Upgrading an old PC..

[Oldscool]

Hi all,
I'm looking to upgrade my old PC & looking for recommendations.
I hope I'll get away with just a graphics card but I'll leave the recommendations to the experts.

It's currently running a Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H with an i5-3570k CPU overclocked to 4.40ghz, 8GB RAM with a pair of GTX 8800 in SLI, all watercooled.
I'm not fussed about running the latest games, although I'd like it to be capable of running Flight Simulator, or DCS. (This may be a bit of an ask, I know)
My PSU is an Enermax Galaxy 1000w

Are there any decent graphics cards which will run this & be compatible? Or am I looking at a new motherboard too?
My case is a Corsair Obsidian 900D so plenty of space if needed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[SL2]

It depends on the game, but since OP wants to run Flight Simulator, I'm guessing that it does. For £32, it's kind of a no-brainer, imo.

I'm not debating whether the i7 is a faster CPU. Both are just too old, that's all I'm saying.

Even with a 3080 it stays under 30 FPS, and that's when the 3770K is overclocked. With other games in the video it goes beyond 60 FPS easily, but MSFS needs a good CPU.

Time for a new CPU.

Waiting for lower end Intel 13 or AMD 7000 is another alternative, probably available 2 - 3 months from now, although I think the 5600 and the 12400F are good enough.

 

[dgianstefani]

There's zero reason to choose a 5600 over a 12400, they're basically the same price.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

There's zero reason to choose a 5600 over a 12400, they're basically the same price.

?

PCPartPicker lists 5600 for $137 and 12400 for $185.

Also AM4 motherboards tend to be cheaper than LGA1700.

 

[dgianstefani]

?

PCPartPicker lists 5600 for $137 and 12400 for $185.

Also AM4 motherboards tend to be cheaper than LGA1700.

12400F.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

12400F.

$167. At this price point it is still a considerable difference.

 

[Hugis]

UK/EU peeps pay more for components, this is ocuk atm

and scan

 

[SL2]

UK/EU peeps pay more for components, this is ocuk atm

The 5600 is £140, like I listed in my first post, that's hard to beat.

 

[Hugis]

and @OP that PSU is about 15 years old now , i would deffo factor in a new psu......

 

[Assimilator]

With that generation, Core i7s have HT (extra 4 threads) enabled, which didn't mean much back then, but it means a lot nowadays.

Sure, 8 logical threads is a lot better than 4, but do you know what's even better? 12 with massively improved IPC.

 

[mechtech]

If you do update your current machine, I would probably check for BIOS updates, and replace the cmos/bios coin cell battery on the mobo.
good luck

 

[Veseleil]

Flight simulators demand high-end system. Always were, and always will be. You need a completely new PC, let's be honest. My main PC is low-end for MSFS. Tried it, it's playable, and that's it. Even maxing out your current platform with 3770k, 32GB RAM and getting a 1080ti, won't give you satisfaction in the long run. Save more money, and make a big generational jump. My 50 cents.

 

[dgianstefani]

#1 Priority for FS and sim games is CPU power.

Saving £20 for a weaker CPU on a top end build isn't smart.

OP has said he can stretch to £800, for that budget the 13600K is a no brainer.

 

[Hugis]

Could go lower but that's a Z690(ok not the best z690)

 

[SL2]

OP has said he can stretch to £800, for that budget the 13600K is a no brainer.

For £800 I'd put more money into the GPU and a bit less into the CPU. He's not aiming for > RTX 3080 kind of power anyway.

The 13600K is a great CPU, but it's £330 is a huge chunk out of £800, this won't leave enough left for GPU, RAM, board, and hopefully a PSU.

It makes no sense here in having a CPU that's more expensive than the graphics card, which is what you're suggesting indirectly. He asked for better graphics, that's it.

Remember, this is for a guy who thought/hoped that his existing CPU might be enough, it's not like he is complaining here.

If his budget was £1000 - 1200 I wouldn't say anything about the 13600K.

Edit: The 13600K might be a better choice after all.

 

[dgianstefani]

For £800 I'd put more money into the GPU and a bit less into the CPU. He's not aiming for > RTX 3080 kind of power anyway.

The 13600K is a great CPU, but it's £330 is a huge chunk out of £800, this won't leave enough left for GPU, RAM, board, and hopefully a PSU.

It makes no sense here in having a CPU that's more expensive than the graphics card, which is what you're suggesting indirectly. He asked for better graphics, that's it.

Remember, this is for a guy who thought that his existing CPU might be enough, it's not like he is complaining here.

If his budget was £1000 - 1200 I wouldn't say anything about the 13600K.

Did you read the OP? He's not interested in modern games, he want's to play DCS and FS.

Anything better than a 1660/6600 is fine for that.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/4y3R8r

It makes perfect sense to prioritize CPU in SIMULATION games.

Moving from a 3090 to a 4090 in 4K MSFS2020 gives you five more FPS, since even at that resolution you're CPU bottlenecked, this was tested with a 10900K.

 

[SL2]

He's not interested in modern games, he want's to play DCS and FS.

All I hear in this thread is what makes sense, and what's a no brainer, which is quite uncommon in TPU where most people, including myself, adds benchmarks to everything.

Edit: Thanks for the link.

