The future of RDNA on Desktop.

[wolf]

If you can find any GPU at MSRP, please let us know.

Some trickle through here locally but are snapped up very quick, there's a reasonably popular site for stock alerts. Did surprise me that the 70Ti and 80 were having MSRP restocks at all, but it is happening.

Bear in mind I suppose that Nvidia's official MSRP prices in AUD are already heftily over the USD, such is living at the ass end of the world.

AFAIK AMD haven't released a direct AUD MSRP, so it has the potential to be a little sharper than Nvidia's local pricing I suspect, but again most 9070XT's are $1400+ AUD meaning ~$880 USD, cheapest so far that ever flashed briefly in stock was $1139 AUD or $720 USD, not bad!

 

[Jtuck9]

The thing about it is the UDNA 1 Card looks to be aways off. Everything is highly speculative at this point. But the launch window lies in the 2028 to 2031 timeframe. Several Sources, include Wendel from Level 1Techs, have cited the new card will be a Halo Product that will consist of 2 Dies. One for Compute Loads to handle CAD type work and a Second Die for Gaming. Both glued together with infinity fabric. The Graphics Die may very well be a direct descendant from the RDNA but that name may well be erased from the AMD History Books along with the Radeon Technologies Group. There were news stories circulating around a couple of weeks ago of Layoffs at RTG. It seems this is a precursor of what is to come at RTG. Once it gets cut down to a size that AMD views as acceptable to AMD Leadership the remnants will be folded into the CDNA Division. Once the consolidation is complete even the CDNA/UDNA nomenclature will disappear.

I must state the old RDNA Technology will not go away. To the contrary it will be developed and new Graphics dies produced under a different department with the Radeon Branding wiped out. As I opened this post RDNA could be snoozed for a while. AMD has stated there will be an RDNA 5 but it will be only for Consoles and APUs only. No discrete GPUs. That launch is some 18 months away. But after the RDNA 5 Launch is completed development of the UDNA Card goes full steam. At that point, early 2027, the discrete GPU market could be hungry for new series of cards. While AMD will be working on a new Halo Card for which AMD will charge Top Dollar. But what about the Midrange Market that AMD has cultivated ? We still can't gauge the Sustained Demand for RDNA-4. In the last 72 Hours Roman derBauer has revealed the RX9070XT's Performance can be pushed clear up to RTX5080 levels by Undercoating then Overclocking the High End RX9070XT Cards. This claim was replicated by another OverClocker in Indonesia 36 Hours later. We don't know if this operating regime is stable just yet but if it does it could finish-off the litany of screw-ups that has beset Nvidia and nail the coffin shut on the RTX 5000 Series. This in turn could create an Over Demand Problem for the 9070 Series leading to chronic shortages for the rest of 2025 and a complete sellout before the 2025 Holiday Season ends. What happens then if AMD has to go back to TSMC asking for a Supplemental run of New 9070 Wafers ? Does AMD just hand TSMC the files and say "another 1,000 Wafers please" or do they tempt fate with some Engineering Change Orders. Obviously AMD should know by the end of June how much strength the demand crush has and when they will run out of new cards.

These are still early days but all indications are pointing to AMD having to address problems it hasn't b my seen in a very long time.

It will be interesting to see where the cards intersect and diverge. A UDNA of the pipeline if you will

 

[AusWolf]

Some trickle through here locally but are snapped up very quick, there's a reasonably popular site for stock alerts. Did surprise me that the 70Ti and 80 were having MSRP restocks at all, but it is happening.

Bear in mind I suppose that Nvidia's official MSRP prices in AUD are already heftily over the USD, such is living at the ass end of the world.

AFAIK AMD haven't released a direct AUD MSRP, so it has the potential to be a little sharper than Nvidia's local pricing I suspect, but again most 9070XT's are $1400+ AUD meaning ~$880 USD, cheapest so far that ever flashed briefly in stock was $1139 AUD or $720 USD, not bad!

That's really not bad for "the ass end of the world".

Here in the UK, the cheapest 9070 XTs are the Sapphire Pulse and Powercolor Reaper, currently listed at £649. The cheapest 5070 Ti's are the PNY Triple Fan OC and Zotac Solid for £799.
The cheapest 9070 XT that's actually in stock is the Asus TUF OC for £799. Cheapest 5070 Ti in stock is the Zotac AMP Extreme Infinity (isn't that name a mouthful) for £889.

