Wait, to replace actual DDR5 6000-32 (AM5)

[Klemc]

Hello,

My PC is :
KF560C32RSK2-32 (that i would upgrade when/if DDR5 became improved, signle/dual rank.......?)
7800X3D
B650E-E
4070ti
1000w shift

About the RAM:
... i think about to upgrade to the best possible sticks (2x16), sooner or later... when/if there will be DDR5 that could really be better, for this computer setup specifically (CPU)...
... so, i ask you what are the important specs in PDF page (url of my sticks) ?.. and how much time should i wait (if needed) to be sure to grab improved DDR5 all in all compard to my actual ones ?
I search the best/perfect sticks for this setup, that's it... also there is the XMP/DOCP thingie, actually XMP didn't bothered my MB, i think, even, it's a full AMD (not the GPU btw) !

i really don't understand even one thing about RAM memory, i need to be advised

Based on a 7800X3D !

 

[Kapone33]

If you are looking for stable and fast RAM for AM5, make sure you look for Expo verified units. Expo has been created specifically for AM5 CPUs. When looking at Mega Transfers 6000 is good but the timings are also important. Look for 30. If you want 30-30-34 e.g. you will have to pay a premium. The thing is with the Vcache on X3D chips, Memory is not as important as GPU memory unless you are not optimized that way.

I do believe that we will be seeing faster 2X16 kits when those new 24GB and 32GB modules become more common.

 

[Klemc]

If you are looking for stable and fast RAM for AM5, make sure you look for Expo verified units. Expo has been created specifically for AM5 CPUs. When looking at Mega Transfers 6000 is good but the timings are also important. Look for 30. If you want 30-30-34 e.g. you will have to pay a premium. The thing is with the Vcache on X3D chips, Memory is not as important as GPU memory unless you are not optimized that way.

I do believe that we will be seeing faster 2X16 kits when those new 24GB and 32GB modules become more common.

Well yeah, i can wait a full year from now tbf !
I don't O/C, not even DOCP (XMP equivalent Bios in Asus AMD's boards), but it works well (even tweaked profile).

My QVL, would not update btw, i presume:

ROG STRIX B650E-E GAMING WIFI | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG France

The ROG Strix B650E-E Gaming WiFi is a future-ready B-series beast, featuring 16 + 2 power stages, hyperspeed DDR5 memory, and next-gen PCIe® 5.0 connectivity. It features four M.2 slots with heatsinks, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 support, WiFi 6E, AI Cooling II, AI Networking, Two-Way AI Noise Cancelation...

rog.asus.com

 

[Kapone33]

Well yeah, i can wait a full year from now tbf !
I don't O/C, not even DOCP (XMP equivalent Bios in Asus AMD's boards), but it works well (even tweaked profile).

My QVL, would not update btw, i presume:

ROG STRIX B650E-E GAMING WIFI | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG France

The ROG Strix B650E-E Gaming WiFi is a future-ready B-series beast, featuring 16 + 2 power stages, hyperspeed DDR5 memory, and next-gen PCIe® 5.0 connectivity. It features four M.2 slots with heatsinks, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 support, WiFi 6E, AI Cooling II, AI Networking, Two-Way AI Noise Cancelation...

rog.asus.com

BIOS updates can improve RAM support. This is a brand new platform. It is more solid than AM4/X370 was but expect lot's of free support updates as you go. The QVL in the manual in the box no, but they might update the website. We may see something like that when the next batch of CPUs gets released.

 

[Klemc]

I'm on 2214, perfectly working

ROG STRIX B650E-E GAMING WIFI
BIOS 2413
Version 2413
11.24 MB 2024/02/07
"Disable STAPM of AM5 Ryzen™ 8000 processors to improve system performance.

BIOS 2412
Version 2412
11.24 MB 2024/01/30
"Update AGESA version to Combo AM5 PI 1.1.0.2b

BIOS 2214
Version 2214
11.23 MB 2024/01/04
"1. Update AGESA version to Combo AM5 PI 1.1.0.1
2. Improve system stability
3. This update includes the patch for the LogoFAIL vulnerabilities
4. Support graphics card with M.2 storage

 

[Sarajiel]

I don't O/C, not even DOCP (XMP equivalent Bios in Asus AMD's boards), but it works well (even tweaked profile).

Too bad, because you pretty much already have one of the best DDR5-6000 memory kits with Hynix M-die out there. Any performance increase from wasting money on a different M-die or A-die kit will be negligible since most XMP/EXPO profiles are fairly conservative to make sure they work in a wide variety of motherboards.
Literally the only upgrade that is somewhat useful in your case, would be replacing those sticks with a 48 GB kit, that also comes with Hynix M-die or A-die. Like the bigger/faster Fury Renegade kits or a more expensive Corsair kit with CL30. For those it shouldn't matter if they come with EXPO or XMP, because most manufacturers use the same values in both anyways. I'd avoid G.Skill kits without EXPO, because those tend to be nasty on Ryzen 7000.

