ThrottleStop not consistent with FID values

[Fridj]

Hello , I just registered to ask some questions about my undervoltage setup.
I have a Lenovo Y700-15ISK Laptop (ideapad) - Type 80NV bought brand new in 2017.

As of late I started tweaking it, with the goal to play some heavier triple A games on this 5 years old gaming laptop, achieving some actually very good results, I really do love this platform... I started using throttlestop a month ago for undervolting , EVGA Prestige for GPU overclocking (GTX 960m 4 GB) and memory OC (16 GB)

Problem is, yesterday I started having some issues while running one game with which I never had issues with before (NFS Heat), and my laptop Orange screened me with a BSOD (well.. it was an OrangeSOD).
After the automatic reboot it got stuck in bootloop and I couldn't even access BIOS... I found out that switching my SSD (1 TB) , putting it inside my other laptop DELL G5 and switching it back to the Lenovo achieved in resetting some unknown parameters (it's entirely speculation) and then the Lenovo granted me access to BIOS and successfully booted up.
I checked thoroughly my settings in order to find if something went wrong in my overall setup, and I found that Throttlestop was displaying FID numbers up to 26 (multiplier is set to 35T) when plugged in, but it wouldn't switch to lower numbers when unplugged and running on battery, for which profile I have set a multiplier of 14 which would result in FID 8.

I started thinking that maybe this exact thing happened while I was playing that resource intensive game, the FID was actually stuck on the 8 value, which was the battery profile value, since I remember that I was switching between Battery and Performance profile prior to booting up the game, because I left it for a while on the battery profile (even if the Pc was plugged in) just to make it run cooler, but I needed the Game/performance profile in order to play so I switched before booting the game.

So I started fiddling with the setup and found out that the FID values aren't displaying properly for me.
Whenever I unplug the laptop from AC the FID numbers scaled down from 26 to 8, and they immediately rise back up to 26, no matter what I'd do, preventing me to lower the CPU clockspeed.
I tried rebooting twice but throttlestop would keep behaving the same way (program is set to start at windows acces through OS task planning utility).

I then shut the system off, entered Bios to check if there was some option but found none, so I booted back the system and now Throttlestop was behaving like it should- but I'm afraid it's no guarantee it will keep doing so next time.
I primarily leave the laptop in sleep mode so I can easily boot it up through external wireless USB keyboard, since I use the laptop with closed lid, set vertically with a stand on my desk with external monitor plugged in since I found is the best way to assure optimal ventilation and air flow, and constantly switching it on and off would require me to take it down from the stand, unplugging it from every USB and would just be too much of a hussle, so that's why I leave it in sleep mode instead of shutting it down.
My question is this: is this behaviour normal? Does someone have an idea on why this occurs? I uploaded some screeshots of my throttletop setup - now it works as it should so the battery profile shows FID 8.
The question is , is there some specific setting that maybe is causing this?

My laptop:

Machine name: LAPTOP-PCVK48BL
Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64-bit (10.0, Build 19041) (19041.vb_release.191206-1406)
System Manufacturer: LENOVO
System Model: 80NV
BIOS: CDCN54WW (type: UEFI)
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.6GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16244MB RAM
Page File: 10978MB used, 10897MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 12
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: 168 DPI (175 percent)
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Supported
DirectX Database Version: 1.1.5
DxDiag Version: 10.00.19041.0084 64bit Unicode


23/08/2020
EDIT 1: Ok it just started doing it again. I put the laptop on sleep for a few hours and when I woke it Throttlestop began behaving like I explained before. I attached a new screenshot to document this -btw I just updated to Throttlestop 9.2

23/08/2020
EDIT 2: I wanted to check if the sequence of the actions sleep/reboot/shut off completely-turn on would have some influence on the behaviour of the program, so I just tested: turns out that it doesn't matter if I put the laptop on sleep mode or if I shut it down completely and turn on or just reboot it, Throttlestop doesn't ever lower the FID numbers anymore, even by selecting the power saver profile or by unplugging the pc from AC. If I unplug it, it briefely lowers the FID from 26 to 8, but then it pushes them up reaching first 9, 10, 11, 20 etc until 26 in a mattery of 2 seconds and then stays constant on 26.

 

[Caring1]

Let me get this right, you lock ratio to 26, then wonder why it won't stay under that?

 

[Fridj]

Hi, yes as I understand the Non turbo ratio in FIVR window set to 26 lets Throttlestop use the power management profile correctly.
I took the info from a guide, I'm no expert at this at all, that's why I'm asking someone more knowledgeable than me to help me take a look at this.
I followed this guide:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Lenovo/comments/49uma8

and the quote is "just does something funny in Throttlestop, at 26 it lets us use power saver mode correctly"

 

[unclewebb]

Non turbo ratio in FIVR window set to 26 lets Throttlestop use the power management profile correctly.

A Non Turbo Ratio setting of 0 allows the power management profile to work correctly. Do not lock this to 1 or 26. I would delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file, reboot, and go back to square one.

Your CPU is a locked CPU. Leave the turbo ratio limits at their default values of 35, 33, 32, 31. Setting these higher is ignored by the CPU. Do not check Set Multiplier, Disable Turbo, Power Saver or BD PROCHOT.

Your CPU supports Speed Shift Technology which does a great job of managing the CPU speed and power consumption. This is the preferred way to control your laptop CPU. Go in the TPL window and enable Speed Shift. Press Apply. Now set the Speed Shift Min and Max values to whatever is listed in the range box. Should be 1 and 35 for Min and Max. Press OK and on the main screen of ThrottleStop you should see SST in green.

