Radeon HD 5890?

[cadaveca]

Doesn't matter whether that pic is fake or not, does it? There is NO HD5890 @ 2560 SPs, and the current chips don't have 2560 SPs.

Also take Cypress, and put it in GT200B die size, but on smaller process. Devote that extra space entirely to SPs and supporting I/O, and sideport. Pic taken from that anandtech link.

I think they killed the idea of such a large chip due to problems getting a efficiently working scheduler. They have issues as it is keeping all those SPs loaded. more would just make the issue worse, and increase needed inter-gpu communications channels, making it far more complex than some think. You don't just drop in SPs, and expect a boost; in fact you should expect it to kill the chips functions. Chip design ain't nothing easy.

 

[KainXS]

hmmm,
Anantech says that the HD6XXX series is coming at the end of the year(have close ties with AMD).
BSN is saying that its coming next year(based on AMD's old roadmaps).

who to believe

 

[cadaveca]

Neither. Both want you to visit the site, and maybe click an advert. Of course they say different things.

Go listen to an investor meeting or financial report if you want real info. Watch a video interview, or audio interview, with an AMD/ATI employee, so you can catch the truth and the bullshit. Isn't too hard, really. It's why every once in a while I mention a certain blond, and her mentioning 3ghz Phenoms. You could tell she was full of it. THe difference was, it wasn't reported in words on some website, it came out of someone's mouth. It's easy to tell when someone truly beleives in what they are saying. You don't get that from the interwebs.

 

[Benetanegia]

Doesn't matter whether that pic is fake or not, does it? There is NO HD5890 @ 2560 SPs, and the current chips don't have 2560 SPs.

Also take Cypress, and put it in GT200B die size, but on smaller process. Devote that extra space entirely to SPs and supporting I/O, and sideport. Pic taken from that anandtech link.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33823&stc=1&d=1267397555

Yeah, sorry. I didn't catch that you were speaking hypothetically. I thought that the Anand link was trying to confirm (set a fact) that the die actually existed.

I think they killed the idea of such a large chip due to problems getting a efficiently working scheduler. They have issues as it is keeping all those SPs loaded. more would just make the issue worse, and increase needed inter-gpu communications channels, making it far more complex than some think. You don't just drop in SPs, and expect a boost; in fact you should expect it to kill the chips functions. Chip design ain't nothing easy.

I think the same, and I also think that's the very same reason that HD5830 has been crippled so much (ROPs specially). I bet that even with so few shaders if the HD5830 mantained 32 ROPs, it would have been almost as fast as HD5870 in most cases if both were running at same clocks, just as HD5850 is just as fast.

I don't think that the HD5890 is going to have any extra SP/TMU/ROP/MC either, because of what you say. I've been saying what you're saying since it was released and didn't perform even remotedly close to what I thought it would perform given the specs.

Some say that RV870 was designed to be able to perform 2 triangles per clock, but the reality is that it can only do 1. Is it broken? It was a feature that fell apart in the last compasses? In any case, IMO if they change something in the HD5890 it's going to be there.

 

[cadaveca]

If there will even be a HD5890...I only see that if they do a HD6xxx September release. Limited-run HD5-series refresh in June-July.

Things are different now...they usually put lessser-grade chips on smaller process to prepare for the next gen, and have not done that with Cypress. Expect the unexpected from now on...

In regards to function..I dunno. Could just be a driver problem, for all I know.

And personally, I think the die-shot could be real, but it's not relevant to products on the market, or expected.

 

[Benetanegia]

If there will even be a HD5890...I only see that if they do a HD6xxx September release. Limited-run HD5-series refresh in June-July.

Things are different now...they usually put lessser-grade chips on smaller process to prepare for the next gen, and have not done that with Cypress. Expect the unexpected from now on...

In regards to function..I dunno. Could just be a driver problem, for all I know.

Unless I'm not uderstanding the comment, they did that with RV740. Or what do you mean?

 

[cadaveca]

Yes, and RV6xx etc as well. They are not doing this same "research" this generation, and have contractual obligations to GF for gpu production.

In the past, they were confined to TSMC's release schedule. This is not the case any more. HD6xxx will eb hte first real generation since the merger. I bet they are itching for a release.

