UPS questions

[uber_m0j0]

Hey all.
So I'm building a new rig and I live out in a rural area where maybe a few times a month the power just goes out for a moment or two.
I'd like to dip my toes in the UPS market , I've always just used a surge protector but this time want something a little more substantial.

What I'm confused about is how much wattage a UPS needs to be compared to my computer.
The desktop in question is a 1000w psu. So do I need an UPS that's over 1000watt?
I don't want the UPS to run the computer for several minutes, just long enough for me to shut down in the event of a power outage.

If it matters at all, I'll list the hardware.
Asus X870 Tuf
64gb DDR 6000
AMD 9800x3d
Nvidia 5080
Samsung 990 pro 2tb x 2
Corsair RM1000x psu

 

[Epaminombas]

You need at least 50% more power in the UPS.

So at least 1500W

 

[nomdeplume]

Hey all.
So I'm building a new rig and I live out in a rural area where maybe a few times a month the power just goes out for a moment or two.

Larger question is how a UPS is programmed to handle unsteady mains. Which I believe a slightly deeper inspection will prove is more prevalent than momentary disconnections.
UPS are prepared to handle total power loss

 

[Epaminombas]

https://www.newegg.com/cyberpower-pr1500lcdn-nema-5-15r/p/N82E16842102267

 

[Harlow]

To add to the confusion, most UPS manufacturers specify their products in terms of VA first, Watts second. The VA figure is often much bigger than the rating in Watts.

https://thisvsthat.io/kva-vs-kw

I have an APC UPS similar to this one. It's rated at 1500VA or 900Watts. Good enough for several computers and LAN switches, firewalls, etc.

https://www.se.com/uk/en/product/SM...usb-and-serial-communication-avr-graphic-lcd/

I don't want the UPS to run the computer for several minutes, just long enough for me to shut down in the event of a power outage.

You might be surprised at how long it takes to shut down a computer when you're in the middle of something. If you have a document open or are working on some files, how long does it take to save your work, close any open programs and then perform a graceful shutdown? It's probably going to be more than one minute and might be as long as two minutes.

The "best" UPS are "always online" and "pure sine wave". Cheaper UPS are "switched" but still "pure sine wave". Cheaper still and you've got "stepped approximation sine wave" or "modified sine wave" which might not work well with your ATX PSUs. The harmonics from square waves are appaling and in the worst case, may damage your equipment.
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/prod...ne-wave-vs--modified-sine-wave-explained.html

Good UPS tend to be expensive, i.e. over $500. You wouldn't need this 1500VA APC unit for just one PC. You could probably get away with something of around 1000VA (600W) rating, but watch out for the short run time at full load.
https://www.amazon.com/APC-SmartConnect-SMC1500C-Interactive-Uninterruptible/dp/B0C8JZQBW5

By "switched" I mean the UPS inverter does not start up until the mains fails and there will be a short delay (hopefully less than 10milliseconds) before a relay ticks over and your computer is connected to the battery powered inverter.

If you've got a cheap and nasty ATX PSU in your PC, the bulk electrolytic may run out of charge before the UPS kicks in and your computer will die. ATX regs says a PSU should continue to work for 17ms after the mains fails, but not all PSUs meet this spec.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Larger question is how a UPS is programmed to handle unsteady mains.

While certainly very important, it definitely is not the larger question. First and foremost, the UPS must be able to support the expected load during a full outage.

UPS are prepared to handle total power loss

Yes, when properly sized.

unsteady mains. Which I believe a slightly deeper inspection will prove is more prevalent than momentary disconnections.

Ummm, "momentary" disconnections is a characteristic of unsteady mains. Momentary would mean a couple seconds at most.

I am assuming you really meant how a "good" UPS deals with other anomalies besides pure outages. These anomalies include surges and spikes, as well as abnormal low-voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). This is where the "AVR" (automatic voltage regulation) feature of a "good" UPS sets the UPS apart from just a basic battery backup. Surge and spike protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords as they do nothing for those low voltage events, and for excessive surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good.