If you really want to improve performance, make sure you have your BIOS updated to at least AGESA 1.1.x.x and tighten your timings and if you feel adventurous overclock both the memory (DDR5-6200/maybe 6400) and the infinity fabric (2100 - maybe 2200MHz). But those overclocks depend completely on the quality of your CPU and basically require active cooling for your memory sticks in a daily system.

 

[Kapone33]

I'm on 2214, perfectly working

ROG STRIX B650E-E GAMING WIFI
BIOS 2413
Version 2413
11.24 MB 2024/02/07
"Disable STAPM of AM5 Ryzen™ 8000 processors to improve system performance.

BIOS 2412
Version 2412
11.24 MB 2024/01/30
"Update AGESA version to Combo AM5 PI 1.1.0.2b

BIOS 2214
Version 2214
11.23 MB 2024/01/04
"1. Update AGESA version to Combo AM5 PI 1.1.0.1
2. Improve system stability
3. This update includes the patch for the LogoFAIL vulnerabilities
4. Support graphics card with M.2 storage

Unless you run into issues it is always good to update the BIOS. You don't want to forget when you get your new CPU on AM5.

 

[Klemc]

Unless you run into issues it is always good to update the BIOS. You don't want to forget when you get your new CPU on AM5.

Got issues with 1636 or 54 (2023/8+9)+ can't ermelmber, back to 1616 (2023/5) ( or 36 btw).

Now 2214 no hurry.

//

USB, issues !

Filtered my QVL (PDF)

Too bad, because you pretty much already have one of the best DDR5-6000 memory kits with Hynix M-die out there. Any performance increase from wasting money on a different M-die or A-die kit will be negligible since most XMP/EXPO profiles are fairly conservative to make sure they work in a wide variety of motherboards.
Literally the only upgrade that is somewhat useful in your case, would be replacing those sticks with a 48 GB kit, that also comes with Hynix M-die or A-die. Like the bigger/faster Fury Renegade kits or a more expensive Corsair kit with CL30. For those it shouldn't matter if they come with EXPO or XMP, because most manufacturers use the same values in both anyways. I'd avoid G.Skill kits without EXPO, because those tend to be nasty on Ryzen 7000.

If you really want to improve performance, make sure you have your BIOS updated to at least AGESA 1.1.x.x and tighten your timings and if you feel adventurous overclock both the memory (DDR5-6200/maybe 6400) and the infinity fabric (2100 - maybe 2200MHz). But those overclocks depend completely on the quality of your CPU and basically require active cooling for your memory sticks in a daily system.

The only adventure that will happen is that i will set the VCore to 1.2 manually (auto goes near more or less 1.3) after set DIOCP (XMP profiles) ON, and that's all in my whole BIOS life.

 

[dgianstefani]

EXPO may be fast, but stable is a lottery.

Wait for the redriver kits.

 

[Sarajiel]

The only adventure that will happen is that i will set the VCore to 1.2 manually (auto goes near more or less 1.3) after set DIOCP (XMP profiles) ON, and that's all in my whole BIOS life.

Not sure what a Sus preloads as defaults for your sticks, but I assume that D.O.C.P. already does a minor overclock on your memory kit similar to what Gigglebyte does on my AM5 boards when enabling low latency and high bandwidth mode.

That said, you won't find any significantly faster memory kits right now, no matter if they are on the QVL or not, or if they come with XMP or EXPO. Running your memory controller in 2:1 mode at DDR5-8000 won't probably work on your board anyway since it has 4 DIMM slots, and DDR5-7600 is usually slower than DDR5-6000 in 1:1 mode.

 

[Klemc]

Not sure what a Sus preloads as defaults for your sticks, but I assume that D.O.C.P. already does a minor overclock on your memory kit similar to what Gigglebyte does on my AM5 boards when enabling low latency and high bandwidth mode.

That said, you won't find any significantly faster memory kits right now, no matter if they are on the QVL or not, or if they come with XMP or EXPO. Running your memory controller in 2:1 mode at DDR5-8000 won't probably work on your board anyway since it has 4 DIMM slots, and DDR5-7600 is usually slower than DDR5-6000 in 1:1 mode.

Would it help if i upload HWInfo full sshot without DOCP, and with ON-"Asus"Tweaked (the most advenced one) profile ??

 

[Sarajiel]

Would it help if i upload HWInfo full sshot without DOCP, and with ON-"Asus"Tweaked (the most advenced one) profile ??

Better post a ZenTimings screenshot, but unless you are willing to manually tune your settings, you will leave performance on the table. However, since I don't have any Asus AM5 boards, I won't be able to give you specific pointers...

