Sandybridge era build - weighing pros cons of new platform versus a GPU upgrade

[oxrufiioxo]

That's a nice build I woild lean 13600k solely for the fact that it actually uses raptor lake cores everything below it is rebranded Alderlake.

Not that AL is bad I just think the 13600k will have much better legs.

 

[wNotyarD]

That's a nice build I woild lean 13600k solely for the fact that it actually uses raptor lake cores everything below it is rebranded Alderlake.

Not that AL is bad I just think the 13600k will have much better legs.

I do believe there are both Alders and Raptors for the non-K 13th gen.
There was a shootout for B0 (RPL) and C0 (ADL) 13400F at HWcooling. Raptor Lake was only so slightly faster, while heating and consuming power a tad more.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I do believe there are both Alders and Raptors for the non-K 13th gen.
There was a shootout for B0 (RPL) and C0 (ADL) 13400F at HWcooling. Raptor Lake was only so slightly faster, while heating and consuming power a tad more.

The only issue is they castrated the cache on that raptorlake 13400F to perform more like the AL varient.

 

[wNotyarD]

The only issue is they castrated the cache on that raptorlake 13400F to perform more like the AL varient.

Valid.

@newconroer the i5-13500 wasn't reviewed by TPU (and according to TPU's review database, only ComputerBase.de did so). In that review, for gaming at 720p it matches the 12600K, on average, which has a 0.1GHz higher max turbo frequency. Variance comes from engines which benefit from higher clocks or from additional cores, as both are Alder Lakes.

 

[LabRat 891]

I upgraded from a 4.4ghz 24x7 3770k to a Ryzen 5 3600, keeping my RX580. That was about 2-3 years ago, and It felt worth it. I'm on a 5600 and 16GB HBM2 Vega(64), now.

IMO: Upgrade the core components, keep the 1080ti for awhile. When you can afford a new GPU, it'll actually feel like a(nother) noticeable performance lift.

 

[newconroer]

That's a nice build I woild lean 13600k solely for the fact that it actually uses raptor lake cores everything below it is rebranded Alderlake.

Not that AL is bad I just think the 13600k will have much better legs.

Thanks for that insight

Mulling over it though AMD's 7600 seems comparable to the 13500 which has been suggested as a middle ground between 12400 and 13600K

 

[Space Lynx]

Thanks for that insight

Mulling over it though AMD's 7600 seems comparable to the 13500 which has been suggested as a middle ground between 12400 and 13600K

plus you get jedi survivor for free, which looks like an excellent game with the 7600. $220 cpu and free $70 game.

raptor lake is only good if you do 6400 cl32 ram. so it depends what you are willing to invest.

on same hand 7600 is only good if you do 6000 cl30 ram.

 

[wNotyarD]

plus you get jedi survivor for free, which looks like an excellent game with the 7600. $220 cpu and free $70 game.

raptor lake is only good if you do 6400 cl32 ram. so it depends what you are willing to invest.

on same hand 7600 is only good if you do 6000 cl30 ram.

There's a bit of a difference between being good and being great. Those RAM speeds are for those who seek greatness, but both LGA1700 and AM5 can be good without them.
Only thing I personally wouldn't ever do is pairing ADL or RPL to DDR4. Yes, it is cheaper. But for me, why would I seek a new platform if not to have the newest tech?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Thanks for that insight

Mulling over it though AMD's 7600 seems comparable to the 13500 which has been suggested as a middle ground between 12400 and 13600K

If I was going ryzen I'd probably want a 7700 non X at a minimum. Ryzen is nice but tier for tier they are slower in non gaming task they also require much faster memory to perfom at their best vs Raptorlake.

I would definitely lean gigabyte motherboard if I was going ryzen from what I've seen they seem to have much better memory timings also make sure it's an expo kit.

The biggest upside for AM5 is socket longevity you'll likely get at least one additional cpu upgrade with a large perfomance increase if you choose to go with it ovet lga 1700.

Definitely do as much research into the pros and cons of each platform before deciding what's best for you.

 

[newconroer]

AMD offering

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/jzyPPX

Appreciate the CPU is not comparable to the 13600k however for that I'd be up with the 7700x, so going in the opposite direction

I am a little nervous about these lower end boards. The board I have now was about as 'cheap' as you really wanted to go back in the day before you got into cap exploding Mosfet melting bargain bin levels
Maybe they have gotten better since then at the low end

I know I want 2 or 3 PCIE 16, at least 2.5gb and minimum two M.2 slots and DDR5 support
Therefore this board I selected is OK in that regard? But whether it's 'cheap' as in production guess have to hunt some reviews

And the memory, should I be spending a little extra for the DDR5 6000 or just take the lower end 4800?
Are there any 4800s that do not use Micron and some 6000 that do? Trying to look up that old DDR database that told you whether ICs were Micron, Hynix or Samsung

 

[wNotyarD]

And the memory, should I be spending a little extra for the DDR5 6000 or just take the lower end 4800?
Are there any 4800s that do not use Micron and some 6000 that do? Trying to look up that old DDR database that told you whether ICs were Micron, Hynix or Samsung

Bang for buck for both AMD or Intel DDR5 would be 5600 CL36, I think? 4800 CL40 seems way too slow, but at least it wouldn't ever be an issue running it at its rated speed and timings.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Should give you a general idea of the quality of the cheaper boards.... The B760 boards for intel should be slightly better but at a base the B660 boards will give you an idea of their general quality.