Even in rural areas that encounter frequent outages, it is still the AVR feature that protects your hardware from destructive power anomalies since these surges and spikes occur through the day, over and over again. This is true even where the grid is stable.

Note excessive surges and spike don't have to come from the grid either. A faulty or poorly designed high wattage device in the home (like a $15 1500 watt hair dryer, or faulty microwave oven) can introduce such anomalies back into the lines.

The desktop in question is a 1000w psu. So do I need an UPS that's over 1000watt?

In your case, no. It is important to understand the PSU will demand from the wall only what the connected components demand from the PSU, plus a little extra due to inefficiencies.

If you add up all the demands from your CPU, GPU and other devices, your computer will demand no more than 600W and even then that would be extremely rare because it is very rare for every device (CPU, GPU, RAM, drives, motherboard, etc.) to demand maximum power at the exact same point in time.

Your Corsair RM1000x is certified Gold. That means at 50% load, it is still an excellent 90% efficient. But lets use extremes and assume the worse. Your PSU will be 87% efficient. That means if your computer is demanding [an unlikely] 600W, your PSU will only demand from the wall (or UPS) 690W (690 x .87 = 600.3).

I agree that 1500VA is a good size for you. Note I have an APC 1500VA UPS on this system and supports my computer, my modem, my wireless router AND two 24" monitors. Note in NO WAY do you need to spend $750 or even $500. That APC or even this $219 CyberPower 1500VA UPS will serve you just fine.

The harmonics from square waves are appaling and in the worst case, may damage your equipment.

Please stop spreading this nonsense marketing hype! NO UPS designed to support computer equipment output "square" waves. First, the ONLY time a UPS is actually producing (as in converting from battery) any output is during a full power outage. At all other times, it is simply passing the AC from the wall outlet (perhaps adding a touch of regulation).

Note Eaton, arguably one of the best UPS manufacturers out there says (my bold underline added),

It’s important to understand that both types of UPS system produce true sine wave output more than 99% of the time.

Modified sine wave UPS systems typically protect PCs

EVGA FAQ and Seasonic on stepped approximation output with their PSUs. EVGA says their APFC PSUs work fine with simulated sinewaves.

Q: Do EVGA Power Supplies support UPS backup devices that support Line-Interactive AVR UPS which uses a simulated/artificial sine wave?

A: Yes, all EVGA power supplies support Active PFC and UPS backup devices.

Seasonic also does not have a problem. While Seasonic recommends pure sinewave UPS, they also clearly say,

a high quality simulated sinewave UPS from a reputable manufacturer could also be a possible solution to be used with our power supplies.

This is a square wave
View attachment 382390

This is a modified sinewave
View attachment 382392

See the difference?

Let's not forget that entire towns in many communities use DC and inverters to power homes. Boats, RVs, travel trailers and more use batteries and inverters with modified sinewave outputs to power everything - have for decades - with NO damage or ill effects to their connected, and often VERY SOPHISTICATED electronics using switching power supplies.

 

[igormp]

Hey all.
So I'm building a new rig and I live out in a rural area where maybe a few times a month the power just goes out for a moment or two.
I'd like to dip my toes in the UPS market , I've always just used a surge protector but this time want something a little more substantial.

What I'm confused about is how much wattage a UPS needs to be compared to my computer.
The desktop in question is a 1000w psu. So do I need an UPS that's over 1000watt?
I don't want the UPS to run the computer for several minutes, just long enough for me to shut down in the event of a power outage.

If it matters at all, I'll list the hardware.
Asus X870 Tuf
64gb DDR 6000
AMD 9800x3d
Nvidia 5080
Samsung 990 pro 2tb x 2
Corsair RM1000x psu

You need to actually take into consideration the actual power draw of your device, as stated above. A 5080 + 9800x3D won't be reaching sustained 1000W at loads in any normal scenario.

Another thing to keep in mind is that UPSes usually have their power rated in VA. To know how much they can handle you need to know its power factor (usually listed within its specs), a 1000W UPS with a PF of 0.7 means it would be able to deliver up to 700W to your devices plugged into it.
If you try to pull more than that, there's a high chance it'll shut down.

