Problems with mouse cursor lockup.

[Frag_Maniac]

For a few weeks or so I've been having problems with my G400 exhibiting momentary cursor freeze. It can happen in games or on the desktop or net. At first I thought it may have been one of a pack of several Windows updates that came out a few weeks ago, but I can't find anything in my searching indicating any of the updates has caused this.

It doesn't help that a couple of the games I'm playing lately seem to have mouse issues. In Project CARS, the cursor will show onscreen in places where it doesn't need to, then suddenly disappear. In The Evil Within and The Old Blood, instead of a cursor issue, I'll momentarily lose mouse look at the worse possible time and have to replay a section. Usually clicking one of the mouse buttons fixes it.

This typically lasts for only a few seconds, but 99% of the time, surfing, desktop use or gaming is normal. I'd read a bit about this kind of problem to see if there's anything specifically with the mouse that might be causing it. All the buttons work fine and I haven't had it very long. Not nearly as long as my last Logi mouse. I found some cases where a poorly attached mouse cord can cause this, but when I wiggle the cord, I can never replicate it, so I'm thinking it may be a software issue.

I DID find a software update for the mouse, which I installed, but the problem persists. I also tried rolling back to Cat 14.12 from the 15.4 beta, still no luck. I've also tried disabling certain USB device features that can cause cursor lock, but still no luck. I've tried reinstalling Chrome too.

If this isn't a software issue I'm wondering if maybe the mouse's optical sensor is getting erratic, because it only happens when moving the mouse, vs clicking buttons. I may actually call Logitech about this and ask them.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Jut an update, I researched this some more and have found that some have had a cursor disconnect problem with this mouse after a while. Some indicate cord connection problems, which doesn't seem to be the case for me. Others think they're experiencing a malfunctioning sensor or firmware problems, which seems more likely, esp since Logi on the support forums recommends trying running the mouse without their software. I just tried that and so far after playing The Old Blood and a bit of net and desktop use, I've not had the cursor disconnect.

I certainly hope this is not acceptable to Logi that your mouse works better without than with their software, esp after having no problems for 2 yrs 9 months. The only problem is, I fear if they DO offer a replacement, I'll get a mouse that has even worse problems.

Does anyone here happen to know if when they offer a replacement under warranty, do you have to send them your mouse and wait for the replacement?

 

[OneMoar]

If you game heavily it would't surprise me at all if the mouse has simply had it
the only thing you can do is tear it down and clean it thoroughly there may be some microscopic bit of dirt or hair inside on the reverse side of the sensor prism

 

[Frag_Maniac]

If you game heavily it would't surprise me at all if the mouse has simply had it
the only thing you can do is tear it down and clean it thoroughly there may be some microscopic bit of dirt or hair inside on the reverse side of the sensor prism

Aaaand the ironic thing there is, that no doubt WOULD void the warranty.

Seriously though, thanks for the suggestion but I plan to wait for their response. They said they can't authorize a replacement unless all the troubleshooting steps they emailed me don't work, which they didn't.

I've also contacted Newegg, and they said they'll do anything they can to help get me a manufacturer replacement in the case of the mouse not working with any of Logi's troubleshooting steps and if Logi refuses to replace it.

I had an MX500 that easily outlasted this one with lots of use. Seems to me the more complex the mouse, the more failure prone they are.

 

[OneMoar]

Aaaand the ironic thing there is, that no doubt WOULD void the warranty.

Seriously though, thanks for the suggestion but I plan to wait for their response. They said they can't authorize a replacement unless all the troubleshooting steps they emailed me don't work, which they didn't.

I've also contacted Newegg, and they said they'll do anything they can to help get me a manufacturer replacement in the case of the mouse not working with any of Logi's troubleshooting steps and if Logi refuses to replace it.

I had an MX500 that easily outlasted this one with lots of use. Seems to me the more complex the mouse, the more failure prone they are.

take the canned air to it with gusto and see what happens
I used to burn though a mouse every year back when Played competitive quake 3 and it s mods

 

[Frag_Maniac]

take the canned air to it with gusto and see what happens
I used to burn though a mouse every year back when Played competitive quake 3 and it s mods

I haven't tested it thoroughly yet without Logi's software installed, but seems to me if it continues not having the problem that way, it's not likely hardware related. I would think it would more likely be a conflict with LGS, the Logi driver specifically, or the firmware inside the mouse.

