The Mini-ITX build begins.

[Cuzza]

fans loud?

 

[Lazzer408]

were those idle or load temps?

Those are all idle temps. I'm doing a Prime95 load test now. Sitting at 51c after 20min. I'll let it run awhile.

fans loud?

It's hard to tell. I can hear them but the powersupply is louder. It's not the supply I'm going to use though. It's just being used for testing.

 

[Cuzza]

Well, those temps are low so you can defnitely slow them down.

 

[Lazzer408]

The most the cpu has peaked at so far is (EDIT) 59c. It's floating around 55~57. There's really nothing to heat soak with the way it's designed so I can probably say that's a stable reading. Ambiant is 23c. I'm happy with the cpu at 65c or lower.

When the videocard is installed it brings up a few thoughts...
The case fans are creating a negitive pressure in the case. The videocard's fan has to fight that. This could raise the videocard's temp or make it's fan run faster. On the plus side, this adds additional flow into the cpu since the cpu duct is the only way in. On the down side, the videocard is sucking in warm air. If I put vent slits on the left side, the videocard will get cool air but this drops the pressure in the case and the cpu will loose flow.

Options...
I can fit the smaller Intel cooler, with it's fan, in the duct. This maintains flow over the cpu but it's not a very good cooler for overclocking. Another option is to mount the hard drive above the videocard and put a hole in the bottom of the case with foam sealing against the videocard's intake. This keeps the videocard completely isolated but makes hdd mounting a bit more difficult. It does make the hdd alot easier to replace.

Thoughts?

Oh and by the way. I'm just splitting hairs while I wait for my parts. lol

Well, those temps are low so you can defnitely slow them down.

Agreed. They will be PWM controlled by the mobo when it's finished.

 

[Lazzer408]

I bet I can cram one of these in the front panel.

 

[Lazzer408]

With cpu duct, 3 fans@100%
2.66ghz: cpu 25c / mcp 37c (difference cpu 12c / mcp 4c)
3.0ghz: cpu 27c / mcp 38c (difference cpu 12c / mcp 3c)

These results were using the large Intel cooler with no fan (the one on the right). Using the Intel cooler on the left WITH a fan I'm idling at 30c with a 3ghz clock. Under Prime95 it's about the same as the large one with no fan at 59c peak. Could be a solution if the videocard screws up the airflow. If the videocard doesn't create any issues I might as well save the noise and just use the large cooler with no fan. Anyone seen a round cooler like that out of copper?

 

[xBruce88x]

could you mod one of the zalman copper coolers that lay down? (hacksaw lol) the fan is 110mm to give you an idea of size

cut right where the part is where it goes the the wider size... this should also cut off the outer ring that's raised up making it fit in the case better. I know its a waste copper....

see attached images

... here's a version with a 92mm fan instead... it might have a better chance of fitting with less hacksawing... and its about $25 instead of $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118047

 

[Cuzza]

fins on those zalmans are thin. cut em with snips, no hacksaw needed

 

[pantherx12]

I say give the video card its own independant air supply.

It's what I plan on doing when I get round to my version of this, it makes the most sense in my head.

 

[Lazzer408]

Powersupply showed up. Modding now.

 

[Chicken Patty]

keep us posted lazzer

 

[Lazzer408]

This psu will work fine for the prototype and testing but I really need to get that SPI300 ordered. That's the 300w +80 PFC supply.

I believe the best route with everything considered is ditching the airduct, leave the slits in the rear, slit the left side, and use a cpu cooler with a fan. The cpu duct slightly blocked the rear-most fan so without it the fan will flow more efficiently. With 3 case fans keeping the air moving I think it'll be fine. I'm going to throttle the case fans to a level I can barely hear across the room and get some temps. I'll post shortly.

I plan to make a few of these to sell. Maybe make a few bucks on the side. The less custom fab work the better. No duct means the end user can choose whatever fan works best for them. Maybe the Intel one is enough, maybe the Zalman Bruce suggested would work well, or perhapse the 120mm Scythe Shuriken low profile cooler? I'll leave it up to the end user to decide as long as the stock Intel cooler can keep stock clocks at less then 55~60c and 60~65 on a light overclock. Does that sound reasonable?

Alot of these ideas are cool and some are practical, to some degree (pun intended), but is 5 or 10c worth all the extra time and cost as long as the cpu is opperating within a safe range?

 

[Chicken Patty]

This psu will work fine for the prototype and testing but I really need to get that SPI300 ordered. That's the 300w +80 PFC supply.

I believe the best route with everything considered is ditching the airduct, leave the slits in the rear, slit the left side, and use a cpu cooler with a fan. The cpu duct slightly blocked the rear-most fan so without it the fan will flow more efficiently. With 3 case fans keeping the air moving I think it'll be fine. I'm going to throttle the case fans to a level I can barely hear across the room and get some temps. I'll post shortly.

