Temperatures worse on new pc case than on previous no-name with opened side

[spectatorx]

Recently i have purchased new pc case, to be specific silentium pc Armis AR7 TG RGB which comes with 3 fans already installed. Also added on top of it set of three, also silentium pc, Sigma HP Corona RGB fans.

Setup: two front fans are intake, back one is outake and same goes for 3 top fans.

In this configuration both, gpu (up to 80 degrees, used to be up to 72 degrees) and cpu, are way hotter and especially louder than before. Before this case i had some no-name crap in which i kept side opened. GPU was quiet and now is loud under load, for example during gaming. Did i do some mistake in setting up airflow? Heat around gpu area can be felt even on side glass panel from outside when i am touching it with hand.

 

[eidairaman1]

I'd send the case back for the SG1.

https://www.silentiumpc.com/en/product/signum-sg1/

I'd go for My Case or the CM HAF over anything out now tbf.

Side slits on your case are the only means for airflow, plus their fans may not be that good.

 

[cucker tarlson]

cause closed case can't compare to open case when you're using air cooling on gpu and cpu.both in temps and quietness.a gpu with the side open will operate at lower temps and lower rpm and at the same time you don't need that many fans,just one exhaust operating at 800rpm is enough.in closed cases you've got gpu fans spinning faster cause heat gets trapped plus you need 3-4 fans running at 1000rpm or more.
you're running a r9 380,which is a 200w card,with a dual fan gigabyte cooler that seems is gonna be pretty loud once it has to hit higher rpm.
get ss rl06 pro instead if you're looking for a good case temps-wise at good price.

 

[phanbuey]

i think a shoe box with the top off would cool better than most cases closed, so no real surprise there.

Silent cases are usually crap for gaming rigs at full load for this exact reason... they bake the components so they heat up and make more noise than if you just had them breathing normally to begin with.

 

[spectatorx]

Well, now i'm literally considering coming back to previous no-name with opened side as difference is that big to me. Previously under load gpu was barely noticeably audible, now it works like a vacuum in comparison.

I think i'm not going to spend more than 30 euros on computer case, ever.

cause closed case can't compare to open case when you're using air cooling on gpu and cpu.both in temps and quietness.a gpu with the side open will operate at lower temps and lower rpm and at the same time you don't need that many fans,just one exhaust operating at 800rpm is enough.in closed cases you've got gpu fans spinning faster cause heat gets trapped plus you need 3-4 fans running at 1000rpm or more.
you're running a r9 380,which is a 200w card,with a dual fan gigabyte cooler that seems is gonna be pretty loud once it has to hit higher rpm.
get ss rl06 pro instead if you're looking for a good case temps-wise at good price.

GPU package, according to hwinfo, uses up to 130W, way far from 200W, i've never seen that kind of value on this gpu.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

The ATX layout came out in 1995 with the Pentium 60 Hz! There really has been no change since then other than the PSU moving to the bottom of the case with the Antec 900. Corsair tried to offer a change with the 600C/Q, but it failed. The problem with the ATX layout, with fans at the front, top and back, is that you end up with a dead air area by the GPU(s), especially so with axial flow coolers. Several case manufacturers have added vents to the area "above" the expansion slots, (The area to the right in this image.)

but this is also where vertical GPU mounts are put, such as the OP's case.

I would not be surprised if your GPU temps went down if you greatly reduced the speed of the fans on the top - allow the air to exit where it can on its own. With 4 fans blowing out and 2 fans blowing in, you've created a vacuum in the case.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Recently i have purchased new pc case, to be specific silentium pc Armis AR7 TG RGB which comes with 3 fans already installed. Also added on top of it set of three, also silentium pc, Sigma HP Corona RGB fans.

Setup: two front fans are intake, back one is outake and same goes for 3 top fans.

In this configuration both, gpu (up to 80 degrees, used to be up to 72 degrees) and cpu, are way hotter and especially louder than before. Before this case i had some no-name crap in which i kept side opened. GPU was quiet and now is loud under load, for example during gaming. Did i do some mistake in setting up airflow? Heat around gpu area can be felt even on side glass panel from outside when i am touching it with hand.

As some say open air is best but.

By the sound of it you have 2 intake fans providing air to four outlet fan's, you could be driving the air pressure down in the case with that, i always thought keeping roughly equal or possitive pressure is best, it is not making up for an open side panel though since the case isn't Your Room sized.

 

[phanbuey]

GPU package, according to hwinfo, uses up to 130W, way far from 200W, i've never seen that kind of value on this gpu.

200W is usually total board power, i think 250W total board is max for the big boy cards. The entire card, with the mem chips, vrms, etc can push out 200W of heat (and dump it in your case).

