TSMC Trade Secrets Stolen - Former Engineer Arrested In China

[Boosnie]

That's the industry as such... There are Russian, Israeli, Italian, French etc spies... everywhere where some kind of military tech is developed such passionate charades happen, It's an old cold war tradition.

And then NSA wiped out all the competition.

That's a fact, not something I made up or because I'd secretly hate Chinese. Chinese would do ANYTHING to make a business. Copy, steal, go the shortest shortcuts one can make to create products etc. And yes, that IS for a fact so deeply ingrained in their culture it's basically impossible to root it out now. Or ever probably. Don't mix in ancient China to Communist China. It's not related to one another AT ALL. What we're talking here is China of today and that's their global MO. Especially for companies that operate within China only because global laws pretty much don't apply to them. And this doesn't just go for our beloved electronics, they even do it for example growing of vegetables. They'll pour whatever chemicals and fertilizers they can get to make the thing grow at maximal rate regardless of how toxic and harmful it is to the end consumer. It's just business business business.

Only time Chinese companies have to actually begin obeying business laws and practices of the west is when they go global. Because they are simply forced into this. But having such massive market as China, basically anyone good enough at stealing and copying can become big to enter global markets. And it's easier to start doing that when you're already big than for example European or American startups that have to start from zero in a proper way without just copying someone's design and learning from that pretty much for free.

You can call me racist or Chinese hater, but that's all a fact, I'm more surprised you're not aware of it...

Ok, let's make the meaning of words clear.
When you say "engrained in their culture" in the reader is created an image of ancient chinese emperors making Ming porcelains as in Ghost just after stealing the procedure to produce it.
The truth is china was a rural, pre industrialization economy just until 1980. There is really truly nothing of what you perceive as their way of living "engrained in their culture".

Moreover, if you think that western patent system is something that can result in an advantage for the consumer you are wrong.
There is nothing that says that the western way is THE way. Open economical competition truly involve different meanings and levels of the word "copy".

 

[RejZoR]

Well, if you understand it that way, that's really your problem. One doesn't need 1000's of years to ingrain something in someone's culture to such extent. As we can see here, few decades is enough...

And I'm aware of west doing similar, but there is one big difference usually. Even if western company steals some competitor info, they don't blatantly copy it into their product. They'll say, ok, we got this info, what can we do with it to make our products better. And then their engineers try to figure out what competition has done better. That's how progress and innovations happen. China simply doesn't give a damn and just blatantly copies it. Not all, but majority does. Again, like I've said, they are forced to abandon their ways once they go global, because patents and lawsuits would kill them.

 

[Prima.Vera]

That's a fact, not something I made up or because I'd secretly hate Chinese. Chinese would do ANYTHING to make a business. Copy, steal, go the shortest shortcuts one can make to create products etc. And yes, that IS for a fact so deeply ingrained in their culture it's basically impossible to root it out now. Or ever probably. Don't mix in ancient China to Communist China. It's not related to one another AT ALL. What we're talking here is China of today and that's their global MO. Especially for companies that operate within China only because global laws pretty much don't apply to them. And this doesn't just go for our beloved electronics, they even do it for example growing of vegetables. They'll pour whatever chemicals and fertilizers they can get to make the thing grow at maximal rate regardless of how toxic and harmful it is to the end consumer. It's just business business business.

Only time Chinese companies have to actually begin obeying business laws and practices of the west is when they go global. Because they are simply forced into this. But having such massive market as China, basically anyone good enough at stealing and copying can become big to enter global markets. And it's easier to start doing that when you're already big than for example European or American startups that have to start from zero in a proper way without just copying someone's design and learning from that pretty much for free.

You can call me racist or Chinese hater, but that's all a fact, I'm more surprised you're not aware of it...

@laszlo
There is a difference between lending your excellent engineering skills and just plain handing them over the blueprints...

While I agree that 95% of any type of food coming from China is pure poison and shouldn't be allowed on any country, the same is valid for U.S. and some of the western European Countries. The food industry on those countries is just focused on callous profit and extra callous profit with absolutely NO REGARDS for human health and/or long term effects over humans.
While is no related to the topic at hand, what is related are those big countries trying to do profit in any way, despite of any common sense or fair practices.

 

[Boosnie]

One doesn't need 1000's of years to ingrain something in someone's culture to such extent. As we can see here, few decades is enough...

Such as?