I'm blaming the new tariffs for these prices because even after the alleged "AMD price hike", the "5070 Ti - 150 bucks = 9070 XT" formula still holds. Therefore, I'm not sure if it'll get cheaper than this.

 

[wolf]

I'm blaming the new tariffs

That whole situation is cooked for sure things might even get worse before they get better.

 

[AusWolf]

That whole situation is cooked for sure things might even get worse before they get better.

Like I said in another thread, only if people had enough willpower not to buy overpriced garbage... That day will never come, will it?

 

[Jtuck9]

Like I said in another thread, only if people had enough willpower not to buy overpriced garbage... That day will never come, will it?

I'm not sure why they can't just reduce their e-waste and therefore reduce the prices for what people actually want. Really looking forward to e-waste recycling taking off, that circular economy in action. Maybe the irony being less purity leading to more e-waste but?!

 

[AusWolf]

I'm not sure why they can't just reduce their e-waste and therefore reduce the prices for what people actually want.

Because people pay for it anyway.

Look at flagship phones... Do we really need deals where you pay a bazillion $ each month for the chance to swap your phone for the new model every year? I don't think so. But those deals are hugely popular.

 

[wolf]

Like I said in another thread, only if people had enough willpower not to buy overpriced garbage... That day will never come, will it?

Like the tariffs and other things around the world, I think that also falls in the bucket of getting worse before it gets better. Maybe I'll just shut the blinds and escape in my games.

 

[Jtuck9]

Like the tariffs and other things around the world, I think that also falls in the bucket of getting worse before it gets better. Maybe I'll just shut the blinds and escape in my games.

What's that old adage? "write what you know"...

*despondent emoji*

The Novel I’m Searching For

Five years after the pandemic, I’m holding out for a story that doesn’t just describe our experience, but transforms it.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[AusWolf]

Like the tariffs and other things around the world, I think that also falls in the bucket of getting worse before it gets better. Maybe I'll just shut the blinds and escape in my games.

If technological "advancements" (=stagnation) continue on the path they've been going on recently, then I'm sorted for the next 2-3 generations minimum. This is the only thing I'm glad for in the present situation.

 

[Jtuck9]

If technological "advancements" (=stagnation) continue on the path they've been going on recently, then I'm sorted for the next 2-3 generations minimum. This is the only thing I'm glad for in the present situation.

Ezra Klein’s new take on AGI – and why I think it’s probably wrong

In a new episode of his podcast with Ben Buchanan former special adviser for artificial intelligence under Biden, entitled, The Government knows A.G.I.

garymarcus.substack.com

 

[LittleBro]

I'm blaming the new tariffs for these prices because even after the alleged "AMD price hike", the "5070 Ti - 150 bucks = 9070 XT" formula still holds. Therefore, I'm not sure if it'll get cheaper than this.

When USA apply import tarriffs, they should not affect rest of the world. Only valid reason would be that goods get imported by USA (get physically to USA first) and then are sold to EU, Asia, ... But this is not how it works. Distribution centres in EU get goods from Asia. Maybe USA import tarriffs are used as excuse to obfuscate enormous prices, still, tarriffs are not directly involved. Everyone in distribution cycle sees that customers are willing to pay anything for goods. I'd say AIB's and shops are scalpers now ... USA surely shits their own pants with introducing tarriffs for everything from anywhere outside of USA. It's not EU that relies on metals from USA to make cars. It's exactly the opposite. Crazy times we live in.

The only thing that can stop this is customer demand.

 

[2901BitSlice]

At what point do you suspect prices come completely unglued from reality?
It's most likely the next step but I don't have any indication for the moment.