I plan to make a few of these to sell. Maybe make a few bucks on the side. The less custom fab work the better. No duct means the end user can choose whatever fan works best for them. Maybe the Intel one is enough, maybe the Zalman Bruce suggested would work well, or perhapse the 120mm Scythe Shuriken low profile cooler? I'll leave it up to the end user to decide as long as the stock Intel cooler can keep stock clocks at less then 55~60c and 60~65 on a light overclock. Does that sound reasonable?

Alot of these ideas are cool and some are practical, to some degree (pun intended), but is 5 or 10c worth all the extra time and cost as long as the cpu is opperating within a safe range?

I get what you are saying. A build like this is not meant to be a high performer. As long as it can run stock clocks fine you have yourself a winner.

 

[Lazzer408]

I get what you are saying. A build like this is not meant to be a high performer. As long as it can run stock clocks fine you have yourself a winner.

On the contrary. The point of the build was to make a high performance small form factor computer. The fact that accepts a full size videocard and has an a/v component look to it should be inviting on it's own. Then add the fact it has an internal psu capable of powering the gpu, a quad with a slight overclock, uses a standard cheap hdd, while keeping it all cool? That's the winner.

 

[Chicken Patty]

On the contrary. The point of the build was to make a high performance small form factor computer. The fact that accepts a full size videocard and has an a/v component look to it should be inviting on it's own. Then add the fact it has an internal psu capable of powering the gpu, a quad with a slight overclock, uses a standard cheap hdd, while keeping it all cool? That's the winner.

Well yeah. What I meant was if it runs and stays cool then awesome. but if you are able to get a overclock out of it and manage to keep it cool, then even better. Even at stock clocks, its still a performance small form factor computer. Components determine that

 

[Lazzer408]

Using the small Intel cooler, no duct, no overclock, fans on a very-very low speed (can't hear them 3 feet away).
I'm sitting idle at cpu 33c / mcp 45c. PWM control ofcorse. Bios set to throttle it up at 50c. Rear vent only, no gpu, no left-side slits.
At 3ghz overclock cpu 34c / mcp 46c. Same conditions as above.

-EDIT-
Stock clock Prime95 peak temp hit 60c. 57c average.
Overclock Prime95 peak temp hit 62c. 57c average.

 

[Lazzer408]

You have no idea how tired I am getting from wiring up power supplies. I still have the 6-pin gpu and sata to do. This one here is a 350w "server grade" active PFC. PFC will take away some efficiency but hopefully doesn't add to much extras heat. Yes PFC LOWERS the efficiency of a supply. I'll probably put a fan inside near the supply.

I wonder if it would help any to put the fans on the left side. I'll have to turn the cover around and try that some time.

mmm yummy power.

 

[Lazzer408]

If I can fit 70mm fans in the case, am I better off with 2 70s or 3 60s? These are 70mm off AMD coolers. They are hella fast if need be.

 

[xBruce88x]

depends on the CFM ratings, like if the amd's do 25cfm each and the 60mm do 20cfm, then the 3 60mm would be better.

 

[Cuzza]

Tough choice. I say 3 x 60s will look cooler!

 

[pantherx12]

I say depends on DB levels.

 

[xBruce88x]

i found something that might work for you if you decided to go with the large intel heatsink again...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119067

It has a 42CFM rating at <26dBa. but instead of air coming into the case from your air duct it would pull air out of the case out the back of your air duct. i don't know if that would make things easy or worse for you as far as airflow and noise goes.

 

[Lazzer408]

I say depends on DB levels.

That's why I originally went with the 60s over the 50s that were in the G-Atlantic case. A larger fan can turn slower and quieter to move the same cfm. I may just use 2 70s if it works. I'm just ironing out details and weighing the pros and cons of everything. If I don't I'll wind up with a pile of cases in the scrap corner.

i found something that might work for you if you decided to go with the large intel heatsink again...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119067
http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/35-119-067-03.jpg
It has a 42CFM rating at <26dBa. but instead of air coming into the case from your air duct it would pull air out of the case out the back of your air duct. i don't know if that would make things easy or worse for you as far as airflow and noise goes.

The thought crossed my mind of actually sucking the air up the Intel heatsink then out the rear slot. I had the idea staring at a dead 8800 laying on the floor. lol I didn't know there was a retail fan like that other then slot coolers to mount in an expansion slot. If cpu heat does become an issue that fan is most certainly an option. Thanks for that.

The main problem is what it has always been and that's keeping a powersupply cool. The SPI300 psu (I need to order) has it's own fan and will actually fit in my case while staying in it's own chassis. I'm doodling up some drawings by hand to help visualize the airflow to and from the psu.

 

[xBruce88x]

i remember working on a lot of the SFF dell optiplexes and their power supplies had blowers as well. maybe a small blower for the powersupply would work?

 

[Lazzer408]

I did find this spiffy little input module for power. This would mount below the gfx card in back. Inside the case would be a cable ran from the CMF6 to the SPI300 3-pin ac input. No wiring trouble for an end user.