500Mhz. With the bios voltage offset I'm using Ryzen Master doesn't show the correct Vcore, it stays at 1.099V all the time.

133712
 
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speedgoat

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Maybe that's my issue, when trying PBO I have a good negative offset (which actually still seems to use more voltage than my positive offset I have when setting my manual multiplier overclock) but I have the scalar set at 10X. So far I have been running my everyday config with my manual overclock- BCLK 100, CPU Core Ratio 44.00, positive offset 0.28750. When under full load my voltage measured by the CPU (CPU core voltage) is 1.337V and on the motherboard sensor its 1.373V (with the offset I think the motherboard's VDDCR CPU is more accurate). Voltage measured at rest CPU core voltage will measure 1.387V and the motherboard's VDDCR CPU sensor measures 0.469V. With PBO my voltages are all over the place, but under load I am seeing 1.31V but can't get a boost greater than 4.3Ghz on average.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure what is "healthier" for the processor to be running for 24/7 settings. Outside of benchmarks I'm fine with 4.2 - 4.3Ghz all core PBO boost, however I am also seeing voltages that spike up to 1.44V and have noticed voltages that remain at 1.4V for an unsettling amount of time even though there isn't really any stress being put on the processor. At least with my manual overclock I'm seeing a "high" of 1.387V on the CPU sensor (CPU core voltage) and 1.373V on the motherboard (VDDCR CPU) sensor, both of which are lower than the 1.4V I see under PBO for several minutes at a time even when the processor should be at rest.

Maybe my issue is I've been setting the PBO scalar to 10X. It's also possible that my motherboard is limiting the PBO performance that I am able to obtain, my Strix board don't have as many bios options and doesn't have as good of VRMs as the X470 Hero.
to be honest i haven't really tested scalar much but i had a quick test and i was getting worse results in higher scalar, maybe due to temps, CB at least, so i ended up leaving it at the lowest.
The other thing that concerns me a bit is with all the scalar settings and the Pbo in general i m a little worried because im constantly running LLC extreme so i dunno, i wonder if given that ryzen boots really fast perhaps adding the extra dimension of the PBO on the boot issue perhaps the mobo will not cope with it eventually, like i supposedly have some of the best possible VRMs in C7H and reliable LLC but maybe things are happening way faster now.
 

cowboy44mag

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to be honest i haven't really tested scalar much but i had a quick test and i was getting worse results in higher scalar, maybe due to temps, CB at least, so i ended up leaving it at the lowest.
The other thing that concerns me a bit is with all the scalar settings and the Pbo in general i m a little worried because im constantly running LLC extreme so i dunno, i wonder if given that ryzen boots really fast perhaps adding the extra dimension of the PBO on the boot issue perhaps the mobo will not cope with it eventually, like i supposedly have some of the best possible VRMs in C7H and reliable LLC but maybe things are happening way faster now.
I'll have to do some testing with the scalar, could be the reason I can't boost past 4.35Ghz. I have never touched the LLC, I'm assuming I'm on AUTO. I used to optimize LLC with Piledriver but with AMD's new Ryzen I haven't touched the LLC settings as I never had an issue with Vdrop on Ryzen, however now I'm thinking I may be able to increase the LLC and lower my Vcore while retaining stability.
 
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cowboy44mag

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to be honest i haven't really tested scalar much but i had a quick test and i was getting worse results in higher scalar, maybe due to temps, CB at least, so i ended up leaving it at the lowest.
The other thing that concerns me a bit is with all the scalar settings and the Pbo in general i m a little worried because im constantly running LLC extreme so i dunno, i wonder if given that ryzen boots really fast perhaps adding the extra dimension of the PBO on the boot issue perhaps the mobo will not cope with it eventually, like i supposedly have some of the best possible VRMs in C7H and reliable LLC but maybe things are happening way faster now.

Ok, so I was able to further optimize my overclock, and I thank you for mentioning LLC. Its something that I haven't really tried to optimize since the old Piledriver days, but I am running LLC level 5 now and was able to lower my positive offset quite a bit. Under full load I am now operating with the same 1.373V motherboard sensor (VDDCR CPU) but am now running with 1.337V on the CPU Core Voltage sensor. I think that overall my voltages have improved and my temps have also decreased by about 1, 2C. I would have never even thought about my LLC until you mentioned it, so thank you!!

My new Cinebench R20 score... and I think that saying I'm trying to break 5400, it is really screwing with me now...
133715
 

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My new Cinebench R20 score... and I think that saying I'm trying to break 5400, it is really screwing with me now...
Kill explorer.exe process before run. Then start a new one. Its helps a little. Try also turn off wifi.
 
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Also scores can vary between runs. In my case usually it is first score is the highest one and all next scores are lower, some of them much lower.
 

PrimoGhost

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Sep 20, 2019
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Thats why You need to use real time priority. The scores should be flat then.
 
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