Telegram privacy question

[Crusti]

Some media reported that Telegram leaks IP addresses when users do voice calls.
They tried to prove that such thing is happening to desktop version only and that they're going to improve it, but I wouldn't be so sure.
It's not the first time when such news appear proving that it is not so private and secured as described. They don't even provide all the users with encrypted secret chat as it is available for iOS only.

What's your thoughts? Is Telegram still worth using or it's time to say good-bye and switch to something else and more secured?

 

[MatGrow]

There is no need to stuck using only this one messenger.
For sure we have too many contacts we communicate using Telegram.
What about to change it and start using something more secured?

 

[RCoon]

Interesting coincedence, two people using VPNs posting extremely generic stuff.

 

[Crusti]

There is no need to stuck using only this one messenger.
For sure we have too many contacts we communicate using Telegram.
What about to change it and start using something more secured?

Some people have 3 messengers installed on their devices as their friends use different ones. I can't understand that.
I used Telegram before, but now I'm stuck with the question what should I do next as I don't want to lose all my information.
The question is what are the best encrypted messengers to switch to?

 

[DRDNA]

Some people have 3 messengers installed on their devices as their friends use different ones. I can't understand that.
I used Telegram before, but now I'm stuck with the question what should I do next as I don't want to lose all my information.
The question is what are the best encrypted messengers to switch to?

while I can't say one way or another what is better or even more secure; there are other options such as Google's Gmail or Microsoft's Skype.... I can say this though, there are NONE left that are just doing this for free, now days its about the gleaning of information used for mostly advertisements. Also as you both already seem to know is that using a VPN can also help a bit with security but even then the VPN vendors usually do the same thing unless they call out otherwise. Also worth a mention is that the Gmail can also send SMS messages to cell phones which i find to be very convenient. Good luck in the pursuit of security and flexibility!

 

[Crusti]

while I can't say one way or another what is better or even more secure; there are other options such as Google's Gmail or Microsoft's Skype.... I can say this though, there are NONE left that are just doing this for free, now days its about the gleaning of information used for mostly advertisements. Also as you both already seem to know is that using a VPN can also help a bit with security but even then the VPN vendors usually do the same thing unless they call out otherwise. Also worth a mention is that the Gmail can also send SMS messages to cell phones which i find to be very convenient. Good luck in the pursuit of security and flexibility!

I agree that most of services now collect our data in order to place appropriate ads on our pages and earn money.
But I think that if a messenger announces itself as a private one - it should keep it's words.
I've heard that some blockchain based and end-to-end encrypted messenger start to appear, so I believe the day will come when we could be absolutely safe.

 

[RCoon]

Blockchain is not the solution to everything. Nor is it a solution to anything, really...

 

[Crusti]

Blockchain is not the solution to everything. Nor is it a solution to anything, really...

I thought that it's well encrypted.. Um.. As some of them are not based on the server and so on.
Am I wrong?

 

[MatGrow]

So I personally use Signal.
I think it's the most secured messenger.

 

[Crusti]

So I personally use Signal.
I think it's the most secured messenger.

Signal is almost the same as Telegram is. The only difference is that it uses end-to-end encryption.
But it still has an access to your IP address and location and it stores your data on the server.

 

[MatGrow]

Signal is almost the same as Telegram is. The only difference is that it uses end-to-end encryption.
But it still has an access to your IP address and location and it stores your data on the server.

Ok then, what's your recommendation?

 

[Crusti]

Ok then, what's your recommendation?

It depends on your needs mostly.
If you use messenger for chatting with friends only - then Signal will be quite enough for you.
If you use it for your work or for some things that should stay private - there's a range of encrypted messengers that don't store your messages like Dust, Adamant, e-Chat and so on.
It also depends on functions you need. So the choice is up to you only.

 

[MatGrow]

It depends on your needs mostly.
If you use messenger for chatting with friends only - then Signal will be quite enough for you.
If you use it for your work or for some things that should stay private - there's a range of encrypted messengers that don't store your messages like Dust, Adamant, e-Chat and so on.
It also depends on functions you need. So the choice is up to you only.

I don't mind if a messenger will be secured enough and have user-friendly interface.
The most important thing is to make sure this app is popular among people I need to talk to using it.
Otherwise, how can I use it if people I want to communicate with do not use this messenger?
Recently I found out that new messenger was produced. It's called Stealthy.
Heard of it?

 

[Crusti]

I even downloaded it and tried to install but had quite a lot problems with that. So I deleted it the next minute.
By the way, I've mentioned a very funny thing - it's logo looks very similar to Telegam's And it's almost the same bad..

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

best solution is not to use them at all.

 

[Crusti]

best solution is not to use them at all.

By the way, I don't use any social networks, but I need messenger as my company has a work chat there.
Communication through email is out of date already. So what can be a way out in such situation?

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

look into Discord.

 

[Crusti]

look into Discord.

I've checked it and saw many complaints about developers permissiveness and its rate is only 3 that doesn't seem very reliable..

