Ryzen Master vs. HWiNFO64 vs. NZXT CAM show 3 different CPU temps?!

[Emiliano85]

Hi guys.

I just finished building my new rig (specs are listed on my profile). I'm new to AMD and Ryzen, and am being pretty confused about the temps on my 3950X paired with my new Kraken Z73.

In idle i get 3 different temps. - the lowest one from Ryzen Master shows 36-40 degrees celcius, while both HWiNFO and NZXT always shows about 5-10 degrees celcius more. Further more the Ryzen Master temp. is pretty stable, where as the two other softwares keeps fluctating all of the time, jumping from 40 to 49 back down to 44 then to 50 ect. Why is this happening - and which of the temps. is most trustworthy?

Ambient temps. are 23 degrees celcius.

 

[Zach_01]

Read below please all the posts in there

Ryzen Master vs HWInfo - >5 degree difference...

Hi, Quick question. What am I missing??? Which software do I trust? Ryzen Master is reporting my CPU to be 5 degrees lower (sometimes WAY more) than HWInfo and I am now not sure which one to trust. After reading online, the author of HWInfo stated that AMD refuses to allow third parties...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Emiliano85]

Read below please all the posts in there

Ryzen Master vs HWInfo - >5 degree difference...

Hi, Quick question. What am I missing??? Which software do I trust? Ryzen Master is reporting my CPU to be 5 degrees lower (sometimes WAY more) than HWInfo and I am now not sure which one to trust. After reading online, the author of HWInfo stated that AMD refuses to allow third parties...

www.techpowerup.com

Hi Zach.

Thanks for reaching out.

I actually already read the discussion you are linking to + a couple of other forum threads off of a Google search. I'm new to this, so it's a little confusing to me still.

My CPU (Tctl/Tdie) fluctates like crazy (and is also the one NZXT goes by i see when i compare the LCD of my Z73 with HWiNFO) - which is not a big issue for me, the thing is it goes from 37 all the way up to 56 on some rare occasions in idle. Mostly it jumps up and down between 40-48 though. This concerns me a bit, when i read loosely about "good temps", which to my understanding should be on the low side of 35-40 while idling?

The thing is, how useable is the CPU (Tctl/Tdie) temp. in terms of giving a "general" or "realistic" temperature of my CPU? I don't know how to describe it in a better way sorry (english is not my first language) - but taken into consideration it is based "only" on the absolut highest temp. inside the CPU package, most likely only for about a very short period, it can't possibly be the best number to look at, in terms of having a more generalized or reliable "every day use temp." - if you know what i mean?

The CPU Die (average) seems to be more my cup of tea. For one it's lower, which of course i like, but most importantly it's an average, hence giving a more realistic (again sorry if i'm using the wrong word - hope you are following me still) temp. to go by. What do you think?

Ambient room temp. is 22-23 degrees celcius fyi.

Out of curiousity: Which of these 4 numbers (if any of them) do people/youtubers look at, when running benchmarks/reviews/AIO temp. comparisons?

Thanks.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

idle temps are almost irrelevant unless they're abnormally high like in the 60c range. I would run a benchmark like R20 and loop it for 10m that should give you an idea of how your cooler is performing. There is so much variation motherboard to motherboard and even CPU to CPU trying to compare temps on two different setups other than getting a generally idea is pointless.

All that being said make sure you're on the latest bios with the latest chipset driver and make sure PBO isn't enabled by default unless you're wanting it to be in bios. Also make sure you're on the Ryzen balanced power plan.


I feel Tctl is accurate in hwinfo as long as its up to date.

 

[Emiliano85]

idle temps are almost irrelevant unless they're abnormally high like in the 60c range. I would run a benchmark like R20 and loop it for 10m that should give you an idea of how your cooler is performing. There is so much variation motherboard to motherboard and even CPU to CPU trying to compare temps on two different setups other than getting a generally idea is pointless.