I doubt the Premium Grade Cards will change much in Real Price from where they are right now. XFX is charging $839 & $859 for the Mercury Series. I expect the tariffs to kick-in in late April which will tack on another 200 Bucks to the cost. That will push the cards over a Grand. (Trump's tariffs will spark a nasty round of inflation and Gamers will be on the front line)

It will be interesting to see where the cards intersect and diverge. A UDNA of the pipeline if you will

Jensen Huang got Nvidia to it's position of dominance in Gaming by cutting scraps off of Titan Wafers. By doing that Nvidia's Compute Customers wound up subsidizing the R&D as well some of the Production Cost for the Gaming Cards he was charging 1000 Bucks for. This practice of routing money from one division to another is quite common in business. In this case the transfer is indirect but it is a transfer nonetheless. Lisa Su nor any of her predecessors at AMD could pull this stunt of because AMD GPUs were to specialized in their application and focused on Gaming to the exclusion of all else. Even when AMD brought in GCN the cards were too small to be of any use to the Compute Sector. But that will change with UDNA. It will be at least a Dual Die Configuration with one of those Dies focusing on Compute Task. The new Card will be available for sale into either sector at a price of $1500 for Gamers and $20,000 for Compute Applications. For accounting purposes all of the moneys will go to one card so the losses for the Gaming Cards are masked. To conclude the UDNA cards will be a Halo Product and only Halo Product and won't intersect with anything

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

This part right here, I've been subconsciously locked on for three months. Yes the 9070 cards are great and all but the silicon production situation is BAD bad.
I've been in a situation where skipping multiple generations has put me OUT of the support ring and it has started to impact my work, so it's kind of a panic.
We know TSMC is on some iteration of their 5nm technology with no surprise to anyone, continues to run 100% until demand falls off.
That could be anywhere between several months to a few years. There are new production strategies coming out of the woodwork too.

Silicon Production isnt Bad at all, it is that the demand for silicon has Skyrocketed in recent times from areas that didnt exist a few years ago and a few failures from Intel meaning there is even more demand for limited silicon.

Just the extra things such as the increase in Infotainment/Self driving/Safety features in cars, Proliferation of Drones, AI based CCTV/security needing a non trivial amount of in built processing on device, Networking has also shifted onto the latest and greatest nodes as well as larger/more cores due to the increase in speeds being required.

All of the above on top of the Crypto/AI boom and its a bit of a perfect storm. I highly doubt TSMC/Samsung are happy with effectively leaving money on the table purely because
TSMC: Most likely cannot produce any more than they currently do
Samsung: Isnt at the bleeding edge node wise due to issues with both the nature of their tech (seemingly very leaky/high heat like for like against TSMC) and I believe yield issues limiting their attractiveness to customers.


What people should actually be hoping for is that the new Intel CEO manages to steady the helm and Intel Foundries get their ducks in a row because that could both increase available silicon and space on TSMCs order book by Intel pulling their CPU/GPU back in house. There are a few other areas it could help but it could come across as reaching/wishful thinking.

 

[2901BitSlice]

It will be interesting to see where the cards intersect and diverge. A UDNA of the pipeline if you will

UDNA will be a Halo Product, no intersection with anything

That's really not bad for "the ass end of the world".

Here in the UK, the cheapest 9070 XTs are the Sapphire Pulse and Powercolor Reaper, currently listed at £649. The cheapest 5070 Ti's are the PNY Triple Fan OC and Zotac Solid for £799.
The cheapest 9070 XT that's actually in stock is the Asus TUF OC for £799. Cheapest 5070 Ti in stock is the Zotac AMP Extreme Infinity (isn't that name a mouthful) for £889.

I'm blaming the new tariffs for these prices because even after the alleged "AMD price hike", the "5070 Ti - 150 bucks = 9070 XT" formula still holds. Therefore, I'm not sure if it'll get cheaper than this.

The import tariffs are still about 6 weeks away. When they kick in there will be a big jump in prices in the US. What is happening right now is the manufacturer are rushing to ship as much stock in to the US to beat the tariffs. That's why stock in Europe and Asia is close to non-existent right now. That problem should clear up to mid to late Spring.

 

[DaemonForce]

Silicon Production isnt Bad at all, it is that the demand for silicon has Skyrocketed in recent times from areas that didnt exist a few years ago and a few failures from Intel

Nobody has cared about Intel production in a very long time. I think my last suggestion for VR enthusiast was the 8700K, which still hasn't fallen off yet.
So, yeah. The demand has always been there, no surprise.