I also tend to use my 95 PSI compressor vs canned air, which can leave CO2 residue. I had my MX500 until every crevice on it was caked with dust, and the only reason I took it apart to clean it was to free up the LMB from dirt. It never had sensor issues, even that dirty.

This mouse physically is pretty much built on that mouse, with different software, and I think it's that software that's making it glitchy.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I also tend to use my 95 PSI compressor

When it comes to cleaning out computers and other electronics, I couldn't live without my air compressor but do note that 80PSI is generally the recommended max for electronics. And I do hope you have it set up for electronics with a suitable inline moisture and particulate filter. Otherwise you risk spewing oily condensation residue from inside the tank all over your electronics. Not good.

As for your mouse freezing, have you checked for latency issues? DPC Latency Checker is what I use. Latency issues often result in audio or video stuttering but can affect mouse input too.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Actually I have an inexpensive oil less compressor that has a Teflon piston, they're quite common anymore. I also blow out the non electronic parts of the case first, and by then it IS down to 80 PSI. I find it's more important where you aim and at what angle than what pressure you use though, as aiming too closely into crevices that have no particulate escape path can lodge debri down where you can't get it out.

It's often better to blow near and parallel to a crevice than into it, which can actually suck dust out and blow it away from the part in one easy step. This is especially important with crevices that have contact points, like DIMM slots.

The main thing about cleaning a mouse though is just taking it apart voids the warranty as I said, and it's not hard for them to tell when they've been opened up because of the stickers they put on them.

I'll check out that latency tester. I have had intermittent audio problems before, but it was rectified by disabling HDMI audio in Device Manager, which wasn't working for multi channel anyway due to having an amp that doesn't support multi channel audio pass through.

I doubt this is a latency issue though, I think it's purely software related. I've put in quite a bit of gaming and some desktop and net use since disabling the Logitech driver, and I haven't had the problem since. It's also coincidental that it happens to be an older model of mouse that they probably don't do compat checks on anymore software wise. Without the software though it's just a generic mouse I paid gaming mouse money for.

My guess is a MS update or something is causing problems with the mouse software, or the firmware in the mouse itself has degraded over time. Logitech's support forum staff regularly tell people to uninstall the Logitech driver to rectify such problems. I just submitted a thread asking if that is their answer, rather than admitting it's a replacement issue for product still under warranty. After all, the software IS part of the product, and what makes it a gaming specific one.

They've yet to reply to that thread, and I've yet to get an email back after going through their required troubleshooting steps, which did nothing to fix the problem. I will wait no more than a week for an email, and then I'm going to contact Newegg again to get on them if they try to refuse replacement.

If it takes Newegg's help and especially if they insist I send a nearly 3 yr old mouse back before sending me a replacement, I won't be buying anymore of their products. And you can be damn sure in any discussions about mice and/or Logi's "support" that come up, I will not hesitate to give a bad testimonial on how their company has slipped into the apathy abyss.

 

[OneMoar]

FFS RMA/replace the mouse already
there's no magic solution or software problem here dead mouse is dead
there are better and cheaper mice available

 

[Bill_Bright]

find it's more important where you aim and at what angle than what pressure you use though

That's very true. But note that oil less does not mean no oils are inside the tank from the manufacturing process, or as particles floating in the air, drawn in during compression. And condensation will form inside the tank from the heating/cooling process of compressing humid air, mix with rust, smoke and oil particles and other contaminants in the air. I am sure your tank still has a petcock on the bottom for draining. If you don't regularly drain, it will spew out really nasty, rusty, oily water. But even regular draining will not stop some moisture from being picked up and spewed out - especially at higher PSI rates. This why every electronics repair facility I have worked had moisture and particulate filters on their air compressors.

So you still need a moisture and particulate filter when blasting electronics. Budget models can be had at your local home improvement store for less than $15 USD.

The main thing about cleaning a mouse though is just taking it apart voids the warranty as I said, and it's not hard for them to tell when they've been opened up because of the stickers they put on them.

I agree. Plus, who knows what springs and button levers will go flying about when you open it!

Logitech's support forum staff regularly tell people to uninstall the Logitech driver to rectify such problems.

That's because that's on their checklist of things to tell customers and they are not allowed to deviate from the checklist. It's like calling your ISP tech support after you have done a full power reset of you network. They will not talk to you until you do another full power reset.