All that being said make sure you're on the latest bios with the latest chipset driver and make sure PBO isn't enabled by default unless you're wanting it to be in bios. Also make sure you're on the Ryzen balanced power plan.

Thanks for weighting in here as well.

I know idle temps. are not too important, it's just a little discouraging still when i've spent to much money on all the "best new equipment", reading how people are achieving lot lower temps. and/or mocking everything above 40, if you know what i mean. But it is what it is i guess. Most of all i just want to make sure i'm not doing anything wrong (in regards of thermal paste, installation, fan/pump setup etc.) or that i didn't receive an faulty unit from NZXT. As i said, i'm new to this. Better safe than sorry.


Of the things you suggested i did the following already:

- Put Windows on Ryzen power plan (just default without fiddling with advanced settings in there - i saw some people talking about the min. and max. CPU state under "CPU power management" in there? but didn't touch any of this)
- Updated to latest BIOS for my Asus Crosshair VIII Hero
- Updated to latest chipset driver

I didn't touch PBO yet.

How do i loop Cinebench? Didn't know this was possible...

Thanks again.

 

[Zach_01]

Hi Zach.

Thanks for reaching out.

I actually already read the discussion you are linking to + a couple of other forum threads off of a Google search. I'm new to this, so it's a little confusing to me still.

My CPU (Tctl/Tdie) fluctates like crazy (and is also the one NZXT goes by i see when i compare the LCD of my Z73 with HWiNFO) - which is not a big issue for me, the thing is it goes from 37 all the way up to 56 on some rare occasions in idle. Mostly it jumps up and down between 40-48 though. This concerns me a bit, when i read loosely about "good temps", which to my understanding should be on the low side of 35-40 while idling?

The thing is, how useable is the CPU (Tctl/Tdie) temp. in terms of giving a "general" or "realistic" temperature of my CPU? I don't know how to describe it in a better way sorry (english is not my first language) - but taken into consideration it is based "only" on the absolut highest temp. inside the CPU package, most likely only for about a very short period, it can't possibly be the best number to look at, in terms of having a more generalized or reliable "every day use temp." - if you know what i mean?

The CPU Die (average) seems to be more my cup of tea. For one it's lower, which of course i like, but most importantly it's an average, hence giving a more realistic (again sorry if i'm using the wrong word - hope you are following me still) temp. to go by. What do you think?

Ambient room temp. is 22-23 degrees celcius fyi.

Out of curiousity: Which of these 4 numbers (if any of them) do people/youtubers look at, when running benchmarks/reviews/AIO temp. comparisons?

Thanks.

The Tctl/Tdie temp is the one controlling (ctl) the CPU cooler when AirTower or stock cooler is used. When using AIO the best is to have it control fans on water temp.
If you read that thread closely the Tctl/Tdie is the absolute hotspot inside CPU. It looks strange and maybe dangerous to you because no other CPU have ever shown hotspot, other than 3000 series. Its all new. What you used to see on any previous AMD or Intel CPU as "CPUtemp" is like the one "CPU CCD1/2".

I suggest to read again. The "CPU Die (average)" is not a real temp. Its just an average temp of all temp sensors inside CCD(s).

1. CPU (Tctl/Tdie)
2. CPU Die (average)
3. CPU CCD1 (Tdie)
*4. CPU CCD2 (Tdie)

*(If CPU has second CCD)

ZEN2 CPUs have multiple sensors inside. At least 50 sensors per coreCCD.
1. Is the absolute higher temp inside all the CPU package. This report switches instantly to the sensor inside CPU CCD(s) with the higher reading. (aka HotSpot)
2. Reports the average CPU temp from all sensors across all CCDs combined.
3/4. Reports (a static location) temp from a specific sensor located to a side of (each) CCD. This is more like the traditional CPU temp we all used to see in past years. (aka EdgeTemp).

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Click file then preferences run it for at least 600 seconds.