Another thing is looking into if you want a line interactive vs online UPS. An online one is usually more inefficient, but was no switching time since your devices are always running out of the batteries, and the AC is always charging those batteries. A line interactive one switches from mains onto the batteries when there's a power drop.
There's also the talks about a pure sine wave vs other types, but modern PSUs should not have any issues with those, that'd be more relevant to older PSUs or stuff like motors.

First, the ONLY time a UPS is actually producing (as in converting from battery) any output is during a full power outage. At all other times, it is simply passing the AC from the wall outlet (perhaps adding a touch of regulation).

line-interactive UPSes*
Online ones do power the device from the battery at all times.

 

[Bill_Bright]

line-interactive UPSes*
Online ones do power the device from the battery at all times.

True but those are typically used for normal home and office work because (1) they are very expensive and (2) they are not needed in those scenarios. Some life-support, critical health monitoring systems "might" need such UPS. But not even most "mission critical" computer systems do.

Why? Simple. The ATX Form Factor standard requires ALL ATX power supplies to "hold up" output power (keep outputting) whenever there is a loss (or significant drop) in input voltage for at least 12ms with a 100% load, and at least 17ms with a load of 80% or less. Any decent UPS with AVR can easily react (cut over) to backup power in less than 10ms, many as fast as 8ms or even 4ms.

 

[uber_m0j0]

While certainly very important, it definitely is not the larger question. First and foremost, the UPS must be able to support the expected load during a full outage.


Yes, when properly sized.


Ummm, "momentary" disconnections is a characteristic of unsteady mains. Momentary would mean a couple seconds at most.

I am assuming you really meant how a "good" UPS deals with other anomalies besides pure outages. These anomalies include surges and spikes, as well as abnormal low-voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). This is where the "AVR" (automatic voltage regulation) feature of a "good" UPS sets the UPS apart from just a basic battery backup. Surge and spike protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords as they do nothing for those low voltage events, and for excessive surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good.

Even in rural areas that encounter frequent outages, it is still the AVR feature that protects your hardware from destructive power anomalies since these surges and spikes occur through the day, over and over again. This is true even where the grid is stable.

Note excessive surges and spike don't have to come from the grid either. A faulty or poorly designed high wattage device in the home (like a $15 1500 watt hair dryer, or faulty microwave oven) can introduce such anomalies back into the lines.


In your case, no. It is important to understand the PSU will demand from the wall only what the connected components demand from the PSU, plus a little extra due to inefficiencies.

If you add up all the demands from your CPU, GPU and other devices, your computer will demand no more than 600W and even then that would be extremely rare because it is very rare for every device (CPU, GPU, RAM, drives, motherboard, etc.) to demand maximum power at the exact same point in time.

Your Corsair RM1000x is certified Gold. That means at 50% load, it is still an excellent 90% efficient. But lets use extremes and assume the worse. Your PSU will be 87% efficient. That means if your computer is demanding [an unlikely] 600W, your PSU will only demand from the wall (or UPS) 690W (690 x .87 = 600.3).

I agree that 1500VA is a good size for you. Note I have an APC 1500VA UPS on this system and supports my computer, my modem, my wireless router AND two 24" monitors. Note in NO WAY do you need to spend $750 or even $500. That APC or even this $219 CyberPower 1500VA UPS will serve you just fine.


Please stop spreading this nonsense marketing hype! NO UPS designed to support computer equipment output "square" waves. First, the ONLY time a UPS is actually producing (as in converting from battery) any output is during a full power outage. At all other times, it is simply passing the AC from the wall outlet (perhaps adding a touch of regulation).

Note Eaton, arguably one of the best UPS manufacturers out there says (my bold underline added),



EVGA FAQ and Seasonic on stepped approximation output with their PSUs. EVGA says their APFC PSUs work fine with simulated sinewaves.



Seasonic also does not have a problem. While Seasonic recommends pure sinewave UPS, they also clearly say,



This is a square wave
View attachment 382390

This is a modified sinewave
View attachment 382392

See the difference?

