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The unsatisfying state of air cooling solutions on the market (Case/GPU/NT) - idea as pic

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100%, while it does rise it does so slowly and I can stick intake fans in a PC case roof and shove the hot air right out the vented bottom of a case if I want.



That may have more to do with more cache and cores under load and worse thermal transfer from the CPU to the cooler.

Three years using the same CPU to test with on dedicated BIOS profiles. It isn't that.
 
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Oh, I see, only your opinion and perspective matter.
:roll:
Yeah right. You come in to express your opinion in direct opposition to my comments and that's okay. But when anyone opposes yours, its not so then you launch another of your personal attacks. :( Okay. :rolleyes:

BTW, I was expressing facts, not opinion - other than the "hogwash" parts.

*****

Quiet fans let you overheat. Small coolers will too.
Not sure what you mean by "let you" overheat. A quality "quiet" fan can provide "adequate" cooling too.
Go big or go home.
I agree. With case cooling, get the largest fans you can. Bigger fans move massive amounts of air and can do so while spinning at slower RPMs - thus quieter operation.
 

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@Bill_Bright What fact have you expressed other than coolers and cases work?

I have done the testing, you are guessing on your limited experience with select products you have used.
 
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Talking about convection alongside active cooling is silly - hot air rises so slowly and with so little force even a low rpm 80mm fan can counteract it for a rather large volume of air. As such airflow direction barely matters at all.

As for separating the airflow for various components, this is very difficult in DIY PCs due to component clearances and compatibility - any baffles or compartments would inevitably interfere with something. On the other hand OEMs use this on virtually all their desktops, from SFF to full tower dual CPU multi GPU workstations. Plastic shields/baffles and well placed fans ensures separate airflow for each component and no recycling of air. This does force either large cases and motherboards or bespoke/non-standard solutions though, and would be tricky unless you made a new motherboard standard designed for it from the beginning alongside updated case designs with lots of included baffles of various shapes and sizes.

Though, to be fair, a lot can be done in a modern front-to-back airflow case with good fans and a 3D printer.
 
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Three years using the same CPU to test with on dedicated BIOS profiles. It isn't that.
Which coolers. I'm not trying to argue just trying to see the specifics of your statement. I don't pay too much attention to AiO coolers so that whole industry may be circling the tank when it comes to cooling.

For air cooling I see a lot of quality coolers released recently that provide very good cooling, just to name a few that get good reviews from many web sites

Scythe Fuma 2
Noctua U12A
Corsair A500 (loud but cools well)
Artic Freezer 34 esport

For cases, I agree the industry went AiO mad and created a bunch of hot boxes with closed panels but recently there have been some good air flow cases released as well or are about to be released, just to name a few;

Fractal Design Meshify C and Meshify S2
Corsair 220T
Cooler Master 500 & 500M
Phanteks P300A, P400A, P500A (soon to be released) and P600s
 

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Which coolers. I'm not trying to argue just trying to see the specifics of your statement. I don't pay too much attention to AiO coolers so that whole industry may be circling the tank when it comes to cooling.

For air cooling I see a lot of quality coolers released recently that provide very good cooling, just to name a few that get good reviews from many web sites

Scythe Fuma 2
Noctua U12A
Corsair A500 (loud but cools well)
Artic Freezer 34 esport

For cases, I agree the industry went AiO mad and created a bunch of hot boxes with closed panels but recently there have been some good air flow cases released as well or are about to be released, just to name a few;

Fractal Design Meshify C and Meshify S2
Corsair 220T
Cooler Master 500 & 500M
Phanteks P300A, P400A, P500A (soon to be released) and P600s

Cannot argue with your assertions, but they are the exception to the "rule" not the average by any means. Although in my mind, three of the coolers are "decent", and one is more of a stock replacement idea like the old Hyper 2112 was. From my perspective. In the art of being "satisfied", the Scythe is close, the Noctua, sure, but the Freezer is cheap feeling with poor mounting hardware, and the A500, due to the metal cap on the cooler, is over 100 grams more than the beefiest Noctua cooler, and only just competes, it does not surpass it, leaving me unsatisfied.