I highly doubt TSMC/Samsung are happy with effectively leaving money on the table purely because
TSMC: Most likely cannot produce any more than they currently do
Samsung: Isnt at the bleeding edge node wise due to issues with both the nature of their tech

TSMC has good initiative to get more plants built. More in the US as a bargaining chip to nullify tariff noise or Malay and Germany as a speed tactic.
Samsung is still the bleeding edge according to those that are interested in their enthusiast products but you'll have to ask them, I stick to Micron.
Intel has forgotten how to fill a fab and very much put themselves in this terrifying situation. Wouldn't be surprised if they get left in the dust.

 

[2901BitSlice]

Intel's TMG is one sorry collection of Stumble Bums. Intel now has to purchase Wafers from TSMC for most of their own chips because their collection of nincompoops in Oregon and Arizona can't do it. They say that are outputting on 4nm in Arizona .... For what ? Yet they have to buy wafers in from TSMC

 

[AusWolf]

When USA apply import tarriffs, they should not affect rest of the world. Only valid reason would be that goods get imported by USA (get physically to USA first) and then are sold to EU, Asia, ... But this is not how it works. Distribution centres in EU get goods from Asia. Maybe USA import tarriffs are used as excuse to obfuscate enormous prices, still, tarriffs are not directly involved. Everyone in distribution cycle sees that customers are willing to pay anything for goods. I'd say AIB's and shops are scalpers now ... USA surely shits their own pants with introducing tarriffs for everything from anywhere outside of USA. It's not EU that relies on metals from USA to make cars. It's exactly the opposite. Crazy times we live in.

I guess it's a lot easier to increase prices all across the board instead of tracking where every single item goes through.

The only thing that can stop this is customer demand.

I completely agree. But as long as people are sheep...

 

[Jtuck9]

UDNA will be a Halo Product, no intersection with anything

You expect to see no traces or DNA of RDNA 4?

Did the good lord not come to fulfill?

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

The import tariffs are still about 6 weeks away. When they kick in there will be a big jump in prices in the US. What is happening right now is the manufacturer are rushing to ship as much stock in to the US to beat the tariffs. That's why stock in Europe and Asia is close to non-existent right now. That problem should clear up to mid to late Spring.

That is not correct, the China tariffs have already taken effect (all the way back in Feb 4 actually for new products entering US ports).

And manufacturers have been rushing to ship stock all the way back since November.

 

[2901BitSlice]

You expect to see no traces or DNA of RDNA 4?

Did the good lord not come to fulfill?

If you are ready and will to pay 2 Grand for a Top Tier Gaming Card you will be able to get your hands on one. But the design of the chip complete with two chiplets, Infinity Fabric Interconnect and 2.5 D stacking will not come cheap and certainly not lend itself to mass adoption by Gamers unless Lisa Su is hell bent to funnel substantial Compute Division Profits into subsidizing GPUs for Gamers.

That is not correct, the China tariffs have already taken effect (all the way back in Feb 4 actually for new products entering US ports).

And manufacturers have been rushing to ship stock all the way back since November.

The Chinese Import Tariffs were implemented in two stages. A 10% Tariffs was initiated on February 4. That number was increased to 20% on March 6. Stock in the US before Feb 4 was not subjected to any tariffs. Considering a large stock of AMD GPUs began accumulating on Distributors shelves in December it's a good bet that none of the AMD GPUs sold March 8th were subject to ANY tariffs.

That is not correct, the China tariffs have already taken effect (all the way back in Feb 4 actually for new products entering US ports).

And manufacturers have been rushing to ship stock all the way back since November.

The Chinese Import Tariffs were implemented in two stages. A 10% Tariffs was initiated on February 4. That number was increased to 20% on March 6. Stock in the US before Feb 4 was not subjected to any tariffs. Considering a large stock of AMD GPUs began accumulating on Distributors shelves in December it's a good bet that none of the AMD GPUs sold March 8th were subject to ANY tariffs.

 

[Hecate91]

I must state the old RDNA Technology will not go away. To the contrary it will be developed and new Graphics dies produced under a different department with the Radeon Branding wiped out.

So AMD will get rid of the Radeon branding? It makes no sense to ditch the brand now that they're getting a massive improvement with RDNA4, bringing some needed recognition to the Radeon brand.
AMD needs to stick with a naming scheme and get people aware of the brand, unless AMD is deciding to do a Ryzen with their graphics division and wants to start fresh.