 

[Emiliano85]

The Tctl/Tdie temp is the one controlling (ctl) the CPU cooler when AirTower or stock cooler is used. When using AIO the best is to have it control fans on water temp.
If you read that thread closely the Tctl/Tdie is the absolute hotspot inside CPU. It looks strange and maybe dangerous to you because no other CPU have ever shown hotspot, other than 3000 series. Its all new. What you used to see on any previous AMD or Intel CPU as "CPUtemp" is like the one "CPU CCD1/2".

I suggest to read again. The "CPU Die (average)" is not a real temp. Its just an average temp of all temp sensors inside CCD(s).

1. CPU (Tctl/Tdie)
2. CPU Die (average)
3. CPU CCD1 (Tdie)
*4. CPU CCD2 (Tdie)

*(If CPU has second CCD)

ZEN2 CPUs have multiple sensors inside. At least 50 sensors per coreCCD.
1. Is the absolute higher temp inside all the CPU package. This report switches instantly to the sensor inside CPU CCD(s) with the higher reading. (aka HotSpot)
2. Reports the average CPU temp from all sensors across all CCDs combined.
3/4. Reports (a static location) temp from a specific sensor located to a side of (each) CCD. This is more like the traditional CPU temp we all used to see in past years. (aka EdgeTemp).

Sorry if i misunderstand you. I got the part about (1) is the hotspot (which i also commented on my prior post) and that (2) is just an average - but does an average of all possible temps. inside a CPU not give you a better overall picture to go by, than a "worst case hotspot this very second" reading in one tiny part of the processor? Or am i not getting this right?

Click file then preferences run it for at least 600 seconds.

View attachment 144886

Thanks buddy - just had a look myself and found it. Appreciate it anyway.

Running now...

Ok 600 seconds of R20 gave me an 70.2 degrees celcius. How is that?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Sorry if i misunderstand you. I got the part about (1) is the hotspot (which i also commented on my prior post) and that (2) is just an average - but does an average of all possible temps. inside a CPU not give you a better overall picture to go by, than a "worst case hotspot this very second" reading in one tiny part of the processor? Or am i not getting this right?


Thanks buddy - just had a look myself and found it. Appreciate it anyway.

Running now...

Ok 600 seconds of R20 gave me an 70.2 degrees celcius. How is that?

very good

 

[Emiliano85]

very good

Okay i'm glad to know! What would be the upper (very bad) and lower (exeptionally good) limits for this more or less?

 

[Zach_01]

Thanks for weighting in here as well.

I know idle temps. are not too important, it's just a little discouraging still when i've spent to much money on all the "best new equipment", reading how people are achieving lot lower temps. and/or mocking everything above 40, if you know what i mean. But it is what it is i guess. Most of all i just want to make sure i'm not doing anything wrong (in regards of thermal paste, installation, fan/pump setup etc.) or that i didn't receive an faulty unit from NZXT. As i said, i'm new to this. Better safe than sorry.


Of the things you suggested i did the following already:

- Put Windows on Ryzen power plan (just default without fiddling with advanced settings in there - i saw some people talking about the min. and max. CPU state under "CPU power management" in there? but didn't touch any of this)
- Updated to latest BIOS for my Asus Crosshair VIII Hero
- Updated to latest chipset driver

I didn't touch PBO yet.

How do i loop Cinebench? Didn't know this was possible...

Thanks again.

Latest chipset drivers only by AMD I suggest... (Jan 2020)

https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/x570

And Win10 on v1909.

If you want a powerplan specifically designed for 3000 install the 1usmus v1.1 universal powerplan.