I would contact Logitech tech support and not deal with the forum.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I really haven't had issues with residue with my compressor like I have with canned air. I'm sure there's trace amounts, but the distance I blow at leaves nothing you can feel, even if blown right at your hand. If it makes you feel better I'll look at some filters, but I'm not really inclined to think I need one. The amount of residue we're talking about doesn't even dampen the dust enough to keep it from flying off easily. I also treated all my case fans with Armorall when my case was new, so dust doesn't really cling to them. And yes my 3 gal hotdog air tank has a drain valve at the bottom as they all do, which I open after each use, but I only ever get a slight amount of condensation settling to the bottom, and it never feels oily.

I don't think Logitech's support anymore is structured enough to have all staff required to use a specific check list. The guy on the phone paused a lot as if he was referencing the troubleshooting steps, yet none of the steps said anything about uninstalling the Logitech driver. That is what the guys on the support FORUM say. Either way though, using a gaming peripheral as a generic device without it's software is unacceptable. They should either not be saying it, or just using it as a troubleshooting step, then offer some resolve to get you up and running WITH software.

I'm not really worried about the mechanical part of taking the mouse apart, I had no trouble opening and cleaning my MX500, which is physically the same mouse. Its all about the warranty coverage. Were it past warranty I'd have already taken it apart to inspect it with my 6 power LED lit magnifying glass and clean as needed.

@OneMoar,

Yeah I've been looking at other brands.There's a lot of ones with 2 thumb buttons, but if you so much as want adjustable DPI, you're usually into the gaming mice with special software. Then the worry about software malfunctions start all over again.

The funny thing is, I was dead set on another Logitech, until this happened and had some worries about their support. It's really too soon to tell what their final resolve will be, but it already feels like they're trying to avoid replacement.

 

[OneMoar]

I really haven't had issues with residue with my compressor like I have with canned air. I'm sure there's trace amounts, but the distance I blow at leaves nothing you can feel, even if blown right at your hand. If it makes you feel better I'll look at some filters, but I'm not really inclined to think I need one. The amount of residue we're talking about doesn't even dampen the dust enough to keep it from flying off easily. I also treated all my case fans with Armorall when my case was new, so dust doesn't really cling to them. And yes my 3 gal hotdog air tank has a drain valve at the bottom as they all do, which I open after each use, but I only ever get a slight amount of condensation settling to the bottom, and it never feels oily.

I don't think Logitech's support anymore is structured enough to have all staff required to use a specific check list. The guy on the phone paused a lot as if he was referencing the troubleshooting steps, yet none of the steps said anything about uninstalling the Logitech driver. That is what the guys on the support FORUM say. Either way though, using a gaming peripheral as a generic device without it's software is unacceptable. They should either not be saying it, or just using it as a troubleshooting step, then offer some resolve to get you up and running WITH software.

I'm not really worried about the mechanical part of taking the mouse apart, I had no trouble opening and cleaning my MX500, which is physically the same mouse. Its all about the warranty coverage. Were it past warranty I'd have already taken it apart to inspect it with my 6 power LED lit magnifying glass and clean as needed.

@OneMoar,

Yeah I've been looking at other brands.There's a lot of ones with 2 thumb buttons, but if you so much as want adjustable DPI, you're usually into the gaming mice with special software. Then the worry about software malfunctions start all over again.

The funny thing is, I was dead set on another Logitech, until this happened and had some worries about their support. It's really too soon to tell what their final resolve will be, but it already feels like they're trying to avoid replacement.

I have had zero issues with my rocatt kone in the 6 months I have had it the software is among the best I have ever used
logitech is crap now I have owned 4 Logitech products over 4 years ranging from keyboards to mice to webcam's and they have all been complete garbage
there build quality continues to slip with every passing year and as you found out there customer support is non-existent
as for software issues hardly a problem ever with the rare exception (looking at coolermaster/corsair)

 

[Mussels]

that sounds like cursor show-through, generally caused by an app losing focus.

as an example of this i installed an add-on to chrome that hibernates tabs to free up RAM, and when playing DX11 games (in this example, galactic civilisation 3) - it would act as if i'd clicked on the browser behind the game, and suddenly alt-tab me back to the browser. smaller 'always on top' apps caused similar behaviour.