If you are ready and will to pay 2 Grand for a Top Tier Gaming Card you will be able to get your hands on one. But the design of the chip complete with two chiplets, Infinity Fabric Interconnect and 2.5 D stacking will not come cheap and certainly not lend itself to mass adoption by Gamers unless Lisa Su is hell bent to funnel substantial Compute Division Profits into subsidizing GPUs for Gamers.

No mid range or $500-700 tier card would completely kill off AMD cards for most gamers, leaving Nvidia with over 90% market share.
If AMD is going to do a 2 chip GPGPU+Compute die, then one or both of the chips should be scalable?

 

[x4it3n]

If you are ready and will to pay 2 Grand for a Top Tier Gaming Card you will be able to get your hands on one. But the design of the chip complete with two chiplets, Infinity Fabric Interconnect and 2.5 D stacking will not come cheap and certainly not lend itself to mass adoption by Gamers unless Lisa Su is hell bent to funnel substantial Compute Division Profits into subsidizing GPUs for Gamers.

An UDNA Halo GPU could be sold for about $1000 or maybe a bit more if AMD wanted to. And if the performance was great compared to a 5090 (and maybe a future 6090), it would sell like candies... It's all about Performance/Price.
The 7900 XTX is not too far from a 4090 in Raster performance (15-20% slower), but it is about 50% to 2x slower in Ultra RT/PT, and DLSS 3/4 is much better than FSR 3/3.1 too ! Nvidia GPUs are also much better for Streaming, Encoding/Decoding, Working (CUDA for Pros), etc., hence why most people went with the 4090.

But if AMD could make a UDNA GPU as powerful (Raster/RT/PT) and as good (DLSS, CUDA, Decoding/Encoding, etc.) as the 5090 for $1000-ish then it would REALLY hurt Nvidia.

Let's not forget than the 9070 XT is almost a 7800 XT spec-wise (it just has 6.67% more Cores and almost the same memory bandwidth), but the 9070 XT is $100 more (probably due to the Trump tariffs, but the hardware from 2 years ago should be cheaper to manufacture in 2025 too so it should somehow even out).

 

[2901BitSlice]

Hi

So AMD will get rid of the Radeon branding? It makes no sense to ditch the brand now that they're getting a massive improvement with RDNA4, bringing some needed recognition to the Radeon brand.
AMD needs to stick with a naming scheme and get people aware of the brand, unless AMD is deciding to do a Ryzen with their graphics division and wants to start fresh.

No mid range or $500-700 tier card would completely kill off AMD cards for most gamers, leaving Nvidia with over 90% market share.
If AMD is going to do a 2 chip GPGPU+Compute die, then one or both of the chips should be scalable?

To answer the first part of your phasing out the Radeon Branding is a simple recognition of the maturation of the Graphic GPU Technology. Lest we forget the RTG Division and the Radeon Branding were created by AMD Leadership to entice Raja Koduri to rejoin AMD for a second term of employment in 2013. Less than 4 years later Raja would depart AMD. That was more than 8 years ago. While RTG and Radeon took a leadership positions in creating numerous innovative products none of those products did very much to increase AMD's bottom line. As a matter of fact AMD's economics have increased in a big way with the introduction of GPGPUs the Instinct Series of number crunching GPGPUs.

The news that has emerged over the last 5 years is of the morale problems within RTG. The word is RTGers have gain a reputation as being stubborn and unwilling to accept opinions of "outsiders" specifically as it relates to people from the CPU Division that were sent in to RTG to address chronic problems that had cropped up. Just 3 months ago there was a sizable cut back in head count at RTG to close out 2024. Graphics GPUs is not where the money is. Graphics GPUs command a sizable numbers of users but they don't have the kind of disposable income to make the market lucrative. The sale of Gaming GPUs happens on Grocery Store Margins Industry wide. Even Nvidia Gaming Card Revenue comes as residue of sales of the original Titan Cards

 

[Jtuck9]

If you are ready and will to pay 2 Grand for a Top Tier Gaming Card you will be able to get your hands on one. But the design of the chip complete with two chiplets, Infinity Fabric Interconnect and 2.5 D stacking will not come cheap and certainly not lend itself to mass adoption by Gamers unless Lisa Su is hell bent to funnel substantial Compute Division Profits into subsidizing GPUs for Gamers.

"Gamers" is a pretty broad spectrum, but I agree it's probably down to whether its even worth it. Maybe the kudos will pay dividends?!