Steam Deck Developer Unit Benchmarks Leak, Shows 60 FPS is Doable

[Franzen4Real]

The question is also how much a higher quality setting will matter on a 7-inch display.

I have been of this opinion as well since the beginning. Medium settings @ 720p on a 7" screen from the distance that I would hold it will more than likely give me 95%+ of the full experience on 95%+ of the games I'll use it for. I'm perfectly fine with that considering the main intent of the device.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Well i know which i would prefer to game on any day, clue, not a shitty iphone.

 

[Valantar]

Yes it would have to be a Zen3 apu on 5nm. Or even better Zen4 APU if not to expensive. And I would prefer 1080p 60hz you know everyone is going to complain why the old version and the new version still have the same 800p res. And I don't really think 120hz will make a huge difference on this system and just use more battery.

And 1080p60 wouldn't use more battery? Of course it would. It would likely use more battery than running 800p120, both due to rendering being more demanding (800p120 is 122.88mp/s, 1200p60 (assuming they keep the 16:10 aspect ratio) is 138.24mp/s, and that doesn't take into consideration the increased demands for texture filtering etc.) and due to denser screens requiring more power to sustain the same brightness level. Zen 3 might be worth it, Zen 4 given that it would at that point be brand-new sounds like it would be a needless expense for not much benefit - unless that architecture somehow delivers a massive IPC boost even with a reduced cache size (which is doubtful). Plus, higher frame rates at the same resolution makes for a more flexible system: instead of a 30fps range of usable performance, you get a 90fps range. That's pretty massive. On the other hand, increasing resolution to 1200p60 would raise the floor of acceptable performance, meaning that unless the GPU keeps up with that >2x increase in pixels, you'll have a lower number of playable games on the new version. That sounds like a lose-lose situation to me.

I don't know what's the hate about gaming on phone? Are you all blockheads? I game on anything at hand, if the time and place is right.

I game on phone while plane or bus. I played trough old classic Final Fantasy IX recently(I've finished the older ones too) and ran PSX and PS2 emulator. So what? I had a PSP too, what's the difference like playing handheld Tetris like in my childhood. I would be happy seeing Xenosaga, Chrono Cross RPG's anywhere, and those things are easily played on mobile. I actually have played a a bit Black Desert and peeked into Genshin Impact. And those look and perform great within the envelope.

The real issue are controls, game has to be tailored or be slow paced like RPG's are. I cannot deny there are no problems for shooters with gyro assist, but this applies to Steam Deck and Phones. You may have like millions of older PC titles, what's the point, they will be hardly playable because of controls not the lack of horsepower. The dedicated controls, the deck has won't help with nutty PC titles where controls are hard tailored for the keyboard and mouse. If it is playable on controller, there are usually no problems to game it on touch only controls either.

No hate here, but the small screen size, the terrible ergonomics, the unstable performance, the "oh, I'm getting a message, the notification killed me. Great. Now I need to leave the game to respond. Oh, cool, now my game has closed because I read a text, need to spend two minutes loading. Oh, another message" loop just makes me want to avoid it. Gaming on a device that's also used constantly for other things just gets annoying to me. Plus my hands cramp up very quickly when phone gaming, I need to charge it far too often (more battery wear, yay!), and it gets uncomfortably warm. It'll do in a pinch, but the only phone gaming I do is pure casual fidget gaming.

 

[HisDivineOrder]

I'm looking forward to my Steam Deck. I just cancelled my Switch OLED preorder because I already have a Switch and paying $350 for another one seems wasteful, plus money doesn't just grow on trees for me. I chose between Steam Deck that gives me my 2000+ game library or a Switch OLED that is the same as what I have but slightly bigger and doesn't even fit my Satisfye grip because of a less than one inch size change they didn't have to do. But Nintendo gonna Nintendo. Oh well, I digress.

Thing is, I look forward to the Steam Deck. I think the big winners from the whole SD thing are going to be Linux gamers and low resolution/low spec gamers. You're going to see games offer a lot of options to try and enable lower spec systems to perform better on the new minimum spec target. Plus, Linux and Proton are about to get a LOT of emphasis put on them, which can only lead to more users and more energy. So yeah. SD is nice. But there are two subset of gamers out there that have never really had much attention that are suddenly going to be in the spotlight.

Good for them. I welcome PC gaming branching out, especially in this time of GPU shortages and GPU pricing being out of whack (separate issues).

 

[NC37]

I'm glad I cancelled my Steam Deck pre-order. Honestly steam has a great idea here, but imo they should waited another APU generation or two, and did the OLED screen like Nintendo is doing.