 

[AusWolf]

K-suffix are overclockable, with unlocked multipliers when using a Z series chipset. May also carry an S suffix (KS) for especially binned models.
F-suffix means no integrated graphics (not exclusive with K suffix - KF models).
X-suffix was for HEDT, and it's been some generations since the last model (10980XE).

My addition:
K-suffix: higher default power limit, higher cooling requirements, marginal performance uplift (if any), sometimes higher price. Pointless.
F-suffix: integrated graphics is useful for more displays, or for debugging, so unless it's significantly cheaper than non-F versions, I wouldn't buy one.
X-suffix: completely different platform, don't even think about it if your goal is only gaming.
KS-suffix: the most pointless of all the pointless CPUs out there.

The only Intel (or AMD) CPUs I would buy these days are the ones without any suffix. They give you 99% of what K and X versions do, but they're cheaper, more efficient and make do with lesser cooling.

 

[dgianstefani]

Did something happen between 2019 and recently, as there are plenty of articles about 'whether to upgrade Sanybridge' as last as 2019 and find that in gaming scenarios and average use, there was very marginal benefit in a CPU change(and I presume platform change as that would be required due to the sockets)
Any reports or illustrations you could share to support your point about a performance increase, particularly a noticeable one? I struggle to find modern benchmarks that include the 2600k or anything from that era that might be of similar performance

Even a 10700K, which is more than three years old, based off a more than seven year old Skylake architecture dominates a Sandy Bridge chip. Not sure where you're getting your ideas from.

An actual current gen chip like this one for example is between 2.5 and 11 times faster. And yes, this translates to games.

Go for a 136/700K build with DDR4 if you're on a budget. Otherwise get DDR5 and either 137/900 series or 7800X3D.

 

[newconroer]

For games that are often CPU render heavy, such as RTS, MMORPG, aRPG - does Intel or AMD favor?
I suppose one thing I left off my wish list is something that is strong in the above

 

[dgianstefani]

For games that are often CPU render heavy, such as RTS, MMORPG, aRPG - does Intel or AMD favor?
I suppose one thing I left off my wish list is something that is strong in the above

Latency is king, 7800X3D is the best because much of the time the CPU can stay within cache.

Raptor lake is second best to the 7800X3D because it has excellent memory support, very fast cores and is monolithic for reduced latency vs AMD chiplets. The 7800X3D is fast despite chiplets because of the large on die cache, which is very low latency.

 

[AusWolf]

For games that are often CPU render heavy, such as RTS, MMORPG, aRPG - does Intel or AMD favor?
I suppose one thing I left off my wish list is something that is strong in the above

Latency is king, 7800X3D is the best because much of the time the CPU can stay within cache.

Raptor lake is second best to the 7800X3D because it has excellent memory support, very fast cores and is monolithic for reduced latency vs AMD chiplets. The 7800X3D is fast despite chiplets because of the large on die cache, which is very low latency.

If I was building a new system for gaming right now, I'd buy a 7800X3D without a second thought. Raptor Lake isn't bad, but higher-end chips are terribly inefficient, and I'm not a fan of E and P cores (personal preference).

 

[wNotyarD]

For games that are often CPU render heavy, such as RTS, MMORPG, aRPG - does Intel or AMD favor?
I suppose one thing I left off my wish list is something that is strong in the above

13600K is kinda one of the best gaming CPU's right now, and it is a great performer for general computing as well. At its price, it's a strong recommendation. 13700K and 13900K are overkill, and while a 7800X3D would be faster at gaming, it would probably be slower at anything else.
Taking the PC Part List you gave earlier as baseline, only thing I'd change (if it doesn't stretch your budget too much) is getting a little faster RAM. As I mentioned before, 5600 CL36 may be just fine.

 

[tussinman]

As for performance as mentioned to Fouquin,for enough years it was clear that updating the CPU wasn't making much difference in gaming and that has prevailed late into the 2010s
So what happened in the past several years that change that? Did I miss some architectural jump?

2016-2018 was kind of stagnant for 2 reasons. Ryzen 1000/2000 series wasn't that great for gaming and Intel wasn't gigantic jump up from previous gens + those mainstream Intel 8th/9th gens lacked hyperthreading if i remember correctly.

You also have to remember it was towards the end of the console generation so a lot of games were programmed on like 2014-2015 era games engines so not super demanding.

I am acutely aware that CPUs, particularly at 1440p and higher are not something you purchase every year - as the architecture changes are not frequent.
Additionally performance is often marginal and worse, the power draw TDP tends to keep rising

Power draw overall is way better now.

