Urgent question about ASUS Z87 & tWR latency

[TheHunter]

So I just bought a new ram today Kingston HyperX Beast 2400MHZ CL11 2x8GB kit so I could upgrade to 32GB in the future, but to my surprise it wouldn't boot in XMP1 profile @ 2400MHz -_-

After further investigation I saw a lot of ASUS users seem to have the same issue, XMP2 2133MHz is ok like by other Asus users.

Im running at XMP2 2133MHz CL11-12-12-30-1T atm, a lot worse then my old 4x4GB Crucial Elite ram 2133MHz with CL9-11-10-27-1T..

Some said (including Raja@Asus) switching from red/in my case yellow to black ram banks it would work ok (mostly ROG mobos), but not in my case @ Z87 deluxe. I played with advanced timings, raised VCCSA, reverted to stock cpu freq. and nothing helps.


Then I noticed something, this ram wants tWR 18 @ 2400MHz.
My mobo goes max tWR to 16,..

e.g. G.skill TridentX 2666 or 2800MHz or 2933MHz has tWR 16,
ADATA XPG V2 2800MHz has also tWR 16..
So I assume those two @ 2400MHz would work without a problem like my old Crucial Balistix Elite OC'ed at 2400 or even 2666MHZ with tWR 16..


Im about to RMA it tomorrow in afternoon, was thinking to exchange to TeamGroup Vulcan 2400MHz CL11 (actually its this model but I think its just with different heatspreader), but then I saw its also using tWR 18.. Its the only extra option in that store, or get my money back..

So to sum it up, can I do anything about this Kingston ram or return and get a little more expensive G.Skill TriedentX 2400Mhz CL10 from somewhere else, 2nd option would be Corsair Vengance Pro 2400MHz CL11 (but I can't find any tWR info)?

 

[jsfitz54]

Which version of board?
http://www.asus.com/search/results.aspx?SearchKey=Asus Z87-Deluxe

Try updating BIOS.

Look at memory device/support QVL list and look at memory timing numbers and try to manually set the numbers. Don't use XMP.

Try running 2T.

 

[TheHunter]

Its normal Deluxe,

I already had 2103 bios before, but reverted to 2003B because I had better ram OC stability with my old Crucial Balisitx Elite at 2400MHz. Now I updated back to 2103 thinking it might help, but no luck.

As I said it appears to be only tWR issue, mobo doesn't go over tWR 16 and this ram apparently needs 18 to boot normally. If I select XMP1 2400MHz is goes into infinite boot loop and powers on/off every second.

XMP2 2133MHz has tWR 16 and works ok atm, also I can't OC this thing at all, tried XMP2 and 2400MHz at higher 2400MHz timings - same issue...

Kind of strange though how it goes to max tRW 16 and not above, or am I missing something.,

 

[jsfitz54]

Higher density ram per stick, at a higher overclock (1600 stock): 2T

QVL: 11-13-13-35 @1.65v

XMP maybe setting voltage to high. Manually set.

 

[TheHunter]

Mine is actually CL11-13-14-32-2T @ 1.65v, I used these default timings and it wouldn't post, just goes into infinite boot on/off loop.

(year 2015/week32), newer and with worse timings..


Imo its just tWR issue, since mobo doesnt "support" it..Idk its like 18 is too lose or something, dunno why they stopped at 16.

 

[jsfitz54]

Try the GSkill ram. I've found them to be very forgiving.

Normally Kingston is very universal and has looser timing to make it more universally accepted.

Slots A2 and B2 used? Try both ways.

Try 10-12-12-31 @1.65v

After flashing Bios to 2103, did you reset "Default Settings, first, reboot? Then try XMP?

You may need to pull the battery after changing ram. Some boards are like that.

 

[little cat]

Well , I cant see big trouble /performance difference !?

 

[Toothless]

Well , I cant see big trouble /performance difference !?

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean there isn't an issue. If OP got something and it's not working as intended then obviously something is of issue.

 

[little cat]

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean there isn't an issue. If OP got something and it's not working as intended then obviously something is of issue.