 

[Vayra86]

I agree that most of services now collect our data in order to place appropriate ads on our pages and earn money.
But I think that if a messenger announces itself as a private one - it should keep it's words.
I've heard that some blockchain based and end-to-end encrypted messenger start to appear, so I believe the day will come when we could be absolutely safe.

Blockchain is only a good tool for data reliability/integrity, not for its security. You can't hack a blockchain, but reading the information out of it is easy - and that's on purpose, because every participant is capable of verifying it. That is precisely what you DON'T want when it comes to secure end-to-end encryption. You want that data to stay out of sight, and data that is out of sight, is not reliable.

You can compare it with the mailman reading your letters to make sure its really meant for you and that it has the exact information you need. That's what blockchain really is.

Blockchain therefore is a fantastic solution for distribution chains, who want to verify a process every step of the way. For most other things its just a nice buzzword that's predicted to increase sales, but really has no relation the service on offer. Blockchain based end to end encryption is almost a complete contradiction.

 

[Crusti]

Blockchain is only a good tool for data reliability/integrity, not for its security. You can't hack a blockchain, but reading the information out of it is easy - and that's on purpose, because every participant is capable of verifying it. That is precisely what you DON'T want when it comes to secure end-to-end encryption. You want that data to stay out of sight, and data that is out of sight, is not reliable.

You can compare it with the mailman reading your letters to make sure its really meant for you and that it has the exact information you need. That's what blockchain really is.

Blockchain therefore is a fantastic solution for distribution chains, who want to verify a process every step of the way. For most other things its just a nice buzzword that's predicted to increase sales, but really has no relation the service on offer. Blockchain based end to end encryption is almost a complete contradiction.

So you mean it's better to rely on end-to-end encryption and forget about blockchain?
I want to find the most secure messenger and it's hard to choose as there are many of them already.

 

[Vayra86]

So you mean it's better to rely on end-to-end encryption and forget about blockchain?
I want to find the most secure messenger and it's hard to choose as there are many of them already.

The most secure messenger is a physical letter, because there is law in place that prevents the mailman from opening it.

For digital communication, those laws are either not present or being broken down. What's safe today can be unsafe tomorrow. But yes, forget about blockchain, it adds nothing to this search.

End to end encryption is what is, and until it is audited by an independent party you cannot rely on anything. Whatsapp for example was long deemed safe but there are question marks there now too. And rightly so, since Facebook took over and the old CEO is gone.

I think its wise to accept that perfect security of private data means you need to take it offline. Data is always kept somewhere in the cloud or on a server, so all you really have is 'trust' in a service provider. Nothing more.

 

[Crusti]

The most secure messenger is a physical letter, because there is law in place that prevents the mailman from opening it.

For digital communication, those laws are either not present or being broken down. What's safe today can be unsafe tomorrow. But yes, forget about blockchain, it adds nothing to this search.

End to end encryption is what is, and until it is audited by an independent party you cannot rely on anything. Whatsapp for example was long deemed safe but there are question marks there now too. And rightly so, since Facebook took over and the old CEO is gone.

I think its wise to accept that perfect security of private data means you need to take it offline. Data is always kept somewhere in the cloud or on a server, so all you really have is 'trust' in a service provider. Nothing more.

I'm afraid that using letters in order to communicate will take much time
As for server and cloud storage I found some messengers that don't store any information and Dust for example erases it in 24 hours. Maybe that's a kind of way out..

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

I've checked it and saw many complaints about developers permissiveness and its rate is only 3 that doesn't seem very reliable..

dont put so much weight into those complaints, actually try it, a lot of those complaints about products are usually by those with an ax to grind.

 

[R-T-B]

dont put so much weight into those complaints, actually try it, a lot of those complaints about products are usually by those with an ax to grind.

Discord does have downtime on occasion. But it is quick to correct.

Not sure how it ranks on a privacy centered perspective. I don't use chat clients much at all if privacy is a concern.

 

[Vayra86]

I'm afraid that using letters in order to communicate will take much time
As for server and cloud storage I found some messengers that don't store any information and Dust for example erases it in 24 hours. Maybe that's a kind of way out..

Explain this to me then: how can a service provider, provide you with a service if the data to do so, is not present on its servers? Yes, if its temporary storage, then you would have to believe it is actually temporary but another possibility is just that data is in *your* temporary storage and archived after 24 hours. It *could* be erased, but again, this is 100% and only about how much you trust a service provider. You can never get a guarantee, and if you are really hellbent on security of data, that makes it a 'no go'...

Even a service such as Snapchat is likely to have all that data present somewhere. Imagine the stuff they can capture when people live with the illusion that what they send is only there 'temporarily'... even though any idiot can screengrab whatever gets sent...

So again - once you put something up in the cloud, there is always a risk involved. When you consider that, does it really matter what you use? There is realistically no difference between service providers: with each and every single one, its all about how much you trust it.