And I'm aware of west doing similar, but there is one big difference usually. Even if western company steals some competitor info, they don't blatantly copy it into their product. They'll say, ok, we got this info, what can we do with it to make our products better. And then their engineers try to figure out what competition has done better. That's how progress and innovations happen. China simply doesn't give a damn and just blatantly copies it. Not all, but majority does. Again, like I've said, they are forced to abandon their ways once they go global, because patents and lawsuits would kill them.

This is outright wrong.
Set aside that the process you describe for western companies trying to figure out how to innovate on stolen material is an embellishment of "trying not to get cought" and that's not wat innovation relies upon, the assertion that chinese industrial revolution is largely based on exploiting and copying western products is bogus.
China is going all the way out to innovate and create a cradle for the next generation drive of national growth(they are launching a frigging space station!). You can find a lot of data on chinese scientific production in the last 20 years online and all this data says one thing: in the last 10 years the scientific and engeenering output of the country has grown 100 folds.

But then, let's put into the discussion the fact that the knowledge of cheap counterfeiting has come to china solely through western companies outsurcing production to exploit slaverish labour costs (destroying our economy in the process).

 

[RejZoR]

Lol, that's not "trying not to get caught". Looking upon competitor products and improving yours based on that is what drives innovation forward. Stealing blueprints and making same thing with zero effort is what doesn't. Isn't this kinda self explanatory? If you're forced to think outside of box not to infringe existing designs and patents, what is a better way to innovate than this?

 

[Boosnie]

Lol, that's not "trying not to get caught". Looking upon competitor products and improving yours based on that is what drives innovation forward. Stealing blueprints and making same thing with zero effort is what doesn't. Isn't this kinda self explanatory? If you're forced to think outside of box not to infringe existing designs and patents, what is a better way to innovate than this?

Dude you wrote it for yourself.

Even if western company steals some competitor info, they don't blatantly copy it into their product. They'll say, ok, we got this info, what can we do with it to make our products better.

If you're forced to think outside of box not to infringe existing designs and patents, what is a better way to innovate than this?

You have no idea how the patent system works, do you?

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

thinking outside the box is called innovation.

 

[RejZoR]

Dude you wrote it for yourself.



You have no idea how the patent system works, do you?

And neither do you. Patents do not necessarily protect an outcome, they can only protect a mechanism or delivery for that outcome only. Getting same outcome using different mechanism can still be allowed.

And oh noes for not putting steal in quotes like "steal". How many times do I have to say stealing ones blueprints is very different to taking a retail competitor product, disassembling it and learning from that? Jesus...

 

[r9]

The ignorance level at TPU is truly amazing. At scientific research Chinese has been advancing faster than any other nation on this planet and yes that is including the good old USA. Our funding for scientific research has been horrible for quite some time. NIH, NSF and DOE haven't seen much budget increase for a very long time. A lot of labs have been closed due to lack of funding. While at the same time China has been recruiting loads of foregin and domestic talents to work on cutting edge research.

Stop living under rocks, they may still be trailing US now. With the current state of US (bat shit crazy liberals, shrinking public funding for scientific research) it will be a lot harder to say 20 yrs down the road.

So that's what stealing secrets is called today.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

And neither do you. Patents do not necessarily protect an outcome, they can only protect a mechanism or delivery for that outcome only. Getting same outcome using different mechanism can still be allowed.

And oh noes for not putting steal in quotes like "steal". How many times do I have to say stealing ones blueprints is very different to taking a retail competitor product, disassembling it and learning from that? Jesus...

there are no laws against reverse engineering, its common practice everywhere and its not stealing. However obtaining something like a prototype unit/model/whatev (prior to being open for public purchase) with the intent to reverse engineer is still stealing regardless of intent.

What patents do is protect an exact design from being made by anyone else then the person or company owning the patent rights for a period of time. Getting the same outcome using different mechanisms didnt work for the Asetek "thiefs".

 

[RejZoR]

Does it? I very much doubt EK is paying Asetek anything for their Predator design. It's an AiO, but I don't think any of the Asetek patents cover it. You often can't patent broad things, like patenting water cooling as whole. Asetek patents probably involve specifics of having a pump on the water block as single unit. Predator has it on the radiator. Again, I don't know the exact specifics of Asetek patents, but details are often very important.

 

[OneCool]

No surprise. China can't "create" shit. Steal and copy as usual