 

[OneMoar]

that sounds like cursor show-through, generally caused by an app losing focus.

as an example of this i installed an add-on to chrome that hibernates tabs to free up RAM, and when playing DX11 games (in this example, galactic civilisation 3) - it would act as if i'd clicked on the browser behind the game, and suddenly alt-tab me back to the browser. smaller 'always on top' apps caused similar behaviour.

sounds like a sensor on the fritz to me what you described is generally predictable and reproducible
I guess he could try plugging it into a another machine =/

 

[Mussels]

sounds like a sensor on the fritz to me what you described is generally predictable and reproducible
I guess he could try plugging it into a another machine =/

i've seen similar behaviour from what i described above and even a dying SSD, sometimes only very minor differences in symptoms between major issues.

"In Project CARS, the cursor will show onscreen in places where it doesn't need to" - that is NOT a sensor issue

 

[ozorian]

just wait Logi support response m8 from all u said i believe its a hardware sensor problem....
If its like i said they cant do anything but replace it!!
trust me....

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Thanks for the input guys, but as I've been saying for the last couple posts, I've yet to have it happen since uninstalling the Logitech driver. So how could it be a hardware problem if the sensor does not malfunction without their driver? I've played lengthy sessions of The Old Blood and The Evil Within, two of the games I experienced it in before, with no lockups or loss of crosshair since uninstalling their driver.

I don't know if their hardware is getting worse, I've yet to see evidence of that on my end, but the software has been complained about a lot, both on open forums and their own. As Mussels said I get the cursor showing in Project CARS when it shouldn't. It will be interesting to see if that no longer happens since uninstalling the driver.

So yeah, I'm hoping they replace it, and I really don't care what their diagnosis is if they do, but it seems clear to me they're a bit in denial about the definition of gaming mouse if their forum staff think it's OK to tell people to just run it without the software, and in the process lose the gaming features.

 

[Bill_Bright]

If it makes you feel better I'll look at some filters, but I'm not really inclined to think I need one.

It is not to make me feel better. But you are incorrect to believe you don't need one. Just because you have not seen any residue does not mean it is not there. It is like smoke residue on the inside of the windshield of a smoker's car. The fact your compressor has a petcock drain should tell you moisture gets in there. And for sure, the tank is steel, which will rust. And the compression process will create condensation which will collect on the interior walls of the tank and run down, collecting rust, dust and other contaminants that were sucked in along the way.

Those contaminants will be spewed out, whether you see them or not and will get blasted into the connections, sockets, optical drives (think lens), fan bearings (if not sealed bearings) via the pressure of the air flow. If you choose to ignore or dismiss that fact, that is your right, but then I recommend you stick to cans of compressed dusting gas. Just be sure to hold the cans level.

Please note I am not saying this as any wannabe expert on computers, but as noted via the link in my sig, I'm a formally trained electronics technician who worked in several USAF air traffic control electronics maintenance facilities around the world and for many years - formally trained on how to clean and maintain sensitive, and very expensive electronics, including computers. All good repair facilities filter their compressed air.

You don't need a filter to inflate your car tires, for your nail gun (though I do), or pneumatic socket wrench. But you do when spraying out electronics - and air-brush painting cakes, or faces!

****

As for drivers, reinstalling drivers is the always the first logical step, so it makes sense forum helpers would suggest that too.

So yeah, I'm hoping they replace it, and I really don't care what their diagnosis is if they do, but it seems clear to me they're a bit in denial about the definition of gaming mouse if their forum staff think it's OK to tell people to just run it without the software, and in the process lose the gaming features.

I think this shows a common issue with many peripherals - including mice, keyboards and printers. Windows already knows how to communicate with mice, keyboards and printers with its own basic drivers. Most often, the maker's drivers, just enable the extra features and buttons but really don't do anything for performance - except often degrade it because the drivers add so much bloat.

A gaming mouse is really no different than any mouse when it comes to placing the cursor. Calling it a "gaming" mouse is just a marketing tactic to suggest the mouse has extra buttons and cool looks. If you don't need the extra buttons, stick with Windows own drivers.

 

[OneMoar]

decompressing air = condensation
nuffsaid on the subject

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Well some as well say vacuums are a no no for cleaning computers, yet you see them being made specifically for it, and some PC shops actually using them. Almost any tool can be misused and result in abusing the parts you're working on though, even the common screw driver.