Also, none of the coolers listed there did very well, IE beating out much older designs. I mean hell, it does depend on whose reviews you read, but there is no reason a three year old AIO should be at the top of my charts, beating pre-assembled loops, and anything made today.
 
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Limited? LOL So now you know all about me and how much experience I have supporting electronics systems? :rolleyes: Do you think techs certified to maintain air traffic control radio communications systems (as seen via the link in my sig) know nothing about cooling electronics? Do you think a tech who puts "Heat is the bane of all electronics!" in his signature does so just for fun?

What fact have you expressed other than coolers and cases work?
Thank you! That is the whole point! They "work" as long as you select a decent case suitable for the job, and you set up the case cooling properly to achieve a nice flow of cool air through the case, Do that and the "facts" are, that they "work"! And by "work", that means they will keep the innards sufficiently cooled to ensure stable operation and normal life expectancy without throttling.

I say again, you do NOT have to achieve the coolest temps possible to achieve "satisfactory" cooling.

I have done the testing, you are guessing
And I have decades of real world experience. I am not guessing at all.
 

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Limited? LOL So now you know all about me and how much experience I have supporting electronics systems? :rolleyes: Do you think techs certified to maintain air traffic control radio communications systems (as seen via the link in my sig) know nothing about cooling electronics? Do you think a tech who puts "Heat is the bane of all electronics!" in his signature does so just for fun?

Thank you! That is the whole point! They "work" as long as you select a decent case suitable for the job, and you set up the case cooling properly to achieve a nice flow of cool air through the case, Do that and the "facts" are, that they "work"! And by "work", that means they will keep the innards sufficiently cooled to ensure stable operation and normal life expectancy without throttling.

I say again, you do NOT have to achieve the coolest temps possible to achieve "satisfactory" cooling.

And I have decades of real world experience. I am not guessing at all.

Look, we can bang junk on a desk all day long.

And as I said, and what you seemed to miss from the onset, is that in my opinion, when something "works" it does not imply satisfaction.

Case and point, the Mugen 5 at ~$50 that will hit lets say 55C. Now I go and buy a new Kraken AIO or something like the new Eisbaer, and I get higher temps while spending more, almost triple the investment, I am in no way satisfied with its performance. Perspective is everything!

A motor home works to get me to the store, but with all the choices out there, not many are doing this are they. ;)
 
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And as I said, and what you seemed to miss from the onset, is that in my opinion, when something "works" it does not imply satisfaction.
LOL From the onset, you disputed the "facts". It is only now you exert this is just your "opinion". But fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion.
 

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LOL From the onset, you disputed the "facts". It is only now you exert this is just your "opinion". But fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion.

WOW, really? Maybe you need to go reread my posts instead of just battling them.

From my first post in this thread.... "Just because a cooler "works" does not mean satisfaction is part of it. "

Only time I mentioned facts was in response to where you stated "your" opinion as fact, showing nothing but your opinion. Your idea of satisfactory does not prove the OP was completely wrong in his assessment of his situation.
 
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Case and point, the Mugen 5 at ~$50 that will hit lets say 55C.
Perspective is everything!
I missed your perspective before, you are promoting Mugen 5?
It gains much prominence with faster fans, but I doubt this noise testing chart is just a fluke - that heatsink is a giant impedance trap.
 

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I missed your perspective before, you are promoting Mugen 5?
It gains much prominence with faster fans, but I doubt this noise testing chart is just a fluke - that heatsink is a giant impedance trap.

I am not championing any cooler in particular, it was there just to express my view on the satisfaction part of the conversation.
As to your chart link, the Mugen 5 rev.B I tested only got to 30dB with the fan at 1100RPM. Not sure why that chart shows nearly double the noise value, and at double the distance I use from the cooler.
 
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I am not championing any cooler in particular, it was there just to express my view on the satisfaction part of the conversation.
As to your chart link, the Mugen 5 rev.B I tested only got to 30dB with the fan at 1100RPM. Not sure why that chart shows nearly double the noise value, and at double the distance I use from the cooler.
You know that review is the quietest that Arctic cooler has ever been depicted, right? I could certainly entertain a few pointers as to why...
 