 

[dgianstefani]

All I hear in this thread is what makes sense, and what's a no brainer, which is quite uncommon in TPU where most people, including myself, adds benchmarks to everything.

Thanks for the link

Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU

Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.

www.techpowerup.com

25% faster than the 5600.

Or he could spend the budget on a RX6700/3060 instead and get zero more FPS since even with a 4090 you're CPU limited.

 

[SL2]

Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU

Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.

www.techpowerup.com

25% faster than the 5600.

A 235 % more expensive CPU that runs 26 % faster at 1080 in games he doesn't play.

You just pointed out that benchmarks for such games, modern games, isn't relevant.

Your yt link was much more useful.

 

[Hugis]

easy now people

 

[dgianstefani]

A 235 % more expensive CPU that runs 26 % faster at 1080 in games he doesn't play.

You just pointed out that benchmarks for such games, modern games, isn't relevant.

Your yt link was much more useful.

The cost of the CPU doesn't matter, since both build options (priority on CPU/priority on GPU) fit within the £800 rough budget. The difference is that to maintain 60 FPS+ in these pilot simulation games, the CPU is much more important.

Page 2 | Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K review: an effective redoubt against AMD's Ryzen 7000 advances

Digital Foundry tests the Intel Core i9 13900K and Core i5 13600K, two Raptor Lake processors that offer more cores, higher clocks and winning results.

www.eurogamer.net

Here's a direct review testing MSFS2020, i've selected the 12400F, the 5600X and the 13600k (D4).
45FPS to 65FPS just from CPU. 13600K is blue line at top. 5600X is green, 5600 would be slower.

7700X with D5 is faster by another 10 FPS but then you have to pay for DDR5.

A 235 % more expensive CPU that runs 26 % faster at 1080 in games he doesn't play.

45% faster than the 5600X, 35% faster than the 12400F (all with same RAM).

 

[SL2]

Anything better than a 1660/6600 is fine for that.

It seems like there's a lot going on around the mid range models. That 39 % bump up to the 3060 TI from the 6600 XT is really impressive, and not like in other games (14 %).

A 3060 /TI doesn't fit the budget together with the 13600K tho.

 

[maxx2575]

oh my god, it doesn't matter. anything is better than what he has now so him just going for a cheaper cpu with a better gpu like the rx 6700X/6750X would be a better choice. I dont think he's going to need that 25% increase as he'll most likely not even uses all the performance of the older amd cpu. hell the 3600 is on sale for £105 and im sure that'd be more than enough for most the stuff he's going to do with it. I dont get why he needs the best when he can get what he wants for less, plus he can then afoard a new psu which I'm more worried about.

not to mention he NEEDS new ram no matter what. so you also have to take that into mind. a 32GB set will run him a little less than £90 and a 16GB set will run him a little more than £45 at the cheapest. and a new b550 motherboard would run him at least another £90 or if he wanted £80 for a b450

 

[SL2]

5600 would be slower

I doubt that, given the negligible difference between the 5600X and the 5800X, 0.2 %.

45% faster than the 5600X, 35% faster than the 12400F (all with same RAM).

That's with the same graphics card, which isn't obvious for the OP. Cheaper CPU, more expensive GPU.

If the 3060 TI is 39 % faster than a 6600 XT, it's not that obvious which one to pick..

For the same budget I found13600KF + 6600 (non XT, so even slower that the 3060 TI), or
5600 + 3060 TI.

This was my point from the beginning, we can't just compare two differently priced CPU's if they'd be using different GPU's because of a fixed budget.

oh my god, it doesn't matter.

I know.

 

[AusWolf]

Sure, 8 logical threads is a lot better than 4, but do you know what's even better? 12 with massively improved IPC.

That's true, if one's willing to pay more than 32 quid.

 

[Hofnaerrchen]

Will that really make a difference on such an old CPU in games today? The 3770 still runs at lower clock speed, which is a drawback, and I don't think HT can still make that a win.

You're welcome to share a link.

No big difference here at least, it really depends on the game tested of course. Either way, the OP needs more RAM.

Just check the YT channel I recommended earlier in the thread. He has some really good videos about old CPUs (and GPUs) vs. 2022 online.

The question is: Does the OP need all the extra performance of new components? If I take my mom as an example. She's playing Civ5, creating photo albums, surfing and email. Some years ago we upgraded (the old PC died) to Zen 2 because I had other components for her new PC lying around but even my old GTX 970 still is complete overkill for the 20 year old 1280x1024 pixel display she's still using.

So getting a cheap CPU upgrade with more threads for the existing motherboard might make sense. In case of the current gen MS Flight Simulator this might not be possible.

The next thing to consider is the question of how much money you want to spend. I fully agree that it is wasted money to upgrade a quite old system if you have a budget that will give you much higher performance even with entry level current gen components. MS FS still won't run smooth on all settings but probably better than on an old platform with newer components and - again: If the budget allows such considerations - it might make sense to upgrade the platform first and get a new GPU later on. While I have some doubts right now, that RTX 4000 entry level GPUs will have a decent price value, you might - pure speculation though - RDNA3 will probably offer a better price/performance ratio, based on known facts.

RAM: In the case of the OP you are right. But for other people that might stumble upon this thread because they have similar requirements: Changing the OS might do the job as well.