Streaming outdoor in ice cold temperatures. Any advices?

[winterwonderland]

So. I will be doing a couple of streams outdoor this winter for experimental purposes. I live in a place in north of europe where the winter temperatures often go down to about -30C (-22F), so i understand that this will be quite the...challenge, but it sounds way too interesting, intriguing and unique to not try it.

I have gone through many other preparations for the streams when it comes to the mental and physical aspects, but now i have come to the PC itself. For that, i have a few points that i am uncertain about:
1: How can i keep the PC somewhat....warm in those temperatures..? What can happen if the PC will become TOO cold? How long can i stay outdoor before PC-problems can start...appearing?
2: Should i wrap the cables in any specific material?
3: What about the screen itself? Should i wrap that in something special, or?

If you have any other advices, let me know. Thanks.

 

[Bill_Bright]

RF does not care how cold it is so that is not an issue.

In most cases, the electronics does not care about the cold either. But it does not like rapid and extreme changes in temperature. And certainly it does not like extreme moisture and that is my concern here too, or rather, condensation is my worry. Condensation easily forms when there is change in temperature. This is why it is necessary to let electronics slowly warm up to room temperatures before applying power when bringing it inside from the cold.

What are you streaming? If music, I might suggest some wireless outdoor speakers instead that you can stream to.

I personally would recommend NOT using a PC outdoors in this scenario but instead, look into buying a "ruggedized" notebook that is designed to operate in such harsh, outdoor conditions.

 

[nuggdoctor]

try to make some for of test bench setup for your components. then treat everything like you would if you were doing an ln2/liquid nitrogen overclock. take those same precautions and you should be ok. Also try to let the pc sit in the cold temps for a full 3 or 4 hours before using it. the shock from a 65 degree f room to that extreme is going to kill your pc.

 

[purecain]

Your going to have to grease up the whole board, as when the GPU heats up your going to have water dripping everywhere. Prepare for this by keeping loads of paper towels at the ready.
Take the grease out with you and anywhere you see moisture forming, you should stop grease that area and start again. Hopefully you can get it so that the water just runs straight off and out of the pc.
Win or fail, it is a good idea. Have fun I'm sure you will get plenty of views!!!!!

 

[nuggdoctor]

Your going to have to grease up the whole board, as when the GPU heats up your going to have water dripping everywhere. Prepare for this by keeping loads of paper towels at the ready.
Take the grease out with you and anywhere you see moisture forming, you should stop grease that area and start again. Hopefully you can get it so that the water just runs straight off and out of the pc.
Win or fail, it is a good idea. Have fun I'm sure you will get plenty of views!!!!!

I wanna know how it turns out. also couldnt agree with you more. paper towels will make or break this experiment.

 

[hat]

Isn't the problem with condensation mostly with using extreme cooling solutions that cool well below ambient temperature? If his PC is literally outside where the ambient temperature is already low as shit, I can't see much of a problem.

 

[purecain]

This is what makes the experiment and ultimately the YouTube video interesting. Non of us are certain of the out come!!!

It will be educational!!!

 

[Bill_Bright]

Your going to have to grease up the whole board, as when the GPU heats up your going to have water dripping everywhere.

I agree with hat. Water is not going to be dripping anywhere when the computer is out in the cold. The problem will be when the computer goes back inside. Very cold air is so dense, it can't hold water. That's how water is squeezed out of clouds and rain forms.

I think we need more information. Is this computer going to be outdoors? Or out in an unheated garage, for example? In any case, It sure sounds a PC is the wrong tool for the job here.

 

[winterwonderland]

Thanks for the response, fellas.

So. I have a laptop that i have had outdoor in such cold, and it worked out really nicely. I just haven't tried having a PC outdoor at that kind of cold temperature, so i wanna try out that.

And yes, this have never done before, so it would be an interesting things for you lot who are actually curious about this. Maybe there's a thing or two to pick up from this.

I will also have a live temperature showing on my stream, both for the PC and the outdoor temp., so hopefully that will be of some help.

I was thinking about placing the PC inside a box of some sort, so it protects from wind/snowfall. At least a little. If that doesn't work, i will have to stretch some cables and put the PC just inside the closet in the main house (and then stretch cables through the closet window), somehow. The closet is right by the main entrance, so that room is supposed to be cold throughout the year for various reasons (meat drying, freezer stuff etc.)

Regarding the water issue when i bring back the PC indoor... I will not be using that PC for at least weeks, because i have my main PC indoor. I will wipe off any water etc. when the PC is back to "normal" temperature (not plugged into anything, ofc).

But yeah, interesting inputs. Thanks for that, you lot!

 

[Bill_Bright]

I personally don't see this as a good idea. PCs just aren't designed to used outdoors. That's why ruggedized notebooks exist. So my advise is, don't do it.

 

[300BaudBob]

If you do: an old photographers trick is to seal your equipment in a plastic bag before bringing it back indoors and let it warm up before opening to reduce condensation problems.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

So. I will be doing a couple of streams outdoor this winter for experimental purposes. I live in a place in north of europe where the winter temperatures often go down to about -30C (-22F), so i understand that this will be quite the...challenge, but it sounds way too interesting, intriguing and unique to not try it.