I was one of the lucky ones and got my Switch OLED preorder in... arrives in about 14 days. Going to be gorgeous playing some of my fav indie games in OLED...

This, totally.

I like SteamDeck, it's been a long time coming. Just, I don't think the first iteration is all that great. The m2 storage being a very rarely used standard alone pretty much hurts the appeal. Valve should have learned a thing or two from the Switch and Vita and got it right on the storage options.

 

[Ferrum Master]

No hate here, but the small screen size, the terrible ergonomics, the unstable performance, the "oh, I'm getting a message, the notification killed me. Great. Now I need to leave the game to respond. Oh, cool, now my game has closed because I read a text, need to spend two minutes loading. Oh, another message" loop just makes me want to avoid it. Gaming on a device that's also used constantly for other things just gets annoying to me. Plus my hands cramp up very quickly when phone gaming, I need to charge it far too often (more battery wear, yay!), and it gets uncomfortably warm. It'll do in a pinch, but the only phone gaming I do is pure casual fidget gaming.

Game mode is present for a while already, it will solve the notification issue. Other than that other issues you described are nitpicking especially the heat. Phone will throttle down automatically, it is a warm the manufacturer allows it to be within safe specs.

 

[Valantar]

Game mode is present for a while already, it will solve the notification issue. Other than that other issues you described are nitpicking especially the heat. Phone will throttle down automatically, it is a warm the manufacturer allows it to be within safe specs.

Game Mode is a half-measure though, as it doesn't solve the inherent issue of the same phone having to do everything. It instead becomes a tradeoff between missing notifications for a while vs. playing in a semblance of peace. As for the rest being nit-picking... well, I guess that's your opinion. I never said I thought the heat was unsafe for the phone, I said it was uncomfortable - and it is. Holding something that's around (or even above) body temperature is not pleasant over time, especially if that thing is small, dense and slick. It just makes the ergonomics worse, makes my hands sweaty, and takes me out of the game. There's a good reason why laptop and handheld manufacturer focus a lot on temperatures where your hands are (grips/WASD/wrist rest) - it makes a huge difference to the user experience. And as for draining the battery significantly being nit-picking... well, I guess you're either very comfortable with battery swaps or don't see an issue with replacing your phones much more often than is sensible, as frequent phone gaming easily gets you into "several charges a day" territory. And, of course, a warm phone won't quick charge, so there's a lot of inconvenience to it as well. And carrying around a power bank is just another impractical half-measure.

There are absolutely ways to get good gaming experiences on phones (especially with controllers/grips) but due to the form factor and do-it-all nature of the device, they will always be inferior to a dedicated device, even if the hardware is more capable overall. But then again, as with the best camera being the one you have with you, the best gaming device is the one you have access to. So context matters a lot. Luckily, I'm rarely in a situation where I want to play a game but my phone is the only way to do so.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Game Mode is a half-measure though, as it doesn't solve the inherent issue of the same phone having to do everything. It instead becomes a tradeoff between missing notifications for a while vs. playing in a semblance of peace. As for the rest being nit-picking... well, I guess that's your opinion. I never said I thought the heat was unsafe for the phone, I said it was uncomfortable - and it is. Holding something that's around (or even above) body temperature is not pleasant over time, especially if that thing is small, dense and slick. It just makes the ergonomics worse, makes my hands sweaty, and takes me out of the game. There's a good reason why laptop and handheld manufacturer focus a lot on temperatures where your hands are (grips/WASD/wrist rest) - it makes a huge difference to the user experience. And as for draining the battery significantly being nit-picking... well, I guess you're either very comfortable with battery swaps or don't see an issue with replacing your phones much more often than is sensible, as frequent phone gaming easily gets you into "several charges a day" territory. And, of course, a warm phone won't quick charge, so there's a lot of inconvenience to it as well. And carrying around a power bank is just another impractical half-measure.

There are absolutely ways to get good gaming experiences on phones (especially with controllers/grips) but due to the form factor and do-it-all nature of the device, they will always be inferior to a dedicated device, even if the hardware is more capable overall. But then again, as with the best camera being the one you have with you, the best gaming device is the one you have access to. So context matters a lot. Luckily, I'm rarely in a situation where I want to play a game but my phone is the only way to do so.