1usmus Custom Power Plan for Ryzen 3000 Processors v1.1 Download

This custom power plan for AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" processors will ensure that workloads do not bounce between cores, leading to higher and more stabl

www.techpowerup.com

This to work right has some requirements
1. Latest AGESA 1.0.0.4 B
2. Latest chipset drivers (Jan 2020)
3. Win10 v1909

4. Certain BIOS settings

• Global C-state Control = Enabled
• Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle
• CPPC = Enabled
• CPPC Preferred Cores = Enabled
• AMD Cool'n'Quiet = Enabled
• PPC Adjustment = PState 0

Sorry if i misunderstand you. I got the part about (1) is the hotspot (which i also commented on my prior post) and that (2) is just an average - but does an average of all possible temps. inside a CPU not give you a better overall picture to go by, than a "worst case hotspot this very second" reading in one tiny part of the processor? Or am i not getting this right?

You got it right. Its up to you what you want to follow.
All 1,2,3/4 readings are true on their own specific way.

1. CPU (Tctl/Tdie)
2. CPU Die (average)
3. CPU CCD1 (Tdie)
*4. CPU CCD2 (Tdie)

*(If CPU has second CCD)

Personally I pay attention to 2. less than the others. In your case specifically with your CPU having 2 CCD the "2. average" is less close to real. If 1 CCD has an average of 70C and the other CCD average of 60C you will see 65C as the 2. average.

And for HWiNFO I suggest to use latest version (6.22-4060 or beta 6.23-4080)
Its a great tool

Okay i'm glad to know! What would be the upper (very bad) and lower (exeptionally good) limits for this more or less?

The operating limit of 3000 is 95C, but keep it as low as possible, under 70C if you want to get better performance.

 

[Emiliano85]

Latest chipset drivers only by AMD I suggest... (Jan 2020)

https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/x570

And Win10 on v1909.

If you want a powerplan specifically designed for 3000 install the 1usmus v1.1 universal powerplan.

1usmus Custom Power Plan for Ryzen 3000 Processors v1.1 Download

This custom power plan for AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" processors will ensure that workloads do not bounce between cores, leading to higher and more stabl

www.techpowerup.com

This to work right has some requirements
1. Latest AGESA 1.0.0.4 B
2. Latest chipset drivers (Jan 2020)
3. Win10 v1909

4. Certain BIOS settings

• Global C-state Control = Enabled
• Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle
• CPPC = Enabled
• CPPC Preferred Cores = Enabled
• AMD Cool'n'Quiet = Enabled
• PPC Adjustment = PState 0

You got it right. Its up to you what you want to follow.
All 1,2,3/4 readings are true on their own specific way.

1. CPU (Tctl/Tdie)
2. CPU Die (average)
3. CPU CCD1 (Tdie)
*4. CPU CCD2 (Tdie)

*(If CPU has second CCD)

Personally I pay attention to 2. less than the others. In your case specifically with your CPU having 2 CCD the "2. average" is less close to real. If 1 CCD has an average of 70C and the other CCD average of 60C you will see 65C as the 2. average.

And for HWiNFO I suggest to use latest version (6.22-4060 or beta 6.23-4080)
Its a great tool

View attachment 144887


The operating limit of 3000 is 95C, but keep it as low as possible, under 70C if you want to get better performance.

Thanks. Will try the AMD drivers.

Question (i tried Googling, but can't seem to find an definite answer): Do i have to uninstall the current chipset drivers before installing the AMD ones - and if so, how do i go about with this?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Thanks. Will try the AMD drivers.

Question (i tried Googling, but can't seem to find an definite answer): Do i have to uninstall the current chipset drivers before installing the AMD ones - and if so, how do i go about with this?

it should be installing them and removing the old ones.

 

[Zach_01]

I never uninstalled previous ones. But it wont hurt doing it...

 

[Emiliano85]

Ok thanks guys.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Ok thanks guys.

off topic but how is the GPU situation going?

 

[Emiliano85]

off topic but how is the GPU situation going?

I just got a brand new one 2 days ago - this one is much much better. Almost silent. Fantastic RMA by the shop i bought it in - they were the ones changing it for a new card, not Asus.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I just got a brand new one 2 days ago - this one is much much better. Almost silent. Fantastic RMA by the shop i bought it in - they were the one changing it for a brand new one!

Happy to hear that.