In case you want to go down the manual tuning rabbit hole, have fun watching dozens of hours of Buildzoid videos on youtube. He is pretty much the #1 overclocker for Hynix memory chips on AM5.

 

[Klemc]

Idle, PowerMax (1min CPU+GPU)

Bios changes log, from stock to DOCP tweaked profile (no manual VCore).

DOCP ON, idle + PowerMax (1min CPU+GPU)

For ZenTimings (will get it), i take idle and after PowerMax sshots, in stock and DOCP too ? that's all ??

 

[Sarajiel]

For ZenTimings (will get it), i take idle and after PowerMax sshots, in stock and DOCP too ? that's all ??

Sadly, HWInfo doesn't really display any interesting sub-timings, but it looks like Asus is actually a bit more tame than Gigabyte when it comes to preloading timings from what I can see on those screenshots.

Pretty much the simplest way to increase performance without much tweaking of any other sub-timing is increasing the time between memory refreshes on DDR5. ZenTimings will show those times both in nanoseconds and clock cycles. If D.O.C.P. preloads those to a decent value, your current system is probably okay-ish when it comes to performance. If it doesn't, you should consider tweaking your memory timings manually.

 

[dgianstefani]

Increase tREFI and decrease tRFC.

 

[ThrashZone]

Increase tREFI and decrease tRFC.

Hi,
What is the limit for refi on amd
Intel it's +-65534 hehe

 

[Sarajiel]

What is the limit for refi on amd
Intel it's +-65534 hehe

It's 65535 for AMD on AM5. I always thought that Intel allows you to go beyond that?

Personally I run an M-die kit at DDR5-6200 on one of my AM5 CPUs maxed out without requiring a fan. For DDR5-6400 that CPU and memory combination requires active cooling to max tREFI. tRFC translates to ~190ns in both cases, since that G.Skill kit is kinda awful.

 

[Klemc]

ZenTimings worked in a WIn7 VM, GUI with alert missing power access, and installed his service and driver correctly, BUT, my other PC doesn't at all on WIn11 installs service or drvier !!

I will try dualboot from Win10, we'll ee...

//

NO luck :\

 

[ThrashZone]

I don't have a intel ddr5 so I was posting for ddr4 max.

 

[Sarajiel]

I will try dualboot from Win10, we'll ee...

ZenTimings 1.31, the current one I think, should work both on Win10 and Win11 as long as you have or can escalate to admin privileges.

 

[Klemc]

ZenTimings 1.31, the current one I think, should work both on Win10 and Win11 as long as you have or can escalate to admin privileges.

Well, i thinked the update DLL was not needed, but that's was the cause !

Well, 5min it's ready sshot two no XMP and XMP Tweaked BIOS settings loaded !!

Increase tREFI and decrease tRFC.

So,

tRFC
708 DOCP 884

tREFI
9347 DOCP 65535

 

[ir_cow]

Hi,
What is the limit for refi on amd
Intel it's +-65534 hehe

It's the same. Go as high as you want. It is harder to keep stable above 65k. I don't even bother.

Personally I would just tweak that memory kit instead of buying a new one. Probably can get down to CAS 26 if you pump in 1.5v

 

[Klemc]

It's the same. Go as high as you want. It is harder to keep stable above 65k. I don't even bother.

Personally I would just tweak that memory kit instead of buying a new one. Probably can get down to CAS 26 if you pump in 1.5v

RAM timings are a mystery to me, i'm even afraid to look at the infinite list of lines in my BIOS

 

[Sarajiel]

tREFI
9347 DOCP 65535

Looks like Asus maxes the only easy timing already out. If you want to go beyond that you will have to manually tune and stress-test timings. However, you can definitely save your money for a better kit, unless you want or need more memory anyway.

Probably can get down to CAS 26 if you pump in 1.5v

CAS latency is pretty much irrelevant for DDR5 as are most other primaries, but he definitely has a lot of headroom in the secondary and tertiary timings. When comparing his M-die kit to mine, I'd guess he could easily get about 5% performance for a stable daily setup.

 

[Klemc]

Looks like Asus maxes the only easy timing already out. If you want to go beyond that you will have to manually tune and stress-test timings. However, you can definitely save your money for a better kit, unless you want or need more memory anyway.


CAS latency is pretty much irrelevant for DDR5 as are most other primaries, but he definitely has a lot of headroom in the secondary and tertiary timings. When comparing his M-die kit to mine, I'd guess he could easily get about 5% performance for a stable daily setup.

Well, it looks complicated a lot to find about timings...

Question is,
if i upgrade to new 2x16 (or more) 6000>6400-30, next year when there is new DDR5 out proven to be an evolution over older DDR5, what should i look at in specs ?.. like rank... !? to get RAM that works better out of the box.