Dude... you just wrote a paragraph describing how sensitive your hands are. I have read complaints about it, but those certainly are very rare and special cases and sent with no trouble found device operates within specs. If you are into gaming and willing to do so, you will and not some random ideas like posting something on instagram etc while gaming... making up some excuses about charging, notifications(that's totally a non issue), power banks etc. It is a device you use and later throw out, it ages so fast anyways, no matter what you do or not.

Basically nitpicking. Probably we could argue that even carrying a card deck is bad, as these days too and those razor sharp card edges... tsk tsk tsk

 

[Valantar]

Dude... you just wrote a paragraph describing how sensitive your hands are. I have read complaints about it, but those certainly are very rare and special cases and sent with no trouble found device operates within specs. If you are into gaming and willing to do so, you will and not some random ideas like posting something on instagram etc while gaming... making up some excuses about charging, notifications(that's totally a non issue), power banks etc. It is a device you use and later throw out, it ages so fast anyways, no matter what you do or not.

Wow, what's with the attitude and "subtle" belittlement? Did you get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning? I would recommend taking a step back and reconsidering your approach here. And no, this isn't snark, I'm genuinely pretty shocked at your attitude here. What gives?

Also, your approach to phones is ... let's say priviliged and naïve view? Phones as disposable? I mean, I guess good for you if you have that kind of money, but even taking that into account the environmental impact of that kind of usage is just stupid. Creating e-waste just because I can isn't something I like to do, no. I expect my phones to last at least three years, barring any stupidity on my own end. Anything less than that is unacceptable. Also, "sensitive hands"? Like, what else are hands? They rank pretty high up among human sensory organs, so yeah, they're sensitive. It's their main function - interfacing with the world. Feeling uncomfortable holding something that's at or above body temperature is not a "rare and special case", it's human physiology. The range of temperatures that our skin can handle is quite limited - burn damage starts occurring even at 44°C at long exposure times (>2h), and accelerates rapidly from there. Phones obviously don't come close to that (you're not likely to hold your phone for 2 hours straight even if it did get that hot). Still, it's no wonder that 40°C gets uncomfortable. Of course discomfort varies, but nice attempt at trying to derail a legitimate and widespread concern as something highly individual I guess?

Also, who said anything about posting to instagram? I talked about reading and responding to messages. Like, interacting with other humans in your life? And "making up excuses" about charging - lolwut? Phone gaming drains the battery of the communication device most of us use constantly to stay in touch with the world, and heat prevents rapid charging. How is that "made up"? Seriously, you're doing a lot of work here trying to make my concerns and complaints come off as irrational and misinformed, which says more about you than it does about me. Please stop trying to make this personal, and please stop with the derailing techniques. It's perfectly fine if you disagree or if our experiences differ. That's life. But please stop being an ass about it. My entire point here was that while I see phone gaming as a perfectly legitimate thing to do, and something lots of people enjoy, it also has inherent issues, which makes dedicated gaming hardware inherently better in some ways. If you're not able to actually discuss that in a sensible manner, then ... perhaps leave?

Basically nitpicking. Probably we could argue that even carrying a card deck is bad, as these days too and those razor sharp card edges... tsk tsk tsk

I don't know about you, but how often do you hold a 37-40°C deck of cards weighing ~200G in a grip tight enough to accurately press specific portions of the front card? Yeah, not quite comparable, are they? As I said: working that hard to make your opponent look ridiculous just reflects poorly on you. Please stop.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Wow, what's with the attitude and "subtle" belittlement? Did you get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning? I would recommend taking a step back and reconsidering your approach here. And no, this isn't snark, I'm genuinely pretty shocked at your attitude here. What gives?

Also, your approach to phones is ... let's say priviliged and naïve view? Phones as disposable? I mean, I guess good for you if you have that kind of money, but even taking that into account the environmental impact of that kind of usage is just stupid. Creating e-waste just because I can isn't something I like to do, no. I expect my phones to last at least three years, barring any stupidity on my own end. Anything less than that is unacceptable. Also, "sensitive hands"? Like, what else are hands? They rank pretty high up among human sensory organs, so yeah, they're sensitive. It's their main function - interfacing with the world. Feeling uncomfortable holding something that's at or above body temperature is not a "rare and special case", it's human physiology. The range of temperatures that our skin can handle is quite limited - burn damage starts occurring even at 44°C at long exposure times (>2h), and accelerates rapidly from there. Phones obviously don't come close to that (you're not likely to hold your phone for 2 hours straight even if it did get that hot). Still, it's no wonder that 40°C gets uncomfortable. Of course discomfort varies, but nice attempt at trying to derail a legitimate and widespread concern as something highly individual I guess?

