Upgrading to a new Gpu RX 7800 XT

[AusWolf]

Raw performance is there. Thats why they have the fastest GPU in the world, without even using the full die. And what is raw performance? Rasterization only? Nah. A GPU in 2024 should have much more than just simple raster perf.

I'd rather not pay over a grand for a GPU, thanks. I don't even care how it ranks up to other cards, I just find it excessive to spend that much on a toy. Because let's be honest, it's just that unless you're a content creator, which I'm not. Let's not even bring the RT argument into the picture, it just tanks any card that isn't a 4080 at least. The fact that the 4060 Ti suffers from it maybe 5% less than my 7800 XT isn't helping.

I am talking about actual game support, WHQL drivers in time for NEW games and BETA titles. Nvidia always have them ready and AMD does not. They don't have the manpower to focus on all releases, which is why they spend most time optimizing games thats getting used in reviews. When you leave these titles, AMD performance takes a dive in most games. Nvidia performs much better overall - when looking at the big picture - and you will have less issues in new games. Most developers optimize and tweak for Nvidia because 80+% of the PC gaming market uses Nvidia GPU.

I don't bother with every single new driver release (I tend to skip 2-3 versions at a time before I update), and I have zero issues in new games, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Nvidia CP is tested and tried, has tons of options if you actually know how to use it.

I know how to use it, as the vast majority of my GPUs have been from Nvidia. But that doesn't mean that I like it.

I use Afterburner for Undervolt and OC, would never use the control panel to do it. It's too simple. Including AMDs. You can overclock in Nvidia Experience, and Experience is aimed at lesser technical users as well.

I'd rather not install third-party software to do something that's integrated into my GPU driver, but each to their own, I guess.

 

[Vayra86]

Furthermore it's only a six core.

Hardly relevant, seeing as new quad cores with HT/SMT game just fine too, and I'm not seeing full core utilization on 6c12t here either in gaming.

 

[ratirt]

You are very wrong. I sold a 3090 for 1000 bucks before getting 4090, about 2 years later. Meanwhile AMD was selling 6900XT and 6950XTs for dirt cheap prices, making it impossible to sell the second hand AMD cards. The demand for my 3090 was crazy, meaning I put it at 800 dollars but ended up getting 1000, tons of people wanted my card. This is why demand matters.
Nvidia is clearly in more demand in the second hand market and prices go up. Think iPhone vs Android. Android phones are worth nothing when you are done with them, for the most part, since they drop in price alot of time. Same with AMD hardware, price is what AMD adjust. This is also what AMD is going now with entire 7000 series. They did it with 6000 series. This makes your old AMD GPU a hard sell and its 100% fact. Sold tons of hardware from both sides.

Upscaling but especially DLAA improves on native res every single time. Native is not even close in terms of IQ. DLAA is the best AA in the world right now. Regular AA is slowly dying and leaving new games, FSR, DLSS and XeSS is the only option in most of them and going forward, this will be the case for pretty much every game released.

Nvidia drivers are better for sure, this is commen knowledge and you can find tons of proof confirming this. Nvidias driver team is much bigger than AMDs. They support older GPUs for longer, in their recent driver they had a fix for 10 year old Maxwell series. When you leave the most popular games, play early access games or even using emulators, Nvidia is MUCH better overall. Support is next level here.

On the other side, AMD drops hardware support fast when they leave the arch (instead of doing refreshes of the same arch like they did many times earlier) -> https://www.anandtech.com/show/21126/amd-reduces-ongoing-driver-support-for-polaris-and-vega-gpus

Remember Radeon VII? High-end GPU that went EoL after 4-6 months or so. Price plummet and MSRP was high to begin with. Proof found -> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Radeo...-just-6-months-after-its-launch.432773.0.html


While DLAA is the best for pure image quality, DLSS can easily improve on native as well, while also improving frames by 50-75% on Quality preset -> https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/outriders-dlss-performance

Native looks worse, not better. Screenshots included here. Easy to see.