 

[Benetanegia]

Yes, and RV6xx etc as well. They are not doing this same "research" this generation, and have contractual obligations to GF for gpu production.

In the past, they were confined to TSMC's release schedule. This is not the case any more. HD6xxx will eb hte first real generation since the merger. I bet they are itching for a release.

Ah, you mean they are not doing that with 28nm? Hmm that's right, at least we have no news about anything, a refresh on 28nm or something. Everyone talks about HD6000 being the first 28nm Ati GPU. Hmm, I didn't thought of it.

About the die shot, the only way I can see it being real, is if it was an experiment similar to that 80 core CPU made by Intel. To see how far they could reach with their current architecture.

 

[cadaveca]

That's exactly what I think it is. I mean, as it is, look at the size of the cypress PCBs...pretty complex, and large, for such a small chip. A bigger chip...sheesh. I can clearly understand how it's more than possible that nV might never get Fermi working right. Or...it's intended chip is far more complex...definately worthy of another power phase. If that hole wasn't there, nobody would even think about HD5890.

With that in mind, HD5x90 of any variant doesn't make any sense. They can invest time into further R&D for TSMC's current process, or they can cut losses, leave things as they are, and move onto the next thing.

Except the next thing isn't anywhere near ready @ TSMC.

AMD has gone closed-door on thier tech. The best we can do is guess at this point, given the info they let out, and other stuff that's already known...

Problems with 5870 are known, as it's on the marketplace already. Not too much to fix there...at least, not anything that AMD has any real control over. So, we gotta look elsewhere, like TSMC, for possible outcomes.

Do you think they can improve things enough for AMD to get 1ghz+ chips, in high quantity??

 

[a_ump]

That's exactly what I think it is. I mean, as it is, look at the size of the cypress PCBs...pretty complex, and large, for such a small chip. A bigger chip...sheesh. I can clearly understand how it's more than possible that nV might never get Fermi working right. Or...it's intended chip is far more complex...definately worthy of another power phase. If that hole wasn't there, nobody would even think about HD5890.

With that in mind, HD5x90 of any variant doesn't make any sense. They can invest time into further R&D for TSMC's current process, or they can cut losses, leave things as they are, and move onto the next thing.

Except the next thing isn't anywhere near ready @ TSMC.

AMD has gone closed-door on thier tech. The best we can do is guess at this point, given the info they let out, and other stuff that's already known...

Problems with 5870 are known, as it's on the marketplace already. Not too much to fix there...at least, not anything that AMD has any real control over. So, we gotta look elsewhere, like TSMC, for possible outcomes.

Do you think they can improve things enough for AMD to get 1ghz+ chips, in high quantity??

1: good point, and you'd think they'd be putting cash towards their next gen since the current is a bang so no need to put more cash into it

2: i dout it, i think it'd be fall before we could see the process get that good, good enough for nvidia to be able to produce like ATi is.

 

[Lionheart]

I wants a HD5890!

 

[_33]

I think there is still potential for like I said earlier a 950mhz HD5890 from ATI, as I found proof of feasability right here from Gigabyte: http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17890/1/

 

[cadaveca]

The potential definitely exists, but seems unlikely. Due to teh current situation, they'd haveto be super-binning chips for this already, but to me, it seems as though most of those chips will go into 850/1200mhz 5970's.

They don't have to have a top performer compared to nV at this point. It will have been 6 months, in the least, that ATi has had the top spot. it would make more sense for them to save the R&D costs, put those savings into lowering current pricing, and fight nV with pricing when they DO release.

What matters at this ponit is what makes teh best business sense. A 5890 doesn't make good business sense.

As an aside, XFX has yet to release a "Black Edition" 5870. They are saving that SKU for a reason...and to me, that reason is no 5890. Partners will simply be allowed to release what ever design and clock speeds they want.

 

[20mmrain]

I have heard (only rumors but from fairly reasonable sites) That yes a whole 5000 series refresh in the works. And the 6000 series will be out early next year January.

But that is the best I have heard.

Some speculate that trillian = 5890 'or 5000 series refresh' Some also speculate that trillian = Eyefinity 5870 version cards. You will just have to wait and see.