I have gone through many other preparations for the streams when it comes to the mental and physical aspects, but now i have come to the PC itself. For that, i have a few points that i am uncertain about:
1: How can i keep the PC somewhat....warm in those temperatures..? What can happen if the PC will become TOO cold? How long can i stay outdoor before PC-problems can start...appearing?
2: Should i wrap the cables in any specific material?
3: What about the screen itself? Should i wrap that in something special, or?

If you have any other advices, let me know. Thanks.

You are not going to hurt a pc at -30 though you could shorten the life of an nvme SSD attached marginally, just keep it dry and all the power and cables dry and you should be fine.
I've often had open window bench night , and I'm only in Manchester but still wear layers and gloves.

 

[Slaughtahouse]

I was browsing a page on this website when I saw this discussion on the side. So I just signed up just for this comment. Too nerdy not to respond... I've been building working with PC's for quite a while and I also studied building science many years ago. Why does this matter?

Well, condensation doesn't just "form" with weather changes. It's actually a measurable and predictable science. There may be a better way to describe the below but I'll do the best I can from my architectural / construction background.

Think of warm air as a sponge.

1. When air or " the sponge" is warmer, it can hold more water (up to a certain limit...).
2. When it, "the sponge" meets a cold surface, it will condense water onto said, cold surface. Imagine the sponge is squeezing some, or all of the excess water.

So in this case, warm, moisture latent air, is required for condensation to occur. If your PC is outside, it won't just fill with water.

Ask yourself this: When its a cold winter day... and you're inside of your house or you're warming up your car, where is the condensation? On the inside or outside pane of glass?

How do you know at what temperature does warm, moisture latent air will condense? Well, its a bit complicated and for an in-depth understanding, you'll have to read up on dew points, relative humidity, psychrometric charts.

Someone with more of a background on this topic can chime in to correct the details or provide more context.

If you don't believe me, I tried running my PC outside many years ago. I briefly archived my results and posted on Overclock (where I usually geek out). Granted it was a long time ago and I only did it for a few hours. But I recall how well it was running and how much further testing I should have done. However, I ran my cables through a window and it would be very inefficient in the long term for the heating.

I can't share the link here as it's pending moderation, probably because I am a new member but in short, it worked at temps during load were around 20-30C when it was about -10c outdoors.

Where you have to be mindful when it is warmer outside after being quite cool. Or, when you bring your PC in, expect condensation and be prepared to let it dry. I unplugged my hardware and ran a fan in front of it, side panel open for about 24 hours before booting again. Just to be safe.

Also, be aware of many other factors including precipitation etc. Also, I am unsure how mechanical drives will fair after extensive usage. If the drive has air inside the enclosure, it could be possible for condensation to form within (theoretically) but I think recent drives are filled with Helium. Correct me if I am wrong...

TL;DR: Is it a risk? Yes. As the comment from Bill stated above, PC's are not designed for outdoor usage. Probably other long term risks, including corrosion. This is when you may want to grease your computer for longevity but I have no experience with greasing a computer XD.

 

[Steevo]

A lot of really bad ideas here so far. I live in Montana and we regularly go below zero, and I have done some stupid overclocks putting my PC outside in subzero temps.

#1 Only mechanical hard drives don't like the extreme cold.
#2 Fans may not like the cold depending on their design, the grease/oil used to lubricate them may become to thick.
#3 You will NOT get condensation going from warm to cold.
#4 You WILL get condensation going from cold to warm.
#5 As long as your system is clean of most dust, you can move it from subzero to inside with little issue, I would however suggest placing it into a plastic bad for this part to limit the moisture and thus condensation.
#6 If liquid cooling make sure your coolant can survive going below zero without freezing.

 

[taz420nj]

Your going to have to grease up the whole board, as when the GPU heats up your going to have water dripping everywhere. Prepare for this by keeping loads of paper towels at the ready.
Take the grease out with you and anywhere you see moisture forming, you should stop grease that area and start again. Hopefully you can get it so that the water just runs straight off and out of the pc.
Win or fail, it is a good idea. Have fun I'm sure you will get plenty of views!!!!!

This only happens when water blocks are refrigerated below the dewpoint (example by running a glycol loop outdoors in cold climate or into a freezer) or you use a phase change or cryo cooling system with the rest of the computer at ambient temperature and RH - and even then the condensation is from the cooling system parts being cold surfaces in a warm moist environment, not from the actual thermal coupling or components. If the entire computer is in the cold environment, you won't get any liquid condensation. The worst you'd have is some frost, but at -22F the water carrying capacity of air is nearly zero (IIRC air becomes completely dessicated around -35F).

LCDs don't like cold though. Their response slows down drastically in cold weather, and I believe there is a temperature where they actually "freeze". CCFL backlights will also not get as bright in cold weather. OLED displays are not affected by cold. Not sure if you're planning on using a laptop, but a "headless" box that is controlled via RDP/VNC would be preferable to having a display outside.