Pretty much all new games today have DLSS/DLAA or can be modded easily to do it. Nvidia uses dll files and you can easily change out versions, or mod them in. AMD on the other hand don't use dll files and you can't replace them. Starfield, the AMD sponsored game which did not have DLSS/DLAA on launch, got a DLSS/DLAA mod on day one that easily beat FSR. Techpowerup tested it, and this was their conclusion. My experience as well.

I already used RT and PT in tons of games. The future is now for RTX owners. AMD is several generations behind on this too. However, improving FSR and AFMF should be top priority for now.

In like 10 years, games won't even have fake lightning. RT will be needed, just like Metro Exocus EE, which won't run without RT support.

RT means developers don't have to waste time on lighting, GPU does it for you. Correct lightning and less work for devs. RT is here to stay and eventually it will become a must have.

AMD GPUs are cheaper for a reason, if they were actually better, they would be selling in much bigger numbers. They need to have aggressive pricing to even make people consider buying them and yet most people don't anyway. Why? Because they want great features, good support/drivers and overall better performance. This is not worth saving a few bucks for. The savings are wasted on power over time anyway, because AMD has worse performance per watt. And like I said earlier, when you actually sell the card later, you get way less money back from an AMD card. All this means that AMD GPU is not really cheaper. You pay less on initial buy maybe, but tocal cost of ownership is not really higher with Nvidia and you have less issues when you use it as well + better features.

I'm not wrong I just disagree with your point of view in literally every aspect.

If I were to buy a GPU i would still go either 7800xt from AMD camp (if the price is right) or 4070 Ti super if it turns out to be a good rounded card.

 

[AusWolf]

If I were to buy a GPU i would still go either 7800xt from AMD camp (if the price is right) or 4070 Ti super if it turns out to be a good rounded card.

For me, it would be 4060 in the low range, 7800 XT in the mid-range, or 7900 XTX in the high range.
Anything above that is just bonkers money wasting, and the competition of these three (that is, the 7600, 4070 and 4080) aren't very good value.

 

[las]

So does a 8700K like I have right now, with a 7900XT on it.

And yet, everything runs royally above 60 FPS unless its a major CPU hog.
I want an X3D system, but I have to be honest: the necessity is precisely zero. Sure, some games, and especially even some specific games I play, will be performing a LOT better. I'll get more than 30% boosts more often than not. But need? Nope.

Its a perfect time and situation to wait on a good/better price on 7800X3D with 32GB of DDR5. You can save a bit of money now and get a 5800X3D instead, but then you're spending money on a platform and DDR4 that is EOL.

7800X3D was on deep discount on Black Friday, even including Avatar, I doubt it will get cheaper, you might as well wait for Zen 5 at this point.

For me, it would be 4060 in the low range, 7800 XT in the mid-range, or 7900 XTX in the high range.
Anything above that is just bonkers money wasting, and the competition of these three isn't very good with the price-to-performance.

What will you call AMD 6500XT then Funny you only listed AMD cards in the mid and high-end. If 7900XTX is high-end, where do you place 4090?

I guess its subjective. After all 4090 sold way better than 7900XTX.

People "waste" money on hobbies all the time. If you have the money, who cares.

Also, Nvidia is worth way more on the second hand market. I sold my 3090 for 1000 dollars after 2 years. Try that with an AMD card. Retained more than 65% of the value. This is impossible with AMD hardware, because they lower prices over time. Every single time. Affects all their hardware.

See how dirt cheap they were selling Radeon 6000 series before stock ran out? 6000 owners looking to sell had to sell at a big loss. Especially day one buyers.

6950XT launched at 1099 dollars but plunged to ~500 dollars in the end. Meaning people barely could sell their card for 300 dollars. 800 dollars lost.
I lost 500 dollars by using 3090 for 2 years.

