ThrottleStop ratio limit changes don't apply anymore

[c3m]

Hello all,

Up until 2 days ago everything was working like clockwork, voltages, V/F points, multipliers etc was working perfectly. It all changed with intel igpu driver update, no bios, no other new changes. I updated like I usually do: downloaded the package > went offline > deleted intel graphics apps > DDU nuke in safe mode reboot > install drivers from file while offline. But for some reason after this my changes in ratios are not going thru.

Did the driver reinstall process twice with latest, and twice with the previous driver. No change.
Deleted throttlestop.ini, shutdown not restart many times. Only affects voltages, ratios don't reset and changes in ThrottleStop doesn't apply. I'm still able to actively change voltages.

ie, I'm running cinebench for load and and set 40x on P-cores, however stuck at 38x whatever I change them to.

laptop: razer blade 16 2023 / i9-13950HX / RTX4080 / 32GB / 1TB NVMe / Win11 24H2

Your help is greatly appreciated.

edit: I also noticed before and after reboot voltages in HWinfo as below too, I don't have ThrottleStop as scheduled at startup. never did. When I run it it comes back to before SS voltages.

 

[unclewebb]

The ThrottleStop screenshot shows that your offset voltages are being applied correctly.

I don't have ThrottleStop as scheduled at startup

If you do not run ThrottleStop it is not going to apply the offset voltages. If you do not add ThrottleStop to the Task Scheduler then you will need to manually run ThrottleStop each time you boot up or resume from stand by if ThrottleStop is not already running.

Use ThrottleStop 9.7.3
This new version has access to the Per Core settings so you can check if all of the P and E cores are set correctly.

Check that Speed Shift is checked in the TPL window and Speed Shift Max is set to the max, 255. Try using the Windows High Performance power plan.

Some people have trouble with the MMIO Lock function. Clear that box in the TPL window and reboot.

Post a screenshot of the TPL window.

When the P cores are stuck at 38X, does the Limit Reasons window show any reasons for throttling lighting up red under the CORE column?

I like to set Power Limit 4 to the max 1023 and I set IccMax for the CPU Core, P Cache, Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice all to the max, 511.75

HWiNFO shows the Dynamic power limits going down to 55 Watts. That can cause problems. Check the Sync MMIO box in the TPL window so the MSR and MMIO power limits are the same.

 

[c3m]

The ThrottleStop screenshot shows that your offset voltages are being applied correctly.

Yes, there are no problem with voltage controls, the issue is ratios. Or the changes in TS not applying anymore.

If you do not run ThrottleStop it is not going to apply the offset voltages. If you do not add ThrottleStop to the Task Scheduler then you will need to manually run ThrottleStop each time you boot up or resume from stand by if ThrottleStop is not already running.

Yes, I am aware, I like and enjoy using it like this But my point was that after reboot, before running TS, HWinfo showing +135mV on Pcore, meaning +135mv from V/F is being applied, -110mV on Ecore meaning -voltage offset is being applied without TS running. Am I interpreting wrong?

- I never adjusted anything in TPL, only used for checking what razer performance profile limits were.

- Weird E core ratios popped up on 9.7.3 when I ran it. as 40x255

- Also ratios in either grouping or per core in TS 9.7.3 is also not applying changes. I set to 40x on P / 28x on E cores but still running at 38/26 under load. Nothing under limit reasons. Also trying to bring them down to 36/24x not working neither.

I'm wondering if there's any sure fire way you can suggest to reset everything in for voltages, ratios, rules TS did so far so? Like does this write to microcode, would rolling back to razer default and back to 12B?

 

[unclewebb]

The Per Core values should be set to Defaults. If the BIOS or some software is setting those incorrectly, that is why your P cores are being limited to the 38 multiplier.

The Now column of the Per Core window shows what the maximum Per Core turbo ratios are set to. Check the Use Limits box, press the Defaults button and press OK.

If you want to adjust the max CPU speed, only do that in the FIVR Turbo Groups.

Weird E core ratios popped up on 9.7.3 when I ran it. as 40x255

I do not think it matters. Try pushing the All Core 40 button. Default is 40 x 16 since there are 16 E cores. When you first run ThrottleStop, if there is no ThrottleStop.INI file found, ThrottleStop will read the default values from the CPU. Those would be the values that the BIOS has set the CPU to.

 

[c3m]

I do not think it matters. Try pushing the All Core 40 button. Default is 40 x 16 since there are 16 E cores. When you first run ThrottleStop, if there is no ThrottleStop.INI file found, ThrottleStop will read the default values from the CPU. Those would be the values that the BIOS has set the CPU to.

Exactly my point of asking for a surefire way for nuking things. If not I'm also OK with the answer no.

- Image you clipped is the one I got when I opened 9.7.3. As a `it reads this` on default. I made the corrections about defaults as you suggested.

- Still unable to change multipliers. per core being all default, has no effect. Setting grouping to higher/lower ratios don't take effect.

When you first run ThrottleStop, if there is no ThrottleStop.INI file found, ThrottleStop will read the default values from the CPU. Those would be the values that the BIOS has set the CPU to.

I'd like to revert everything if possible. Rolling back to factory default microcode(112) haven't fixed it. So since this is the voltages I see when I launch the laptop and before opening TS, I believe at some point TS adjustments have been written to BIOS or something? What would cause this and how can we revert this? Since my BIOS is quite limited and Razer doesn't allow any voltage/ratio changes from BIOS. I only ever used TS, never even installed XTU or any other software.