What difference would make 10 clock cycles to 11 , at 2400MHz DDR3 RAM - nothing noticeable !

 

[mobiuus]

i think i have the exact same 2x8 ddr3 and i remember that problems running them at 2400mhz with 11-12-12-30-t1 occured
only when i was going for a high cpu overclock( i mean higher then 4.7ghz), have u tryed od deffo cpu speed? gues u did...
another thing avoid xmp and set them manually to what u like, u can also try setting 1 stick and if u succed put another one too...

 

[mobiuus]

What difference would make 10 clock cycles to 11 , at 2400MHz DDR3 RAM - nothing noticeable !

at ddr4 ALSO

 

[cadaveca]

Toss up the BIOS screenies with tertiary timings, PLOX. Also, Kiongston said they didn't want to pay shipping to send me ram for testing, so fuck Kingston.

But I love you, man, so toss up the screens, lets see if we can help you out.

Yeah, I said fuck Kingston. Not surprised your happier with the Crucial.

 

[Toothless]

What difference would make 10 clock cycles to 11 , at 2400MHz DDR3 RAM - nothing noticeable !

Maybe not for you but is this your ram we're speaking about? No.

As to OP, I've never had issues with G.Skill or Samsung, but I thank you as I now know not to aim for this kit in the case I go DDR4.

 

[little cat]

Maybe not for you but is this your ram we're speaking about? No.

As to OP, I've never had issues with G.Skill or Samsung, but I thank you as I now know not to aim for this kit in the case I go DDR4.

I pointed out just an example . We have here from 11 to 12 , even a lesser change than 10 to 11 ! So what , nothing !

Migrate to X99 and quad channel DDR4 RAM . Then it will make a huge difference

 

[TheHunter]

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean there isn't an issue. If OP got something and it's not working as intended then obviously something is of issue.

Exactly, I didnt buy this ram to run at lower speed then advertised, also I'm at loss now, my old ram ran faster and at higher OC. This thing won't budge above 2200Mhz POS lol.. -_-

Toss up the BIOS screenies with tertiary timings, PLOX. Also, Kiongston said they didn't want to pay shipping to send me ram for testing, so fuck Kingston.

But I love you, man, so toss up the screens, lets see if we can help you out.

Yeah, I said fuck Kingston. Not surprised your happier with the Crucial.

I already sold my old ram, wish i just stick with it


Anyway here are bios settings. I also played with tertiary timings a bit 1st 3 values, 4-8-6, 5-8-7, 5-8-8 and nada..


This is at 2133MHz atm, with a little tighter main timings.. Rest is at auto.. Also I showed TWR how it doesnt go over 16..

Spoiler

I use to run that Crucial 4x4GB OC'ed @ 2400MHZ like these 1st 3 values 4-6-6..

EDIT: Is this Corsair Vengance Pro 2x8GB 2400MHZ CL11 compatible?

Now I saw this wants tWR 20?? here in this review, that would really be a bummer if its not compatible. I would buy it in another town and RMA'ing that would be a pain.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7575/corsair-vengeance-pro-review-2x8-gb-at-ddr32400-101212-165-v


Although I stumbled on this site, dunno how reliable it is, but it says my Deluxe should be 10 or 100% compatible?
http://www.pc-specs.com/ram/Corsair/Corsair_CMY16GX3M2A2400C11A_Vengeance_Pro_gold_Arbeitsspeicher_16GB_(2x_8GB,_2400MHz,_CL11)_DDR3-RAM_Kit/310/Compatible_Motherboards

 

[Toothless]

I pointed out just an example . We have here from 11 to 12 , even a lesser change than 10 to 11 ! So what , nothing !

Migrate to X99 and quad channel DDR4 RAM . Then it will make a huge difference

You're still not getting the point, so I'm done trying to explain it to you.

EDIT: Is this Corsair Vengance Pro 2x8GB 2400MHZ CL11 compatible?