 

[nuggdoctor]

Isn't the problem with condensation mostly with using extreme cooling solutions that cool well below ambient temperature? If his PC is literally outside where the ambient temperature is already low as shit, I can't see much of a problem.

youre forgetting that the gpu and cpu will still create heat. which WILL cause condensation. not big puddles like people are thinking. but it will be enough condensation that it COULD short out if he doesnt keep an eye on it. example. go outside when its -22 and then start your car. youll have condensation everywhere. on the windows, dash, etc. why? because you added heat. basically the same type of ambient heat he will add with the gpu and cpu.

Will Cold Damage Your Computer?

Max from Tiny Green PC explains the key factors to take into account when specifying a computer for applications below 0C!

www.tinygreenpc.com

 

[taz420nj]

youre forgetting that the gpu and cpu will still create heat. which WILL cause condensation. not big puddles like people are thinking. but it will be enough condensation that it COULD short out if he doesnt keep an eye on it. example. go outside when its -22 and then start your car. youll have condensation everywhere. on the windows, dash, etc. why? because you added heat. basically the same type of ambient heat he will add with the gpu and cpu.

Will Cold Damage Your Computer?

Max from Tiny Green PC explains the key factors to take into account when specifying a computer for applications below 0C!

www.tinygreenpc.com

Wrong. Condensation - whether it be from your breath, car exhaust, or whatever is due to moisture NOT just heat. Warm components DO NOT "generate" moisture, therefore warm components in a cold environment CAN NOT generate condensation. How does your car's rear defogger work? By simply warming up the glass, because moisture can not condense on a surface warmer than the air.. The front defogger not only warms the glass, but it also runs the air conditioner to dry out the air inside the cabin. If you were to have a fart cushion full of 100 degree dessicated air and you squeezed it outside on a 0 degree day, there would be no "fog cloud", because there is no moisture in the warm air to condense. You get a cloud when you breathe outside because lung air is very moist. You get a cloud out the tailpipe of your car because water is a combustion byproduct.

 

[nuggdoctor]

PCs in COLD Temperatures

Solution: Hy, PorkyP!Last year I've faced the same trouble, in our unloading area during the normal operation the temperature is about -10°C. The staff usually

community.spiceworks.com

How Cold Weather Affects Electronics - Global Electronic Services

We have spent a lot of time talking about how heat can lead to failure in your electronics but rarely is cold ever mentioned. Keeping your electronics cool is normally a good thing, and a lot of effort is spent doing just that – through fans, heatsinks and air conditioning. But if the weather […]

gesrepair.com

 

[sneekypeet]

I agree with steevo here as I have also used the winter to help overclock. Won a competition at the raptor pit forums a decade ago using this method.

Only change was I ran indoors with windows open and box fans blasting. Had a core2duo running at - 5 idle, and when done running benches, I shut the PC down, closed up shop and waited till the next afternoon to reboot. No issues from GPU heat and the like, everything runs so much cooler at negative ambient and the low humidity associated with that temperature range.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I was gonna suggest finding a large box to shove the PC inside to limit exposure to the wind, a box inside a box could act as limited insulation and maybe even keep it dry enough.

 

[nuggdoctor]

Electronics in cold weather |

www.epanorama.net

 

[taz420nj]

PCs in COLD Temperatures

Solution: Hy, PorkyP!Last year I've faced the same trouble, in our unloading area during the normal operation the temperature is about -10°C. The staff usually

community.spiceworks.com

How Cold Weather Affects Electronics - Global Electronic Services

We have spent a lot of time talking about how heat can lead to failure in your electronics but rarely is cold ever mentioned. Keeping your electronics cool is normally a good thing, and a lot of effort is spent doing just that – through fans, heatsinks and air conditioning. But if the weather […]

gesrepair.com

Yes you posted those already. I quoted them in the reply that explains why they're wrong. I, unlike whoever wrote them, did not fail physics, because I know that moisture can not condense on a surface that is warmer than the air.

 

[newtekie1]

Your going to have to grease up the whole board, as when the GPU heats up your going to have water dripping everywhere. Prepare for this by keeping loads of paper towels at the ready.
Take the grease out with you and anywhere you see moisture forming, you should stop grease that area and start again. Hopefully you can get it so that the water just runs straight off and out of the pc.

This is all entirely backwards. Condensation forms when the PC parts are colder than the air around them. That will never happen in this scenario unless the cold computer is physically moved from the cold outside to the warm inside. But simply running a computer in cold air is not going to cause condensation on the computer parts.

 

[Bill_Bright]

That will never happen in this scenario

But simply running a computer in cold air is not going to cause condensation on the computer parts.

Not sure I agree. For one, what scenario? The OP has not really fully defined the scenario yet. The environment, yes. But we know little about the computer itself.

Unless there is a lot of cold air flowing through the inside of the computer case (and PSU case too), it is going to warm up considerably inside there once the CPU and GPU, RAM, drives, etc. start heating up. That could result in some condensation forming. If there is a lot of cold air constantly flowing, then I probably would not be concerned with condensation.

 

[purecain]

OK well when he streams this test then we will know wont we.