Maybe you should look into total cost of ownership

 

[AusWolf]

What will you call AMD 6500XT then

I'd call it entry-level, and generally not recommend it for gaming, unless you only want to play few years old titles at 1080p. Its main competition is the 1650, which is an architecture from 2018, which says it all.

Funny you only listed AMD cards in the mid and high-end. If 7900XTX is high-end, where do you place 4090?

Yes, because those have the best price-to-performance in their tiers. The 4090 is a flagship/halo card, call it what you will. I just called it "bonkers money wasting", I believe.

People "waste" money on hobbies all the time. If you have the money, who cares.

Also, Nvidia is worth way more on the second hand market. I sold my 3090 for 1000 dollars after 2 years. Try that with an AMD card. Retained more than 65% of the value. This is impossible with AMD hardware, because they lower prices over time. Every single time. Affects all their hardware.

See how dirt cheap they were selling Radeon 6000 series before stock ran out? 6000 owners looking to sell had to sell at a big loss. Especially day one buyers.

6950XT launched at 1099 dollars but plunged to ~500 dollars in the end. Meaning people barely could sell their card for 300 dollars. 800 dollars lost.
I lost 500 dollars by using 3090 for 2 years.

If you think your 4090 will keep its value any better than that when the 50-series comes out, then you're delusional. A one-time sale of your 3090 at the end of the GPU shortage is anecdotal evidence at best.

Similarly, I sold a 5700 XT for £600 a couple of months after I bought it for £480 brand new, so what?

In fact, buying any high-end GPU with market price retention in mind is just plain idiocy, and any actual price retention is pure luck or coincidence, but I suppose you know that.

 

[ratirt]

For me, it would be 4060 in the low range, 7800 XT in the mid-range, or 7900 XTX in the high range.
Anything above that is just bonkers money wasting, and the competition of these three (that is, the 7600, 4070 and 4080) aren't very good value.

4060 can be a waste of money as well if you ask me. Depends how you look at it. You are just enabled to play games. Plus, you need to get another parts of a computer to get the card working.
get a console an you want have to spend so much.
So it depends. I would not invest in 4060 since it is too weak for me. The price is f'ed up and you can do nothing about it. What you can do is, not buy anything.

 

[AusWolf]

4060 can be a waste of money as well if you ask me. Depends how you look at it. You are just enabled to play games. Plus, you need to get another parts of a computer to get the card working.
get a console an you want have to spend so much.
So it depends. I would not invest in 4060 since it is too weak for me. The price is f'ed up and you can do nothing about it. What you can do is, not buy anything.

It is overly expensive for what it is, I agree. It's just slightly better value than the 7600. Cards like these should cost £200 at most.

A console is not an option for me, as I hate using the controller. A weak GPU is better than nothing in my opinion, and the next tier up is miles more expensive.

 

[las]

I'm not wrong I just disagree with your point of view in literally every aspect.

If I were to buy a GPU i would still go either 7800xt from AMD camp (if the price is right) or 4070 Ti super if it turns out to be a good rounded card.

You might, but 90-95% of people would not. And this is AMDs big problem.

I'd rather not pay over a grand for a GPU, thanks. I don't even care how it ranks up to other cards, I just find it excessive to spend that much on a toy. Because let's be honest, it's just that unless you're a content creator, which I'm not. Let's not even bring the RT argument into the picture, it just tanks any card that isn't a 4080 at least. The fact that the 4060 Ti suffers from it maybe 5% less than my 7800 XT isn't helping.


I don't bother with every single new driver release (I tend to skip 2-3 versions at a time before I update), and I have zero issues in new games, so I have no idea what you're talking about.


I know how to use it, as the vast majority of my GPUs have been from Nvidia. But that doesn't mean that I like it.


I'd rather not install third-party software to do something that's integrated into my GPU driver, but each to their own, I guess.