But my guess is trillian = 5000 series refresh and North Islands = 6000 series @ 28nm

Unlikely but ATI's Future planes says something about a 32nm GPU..... maybe the trillian refresh might even have a shrink with it. I also have heard that ATI will skip 32nm all together so that could be false to.

Sorry about all the speculation..... I just figured I would tell you everything I have seen so far so you could be up to date on basically all the rumors right now.

I just found this too.... Interesting...... If you read this it might get closer to answering this question!!! But it looks like it has been around awhile.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/11/2/amds-next-gen-gpu-manhattan-and-northern-islands-use-32nm-process.aspx

 

[Hayder_Master]

2560 shaders does sound good

The 2560 SP parts were not final revisions. The 2560 SP part also had sideport, but these things were moved in order to improve yields.

The whole 2560 SP thing was something I started many moons ago, as I thought a shader for each pixel line @ 2560x1600, and a 800mhz clock(with 2 pixels per clock per SP), seemed an ideal config.

But, if you read recent interviews, one was with AMD engineering head who stated that even what he wanted was a much bigger chip, than the current Cypress. Ati has it's own mini-fab in Ontario, so they have the capability to run off whatever they like for testing, the shown die-shot is probably one of these test chips.

Running the 4770 chips on the current process for Cypress allowed them to know what error rate they'd have wit hteh process, and it seems to me that they had to go with a much smaller die in order to get closer to target, which still wasn't reached 100%, but they'd have been far worse off(as NV is) had they not had the prior experience making chips @ that process @ TSMC.

hmmm,
Anantech says that the HD6XXX series is coming at the end of the year(have close ties with AMD).
BSN is saying that its coming next year(based on AMD's old roadmaps).

who to believe

even it's come with this huge of SP's still memory bandwidth bottleneck this powerful GPU, increase memory bandwidth like 512 bit solve the problem and with this GPU it will be best card for 3 years later, they can do this but maybe keep it for HD 78XX not even HD 68xx

 

[jessicafae]

One more possibility for the "5xxx refresh" might be Evergreen on SOI 32nm from GlobalFoundaries. Ok hear me out....

The reason I say this is that the AMD Llano "Fusion" has taped out acording to BSN. This is a 32nm SOI "silicon on insulator" chip. What is REALLY interesting about this announcement is that they got an "evergreen" GPU on that integrated/FUSION die. This means they worked out the details of getting a basic evergreen GPU working on 32nm SOI which is major news. All previous GPUs (I believe, please correct me if I am wrong) have been on "bulk silicon process" and not on high performance SOI (silicon on insulator) processes. Most likely the Lllano GPU is something like a a 40 or 80shader design, but this is may be the "test chip on new process" that we have been talking about.

I know I am extrapolating here, but evergreen has been out for 6 months already and I am certain that ATI has not been idle all this time. And ATI has multiple engineering teams, so one team might be "porting" evergreen to 32nm SOI just like 4770 was the test-chip/port of the RV770 design to 40nm.

edit: actually the BSN article was dated feb 9, and it "generally" takes 4 weeks from tape out to A0 silicon, so the A0 Llano fusion chip with 32nm SOI GPU might be at AMD/ATI now.

 

[Krayzie Bone]

ATi is supposed to release a low or mid range HD 6000 card near the end (late September) of 2010 HD 6770 and 6570 maybe. Then sometime around the New year they will release HD 6870 6850 6890 6970 but who knows as all this can change.

I just want a HD 5890 1ghz core clock 2GB Gddr5 and a 384 bit memory interface but unfortunately these are the same specs for a high end HD 6870.

 

[20mmrain]

I doubt that they will be releasing a 5890 this time around. If you look at ATI timing schedule it would already have had to be out. If they are going to stay true to relasing a new card about every year or so.

Also right now the GTX 480 and the 5870 are already so close in performance they really have no reason to do this.

I would guess if you do see a refresh it will be the Southern Islands Cards we all have been hearing about. Which is speculated to be a Hybred between the new Northern Island Archtecture and and the current 5000 series.

But even if it is a refresh like I just stated I think that would be named the new 600 series.

I am just going by what seems to be the popular rumors.

For all I know the 5890 could release tomorrow.

Here is a back up for what I was talking about

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33964598