• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

[TH] Each Bitcoin transaction uses 4,200 gallons of water, enough to fill a swimming pool, could potentially cause freshwater shortages

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f

Tom's Hardware had an interesting article today, I just read it... very interesting. Lot's of great explanation about the number was calculated, etc.

The studies also observe the bitcoin mining operation in Kazakhstan, which could face a significant freshwater shortage of 997.9 GL by 2030. This is mainly because China banned Bitcoin operations, and as a consequence, many mining operations shifted there, making the country the largest hub for Bitcoin mining.

So if you live in Kazakhstan, and you plan to have drinking water around the year 2035, you are probably fucked. Unless the UN steps in to help you. The USA seems to also have some issues with potential fresh water sources, but only if no mitigation is taken. So, will Bitcoin farms be responsible? Most likely not. lol what a joke. we could be using all that water instead for massive solar panel farms, but humans greed knows no bounds.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,407 (0.54/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
hmmm

I thought water was a renewable resource.................at least that's what I remember in school with the water cycle................but that was long ago.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
1,662 (0.93/day)
Location
Olympia, WA
System Name Sleepy Painter
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard Asus TuF Gaming X570-PLUS/WIFI
Cooling FSP Windale 6 - Passive
Memory 2x16GB F4-3600C16-16GVKC @ 16-19-21-36-58-1T
Video Card(s) MSI RX580 8GB
Storage 2x Samsung PM963 960GB nVME RAID0, Crucial BX500 1TB SATA, WD Blue 3D 2TB SATA
Display(s) Microboard 32" Curved 1080P 144hz VA w/ Freesync
Case NZXT Gamma Classic Black
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Rosewill 1KW on 240V@60hz
Mouse Logitech MX518 Legend
Keyboard Red Dragon K552
Software Windows 10 Enterprise 2019 LTSC 1809 17763.1757
Starting to love all these sensationalist articles on crypto.

"It's not REAL money" "It's not *actually* worth anything" "Look at all the XYZ resource we say it used!"

Meanwhile, in trying to attack crypto, they just prove it is indeed 'backed by hard resources'.

How much is your Dollar worth?
IDK, something something GDP?
Do you know how much it cost us all for that one buttcoin?!
IDK, like some oil and water, maybe?

:laugh:


Water shortages are a real thing, sorry to tell you.
Unironically, a "Wrong Place, Wrong Time" kinda problem.
Other than water molecules 'lost' to solar wind, etc., water is a cycle, and it's replaced by objects and debris entering our atmosphere.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,730 (0.61/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Core i7 6950X @ 4,26GHz (1,28V)
Motherboard X99 SOC Champion (BIOS F23c + bifurcation mod)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X + 2x Delta 38mm PWM (Push-Pull)
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000MHz CL16 4x8GB (@3240MHz CL12.12.12.24 CR2T @ 1,48V)
Video Card(s) Titan V (~1650MHz @ 0.77V, HBM2 1GHz, Forced P2 state [OFF])
Storage WD SN850X 2TB + Samsung EVO 2TB (SATA) + Seagate Exos X20 20TB (4Kn mode)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Motu M4 (audio interface) + ATH-A900Z + Behringer C-1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Solar panels aren't profitable enough /s

If water supply is a problem, you won't get Bitcoin mining issue (because getting water to cool serves will eat too much of margin to be profitable at one point)
Also, what does it mean water get's listed as "used" ?
It can't be processed to be drinkable again ?
They cool servers with open loop instead of closed one ?

Lastly, this raport assumes NY/US servers are the same as Kazach ones.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Oh, you are going to build a nuclear power plant for building and running desalination plant for the bitcoin operations in Kazakhstan? Very kind of you. Not sure how you plan to fund the nuclear power plant though, those people will be suffering in 2030+. The miners won't care they will just move on. haha humans are funny like that.

Solar panels aren't profitable enough.

If water supply is a problem, you won't get Bitcoin mining issue (because getting water to cool serves will eat too much of margin to be profitable at one point)
Also, what does it mean water get's listed as "used" ?
It can't be processed to be drinkable again ?
They cool servers with open loop instead of closed one ?

Lastly, this raport assumes NY/US servers are the same as Kazach ones.