Let's not forget that entire towns in many communities use DC and inverters to power homes. Boats, RVs, travel trailers and more use batteries and inverters with modified sinewave outputs to power everything - have for decades - with NO damage or ill effects to their connected, and often VERY SOPHISTICATED electronics using switching power supplies.

Thank you very much for the insight. I'll check out some 1500va UPSs like the one you linked! $200-300 is worth it to help protect my investment.

Would something like This guy get the job done?

 

[Harlow]

Please stop spreading this nonsense marketing hype! NO UPS designed to support computer equipment output "square" waves

Please calm down. I was thinking some people might buy a square wave UPS thinking it was a stepped approximation output design. Some manufacturers' descriptions can be misleading.

This blog discusses a UPS with what I consider to be a square wave output (as opposed to a stepped approximation sine wave output).

https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/en/contents/staff-blog/index?post=3892

Looking at the front of the UPS1200L, I wouldn't be able to tell what shape the output waveform was.

Here is the link to the manufacturer's web site for the UPS1200LX:-
https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/en/products/detail/item/25891/

Lurking in the description is the claim "Waveform: Sine wave (normal), Step wave (backup)".
The "Step wave" output produced by the inverter looks (to all intents and purposes) like a square wave to me.
A case of caveat emptor?

■ UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply)
■ Capacity: 1200VA
■ Allowable power: 720W
■ Driving method: Line interactive method
■ Input: 100V ± 25% 50Hz / 60Hz ± 10%
Phase: Single + GND
■ Output: 100V ± 10% 50Hz / 60Hz ± 1% (battery mode)
Waveform: Sine wave (normal) 通常 Step wave (backup)
Crest factor: 3: 1
Transfer time: <10ms
■ Battery type: UPSB7AH x 2
■ Power efficiency:> 80% (inverter mode)
■ Backup time: 8-20 minutes (depends on usage)
■ Charging time: 10 hours

 

[Epaminombas]

The guy asked for a stable and safe solution.

And the trolls told him to buy a UPS with less power than his power supply.

Imagine if it will be able to handle 2 monitors connected or anything else connected?

Buy one with 1500W of power and you won't have any headaches with problems.

Do you really think that someone with an RTX 5080 and AMD 9800X3D is worried about having to spend $700? He wants a safe and definitive solution and not to save crumbs that are nothing to him.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Please calm down. I was thinking some people might buy a square wave UPS thinking it was a stepped approximation output design.

Then say that. Don't spew untrue marketing hype. And it is just that. Stepped, approximated, simulated, modified (whatever you want to call it) waveform UPS have been used without problems for decades. Any half-way decent ATX PSU is more than capable of dealing with those waveforms and have for decades (ATX became the standard in 1995). Switched PSUs with APFC are more than capable of dealing with them too.

I am NOT saying to avoid pure sinewave UPS. For sure, the prices have, in recent years, come down on them so they are finally competitive. That is why we hear so much about them in recent years. But potential UPS buyers should not dismiss a UPS just because it is not pure sinewave. Suggesting users need a pure sinewave UPS, or that a modified waveform UPS is "cheap" or bad for our sensitive electronics is the exact marketing hype the pure sinewave UPS makers want us to believe. Don't believe it. And don't help them spread it.

Once again, RVs, boats, travel trailers, backup generators, even many towns in some parts of the world use inverters (and simulated sine wave waveforms) for power - full time! And guess what? Computers, refrigerators, TVs and more are working just fine.

Do you really think that someone with an RTX 5080 and AMD 9800X3D is worried about having to spend $700?

Worried? It is not about being worried. It is about having the budget and spending money wisely. $700 for a UPS is way more than anyone needs to spend for a decent UPS with AVR.

He wants a safe and definitive solution and not to save crumbs that are nothing to him.

You have no clue his financial situation. He may have blown his entire computer budget on the components he already has. Or may have 3 kids getting ready for college. Or may need a new roof. Or may just wish to spend his money wisely.

Buy one with 1500W of power and you won't have any headaches with problems.