Also, who said anything about posting to instagram? I talked about reading and responding to messages. Like, interacting with other humans in your life? And "making up excuses" about charging - lolwut? Phone gaming drains the battery of the communication device most of us use constantly to stay in touch with the world, and heat prevents rapid charging. How is that "made up"? Seriously, you're doing a lot of work here trying to make my concerns and complaints come off as irrational and misinformed, which says more about you than it does about me. Please stop trying to make this personal, and please stop with the derailing techniques. It's perfectly fine if you disagree or if our experiences differ. That's life. But please stop being an ass about it. My entire point here was that while I see phone gaming as a perfectly legitimate thing to do, and something lots of people enjoy, it also has inherent issues, which makes dedicated gaming hardware inherently better in some ways. If you're not able to actually discuss that in a sensible manner, then ... perhaps leave?

I don't know about you, but how often do you hold a 37-40°C deck of cards weighing ~200G in a grip tight enough to accurately press specific portions of the front card? Yeah, not quite comparable, are they? As I said: working that hard to make your opponent look ridiculous just reflects poorly on you. Please stop.

It seems you like the idea of your own truth, and deny the obvious that nobody else bats an eye about your issues you experience.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It seems you like the idea of your own truth, and deny the obvious that nobody else bats an eye about your issues you experience.

I mean your in a steam deck thread promoting phone use, oblivious clearly.
I didn't get involved but a phone can't match in any way the ergonomics, controllers or play X86 game's but phones win?!.

There's a thread and section for phones on TPU.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I didn't get involved but a phone can't match in any way the ergonomics, controllers or play X86 game's but phones win?!.

Pretty much the game has to be tailored for the deck and phone and they fall in to the same bracket. You won't be playing keyboard tailored games on the Deck, simply because of the controls and UI. Press E to continue, eh?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Pretty much the game has to be tailored for the deck and phone and they fall in to the same bracket. You won't be playing keyboard tailored games on the Deck, simply because of the controls and UI. Press E to continue, eh?

Used a steam controller, I have, your wrong.
I'll likely struggle on regardless with most modern titles released in the last ten years working fine.
On PC we have low mid high quality. Settings, it's not like phones where it works or doesn't so tailoring games to work on SD is easy peasy,. I have used a PS4 pad on phone, it wasn't easy or a joy.

 

[dayne878]

That's good to see, but really I will choose framerates over "details" any day if I'm playing on the SD. On my PC, of course I want the best detail/framerate ratio, but if I'm playing on a handheld device I sort of inherently know there are going to be concessions. Just the 800p resolution alone is a compromise, but with such a relatively small screen it's OK.

I'm still up in the air as to whether or not I'll buy this. I have a phone clip and Xbox One controller I've used in the past to stream games to my iPhone, but it's never really satisfied me since I was literally playing downstairs and all I had to do was walk upstairs to play on desktop. Same thing with holding the laptop on my lap and playing. I don't go enough places out of the house to really justify bringing a SD, and if I do go somewhere I have my phone (and I don't bring the clip or controller then either).

I went through similar with the Switch. I would sometimes play it on the couch while spending time with my family (like the kids or wife are watching shows and I'm half-listening as I play), but what I found there is I grew bored of the Switch games. So I'm debating whether or not I think the Steam Deck would change my mind about playing PC games on a handheld. As for retro gaming, I've tried that too and grew bored of the antiquated graphics, so I don't know.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Used a steam controller, I have, your wrong.
I'll likely struggle on regardless with most modern titles released in the last ten years working fine.
On PC we have low mid high quality. Settings, it's not like phones where it works or doesn't so tailoring games to work on SD is easy peasy,. I have used a PS4 pad on phone, it wasn't easy or a joy.

It is not only the controls, but UI. Especially on small sized screen like that... You barely could see that press E often with certain games.... let it be mapped as a control on joystick.

My point is, that large amount of x86 titles won't really be that joy to play. I've tried to stream some using the in build remote play and PS4 joystick... it actually would look as close you can get with the deck. Small text, details UI like maps... it is only the controls. The hurdle is the same is in phone games, it needs some work more.

 

[Diverge]

I'm not even gonna play games on mine. Will be using it as a very portable Windows PC for running VCDS

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It is not only the controls, but UI. Especially on small sized screen like that... You barely could see that press E often with certain games.... let it be mapped as a control on joystick.

My point is, that large amount of x86 titles won't really be that joy to play. I've tried to stream some using the in build remote play and PS4 joystick... it actually would look as close you can get with the deck. Small text, details UI like maps... it is only the controls. The hurdle is the same is in phone games, it needs some work more.