By the time they move it won't matter for those people who are stuck there. You don't seem to care about the poor in this situation, a folly indeed.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,407 (0.54/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
Water shortages are a real thing, sorry to tell you.
Yep, when people drink and use more for industrial purposes than it rains that will happen. Won't stop it from raining though. And I'm surrounded by water..........well it's frozen in the form of snow and ice at the moment :)
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Solar isn't profitable? I wonder why so many houses in England (a very cloudy country) manage to have so many residential solar panels on roofs... lived there last year and saw a shocking amount, but I guess it isn't profitable, so they must be idiots.

Yep, when people drink and use more for industrial purposes than it rains that will happen. Won't stop it from raining though. And I'm surrounded by water..........well it's frozen in the form of snow and ice at the moment :)

Kazakhstan was never much heavy on that resource of water to begin with, is the difference. Fly you fools.
 
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,730 (0.61/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Core i7 6950X @ 4,26GHz (1,28V)
Motherboard X99 SOC Champion (BIOS F23c + bifurcation mod)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X + 2x Delta 38mm PWM (Push-Pull)
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000MHz CL16 4x8GB (@3240MHz CL12.12.12.24 CR2T @ 1,48V)
Video Card(s) Titan V (~1650MHz @ 0.77V, HBM2 1GHz, Forced P2 state [OFF])
Storage WD SN850X 2TB + Samsung EVO 2TB (SATA) + Seagate Exos X20 20TB (4Kn mode)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Motu M4 (audio interface) + ATH-A900Z + Behringer C-1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Solar panel comment was a sarcasm on my part (added /s to make it more visible).

I still fail to see how bitcoin mining in US and Kazachstan get's the same water usage treatment though...
Report assumes bitcoin guys will set up the same way in both locations, which to me is weird since they want highest profits, and higher price of water is an issue that needs to be solved by money from those profits.

In short : Assumptions, are a great way to make a clickbait titles.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,770 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
This is such utter nonsense, one BTC transaction does not consume one gazillion billion gallons of water for required for cooling.

If you look up the estimated consumption of one transaction is 1000W per hour, you do not need 4200 gallons of water to cool that lol, what the hell, who comes up with these ludicrous claims ?
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Solar panel comment was a sarcasm on my part (added /s to make it more visible).

I still fail to see how bitcoin mining in US and Kazachstan get's the same water usage treatment though...
Assumptions, are a great way to make a click bait titles.

No one ever said it was the same. I said the US has possible similar problems, if you read the article that is what the article shows, but the article mainly focuses on Kazakhstan and explains it in detail the calculations made to come to said conclusion.

Also, I would argue fresh water is a non-renewable resource in the sense it is too expensive to transport it in great quantities, just ask anyone whose shower time has been limited due to drought restrictions.

This is such utter nonsense, one BTC transaction does not consume one gazillion billion gallons of water for required for cooling.

If you look up the estimated consumption of one transaction is 1000W per hour, you do not need 4200 gallons of water to cool that lol, what the hell, who comes up with these ludicrous claims ?

read the article:

How Is the Freshwater Consumption Calculated?

The study includes both direct and indirect water footprints, both of which are from freshwater sources. These data centers consume water for cooling systems and air humidification to maintain these servers. Other sources of freshwater consumption are from its usage for electricity production required to keep these servers active. The consumption of electricity is constant, and so is the use of water.

From this observation, it is then calculated that 4,227 gallons of fresh water is used during every transaction.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,622 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
Bitcoin and crypto in general is a dying industry and less and less onchain transactions are happening in general.

I don't see this being a longterm issue.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,770 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
read the article:
Maybe you should read it again, they quote that the water is needed for cooling and electricity.

First of all, as far as cooling is concerned there is no way in hell anything close to that figure comes down to cooling, so most of it comes from electricity consumption. Guess what, everything that has a microchip in it uses electricity, if you have a gaming PC you're using a couple of thousands gallons yourself I guess, why is that any more or less special ?

Bitcoin and crypto in general is a dying industry and less and less onchain transactions are happening in general.

I don't see this being a longterm issue.
1701642924185.png


Doesn't seem like it and also you got to take into account how much slower and more expensive each transaction is becoming over time, this doesn't show any sign of slowing down.
 