Totally agreed! I live in Tornado Alley. Severe weather and power interruptions are not uncommon. I also live in a 65 year old house in a 100 year old neighborhood with my power coming via a drop from power poles. As noted above, I have a 1500VA (865W) APC UPS supporting this computer, two 24 inch monitors, the cable modem and wifi router.

And for the record, according to PowerChute (APC's monitoring software) logs, my UPS has "intervened" a total of 8 times in the last 12 weeks for a total runtime on batteries of 3 minutes 27 seconds! That means for the other 120,956 minutes, 33 seconds, all my sensitive electronics got their pure sinewave power from the grid with only the AVR feature of the UPS affecting the waveform for the 1000s of surges and spikes that also hit the house.

With my batteries fully charged, also according to PowerChute, I have approximately 42 minutes of run time with my current relatively light demands ("working" the forums typing posts, monitoring email inbox, streaming Pandora tunes). That is plenty of time for me to complete this post, or wrap up an email, or Word document, exit running applications, shut down Windows, then properly power off the computer with lots of time to spare.

HOWEVER, if the power suddenly went out now, and I quickly powered off the computer and both monitors, I could easily have nearly 90 minutes of run time that would keep my network and wifi access alive so I could stay in touch with the world with my wireless devices. This is very nice.

I also have another 1500VA UPS with AVR protecting my home theater audio electronics and big screen TV. This is actually a Best Buy (Geek Squad) branded UPS. I bought it after learning the OEM was Tripp Lite (now owned by Eaton).

My 30 year old APC Smart UPS 900 is supporting my garage door opener!

I even have a 750VA UPS on the electric blanket!

The one down side to UPS is the batteries typically need to be replaced every 2 to 5 years. Their lifespan depends on how often the UPS needs to kick over to battery, how deep the discharge/charge cycles are, and how heavy the load.

And again, it is the AVR that really makes a good UPS worthwhile. Power during a total power outage is really just a minor bonus feature.

 

[Epaminombas]

Now, if he is running a heavy game or rendering something, the battery life will drop by 90%.

That's why a 1500W UPS with a larger battery could make him render for longer.

But who knows what the person does on their PC, he didn't say anything either.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Now, if he is running a heavy game or rendering something, the battery life will drop by 90%.

True but "gaming" is not what UPS are for nor is that why users should protect their computers with UPS - which, FTR, I say all computers should be protected by a "good" UPS with AVR.

And using an UPS is NOT so users can keep playing their games (or even using their computers for other tasks) during a full power outage. Again, the main reason to have an UPS is for the AVR to protect our sensitive electronics (and data) from excessive surges, spikes, dips, sags, and brown outs. Remember, a surge is spike protector is little more than a fancy and expensive extension cord.

If there is a full power outage, then the purpose for the UPS is to provide enough battery runtime to allow us to finish that sentence then "gracefully" save our open documents, exit our running programs, shutdown Windows, then power off our computers. Something that should easily be done in less than 5 minutes.

"IF" we have "mission critical" systems that must never go down, and thus need longer run times during extended power outages, the proper solution is to put the facility on a backup generator. Then the purpose for the UPS is to hold the equipment "up" during an outage long enough for the generator to fire up, stabilize, then take over.

 

[uber_m0j0]

Thanks for all the replies. To answer a few points. Yes I blew most of my budget on this computer (and actually i do have roof repair coming up this spring lol)
So yeah, a $700 UPS is out of reach right now.
If this guy works... I'd like to go with this. I won't "continue gaming after a power outage" I simply want to be able to safely shut down in 1-3mins.

I do appreciate all the information, most of which is way over my head. But an interesting read and yeah I'm kind of spiraling about the options and choices now.

 

[Bill_Bright]

That CyberPower should serve you well. Note CyberPower has a pretty decent UPS monitoring software program too. It is called Power Panel Personal Edition and comes with that UPS. I recommend you use it. It requires you connect the UPS to you computer via a USB communications cable.