Still... 130W is a massive amount of heat. That's roughly the pull of a stock 9900k and those things are hot as balls. Combine a consistent 130W of heat with teeny low profile cooler you find on most cards and those fans are gonna make some noise. That access to fresh air you had before makes a yuge difference.

 

[trog100]

i dont run open side but i do run two case side fans.. the temps are pretty much the same side on or off.. i used to run a pair of 980ti room heaters.. hence my side fans..

trog

 

[spectatorx]

I think i would take a bit different approach and just ask you, nice people of internet, how would you manage airflow in this case with 6 fans in total available? Also i forgot to mention one important thing, the psu. Corsair HX850 is a semi-passive psu which starts to spin its own fan when psu is loaded in at least 40%. With 2700x and r9 380, 3 hdds, one soundcard i do not exceed 200W even in gaming so fan almost never spins. 200W is far from that 40% line and i think i will never reach it with this particular configuration. Also i have an internal dvd writer, probably soon i will replace it with blu-ray writer, definitely this case has and will have one optical drive as i'm still using from time to time CDs and DVDs, soon also BDs.

 

[John Naylor]

Think about what you have created .... 4 fans going out ...2 fans, with restricted air flow due to filters blowing in. You have way way more air being expelled from the case... since in must = out, where is that extra air coming in ? Answer to rhetorical question ... you have a flood of hot air coming in thru the vertical grille and the vented slot covers. Why hot ? A significant portion of your 250 watt GRX card exhaust is going out the back and being sucked right back in .... in addition, the hot exhaust from your 850 watt PSU is being sucked back in. If yu can get your hands on a fog machine or buy can of test smoke, pointing it at the back of the case will make your problem immediately apparent. Your case will fill with smoke quickly with that much of vacuum inside the case.

That case is not well setup for ventillation ... generally you want to use about 3 intake fans for every 2 exhast fans. Reconfigure the case with 3 fans in from blowing in at front and one at rear. I understabd you were probably going for that full RGB display but aesthetics and function are working against each other here. Save the other 2 fans as spares ... they are not helping you. OIn there are bottom grilles, you coul put an intake fan or 2 there. Alternately, you could mode the right side panel to add fans .... see image below which has two vertical fan mounts (one near back is for PSU)

https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=6391

You can drill the openings with a hole saw ... and buy grilles to cover.

https://mnpctech.com/pc-computer-cooling-fans-grills-custom/

But I think you will be fine with the 4 fans with not hot exhaust being sucked in ... all hot air will go out the rear fan and up thru the open grille at top. Having a fan in and fan out is redundant. If you blow air in, it will get out.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Well, now i'm literally considering coming back to previous no-name with opened side as difference is that big to me. Previously under load gpu was barely noticeably audible, now it works like a vacuum in comparison.

I think i'm not going to spend more than 30 euros on computer case, ever.



GPU package, according to hwinfo, uses up to 130W, way far from 200W, i've never seen that kind of value on this gpu.

says 190w on tpu database.
if you're using v-sync it's possible.

 

[phanbuey]

I think i would take a bit different approach and just ask you, nice people of internet, how would you manage airflow in this case with 6 fans in total available? Also i forgot to mention one important thing, the psu. Corsair HX850 is a semi-passive psu which starts to spin its own fan when psu is loaded in at least 40%. With 2700x and r9 380, 3 hdds, one soundcard i do not exceed 200W even in gaming so fan almost never spins. 200W is far from that 40% line and i think i will never reach it with this particular configuration. Also i have an internal dvd writer, probably soon i will replace it with blu-ray writer, definitely this case has and will have one optical drive as i'm still using from time to time CDs and DVDs, soon also BDs.

so for GFX temps you want negative pressure... so like a noctua A series in exhaust(s more than one if possible) and no intakes...

what that will do is force air up and out of your case and pull it through the vented (hopefully empty) PCI slots in the case. that should give you similar temps noise to no side panel on the GPU side, but you can't beat open air for cooling.

Seriously consider going open air if you can swing it (sounds like you can)...

For instance if @venturi :

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...st-powerful-god-box-in-a-miniitx-case.252663/

If he did what he did in a closed case, you would have heard about it on the news, as he burned down his entire block. Cooling something open air is exponentially more efficient unless you have a very loud wind tunnel setup.