Last edited:

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
Maybe you should read it again, they quote that the water is needed for cooling and electricity.

First of all, as far as cooling is concerned there is no way in hell anything close to that figure comes down to cooling, so most of it comes from electricity consumption. Guess what, everything that has a microchip in it uses electricity, if you have a gaming PC you're using a couple of thousands gallons yourself I guess, why is that any more or less special ?

they are specifically referring to the mega mining operations that are in place in Kazakhstan that formed after the Bitcoin mining ban in China. those operations, yes probably do use that much water. they aren't talking about all operations, just this specific incidence. unless I am reading it wrong. I don't know. Don't really care to be honest, humans are a failed species in many ways from my observations and it will all collapse, probably within our lifetime. Much like the moth to the flame, our greed knows no bounds.
 
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,730 (0.61/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Core i7 6950X @ 4,26GHz (1,28V)
Motherboard X99 SOC Champion (BIOS F23c + bifurcation mod)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X + 2x Delta 38mm PWM (Push-Pull)
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000MHz CL16 4x8GB (@3240MHz CL12.12.12.24 CR2T @ 1,48V)
Video Card(s) Titan V (~1650MHz @ 0.77V, HBM2 1GHz, Forced P2 state [OFF])
Storage WD SN850X 2TB + Samsung EVO 2TB (SATA) + Seagate Exos X20 20TB (4Kn mode)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Motu M4 (audio interface) + ATH-A900Z + Behringer C-1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
No one ever said it was the same. I said the US has possible similar problems, if you read the article that is what the article shows, but the article mainly focuses on Kazakhstan and explains it in detail the calculations made to come to said conclusion.
Raport your article is based on :
By using the CCAF’s estimates on power demand and spatial distribution of Bitcoin mining following the approach by Siddik et al.
4
and using the same estimated water consumption factors for electricity generation per country, the water footprint of Bitcoin in 2021 was determined to be 1,573.7 GL (Data S1). This estimate closely aligns with the estimate of 1,572.3 GL by Siddik et al., with the minor discrepancy attributed to the exclusion of certain countries with a small contribution to the total water footprint in Siddik et al.’s study.
In "Siddik" source which is linked we can read :
Stoll et al. (2019) was the first study to use detailed data on mining hardware, facilities, and pools, along with the pool server, miner, and device IP addresses, to estimate the amount and location of electricity consumption and the carbon footprint associated with Bitcoin in 2018 .
There has previously been no spatially explicit analysis regarding the environmental impact of cryptocurrency and its water consumption is not well understood.

So basically, this article is based on raport that is based on raport, that doesn't have ANY hard numbers on anything water related, and at best uses guesstimated outdated data about power consumption for bitcoin generation.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
That's fair. Doesn't change my opinion about wasting resources when we should be focusing on saving the planet instead, but regardless you are correct the TH article is a little misleading in this case. I still think humans are fucked, I guess the yacht dwelling rich people will be ok, but yeah most of us or our offspring are prob fucked lol
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2023
Messages
41 (0.23/day)
Location
France
System Name Буря IV
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte B550I Aorus Pro AX
Cooling be quiet! Pure Loop 2 280 AiO
Memory Corsair 2x8GB DDR4 3200 MT/s CL16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX6800 Nitro+
Storage Crucial NVMe SSDs
Display(s) Huawei Mateview GT 34"
Case McPrue Apollo S 3.0 (Rev.2) SFF
Audio Device(s) Ikko ITB03 → Softears RSV / Moondrop Aria / Final E500 | DAC-X6 Mk. II → DT770 Pro (don't like)
Power Supply Corsair SF600
hmmm

I thought water was a renewable resource.................at least that's what I remember in school with the water cycle................but that was long ago.

It is as a whole. But only 3% of the Earth's water is freshwater. 69% of that fresh water is locked away in the form of ice in glaciers and polar ice caps, and 30% another is under the surface in the form of groundwater, which is effectively non-renewable, and not uniform around the globe. So it's unfortunately not so simple.