What this software does, besides letting you configure the UPS, is it will signal Windows to gracefully shutdown your computer should you be gone when the power goes out. Without connecting the USB cable, the UPS will still provide the essential AVR and will still provide backup power during an outage. However, for extended outages, when the batteries run down, supplied power simply stops and your computer will crash. Note this typically will not result in damage but it is possible you may lose some data, or corrupt some critical system files on your boot drive.

(and actually i do have roof repair coming up this spring lol)

Side note. I just replaced mine. Be sure to ask for "Class 4 Impact Resistant" shingles. In my case, they added just $400 to the total cost of materials for the roof (they do NOT affect/increase labor costs).

HOWEVER, after providing proof of the Class 4 shingles, my homeowner's insurance immediately dropped $1,000 per year! And because we typically pay that insurance in advance into an escrow account, my insurance company actually sent me a $949.59 "overpayment" refund.

 

[ir_cow]

As @Bill_Bright pointed out UPS is not for users to continue operations while power outage.

What It's designed for is brown outs and line mains filtering. Also each manufacturer has a up-time on battery. 900w at full load can be as little as 15 seconds. Buy a capacity that fits your needs and how quickly you can shutdown during a blackout.

I just went through this last week at my work. Boss people wondering why computers don't stay on during outages. I simply told them to get more UPS to share the load. I can't get across an entire building and safely shutdown servers under a minute. Plus some NEED to stay running (much longer story).

When I use to work at a news station, each server rack at the bottom had 2x lite on 2500w UPS. Over 100lb each... Usually after a big outage one wouldn't come back to life and needed new batteries. Seems common I guess if it completely drains. Not my field of knowledge. But I did manage to shutdown all servers

 

[Bill_Bright]

Usually after a big outage one wouldn't come back to life and needed new batteries.

Yeah, that's not normal - except typical UPS batteries are SLA (sealed lead-acid), the same technology as typical car batteries. As such, and as I noted above, do wear out and need to be replaced every few years.

To that, I never, as in NEVER EVER buy my replacement batteries from the UPS maker. They always charge more for the same batteries you can find cheaper elsewhere. I buy my UPS batteries from BatteryWholesale, Battery Mart, Batteryplex, RefurbUPS, Walmart or Amazon - depending on who has the best price on that day. Note today one distributor will price high with free shipping and the next day price low but with additional shipping charges added. So be sure to factor in shipping, which can be significant, but sometimes free.

Just make sure you get the same voltage. The amp/hour rating can be higher however, for longer run times, but not lower. For example, it the current cells are 12V 7.2AH, I always go with 12V 9AH. And last, make sure you get the correct terminal size. There are inexpensive adapters but typically space inside the UPS battery compartment is too limited.

F1 vs F2 terminal connector size

F1 Terminal – 3/16” (0.187”, 4.8mm) wide
F2 Terminal – 1/4" (0.25”, 6.35mm) wide

If your UPS battery consists of two or more battery cells, they will be strapped in parallel, series or series/parallel configurations to achieve a specific output voltage. This strapping is typically done with one or more small jumper or interconnecting cables. Don't discard those straps (or any plastic framework) the old battery may have used. Save them to use to assemble your new battery. I recommend taking a photo of the battery wiring before disassembly to use as a guide when assembling the new cells into the new UPS battery.

In case anyone is wondering, what's this cell vs battery stuff? A single cell can be "a" battery. Or, several cells put together can make up "a" battery. So, for example, if you have a flashlight that uses 4 AA batteries, individually each AA battery is a single cell. Insert the 4 AA cells into the flashlight and now, working together, they have become "one" battery, made up of 4 cells. Clear as mud, huh?

To make it more confusing, standard SLA UPS batteries, like this 12V 9Ah battery actually have 6 cells internally (just like a car battery). So, when this 12V 9Ah battery is used separately, it is a single-cell battery. But strap two of those 12V 9Ah batteries together, they become one 2-cell battery - even though there are 12 internal cells. Totally confused now? No worries. It really does not matter. Most people just call them batteries and that's fine.

 

[ir_cow]

Yeah, that's not normal - except typical UPS batteries are SLA (sealed lead-acid), the same technology as typical car batteries. As such, and as I noted above, do wear out and need to be replaced every few years.

