TSMC Employees Experiencing Problems in Arizona

[Icon Charlie]

Let's be honest 95% of the reason is taxes. If they are saving 10 billion / year in taxes, they can easily pay to relocate people and for any resources they need.

There's a bigger downside to giving a corporation a pass on taxes, in that the people of that state themselves foot the bill for that company. Not just in the upfront subsidies but also the infrastructure cost. Roads, schools, police, if a company isn't paying into those everyone else has to pay more to cover the free loader. All for this company to attract more wealthy residents who will likely drive up housing prices and drive local residents out. All the while both the company and new residents push for even further tax benefits specifically for themselves and further place the burden of taxes on your average joe.

IMO what's been explained in the article seems logical given what's happening / going to happen.



You are conflating something being inaccurate with you disagreeing with how's it's measured. Yes, given the current methodology Ireland is over-represented but I don't see how that suddenly makes the rest of the data irrelevant.

The chart was provided by Our Workd in Data, which is partnered with the worlds biggest Universities: https://ourworldindata.org/about

This information is used on most websites including wikipedia. I would say there is significant credibility behind it.




Your argument was that Taiwan was more efficient, not that they can stretch their income further. Mind you the chart I linked has nothing to do with income or the purchasing power of said income, it's merely the amount of GDP produced per working hour. It's not the actual amount people take home in the US. The vast majority of the fruits of labor in the US goes increasingly to the 1%, hence why the median wage is a mere 17.02 or barley enough to support just yourself (in most states) with a 40 hour work week.

Just for reference Taiwan has a cost of living index of 54.2 while the US is at 72.4 so it would be inaccurate to say that purchasing power drops to 1/4 or less when it doesn't reach even 1/2 or less. Living in Taiwan on average costs 74% as much as living in the US.

I agree with this comment.

 

[PhantomTaco]

The Taiwanese are arguably more efficient. Period.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is based on how they treat their engineers:

• They expect them to work absolutely ludicrous hours
• They give them extreme deadlines/goals, and in turn expect their engineers to get it done at any cost, including changing machine parameters that often end up having tools go down/require vendor repair. When they get caught doing this (because these changes are always tracked by the tool itself), they claim they did nothing and try to throw the vendors under the bus
• They have zero appreciation for work life balance
• Heavy micromanagement
• Multiple managers expecting you to prioritize them, and your own manager will do nothing to help

There comes a point where you need to ask where do you draw the line between excessive work demands and claims of "efficiency". Personally, I think that TSMC's current model only works because of Taiwan's cultural view on: Your life is second, your work is first. No other major fab player stresses this as hard as they do, and it's going to continue to be a rude awakening to TSMC as they try to branch out and set up manufacturing in just about any other country in the world.

EDIT: Just to talk to the first point, I'm not talking about 12 hour shift engineers on compressed work weeks. I'm talking process engineers etc that end up putting in 70+ hours a week because of demands from management.

 

[Flanker]

That's one way to look at it. The other way is based on how they treat their engineers:

• They expect them to work absolutely ludicrous hours
• They give them extreme deadlines/goals, and in turn expect their engineers to get it done at any cost, including changing machine parameters that often end up having tools go down/require vendor repair. When they get caught doing this (because these changes are always tracked by the tool itself), they claim they did nothing and try to throw the vendors under the bus
• They have zero appreciation for work life balance
• Heavy micromanagement
• Multiple managers expecting you to prioritize them, and your own manager will do nothing to help

There comes a point where you need to ask where do you draw the line between excessive work demands and claims of "efficiency". Personally, I think that TSMC's current model only works because of Taiwan's cultural view on: Your life is second, your work is first. No other major fab player stresses this as hard as they do, and it's going to continue to be a rude awakening to TSMC as they try to branch out and set up manufacturing in just about any other country in the world.

EDIT: Just to talk to the first point, I'm not talking about 12 hour shift engineers on compressed work weeks. I'm talking process engineers etc that end up putting in 70+ hours a week because of demands from management.

You just summed up my personal experiences in typical Taiwanese and Chinese companies, like totally hitting the nail on the head.

 

[erocker]

reminder that FOXCONN, the company with the suicide nets, was also a Taiwanese company. FOXCONN also struggled to find people stateside. Funny that….

FoxCONN and right wing politicians displaced a bunch of families in my state, built a "factory" that lays dormant. Those who were a part of the grift, took the money and ran..

 

[Minus Infinity]

Do you seriously think that 100 dollars has the same purchasing power in taiwan and the US? I would say that in the US the purchasing power drops to 1/4 or less, houses that are not worth 200-300k USD are sold for millions. Everything is much more expensive.

I was referring to efficiency, from the point of view of salary paid vs result, in the US employees will be paid twice as much to have the same standard of living as Taiwanese employees receiving less.

I agree and it's far worse in many other countries other than health care costs. Australia was once the cheapest developed nation only 20 years ago, now it's one of the msot expensive in the world. Long before the latest dramas with inflation and fuel and food and mortgages Australia had been on a meteoric increase in costs in pretty much every thing you can name. The last 3 years have now just added misery on top of pain.

You just summed up my personal experiences in typical Taiwanese and Chinese companies, like totally hitting the nail on the head.

I can say 4 years working for a Japanese company was also a soul destroying experience and I even contemplated suicide at one stage. I've heard Korean companies are even worse. Never ever would I work for an Asian company again.

 

[PhantomTaco]

I agree and it's far worse in many other countries other than health care costs. Australia was once the cheapest developed nation only 20 years ago, now it's one of the msot expensive in the world. Long before the latest dramas with inflation and fuel and food and mortgages Australia had been on a meteoric increase in costs in pretty much every thing you can name. The last 3 years have now just added misery on top of pain.


I can say 4 years working for a Japanese company was also a soul destroying experience and I even contemplated suicide at one stage. I've heard Korean companies are even worse. Never ever would I work for an Asian company again.

All Asian tech companies aren't that bad, there are some that just have a serious reputation for it. Others also do a good job of acclimating to different cultures when setting up shop abroad. One company I know of set up shop a while back in the US, and after working their engineers to extremes had half of a division end up quitting in the span of a year. Since then, they've drastically reworked their policies and corporate culture to better align while still meeting the goals they wanted for the location.

 

[the54thvoid]

Thread locked for toxic BS. Points given.