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:roll:
Yeah right. You come in to express your opinion in direct opposition to my comments and that's okay. But when anyone opposes yours, its not so then you launch another of your personal attacks. :( Okay. :rolleyes:

BTW, I was expressing facts, not opinion - other than the "hogwash" parts.

*****

Not sure what you mean by "let you" overheat. A quality "quiet" fan can provide "adequate" cooling too.
I agree. With case cooling, get the largest fans you can. Bigger fans move massive amounts of air and can do so while spinning at slower RPMs - thus quieter operation.

it depends on what is adequate for you. I wouldn’t be content with almost all of the consumer fans most members use. I don’t care about silence at all. I like the noise, let’s me know my pc is still working lol. It’s winter now, nice and cool. Soon it will be summer, and people will be complaining their pc is too hot, and then someone will recommend a nice quiet fan. I use industrials on a controller, and even though I am air cooled, I don’t have to dial back my oc in the summer.

Edit:

I quoted the wrong post
 
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it depends on what is adequate for you. I wouldn’t be content with almost all of the consumer fans most members use. I don’t care about silence at all. I like the noise, let’s me know my pc is still working lol. It’s winter now, nice and cool. Soon it will be summer, and people will be complaining their pc is too hot, and then someone will recommend a nice quiet fan. I use industrials on a controller, and even though I am air cooled, I don’t have to dial back my oc in the summer.

Edit:

I quoted the wrong post
Turbulence is the one factor that correlates one to one with cooling performance.
 

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You know that review is the quietest that Arctic cooler has ever been depicted, right? I could certainly entertain a few pointers as to why...

I am not going to guess as to what he is doing. But I will say I confused the stock cooler yellow with the Mugen yellow-green. He isn't that far off from my reality.

I tested the Freezer 33, hammered it for its lackluster performance, they sent the 34, and it was half a degree better. In my samples, both of which were "louder" by dB than the Mugen I had was.

What many do not factor in either, is that while the towers and fans are built by machines, just about every fan in a cooler series will have various speeds. This is why specifications say plus or minus 300 RPM on most fans. That 600 RPM can make a huge difference if that 1500RPM fan is spinning at 1200 versus 1800, which are both in spec. This causes a lot of variance in charts more than anything, and is why I am sure to denote the fans speed with my acoustic results.
 

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Turbulence is the one factor that correlates one to one with cooling performance.
I like turbulence, lets me know I’m moving enough air :laugh:
 
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I am not going to guess as to what he is doing. But I will say I confused the stock cooler yellow with the Mugen yellow-green. He isn't that far off from my reality.

I tested the Freezer 33, hammered it for its lackluster performance, they sent the 34, and it was half a degree better. In my samples, both of which were "louder" by dB than the Mugen I had was.

What many do not factor in either, is that while the towers and fans are built by machines, just about every fan in a cooler series will have various speeds. This is why specifications say plus or minus 300 RPM on most fans. That 600 RPM can make a huge difference if that 1500RPM fan is spinning at 1200 versus 1800, which are both in spec. This causes a lot of variance in charts more than anything, and is why I am sure to denote the fans speed with my acoustic results.
Don't they normally say +/- 10%?
 

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I guess that would depend on the manufacturer. Extreme case, but on a 2000RPM fan, it is still the difference of 400 RPM across the line of cooler produced.

Example taken from Newegg on a random fan selected.... However, plus or minus 10% is pretty common too.


Dealing with only 1200RPM to start with, that fan could run for some at 950, and others at 1450, creating a total different cooler for two users.
 
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it depends on what is adequate for you. I wouldn’t be content with almost all of the consumer fans most members use. I don’t care about silence at all. I like the noise, let’s me know my pc is still working lol. It’s winter now, nice and cool. Soon it will be summer, and people will be complaining their pc is too hot, and then someone will recommend a nice quiet fan. I use industrials on a controller, and even though I am air cooled, I don’t have to dial back my oc in the summer.

Edit:

I quoted the wrong post
I am running Yate Loon D14BH12 2800RPM 140CM 140 CFM dual ball bearing fans that come out of power supplies, but what is nice is they are PWM and incredibly smooth. They can also run down to 1000 RPM where they aren't very loud. I think I've had them as low as 750ish where they are near silent. The bearing seems really tough, I have two running impeller facing up for several years now. I like them better than the TY143 but the TY form factor is better for my heatsink. The sound profile is quite nice too. They are so smooth they are always the last fans to stop spinning.
 