 

[delshay]

i dont run open side but i do run two case side fans.. the temps are pretty much the same side on or off.. i used to run a pair of 980ti room heaters.. hence my side fans..

trog

Thank you

Can you please show photo as this would be more evidence to prove what I was saying about "downdraft coolers", ie they need vented slots on the side panel to get the best out of them. The downdraft cooler fan needs to be with-in a certain distance to the side panel air vents or you be more reliant on the in-take fans.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I think i would take a bit different approach and just ask you, nice people of internet, how would you manage airflow in this case with 6 fans in total available? Also i forgot to mention one important thing, the psu. Corsair HX850 is a semi-passive psu which starts to spin its own fan when psu is loaded in at least 40%. With 2700x and r9 380, 3 hdds, one soundcard i do not exceed 200W even in gaming so fan almost never spins. 200W is far from that 40% line and i think i will never reach it with this particular configuration. Also i have an internal dvd writer, probably soon i will replace it with blu-ray writer, definitely this case has and will have one optical drive as i'm still using from time to time CDs and DVDs, soon also BDs.

COMPROMISE, You want adequate cooling , don't fit a blu ray drive fit that third fan in the front , reduce the speed of the back fan, i ditched 5 inch drives years ago to get 3 in fans at the front on a thermaltake Kandalf Lcs. The additional cooling was worth the compromise of buying a usb3 plug in external blu ray writer, which is SUPER handy anyway for other pcs.
To me a dvd drive seldom used is like keeping your bike rack and bike on your car all week, just in case you wanna ride, it'll cause drag.

Also don't sweat bout the high temps so much ,all gpu's are meant to run hot these days in use ,same with all cpu's , like Hot upto 85(gpu) 90(intel cpu) , they're made to boost upto and hold a thermal and performance profile dependant on cooling.
and with no side panel on any system the availability of cooler fresh air would usually eclipse the same case or a better case with a panel on in thermal performance.

I think my pc is configured quite well , it runs hot all day everyday upto 80 degrees cpu and 60 Gpu ,crunching and folding and is pretty quite , but if im benching the panels come off If i mean business.

 

[trog100]

i run a down draft cooler..

Thank you

Can you please show photo as this would be more evidence to prove what I was saying about "downdraft coolers", ie they need vented slots on the side panel to get the best out of them. The downdraft cooler fan needs to be with-in a certain distance to the side panel air vents or you be more reliant on the in-take fans.

a downdraft cooler fed directly by a case side fan works well.. i believe in blowing outside air where it needs to be blown.. a couple of side fans do this job.. two side fans and one rear exhaust is all thats really needed assuming solid state drives are being used.. the snag with side fans is they mess up the pretty view.. i dont mind this but many would.. he he..

trog

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

i run a down draft cooler..


a downdraft cooler fed directly by a case side fan works well.. i believe in blowing outside air where it needs to be blown.. a couple of side fans do this job.. two side fans and one rear exhaust is all thats really needed assuming solid state drives are being used.. the snag with side fans is they mess up the pretty view.. i dont mind this but many would.. he he..

trog

They're just harder to filter well Trog, and destructive to side panels ,especially glass ones, front fans can usually be filtered better without looking cumbersome.

your not wrong though ,just having done a 200mm side fan once and a 2x120 side fan pc too, i grew to hate them due to dust buildup issues, and i did use filtering.

 

[trog100]

They're just harder to filter well Trog, and destructive to side panels ,especially glass ones, front fans can usually be filtered better without looking cumbersome.

your not wrong though ,just having done a 200mm side fan once and a 2x120 side fan pc too, i grew to hate them due to dust buildup issues, and i did use filtering.

i dont use filters.. just a good blow out every now and then..

trog

 

[spectatorx]

Thank you all for your answers, on monday i will experiment with most of the things you suggested and let know about results.

says 190w on tpu database.
if you're using v-sync it's possible.

I do not know, this is how it is on my pc, as you can see, no v-sync:

 

[Bill_Bright]

Open side does not always mean cooler. When you remove the side panel, you disrupt the the desired flow through the case. Any one who's lived in a house with a swamp cooler would know how the flow is disrupted (or even lost completely) when a door or window is opened wide.

When I recommend folks remove the side panel when troubleshooting for potential heat problems, I tell them to blast a desk fan in there too.

IMO, your fans are blowing in the right direction but you may just have too many, trying to pull the heated air out. Or perhaps they are running too fast. I would slow down the top ones. I would also see what happens if I leave only the top rear fan running. The top front fans may be extracting the cool air from the front intake fans before it has any chance to soak up some heat from the devices further back in the case.

Also, you did not say when you sampled the temps before. Was it 2 months ago in the dead of winter? What are your ambient temps? And what are your temps when the computer is idle?

 

[spectatorx]

Spent almost whole night on checking various things and setups which resulted with something fairly close to open case scenario.

For the moment i ended up with this setup: 2x front intake, 1x rear out, 2x top out, 1x ghetto mod on side for intake in cable management part of case.

I moved front fans as much as it is possible upwards, earlier lower fan was blowing with most of its surface on bottom side of case which is hdd/psu shroud, now this fan blows with its all plane into actual case, to be specific, on sound and graphics card.