On the main screen, check the Speed Shift EPP box and adjust the EPP value for different profiles. Fox maximum CPU speed and performance set EPP to 0. For a Balanced profile, set EPP to 80. A setting of 128 is a less aggressive Balanced profile but it might sacrifice a little bit of CPU speed. A setting of 192 might be useful for a battery profile. I would not go beyond 192. A slow CPU is not an efficient CPU. People like to see 800 MHz but this does not save energy if a CPU has something that it needs to do. A slow CPU can be an inefficient CPU and will end up wasting more energy than it saves.

Set your voltages consistently for each profile. Your voltage settings are either stable or they are not stable. No need to run different voltages for different profiles. That just makes testing more difficult.

Have you done any stability testing with the CPU core and cache at -160 mV? That seems a little aggressive but if you have done some testing, that is great. Run Cinebench R20 and run a few TS Bench tests, light load tests like 1 or 2 Threads and some full load tests. Make sure that these tests do not show any errors.

When adjusting the Intel GPU voltage you also need to adjust the iGPU Unslice voltage equally. If you have an Nvidia GPU then I would either not bother or I would save this for last after you have got everything else sorted out.

In the Windows Power Options just use the default Balanced profile for everything. No need to check this new option in ThrottleStop 9.2. Your Speed Shift settings will control your CPU speed so you do not have to be concerned about what Windows profile you are set to. Keep it simple.

Stop following obsolete guides. That guide is over 4 years old. Speed Shift Technology is a way better laptop CPU control method than what came before it.

 

[Fridj]

woo a reply from unclewebb himself, I feel honoured.
I'm about to delete my .ini profile, and follow your suggestions, just some clarification from your post:

A Non Turbo Ratio setting of 0 allows the power management profile to work correctly.

Should I set my low power profile to 0? Should I locked? or does my skylake CPU SST manage everything itself?

Now set the Speed Shift Min and Max values to whatever is listed in the range box. Should be 1 and 35 for Min and Max.

It's actually 1 and 255, and the range is 1..255
Should I change these settings as you mentioned?

Set your voltages consistently for each profile. Your voltage settings are either stable or they are not stable. No need to run different voltages for different profiles. That just makes testing more difficult.

Sorry you say here to set voltages for each profile first (I assume for battery and performance), but then contradict this saying there's no need to run different voltages for different profiles (so battery and performance should have the same voltages values?)

Have you done any stability testing with the CPU core and cache at -160 mV? That seems a little aggressive but if you have done some testing, that is great. Run Cinebench R20 and run a few TS Bench tests, light load tests like 1 or 2 Threads and some full load tests. Make sure that these tests do not show any errors.

Yes I tested throughfully and played every kind of taxing game I have, for extended periods of time. I'm about to run more testing as you suggest

When adjusting the Intel GPU voltage you also need to adjust the iGPU Unslice voltage equally. If you have an Nvidia GPU then I would either not bother or I would save this for last after you have got everything else sorted out.

Yeah the Nvidia gpu isn't the internal GPU though, it's dedicated. My BIOS only allows for Switchable or Inernal GPU, no way to make the Nvidia the preferred one. So I would actually leave those fields blank... would you reccommend this?

Thank you very much for your time, and for developing this amazing software... just one more thing, allowing SST made my CPU clock go up above 2,33 GHz and reach 3 GHz... wouldn' this mean it's overclocking my CPU? Isn't it actually borderline dangerous and against what the software was developed for, meaning lowering voltages and heat output? just curious

 

[unclewebb]

Leave the Non Turbo Ratio at whatever value the BIOS sets it to. This value is ignored when using Speed Shift.

It's actually 1 and 255, and the range is 1..255

You have to follow the directions.

Go in the TPL window and enable Speed Shift. Press Apply. Now set the Speed Shift Min and Max values to whatever is listed in the range box.

You need to press the Apply button so the numbers in the Range box get updated. Values of 1 and 35 are appropriate for your CPU.

Set your voltages consistently for each profile.

How about, set your voltages exactly the same for each profile. Offset voltages that are proven to be 100% stable should be stable regardless of whether you are using a fast profile or a slower battery profile.

At the moment, I would leave the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice offset voltages at their default values which is +0.0000. After you get everything sorted out, then you can consider going back and playing with these voltages.

SST made my CPU clock go up above 2,33 GHz and reach 3 GHz

That sounds wonderful. The 6700HQ is a locked CPU. That means you cannot overclock it so Speed Shift Technology is only using what is already there. Here are the specs for your CPU.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core%20i7-6700HQ%20Mobile%20processor.html

When 1 core is active, it is allowed to use the 35 multiplier so it can run at up to 3500 MHz. If you want to get technical, your BCLK speed is 99.767 MHz so 3491.845 MHz. (35.00 x 99.767 MHz). As more cores become active, the multiplier automatically drops.

This is how Intel designed this CPU to run. It uses Intel Turbo Boost. The actual CPU multiplier being used can be changing internally hundreds of times per second depending on the task. Let your CPU run as Intel intended. A fast CPU is a good thing. This is the whole reason that Intel developed Speed Shift Technology.

Microsoft kept pushing the slow CPU agenda. Intel realized that a slow CPU is not a good thing at all. If a CPU has a task to perform, holding it back to 800 MHz is the worst thing you can do. Much better to let a CPU quickly get up to full speed. This gets the background tasks done quickly. When finished, the core can enter one of the low power states like C7 where it is disconnected from the voltage rail and disconnected from the internal clock. In the C7 state, individual cores are running at 0 volts and 0 MHz. That is the best way for a modern CPU to save power.

Forcing a core to run at 800 MHz when it has a task to complete means it will spend over 4 times as long slowly grinding away in the C0 state. That does not save power.

borderline dangerous

Definitely not. Your CPU is not capable of doing anything that Intel did not design it to do. ThrottleStop will help put a smile on your CPU's face. It will allow it to perform better while consuming less power. A win, win situation.