Edit : For example, only 2.8% of Kazakhstan is covered with water...
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,602 (5.96/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
Oh, you are going to build a nuclear power plant for building and running desalination plant for the bitcoin operations in Kazakhstan? Very kind of you. Not sure how you plan to fund the nuclear power plant though, those people will be suffering in 2030+. The miners won't care they will just move on. haha humans are funny like that.



By the time they move it won't matter for those people who are stuck there. You don't seem to care about the poor in this situation, a folly indeed.
Guess what a nuclear power plant needs a LOT of, indeed...

At some point you're building a system of systems that has a net loss.
The overarching theme is, we need water for literally everything, and we need it in varying qualities. To get those qualities we need to filter water. Which comes with its own footprint.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
1,310 (1.58/day)
Location
Mississauga, Canada
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (WiFi 6)
Cooling Noctua NH-C14S (two fans)
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Reference Vega 64
Storage Intel 665p 1TB, WD Black SN850X 2TB, Crucial MX300 1TB SATA, Samsung 830 256 GB SATA
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG27, and Samsung S23A700
Case Fractal Design R5
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME TITANIUM 850W
Mouse Logitech
VR HMD Oculus Rift
Software Windows 11 Pro, and Ubuntu 20.04
This is such utter nonsense, one BTC transaction does not consume one gazillion billion gallons of water for required for cooling.

If you look up the estimated consumption of one transaction is 1000W per hour, you do not need 4200 gallons of water to cool that lol, what the hell, who comes up with these ludicrous claims ?
The estimated power per Bitcoin transaction is 694.49 kWh which is almost three orders of magnitude more than 1 kWh. Compare it to a VISA transaction to see how wasteful Bitcoin is.
1701688321783.png
 
Last edited:

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
yeah, that is precisely the point, its a matter of scale. and 8 billion humans consuming = the math doesn't work out. many people are going to suffer in the next decade or two, but we live in 1st world nations so we won't see it first hand.

I could also make the argument that 80% of the worlds coltan supply is mined by slaves in the warlord controlled mines of the DRC, the fact we turn on our smartphone or computer every day, or those bitcoin miner setups, and most likely the coltan that is in there came from slaves who live under horrific circumstances probably doesn't make you bat an eye eh? not in your control so you just move on with life eh? fucking all lying to yourselves and missing the bigger picture. this is all going to fucking collapse in our lifetime, and I am going to laugh as the chimpanzee dna in us all turns full inward to its animal side and we forget we are capable of reason. although, our species being capable of reason is possibly just an illusion, based on my current observations of the world. truly a shame, humans were capable of so much, yet so little.
 

the54thvoid

Intoxicated Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
12,275 (2.36/day)
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar B650 (wifi)
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4
Memory 32GB Kingston Fury
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX4070ti
Storage Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 1TB / Samsumg 960 Pro M.2 512Gb
Display(s) LG 32" 165Hz 1440p GSYNC
Case Asus Prime AP201
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply be quiet! Pure POwer M12 850w Gold (ATX3.0)
Software W10
Other than water molecules 'lost' to solar wind, etc., water is a cycle, and it's replaced by objects and debris entering our atmosphere.

Just to point out from your quoted source that water is not being replaced from meteorites/comets these days:
These meteorites may have continued to supply water and organic compounds to Earth in the recent past

There are a few comments here from people suggesting there's nothing wrong with the earth's water. That's only true if we didn't need to use more and more of it. There are plenty of data points from many studies to show water usage going up and up across the globe. It's obvious considering the expansion of the human population. I mean, yeah, there's a water cycle, but that's not drinking water. That's all water, and it's a finite source of 'x'. Geographically, humans tend to live near fresh water, so we build near water. We farm close to it (or we use irrigation to do that). Access to clean water is an issue.

However, a closed loop solution for cooling isn't the same. We could arguably close swimming pools to cool down industrial equipment. Fact is, water as a resource isn't something to take for granted, and it needs to be considered when planning practically anything that needs it. But when used as a closed cooling loop then there's less of an issue once the water is sourced.



"Water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink."
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
3,475 (0.85/day)
System Name Skunkworks
Processor 5800x3d
Motherboard x570 unify
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory 32GB 3600 mhz
Video Card(s) asrock 6800xt challenger D
Storage Sabarent rocket 4.0 2TB, MX 500 2TB
Display(s) Asus 1440p144 27"
Case Old arse cooler master 932
Power Supply Corsair 1200w platinum
Mouse *squeak*
Keyboard Some old office thing
Software openSUSE tumbleweed/Mint 21.2

Tom's Hardware had an interesting article today, I just read it... very interesting. Lot's of great explanation about the number was calculated, etc.