Advanced OC is not integrated into AMD drivers. Afterburner is way more advanced. Lets stop dreaming shall we. It's a simple OC tool, the basics. You can get the same thing if you install Experience which also have a nice overlay. However I prefer Afterburner and don't use Experience. I use Afterburner for way more than undervolt and oc tho.

"Overclocking is pretty complicated, just like on other RDNA3 cards." -> https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-7800-xt/40.html

I know for a fact that AMD drivers are worse, since I had many AMD cards. And ATi before that. Nvidia took off in recent years tho, in both raster perf and features in general. My last truly great AMD GPU was 7970. Thats 12-13 years ago. Had a bunch since tho. 5700XT on release with tons of issues (just like everyone else, google it, literally took AMD 9 months to fix the cards, with overheating vrms, black screen issues and crash to desktop).

Starting to miss ATi actually. They knew how to make proper GPUs (most of the time) probably because they had full focus on it. Just like Nvidia. AMD don't, they mainly produce CPUs and APUs at this point. Without Ryzen, AMD might have been gone at this point.

AMDs big problem is they use TSMC for everything and GPUs eats away at their CPU/APU output, which have better margins. CPUs are simply more profitable for AMD. This is why AMD is leaving the high-end GPU market. Low to mid-end GPUs take up way less wafer space and their MCM approach kinda failed.

 

[ratirt]

You might, but 90-95% of people would not. And this is AMDs big problem.

I dont care what people would do and I doubt 90% would not do same thing I would do. That is your assumption not reality.
I don't think AMD has a problem. You might have a problem since you impose your thoughts on others quoting money making companies what you should look in a graphics card.
7800xt is a good GPU and I'm pretty sure AMD does not have problem with it. If the price drops it could be even better. Since NV releases new GPUs it may happen but that is not because 7800xt is bad it's because NV needs to stay competitive and sell more GPUs at this point. Why else they would release anything?

 

[dgianstefani]

Hardly relevant, seeing as new quad cores with HT/SMT game just fine too, and I'm not seeing full core utilization on 6c12t here either in gaming.

Of course you aren't seeing high cpu usage. You have a high resolution ultra wide with only 144 Hz.

You're gpu limited in almost every scenario. Even more so if you use RT, since you're using AMD.

 

[las]

I dont care what people would do and I doubt 90% would not do same thing I would do. That is your assumption not reality.
I don't think AMD has a problem. You might have a problem since you impose your thoughts on others quoting money making companies what you should look in a graphics card.
7800xt is a good GPU and I'm pretty sure AMD does not have problem with it. If the price drops it could be even better. Since NV releases new GPUs it may happen but that is not because 7800xt is bad it's because NV needs to stay competitive and sell more GPUs at this point. Why else they would release anything?

Nah that is actual reality and reflects sales numbers and marketshare. I work with B2B and see shipping numbers as well.

7800XT will soon gets replaced by Radeon 8000 series, this happens in 2024. 8000 series is low to mid-end only, no high-end SKUs.

7800XT was delayed for a long time to sell out remaining 6800 and 6900 stock first, this is also reality. AMD had huge 6000 stock sitting in warehouses, hence the dirt cheap prices and 7000 delay. They tried to fill the GPU demand, then GPU mining crashed and demand dropped to almost zero, leaving tons of GPUs collecting dust.

Im a realist and look into actual sales and marketshare, its easy to see that AMD have issues in the GPU sector and I hope they can turn things around

AMD even got more competition in the low to mid-end market, with Intel joinws the race. This is AMDs prime segment and soon Intel will be able to put out their own GPUs using own fabs on the 20A/18A node. They will be able to price their GPUs very aggressively, like we have already seen with 1st gen Arc at times, and DX9/10 matters less and less, which is where Intel has most driver issues. DX11/12 and forward, performance is great actually (for low to mid-end offerings, looking at perf per dollar)

 

[AusWolf]

Advanced OC is not integrated into AMD drivers. Afterburner is way more advanced. Lets stop dreaming shall we. It's a simple OC tool, the basics. You can get the same thing if you install Experience which also have a nice overlay. However I prefer Afterburner and don't use Experience. I use Afterburner for way more than undervolt and oc tho.