Also i have removed one of top fans (from over dvd drive) and placed it in psu shroud where it blows on psu and possibly provides at least a bit of air to rest of case through two holes in psu shroud.

Two top fans moved a bit so now they are closer together and directly over cpu to suck off the hot air from cpu area.

Rear fan without significant changes.

Now gpu is almost as quiet as it was with open case, at least it is not loud as hoover anymore while gaming. Same goes for gpu temperatures, almost the same as with open case. Glass panel around gpu area is not hot anymore, it is cool but a bit warmer around cpu area on which i will work a bit more as cpu still is getting high temperatures. With this setup i also tried open case and gpu temperatures stayed the same but cpu temperatures went down by 15-20 degrees. I'm thinking about making rear fan intake and will check few other scenarios. While doing all this i also changed thermal paste on cpu.

theoneandonlymrk, no, internal optical drive stays in. I do not like external optical drives as they are not handy, at least to me. It is just another wire and hanging thing outside case and i'm trying to keep as less wires outside case as possible.

 

[eidairaman1]

This is the case I have.

Check my Signature Rig Specs.

I don't need more than 4 fans to keep cool and not noisy.

https://www.aerocool.com.tw/au/chssis/pgs-b/xpredator

plenty of ventilation

https://www.aerocool.com.tw/en/products/chassis

This is another line.

http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Lines/full-tower/

Please note the xpredator comes in x3 and x1 midtower and also HAF come in mid tower too

 

[Bill_Bright]

1x ghetto mod on side for intake in cable management part of case.

Be sure to check with this fan unplugged too. Some times side panel fans help, but I have found they sometimes disrupt the desired "flow" of cool air through the case by causing too much turbulence. I generally avoid side panel fans for that reason unless they blow into a tube that channels and directs the air directly onto the CPU or GPU (depending on its position). But the only way to see if helpful or not with your particular computer setup is to try it both ways.

I don't need more than 4 fans to keep cool and not noisy.

And my "guess" is those 4 fans don't need to be spinning at maximum RPM (and loudness) either.

 

[eidairaman1]

Be sure to check with this fan unplugged too. Some times side panel fans help, but I have found they sometimes disrupt the desired "flow" of cool air through the case by causing too much turbulence. I generally avoid side panel fans for that reason unless they blow into a tube that channels and directs the air directly onto the CPU or GPU (depending on its position). But the only way to see if helpful or not with your particular computer setup is to try it both ways.

And my "guess" is those 4 fans don't need to be spinning at maximum RPM (and loudness) either.

you are exactly right, the rheostats are set to lowest speed, the only fans that I let free roam are the CPU and GPU which hardly ever have to rev up.

I at one time had 8 fans in but could never control them using the ASUS bios, so I just took them out, really didnt notice a difference. If I need 8 Fans then I would require another rheostat bus.

 

[Vayra86]

I'm not sure what you guys all do with your fans but silence and airflow / good temps are not mutually exclusive or anything...

Airflow is not just vents, in fact it barely is, airflow is all about case fans & RPM. Pressure and temp delta will do the rest.

Open case may be more silent but if you lose your sound dampening at the same time, the end result is the same, and often worse with most GPUs because GPU gets hot anyway. You can't magically remove heat from under that shroud, the only thing that really changes is that the temp delta is a bit higher with opencase so natural convection does the job slightly better. But it will still plateau, just a few C lower than in closed case. Just accept that and adjust fan curve accordingly. Up until 75~80 C, who cares, its a matter of preference (silence or some extra (boost) performance).

Another issue with open case is dust. Dust gets trapped and it will increase temps over time, with a lot more hassle involved keeping it in good condition versus a closed panel case with filters.

Its not very difficult... get proper low RPM optimized case fans, run them at about 1000 RPM and call it a day. You're always listening to some fan noise anyway in most typical rigs, even if only your PSU. Don't get crazy and go the fan-overkill route because its pointless and has massive diminishing returns for added noise. Less is more & too little is bad.


One final note: the real deal with noise is that we are sensitive to changes in frequency. This is why you hear your HDD ramp up, but while its spinning the noise gets drowned out over time. If you aim for silence / decent airflow what you want to do is run fans at very gradual curves and near-similar RPM, or similar 'sounding' speeds. Each fan has its own frequency curve as fan speeds go up. Getting same brand/type fans is a big bonus to overall noise profile. Don't just go blindly on dB values, its not the whole picture.

Another option for fan curve management is to determine what your system idles at under a very low fanspeed, and give the curve an 'idle' and 'load' setting, with one sharp fan ramp-up moment. That way you only ever notice it when it ramps up which will be very rare in typical use.