Perhaps, none the less doom , TR , dirt, horizon zero dawn , cyberpunk all play so I'll just have to struggle on I suppose until someone invents a portable device with a 3foot screen.

First world problems eh ,damnnnn.

 

[Tartaros]

It is not only the controls, but UI. Especially on small sized screen like that... You barely could see that press E often with certain games.... let it be mapped as a control on joystick.

Tons of games on the Switch have not adapted UIs for portable mode, even heavy text and menu games from Nintendo like Fire Emblem. It's not a big of a deal.

Perhaps, none the less doom , TR , dirt, horizon zero dawn , cyberpunk all play so I'll just have to struggle on I suppose until someone invents a portable device with a 3foot screen.

Doom and Doom Eternal are playable fine on Switch, though fps tank hard at 30 max. The Crysis 3 port is better than the PS3 version.

There have been FPS gaming on handhelds since the Ngage, it's not unknown territory. There are tons of FPS for Switch and they play as good as playing on a controller.

 

[Valantar]

It seems you like the idea of your own truth, and deny the obvious that nobody else bats an eye about your issues you experience.

Eh ... something, something, pot, kettle, black? Was I the one who started attacking my opponents and belittling them when they argued against me? Who here has shown the most willful disregard for other people's opinions? If I were you, I'd start with taking a look in the mirror. I've described some inherent issues with phone gaming. Whether these are major issues or not is a matter of opinion, but that they exist is undeniable. The SD is certainly a major step up from phones in ergonomics, given that it has something besides on-screen controls, and a noticeably bigger screen.

Pretty much the game has to be tailored for the deck and phone and they fall in to the same bracket. You won't be playing keyboard tailored games on the Deck, simply because of the controls and UI. Press E to continue, eh?

So now you're switching up your argument from "why the hate for phone gaming?" to "UI problems will kill the Steam Deck"? It's hardly ideal, but for games that completely lack gamepad support and need more than the 14+ buttons available for mapping (d-pad, abxy, shoulder buttons/triggers, analog stick presses (+touchpad input)), Valve have had a passable virtual keyboard for years. Is it ideal? Obviously not. But there aren't that many games that will need more than 12 buttons either. The analog sticks let you avoid wasting buttons for WASD, so then you can have for example Tab, Shift, Ctrl, Q, E, R, F, G, 1, 2, 3, 4 and left/right click mapped. That's sufficient for most games. Clearly not all, but nobody has said that this will be a perfect experience in every single game ever made. That doesn't take away from the fact that this will be able to run the vast majority of games just fine.

It is not only the controls, but UI. Especially on small sized screen like that... You barely could see that press E often with certain games.... let it be mapped as a control on joystick.

My point is, that large amount of x86 titles won't really be that joy to play. I've tried to stream some using the in build remote play and PS4 joystick... it actually would look as close you can get with the deck. Small text, details UI like maps... it is only the controls. The hurdle is the same is in phone games, it needs some work more.

That's where the low resolution of the screen will really shine - rendering at a lower resolution typically means UI elements are bigger overall (especially on poorly maintained older titles, where this problem is the biggest), and will be more legible. If you're streaming your games, they are likely rendering at 1080p or above (or are using DRS with a 1080p UI resolution if it's console streaming) - and a 1080p UI scaled down to a 7" 800p screen will probably be near illegible, yes, especially one that expects to be rendered at native resolution and at PC-like monitor sizes and pixel densities (those same games are typically unplayable if you try to play them on a modern high DPI display as well). But rendered at a native 800p? It's likely going to be fine. Perfect? Obviously not. But again, perfect isn't the goal here. The point is to be able to play on the go, on the couch, on the bus, whereever, in a way that a phone simply won't let you do. And a display large enough for a perfect UI in those games isn't going to be doable in a handheld.

As for your streaming experience - was that on a phone? Remember, a 7" 16:10 display is significantly larger than the common 6.x" ~19:9 phone displays, by a pretty significant margin. Take the Galaxy S21 Ultra - a very large phone with a 6.8" display - the Steam Deck with a 7" 16:10 screen has 26,5% more screen area. Compared to something more sensibly sized like the iPhone 13, the advantage is 54,8%. Couple that with the much, much higher pixel density of the phones, and you have a recipe for a very poor UX on the phones, and a much better one on the SD. And, of course, you won't be obscuring the sreen with on-screen controls. Does that mean the SD will be problem free? Obviously not. But it has a much greater chance at being workable.