What is advanced OC? Adrenalin has power target control, fan control, fan curve settings, overvolt, undervolt, GPU clock, VRAM speed and latency tuning, etc. What more do you need?

"Overclocking is pretty complicated, just like on other RDNA3 cards." -> https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-7800-xt/40.html

Depends on what you want. I can just max out the power slider on my 7800 XT and gain an extra 100 MHz or 5% performance on average instantly.

I know for a fact that AMD drivers are worse, since I had many AMD cards. And ATi before that. Nvidia took off in recent years tho, in both raster perf and features in general. My last truly great AMD GPU was 7970. Thats 12-13 years ago. Had a bunch since tho. 5700XT on release with tons of issues (just like everyone else, google it, literally took AMD 9 months to fix the cards, with overheating vrms, black screen issues and crash to desktop).

And I know for a fact that they're not worse. It's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

The 5700 XT was bad, though, that's for sure (instability and driver drop-outs were common), but one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.

 

[las]

What is advanced OC? Adrenalin has power target control, fan control, fan curve settings, overvolt, undervolt, GPU clock, VRAM speed and latency tuning, etc. What more do you need?


Depends on what you want. I can just max out the power slider on my 7800 XT and gain an extra 100 MHz or 5% performance on average instantly.


And I know for a fact that they're not worse. It's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

The 5700 XT was bad, though, that's for sure (instability and driver drop-outs were common), but one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.

I need logging to get reliable performance numbers and a proper overlay with integration to other apps, and I like Afterburner far more, using it for every GPU.

OCing Nvidia cards is even more easy. Thats why TPU states that Overclocking is complicated on RDNA3. Nvidia Experience have auto OC which will add 5-10% performance with the click of a button, while testing for stability in the process. It does not get any easier for less technical people.

I undervolted and gained 8-10% performance on top.

AMD GPU drivers bricked many windows installs not too long ago -> https://www.techradar.com/news/amd-drivers-are-bricking-windows-11-systemsagain

Also I see AMD users screaming in most discussions on Steam on big releases + AMD often don't have launch drivers ready either

If AMD was just as good as Nvidia, they would be far more popular, but they are not. Even with lower prices, they are not selling well.

 

[ratirt]

Nah that is actual reality and reflects sales numbers and marketshare. I work with B2B and see shipping numbers as well.

7800XT will soon gets replaced by Radeon 8000 series, this happens in 2024. 8000 series is low to mid-end only, no high-end SKUs.

7800XT was delayed for a long time to sell out remaining 6800 and 6900 stock first, this is also reality. AMD had huge 6000 stock sitting in warehouses, hence the dirt cheap prices and 7000 delay. They tried to fill the GPU demand, then GPU mining crashed and demand dropped to almost zero, leaving tons of GPUs collecting dust.

I really dont care where you work or what you do for a living to take it as some sort of valid argument in the conversation. Because you work B2B and people cling to buy NV hardware that means this one is better? Great
And i have no idea, what you just put up there, has to do with anything we are discussing. AMD has a problem because the 7800xt is being replaced and it was delayed? Look at the sales of AMD regardless of NV and tell me if they have a problem. Because I can't see it in the sales nor revenue AMD got from graphics sales.
I'm honestly starting to get tired of this conversation since it is not productive in any way. Like i said, I disagree with your point of view, arguments, and comprehension of certain aspects and facts presented especially that some of them, clearly have nothing to do with the case. I'm not even sure what is it you are trying to prove here. NV sales are higher? Yes so? Moving on.

 

[the54thvoid]

Thread locked.

OP bailed out on Tuesday with a 'thank you.'

All that's been happening since is the usual tribal mentality.