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I've been doing things all wrong this whole time. Apparently I can consider TPU Forum contribution "recent activity" to support my awards lol. Gonna put this on my next resume.
 

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I am running Yate Loon D14BH12 2800RPM 140CM 140 CFM dual ball bearing fans that come out of power supplies, but what is nice is they are PWM and incredibly smooth. They can also run down to 1000 RPM where they aren't very loud. I think I've had them as low as 750ish where they are near silent. The bearing seems really tough, I have two running impeller facing up for several years now. I like them better than the TY143 but the TY form factor is better for my heatsink. The sound profile is quite nice too. They are so smooth they are always the last fans to stop spinning.

I hear you man! My Panaflos have been in service with me since 2005 or so. Lots of life left in them. I normally run them at 7v, it’s fairly quiet. At 12v I still hear my TY143 over them. They spent their first decade with me at a solid 12v. They are a bit loud at that point, no effs given though.

Big fans are a tough sell these days, as most people prefer aesthetics over performance.
 
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it depends on what is adequate for you.
No it doesn't! Some seem to think it is their opinion that determines the technical specifications for proper cooling. That's hogwash nonsense - if not total arrogance! The manufacturer determines that based on design, and the physical characteristics and properties of the materials used in construction. Neither you nor me get to decide what those specification are - and I haven't in this thread either.

What is adequate for you and me is a totally separate thing that may, or may not apply to others. If a Intel 8700K is pushing 70°C when taxed, and Intel has specified a maximum Tjunction temp of 100°C, then it is a technical fact that that CPU is getting adequate cooling - even though you (and me) may prefer to see it never sit above 60°C for more than a couple seconds.

Just because a person's "opinion" may deem 70°C inadequate, that does not make it a technical fact.

Nor does sitting at 70°C automatically imply the CPU cooler does not "work" or is inadequate. If the case is not supplying a sufficient supply of cool air flowing through the case, then it is either a mismatched case for the components inside, or case cooling is improperly set up - either scenarios indicate a failure on the part of the user, not the CPU cooler.

Even the most efficient air cooler found in sneekypeets tests is ineffective at properly cooling the CPU when flow of cool air through the case is inadequate.

Now if your personal opinion dictates that your CPU temp must never breach the 30°C threshold (as an arbitrary example), then that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion and I personally have no problem with that. And if you are shooting for lowest possible, that is fine too. But understand that is for bragging rights. Do not pretend that personal opinion applies across the board for everyone. For if that were even remotely true, there would be 100s of million of stock Dell, HP, Acer, Lenova and Apple unstable and/or throttled computers out there over heating and dying prematurely. And that is just not happening.

Neither are there millions and millions of AMD or Intel processors that come today with OEM coolers being recalled because their coolers don't work or are inadequate. That's not happening either.

Would I accept my 9700K sitting above 70°C for more than a few seconds? NO! But that's just my personal preference. In fact, when my temps start sitting above 60°C for longer than a few seconds, I start to investigate my cooling. Typically, it means I need to clean my filters. And typically, my temps sit well below 40°. But there are no expectations my CPU will run better, be more stable or last longer running at 40° than it would at 50°.

***

Big fans are a tough sell these days, as most people prefer aesthetics over performance.
Huh? Aesthetics over performance? And "most people"? Ummm, no. What does fan size have to do with aesthetics? Are you saying an 80mm fan looks nicer than a 140mm fan? Or that a fan that looks nice can't perform too?

In the old days, cases typically came with 80mm fans (or often just one 80mm fan). Then 120mm became the norm. Today, most are 140mm. Some are even bigger. And I don't see where aesthetics come into play - especially since most people don't gawk in wide-eyed wonder at the interior of their cases. And, or course, larger fans are often preferred simply because they tend to be quieter since they can move the same (or more) amount of air while spinning slower - thus quieter.
 
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If you are into sound deadening, I think this makes for a good reference benchmark to test out how far you can throttle the fans.
 
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