The studies also observe the bitcoin mining operation in Kazakhstan, which could face a significant freshwater shortage of 997.9 GL by 2030. This is mainly because China banned Bitcoin operations, and as a consequence, many mining operations shifted there, making the country the largest hub for Bitcoin mining.

So if you live in Kazakhstan, and you plan to have drinking water around the year 2035, you are probably fucked. Unless the UN steps in to help you. The USA seems to also have some issues with potential fresh water sources, but only if no mitigation is taken. So, will Bitcoin farms be responsible? Most likely not. lol what a joke. we could be using all that water instead for massive solar panel farms, but humans greed knows no bounds.
You're letting your climate sensationalism take over. 74% of energy used on crypto is already renewable. Wind, solar, ece. It sounds liek you are blaming a former soviet block's terrible infastructure on bitcoin.

Oh, and that USA part made me LOL. Ever hear of this thing called the great lakes? We have 74% of the WORLD's supply of fresh water. We're not running out anytime soon. Now, those whom insist on living in california? Yeah, they're screwed, but thats what happens when you put 30 million people in a desert.
Solar isn't profitable? I wonder why so many houses in England (a very cloudy country) manage to have so many residential solar panels on roofs... lived there last year and saw a shocking amount, but I guess it isn't profitable, so they must be idiots.
Ever hear of this thing called a government subsidy? England is also MASSIVELY in debt, by definition, it cannot afford those.

Oh, you are going to build a nuclear power plant for building and running desalination plant for the bitcoin operations in Kazakhstan? Very kind of you. Not sure how you plan to fund the nuclear power plant though, those people will be suffering in 2030+. The miners won't care they will just move on. haha humans are funny like that.
Nuclear is a requirement for a green future. For someone who is so doom and gloom, you really dont want any actual solutions built.
By the time they move it won't matter for those people who are stuck there. You don't seem to care about the poor in this situation, a folly indeed.
Bleeding your heart out for the poor is a great way to end up flattened.
 

Space Lynx

Astronaut
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
15,518 (4.53/day)
Location
Kepler-186f
I am pro nuclear, but it won't ever happen, so no point in talking about it.

Has nothing to do about caring for the poor or not, it has to do with the categorical imperatives by Kant, and we already see society collapsing precisely because it is a slippery slope in how you treat other people.

I'm unwatching thread, and not clicking on any quotes that direct me to this thread, I really just hope humanity figures it out before it's too late.

This might be our last hope, but hopefully it arrives in time:

 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,622 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
Doesn't seem like it and also you got to take into account how much slower and more expensive each transaction is becoming over time, this doesn't show any sign of slowing down.
Are all those transactions onchain? I was under the impression a lot of transactions are offchain now, and those don't cost anywhere near as much (much more in line with a VISA charge).

If they are, then heck yes, that's a problem. I'll be the first to admit I'm not as up to date as I used to be.
 
Joined
May 25, 2022
Messages
79 (0.12/day)
First of all, human activity itself consumes something.

By that reasoning if you KILL all humans, then all will be ok. Hmm, sounds a lot like what the elites are thinking nowadays?

Also, the argument about "overpopulation" is flawed. Mouse utopia experiment shows the problem is targetted overpopulation(ie. cities) and it's a fundamental thing. Population can't increase forever in that case, because of the problems created it collapses. The experiment showed that once the problem started surfacing, the population collapsed as if off a cliff. Many parts of the world has been in the problem state for few years now. A very notable one being Japan.

Volume of Bitcoin transactions are negligibly small by finance standards, so they have time to improve. Since each transaction is slow and expensive anyways, for it to scale it would need to reduce the cost of said criticized transactions to have any chance to replace things like Visa/Mastercard. It's kinda like saying in 1945 that computers would NEVER be used en masse because ENIAC took up an entire room.

No, computers became small enough to push it under our desks, then on our lap, and then in our pockets.
 
Top