A $99 USD dollar 13100F (just to put that into perspective the 2700k was like over $300 a decade ago) is probably on paper 2-2.5 times faster than your overclocked 2700k all while using less than half the power.

The complaint with power is mostly based on enthusiast chips but even then people will do things like slightly downclock it (barely effecting the real-world performance) but significantly lower the power draw

 

[QuietBob]

@newconroer
It seems that you've made up your mind and decided on a platform upgrade. That's definitely a better idea than buying a faster GPU with your present config. The 1080Ti will let you max out many existing games at 1080p, or play them at 1440p with reduced detail. On the other hand, the 2600K -- even with a hefty overclock -- is already holding your card back. It's still a good CPU for general use and older games, but will run out of juice in most current titles.

As for the difference between Sandy Bridge and the previous generation of CPUs, take a look at these graphs. The games were tested with an RTX3090, which offers similar performance to the RTX4070Ti:

 

[newconroer]

13600K is kinda one of the best gaming CPU's right now, and it is a great performer for general computing as well. At its price, it's a strong recommendation. 13700K and 13900K are overkill, and while a 7800X3D would be faster at gaming, it would probably be slower at anything else.
Taking the PC Part List you gave earlier as baseline, only thing I'd change (if it doesn't stretch your budget too much) is getting a little faster RAM. As I mentioned before, 5600 CL36 may be just fine.

Then skip the 5800X3D as well?
It's currently less than the 13600k

For the RAM Ok will set that as a minimum speed
Am I after a certain manufacturer or variant of their line up for concerns around the memory IC or don't worry about it?

2016-2018 was kind of stagnant for 2 reasons. Ryzen 1000/2000 series wasn't that great for gaming and Intel wasn't gigantic jump up from previous gens + those Intel gens lacked hyperthreading.

You also have to remember it was towards the end of the console generation so a lot of games were programmed on like 2014-2015 era games engines so not super demanding.


Power draw overall is way better now.

A $99 USD dollar 13100F (just to put that into perspective the 2700k was like over $300 a decade ago) is probably on paper 2-2.5 times faster than your overclocked 2700k all while using less than half the power.

The complaint with power is mostly based on enthusiast chips but even then people will do things like slightly downclock it (barely effecting the real-world performance) but significantly lower the power draw

Thank you for explaining I understand

I take it then even the 165tdp for 13600k is not too terrible then and probably lives well under liquid cooling?

 

[AusWolf]

@newconroer
It seems that you've made up your mind and decided on a platform upgrade. That's definitely a better idea than buying a faster GPU with your present config. The 1080Ti will let you max out many existing games at 1080p, or play them at 1440p with reduced detail. On the other hand, the 2600K -- even with a hefty overclock -- is already holding your card back. It's still a good CPU for general use and older games, but will run out of juice in most current titles.

As for the difference between Sandy Bridge and the previous generation of CPUs, take a look at these graphs. The games were tested with an RTX3090, which offers similar performance to the RTX4070Ti:

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It could be worse. I see Bulldozer really aged like fine wine vinegar.

Jokes aside, I completely agree with the platform change. Even if one can't feel the effects in every single game, it is the choice that pays off in the long run.

Then skip the 5800X3D?

The problem with the 5800X3D is that it's based on an older platform which you won't be able to upgrade. End of the line. It's a fine CPU otherwise. Same with Intel's 13000 series. AMD 7000 series is the first generation for the AM5 socket, so we can expect a few more generations to be supported with a simple CPU swap and BIOS update without changing your motherboard. If you're not bothered, that's fine too, of course.

 

[wNotyarD]

Then skip the 5800X3D as well?

Personal opinion: If I (in the scenario that I had your rig instead of mine) was to rebuild right now, I'd opt for a DDR5 platform. Hence I didn't discuss the 5800X3D.
For gaming, it is still very good. AM4 is tried and tested, just not state-of-the-art anymore.

Am I after a certain manufacturer or variant of their line up for concerns around the memory IC or don't worry about it?

Not that I am aware of.

I take it then even the 165tdp for 13600k is not too terrible then and probably lives well under liquid cooling?

It is manageable with any good 240 or bigger AIO.

 

[newconroer]

Personal opinion: If I (in the scenario that I had your rig instead of mine) was to rebuild right now, I'd opt for a DDR5 platform. Hence I didn't discuss the 5800X3D.
For gaming, it is still very good. AM4 is tried and tested, just not state-of-the-art anymore.

Not that I am aware of.

It is manageable with any good 240 or bigger AIO.

Cool thank you

It was kindly highlighted twice earlier that AM5 means more upgrade flexibility for next handful of years where as LGA1700 is one and done.
I appreciate I have not changed for a decade + therefore maybe that's a moot point

That said I'll either go 13600K if taking the more expensive route, or 7600 for the budget approach
I changed the RAM To https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...6-gb-ddr5-6000-cl36-memory-cmk32gx5m2d6000z36

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Looking good there really is no wrong option you just got to decide what fits your needs better. Both platforms have their pros just grab a board that offers everything you need and you should be golden either way.