Pretty normal after about a year of use, the battery generally does not get close to full change again. After 2-3 outages the batteries are dead dead just like a car battery.

I just buy the batteries form interstate battery and serialize them myself. Some hot glue to put the the plastic casing back on from the old pack and your good to go. Saves a $500 instead of buying from the manufacture. 9 batteries weren't cheap 7 years ago. I bet its even more now for a factory replacement. Really easy to do.

 

[Waldorf]

@Harlow
utter nonsense, you dont have to spend +500.
you can get decent pure sine out with AVR for half.

@igormp​

usually anything decent from the past 10y tends to work better on pure sine if its not to just shutdown.

@ir_cow
must have been crappy batteries.
i replaced +30 workstation and one set of batts in the server room when i did IT for a store, lasted +5y with usually multiple outages during a year.

@uber_m0j0

get a CyberPower unit.

1500VA pure sine out with AVR

 

[Dr. Dro]

I'd say around 2000-2200 VA pure sine wave output UPS for a gaming PC with active PFC power supply. Larger (and significantly more expensive) if you expect any meaningful runtime out of it.

 

[Bill_Bright]

After 2-3 outages the batteries are dead dead just like a car battery.

That's still not normal. Other than an occasional faulty battery, pretty sure I have never had one last less than 2 years. Most are 3 - 4 years. I have even had some last 7 years, but they never saw much of a load.

It sounds to me like yours are providing power too long (discharging too deep), too often and you (well, your bosses) need to allow you to power off the servers sooner after the power goes out, or if considered mission critical, get you a generator for semi-permanent backup power.

I used to maintain air traffic control communications systems (tower and GCA controller consoles and their receivers, transmitters and transceivers). While the UPS was designed to support the console positions and all the radios for at least 15 minutes, the generator was configured to kick in after only 2 minutes.

Saves a $500 instead of buying from the manufacture.

LOL Absolutely true. Years ago, I peeled off the labels from some APC and Eaton batteries and found plain ol' generic UB1290 batteries just like these that were less than 1/2 the price APC wanted.

Interstate prices are definitely better than the UPS makers, but with careful shopping, you can do a lot better. This is essentially the same as those UB1290s but $40 each instead of $50 for two.

Also, several of my UPS here came with 12V 7Ah or 12V 8Ah cells. When time to replace them, I put 12V 9Ah in there. As long as the voltage is the same, you can always use cells with higher amp-hour ratings. "In theory", you could increase the VA/wattage capacity of the UPS this way. However, most decent UPS would prevent that because that involves increasing current which may be seen as a safety issue by the UPS, and thus limited by design.

But, by using 9Ah cells instead of 7Ah or 8Ah, you do increase the amount of runtime the UPS will provide. So there's that.

you can get decent pure sine out with AVR for half.

Agreed.

must have been crappy batteries.

Or abused by running them too far down too often.

usually anything decent from the past 10y tends to work better on pure sine if its not to just shutdown.

Nah! That's the marketing hype again. For like the 10th time, RVs, boats, travel trailers, even entire towns in some countries use inverters to deliver stepped approximated waveform power to buildings with no problems for the electronics (including AC and fridge motors and compressors) and those scenarios are 24/7/365 - not a couple minutes every few months.

I'd say around 2000-2200 VA pure sine wave output UPS for a gaming PC with active PFC power supply.

No way. That's way overkill. And besides, the OP already said,

I won't "continue gaming after a power outage" I simply want to be able to safely shut down in 1-3mins.

 

[Waldorf]

you dont need more VA for that, even 1500 is enough. just more batteries...

 

[Bill_Bright]

even 1500 is enough

Totally agree. And not just for the computer itself, but the monitor, modem and wireless router too.

 

[ir_cow]

It sounds to me like yours are providing power too long (discharging too deep), too often and you (well, your bosses) need to allow you to power off the servers sooner after the power goes out, or if considered mission critical, get you a generator for semi-permanent backup power.

Correct. They didn't care enough to have enough UPS units / It costs millions for a backup generator.