Like I said a lot of it has to do with how and at what distance you aim the air nozzle. I'm sure most microscopic particulates are mixing with the built up dust I'm blowing off and just being sucked into my vac as I hold it where I see the dust fly, along with the overhead stove vent (I do all this on a cutting board atop my stove).

For the hell of it I checked on some compressor filters though. Not surprisingly Home Depot and Lowes employees, even those working in the tool department, were clueless about them, indicating few people buy them. They seemed to be saying they were for online purchase only.

It wasn't until I looked on Amazon that I started seeing a lot of people buying them and giving testimonials, most for use with paint sprayers to avoid bubbles. I found a Tekton one for only $10 with pretty good reviews so decided to try it.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001NSYV58/?tag=tec06d-20

What I like about this one is it has male and female fittings, unlike those you see at the big box stores which have two female fittings. It's also straight in line, vs a T fitting, so it facilitates end of hose placement better.

A lot of people make the mistake of mounting compressor filters at the compressor, but if you have a 25' coiled hose (which I do), THAT is where a lot of the condensation builds up as the air moves rapidly through the narrow passage.

Plus if you have the filter near your hand, you can easily check to see if it needs draining, and this one has a drain. I'll report back on how much water and/or oil buildup I see in this unit. My only worry is how durable the plastic vial is.

I may put a couple bands of rubber around it cut from an old narrow bike inner tube I have. I'm not in the habit of dropping the air nozzle, but you never know, it might slip out of your hand at some point.

At 11 yrs old now, I'm sure most of the residual factory lube is in the micro porous surfaces of the tank and piston, and I know Teflon piston compressors don't last as long, but I had to get one quiet enough to run in my apt, and this one is very quiet. I only use it every now and then though. About every few months to blow the PC out, and much less often than that for filling tires.

And I'm sorry, but a gaming mouse is much more than just "extra buttons". Someone with lots of PC and gaming experience should know that. If it were just that I'd buy a regular mouse with two thumb buttons and be done with it, since many games recognize thumb button binding with generic drivers.

A gaming mouse typically has DPI adjustments and Keyboard macros, and the ability to setup profiles per game. A lot of people imply you only need one DPI and can adjust in game from there, which is mostly true, but I have found since having an on the fly DPI adjustable model, they are invaluable for games which have turrets or other objects that need on the fly adjustment.

 

[Solaris17]

Frag can you do me a solid and run a SMART check on all of your drives?

 

[Frag_Maniac]

Frag can you do me a solid and run a SMART check on all of your drives?

Is that a troubleshooting step more for you or me? LOL

I don't see why, I have said numerous times there's no issues without the Logi driver installed, so how could it be drive problems? Some seem to be in denial that Logi is slipping in just about every way. Check Amazon and start reading reviews on gaming mice There are other cheaper brands that are beating them and Razer on sales AND reviews lately.

 

[sneekypeet]

I will just say this and leave it fly how it flies.

I have used logitech gear in some form or fashion for the last 20 years. Never once have i been able to run the software long without it causing some sort of an issue

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I will just say this and leave it fly how it flies.

I have used logitech gear in some form or fashion for the last 20 years. Never once have i been able to run the software long without it causing some sort of an issue

Thanks for your input. This thread is starting to look like a good thing to show Logi, should they try and refute that. You'd think that their own forum staff suggesting running them on generic drivers would be enough though.

It's starting to look like a Logi 3 yr warranty really means 3 years on switches, sensors, etc, but 1 year after debut of said model on software support.

After chatting in the gaming mouse for under $25 thread, I'm starting to see the light. It had me checking gaming mice on Amazon in that price range, and some, like Sentey, are apparently very well made and supported. They have a toll free number and you can talk to guys that actually help engineer them.

The only problem is the model I looked at appears to have fixed 400, 1700, and up DPI settings, which just won't cut it for me. I prefer to do most of my mousing at 800-1000 DPI.

 

[HTC]

As of late, i've only been playing diablo 3. It's there that i first notice odd behaviour from my mouse: it would stall it's movements sometimes and actually stop for small periods (my mouse is a logitech MX performance, btw). I've even went as far as get a replacement mouse (different brand) but ... it got worse???? Since this only seems to happen within the game, i posted in the D3 bug topic section .

Seems a bit different from your problem: do you recognize any of the symptoms i describe in that bug post? Do they also happen with your mouse? Tbh, i have yet to try NOT using logitech's software: hadn't thought of that, really.