 

[unclewebb]

per core being all default

Set the Per Core window to default values and check the Use Limits box. Open and close the Per Core window a few times. Does the Per Core Now column show the default values or does it show a column of 38 max multipliers for the P cores again? The Now column should never show all of the P cores set to 38 max. My best guess is either the BIOS did that or some other software on your computer set these values all to 38.

Completely shutdown your computer when testing. Some computers do not reset all of the various control registers when you reboot. Run HWiNFO after you first start up. HWiNFO should not be showing any offset voltage values. When you run Cinebench, does the CPU go up to full speed or is it limited to the 38 multiplier?

Open up Power Options and press the Restore plan defaults button. It is possible that some software made a change to your power plan settings. You can also test using different power plans to see if that makes any difference.

I believe at some point TS adjustments have been written to BIOS

ThrottleStop does not have the ability to write anything to the BIOS.

I know a lot of different ways that Intel CPUs can have their speed limited but I do not know all of the ways. I do not know what might have changed just recently to cause the issue you are having.

Edit - Are you running any Razer control software?

 

[c3m]

- I restored power plan to defaults. Same scenario on all power plans. I have Razer Synapse installed but I've disabled that on startup to simplify things and get to the root of this. This is the HWinfo right after a shutdown not restart. You can see multipliers are locked 38/26 and voltages are off. CPU core either applies undervolt and V/F or nothing, P cache and E undervolts are being applied without V/F on cache.Before running TS.

- After running TS. I see everything to their defaults regarding multipliers, CPU grouping and per core comes as defaults, I manually reset the voltages to zero offset. Applying like this seems to be working now on cores and multipliers.

- However after another shutdown cycle, the same thing as first screenshot is happening again, 38/26x on cores and undervolt values from first HWinfo screenshot.

When you run Cinebench, does the CPU go up to full speed or is it limited to the 38 multiplier?

When I run after shutdown cycle, before running TS: it is limited to 38/26x. When I run TS it ramps to stock values with no issues.

The Now column should never show all of the P cores set to 38 max. My best guess is either the BIOS did that or some other software on your computer set these values all to 38.

I'm wondering how this could be since I only ever used TS, I don't even use the `enable overclocking` option in Synapse performance menu to adjust volts/PL limits etc.

ps. I'm quite thankful and grateful for your patience on this.

 

[unclewebb]

I have Razer Synapse installed but I've disabled that on startup

Consider completely uninstalling Synapse when testing. Some of these apps have so many bits and pieces that it is hard to say what might be left running in the background when they are still installed.

Based on your testing, either the BIOS or some software running on your computer is automatically undervolting your CPU. It is also limiting the maximum CPU speed. Someone, somewhere must have thought this would be a good idea to try and control the excess heat that mobile HX processors can produce.

I have a similar 14900HX. Even with a -150 mV undervolt, it still needs 230W to run both the P and the E cores at their full rated speed during Cinebench. The heatsink and fan in your laptop are struggling to keep the CPU from thermal throttling when power consumption is only at the 130W level. Inadequate cooling really limits the maximum performance of 13th and 14th Gen HX processors.

In your first post you said that up until two days ago, everything was working great. Was there a recent BIOS update or a Windows update or anything else you can think of that might have changed? It does not make sense that the Intel GPU driver could be causing this. It seems much more likely that it is something directly related to Razer.

Your 13950HX works correctly when it is setup correctly so it is not like the CPU is suddenly failing.

Some older versions of ThrottleStop used to set the Per Core values to the max automatically. It is possible that you have had this problem for a while. You might not have realized it if ThrottleStop was fixing things by automatically setting the Per Core values to the max. Adding the new Per Core window to ThrottleStop allows users to manage the Per Core limits themselves.

I'm quite thankful and grateful for your patience on this.

You are welcome. I always like trying to solve a mystery.

Attached is a screenshot that confirms typical power consumption at full speed. Maybe the Razer thermal engineers need to go back to school. Improved cooling and performance with less fan noise is an easy way to improve customer satisfaction.

 

[c3m]

Euraka!

Since I was adamant to find what is causing this, long before my start of undervolt journey, I've read along all things related Intel XTU and ThrottleStop accordingly and decided TS was the way to go for me.

But a lightbulb in my head lit up and I went like: what I'm going through sounds very much like Intel XTU saving voltage&ratio adjustments if you uninstall it without resetting to factory defaults.

More research led me to find a `RazerXTU` being present in my laptop, regardless of synapse running on startup.

I also cross checked the Intel XTU factory reset/uninstall guides to find `XtuService needs end task from task manager` And what do you know, ending that task caused me a laptop crash with no BSOD no nothing, just restart. This fixed all the values being written already. Trying to end that task now does not cause crash and it just launches again in a bit.

This leads me to believe during somewhere within that iGPU driver update, razer XTU chose to overwrite my TS adjustments as default. Crashing the laptop by force shutting down when no TS, no HWinfo, nothing seems to have resetted the situation.

I now correctly see factory default multipliers and only see my V/F points being a positive increase on core voltages in HWinfo after reboot, but as soon as I launch TS, undervolts go live and for reference if I set 40/28 on p/e core multipliers respectively, it immediately goes live.

Note to self: Razer synapse have XTU inbuilt which can cause issues with overwriting defaults. Points to you: I wouldn't even wondered and looked out for this if you haven't intrigued me.

This post can now be closed it seems, once again! THANK YOU for your time and patience, that is extremely appreciated!!!