Now I saw this wants tWR 20?? here in this review, that would really be a bummer if its not compatible. I would buy it in another town and RMA'ing that would be a pain.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7575/corsair-vengeance-pro-review-2x8-gb-at-ddr32400-101212-165-v


Although I stumbled on this site, dunno how reliable it is, but it says my Deluxe should be 10 or 100% compatible?
http://www.pc-specs.com/ram/Corsair/Corsair_CMY16GX3M2A2400C11A_Vengeance_Pro_gold_Arbeitsspeicher_16GB_(2x_8GB,_2400MHz,_CL11)_DDR3-RAM_Kit/310/Compatible_Motherboards

Just to make sure, have you contacted ASUS about it?

 

[TheHunter]

I posted at ROG forums and Pm Raja, no response yet.

Although now when I checked memory compatibility list I saw Kingston hyperx Beast as"supported" but older model with tighter timings. Green pcb with cl11-13-13-30.
When I bought this ram I was secretly hopping it would be this old green pcb, but nah..

Anyway thanks all for your help
I've returned it to the shop now, was totally pissed at this issue and asked my money back.. so i guess it doesnt matter anymore.

I wanted to play it safe and now ordered G.skill tridentx 2×8GB 2400mhz cl10-12-12-30 instead, but will have to wait 1 week.. I saw this is kinda shitty oc'er above 2400mhz, but 2400mhz seems to be the best bandwidth 36gb/s for my mobo anyway.

 

[RejZoR]

Not sure if I've missed it, but have you tried the MemOK button on the motherboard? That thing does wonders. At least it did on my old X58 where I had two different triple channel kits paired together.

 

[TheHunter]

Yep, I had to press that everytime it went into a boot on off loop, so it reset back to stock ram xmp off setting.

 

[TheHunter]

Just heads up, got new G.skill TridentX 2400MHZ CL10 2x8GB yesterday and runs just fine, booted right away. Kingston sux haha

I've even tested higher 2600MHZ @ CL11-13-13-31-1T and it worked too, 2666MHZ no go sadly.
But I got negative scaling @ 2600MHz e.g. 31GB/s read (had to tighten timings), with auto mobo detection timings was just 26GB/s.

default 2400MHz with a bit tighten adv. timings
CR, tRFC, tFAW, tRTR, tWCL..

This is also better then my old ram OC'ed to 2400MHz, so Im happy with that

 

[Ferrum Master]

I pointed out just an example . We have here from 11 to 12 , even a lesser change than 10 to 11 ! So what , nothing !

Migrate to X99 and quad channel DDR4 RAM . Then it will make a huge difference

Your suggestions often seem to be ridiculous...

Kingston sux haha

I avoid kingston like plague...

Your latency is already tight ass... I guess it couldn't even be less. I would like also to upgrade while DDR3 is cheap, but I really like very low profile ram sticks, as they don't screw with behemoth coolers... My Crucial are not that bad, but I cannot even dream of going 2600MHz, only some Sandys could do that...

 

[mobiuus]

ok glad u happy now...
i have a question regarding cpu - same as mine intel i7 4770k @ 4.7GHz [1.284v], cache 4.3GHz>>>nice oc on that voltage
but u use 4.5ghz for 24/7 right?? on what voltages?
is your cpu engineering sample or what? mine is c0 and i can do 4.5ghz with 1.267 (i'm happy with that)
just courious to see what other ppl have

 

[TheHunter]

Thanks,

About cpu, no its retail. Bought it right at release back in June 2013.. its a funny batch code, didnt see much of it.. some L308B202..

Anyway, yes I use that OC 24/7 with adaptive voltage and "dynamic" multi acording to windows power plan.

Here are my cpu/cache voltages

Cpu
X44 @ 1.140v
X45 @ 1.175v
X46 @ 1.234v
X47 @ 1.284v

Cache

X41 @ 1.125v
X42 @ 1.153v (usually use this, its that sweet spot but atm testing x43 again)
X43 @ 1.21v

In gaming and normal usage I dont see it above 65C. Usually in low 45 - 50c area, by encoding etc up to 70c or a little higher, still acceptable.

At 4.6ghz its a bit cooler though, but use 4.7ghz just because I still can