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We're Changing How we Handle Pricing in Graphics Card Reviews

bug

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I believe the reasoning here is sound. I have seen reviews listing MSRP and street prices together (often the street price is linked live directly to a reputable seller, but in this particular case, it's the lack of reputable sellers that is being addressed).

That said, I have couple of things I don't like:
1. Newegg as a reference. Newegg is a marketplace now. It still has great search so you can actually find stuff over there, but I don;t think it's the great store that it was 15 years ago. Maybe consider getting the price from the manufacturer directly, if the manufacturer has stock or otherwise directs you to a reseller that does.
2. Ebay as a reference. I believe many people tend to avoid ebay (strong buyer protection makes sellers keep some distance), I'm not sure that is the best reference these days. Unfortunately I'm not using ebay and I'm not US based, so I can't suggest a better reference.
 
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I mean, take it out of the PC space for a moment. If you read a review on say a washing machine that said it was fantastic and way better than anything before, and only cost $500 - then went to buy it and found it was actually $800... would you trust or go back to that review site anymore?

How about a car? Say a $30,000 car that ticks all the check boxes but the dealers all have them marked up to $50,000? That does sometimes happen and people will dump entire brands for those kinds of things.
But that is how stupid/careless people will act... Smart people would double check the prices and verify if the store/dealer are overcharging or the reported price was wrong.

The problem is that the price won't stay like that forever and people should be able to understand if something they are buying is overpriced as hell or not.
 
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bug

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What hurts readers is reading a review on a product that is not actually available with a price that is incorrect.

Not everyone is completely aware of what is going on with these CPU/GPU markets. Someone who is just visiting specifically to read a review on a particular product, and maybe buy the product, is likely to get mad there is even a review up and hence wasting their time.
If you just read a review and want to jumping, I'm guessing you're getting exactly what you deserve.
I mean, take it out of the PC space for a moment. If you read a review on say a washing machine that said it was fantastic and way better than anything before, and only cost $500 - then went to buy it and found it was actually $800... would you trust or go back to that review site anymore?

How about a car? Say a $30,000 car that ticks all the check boxes but the dealers all have them marked up to $50,000? That does sometimes happen and people will dump entire brands for those kinds of things.
Not the best comparison. I can get a car from another dealership or a washing machine from somewhere else.
In this case, you can't get the product anywhere, so supply and demand works differently.

Fwiw, I wouldn't mind seeing these flagged as paper launches with no mention of the price whatsoever until there's a steady supply to be had.
 

coint

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I called a few stores around me and its seems like most of them are pausing updates on the online store for stock updates, and prioritizing customers who walk in to the store and ask about the cards.
I was able to secure a pseudo backorder from a store in a nearby town that has a supplier.
 
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IDK, It seems to me it presents questionable conduct... with a level of legitimacy.
I think people realize what they want and willing to pay, although with the PpD graph it helps advertises it! That someone gets such level, for forking out an extra 36% appear sensible. Be careful what we promote as the Jeanie might not get stuffed back in the bottle that easy. The entirety of the channel is observing this again, as they did during spikes during mining, and think is this the standard the market could endure? Showing such "unpalatable" pricing could just make it "palatable", and everywhere along the supply chain considers we need our piece of that appropriate.
 
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It should stay the way it is. The MSRP listed is helpful in referencing back to what the "Original" price is. I use it all the time to gauge wether scalping is declining and how close to getting a card at MSRP is.
 
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Or... to keep it easy, you just state in the review... price to performance ratio based on MSRP (YMMV due to several reasons).

I would agree that this would be enough if MSRP was still representing something but sadly nowadays this is no more the case . Both Nvidia and more lately AMD have shown that their MSRPs are becoming at best very optimistic if not straight made up ! Indeed as shown by the 6800XT ( just as the latest example ) AMD is claiming 650$ MSRP when board partners such as Asrock or Sapphire claim they are unable to hit said MSRP despite hitting record low margins , so clearly not because said 3rd party partners got greedy and decided to profit from the current global situation .

What does this mean ? Well it clearly means that the MSRP is becoming a bait and switch tool . Just as an example you know your latest and greatest GPU ( product A ) will be sold at no less than 800$ by 3rd party partners ( which you advertise is where the vast majority of your die allocation is going towards) , this would put you in a disadvantage compared to your competition ( product B ) in the eyes of reviewers for various reasons and obviously this will be harmfull for your product , so naturally you pull a 100/150/200$ lower MSRP ( knowing that this applies only to your FE / Stock cooler that you are going to sell in very limited quantities for very limited periods ) which is what said reviewers are going to take into account to make their final recommendation , so magically your GPU ends-up being the recommended product deptite intrinsically being the inferior product .

This is where this new TPU methodology comes to play and this is why i foundamentaly agree with the principle . By showing both advertised MSRP and actual market pricing not only reviewers can wash their hands knowing they are no longer making recomendations based on false values but also customers ( readers ) can easely evaluate themselves how far X or Y product actual value is from it's advertised MSRP and make purchasing decisions based on this . This will push reviewers to put much more emphasis on such practices , which in it's turn will give to readers/customers situational awareness , which ultimately will push companies to stop with said practices or at the very least advertise much more realistic MSRP values !
 
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Maybe a valid option would be to update the "Value" part of reviews after the product has been launched. Because reviews often get released before product launch.

Before the product launches you could fill the Value part of the review with a determination of what would be a reasonable price. E.g. "for 500 this would be a great card; for 600 this card would be reasonable priced; for 700 this card would be overpriced.
And afterwards, when the real world price turns out the review could be adjusted to that.
 
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Finally some one in the review community that's Tring to do something fair.

Unrealistic msrp price or bait and switch technique are/were screwing the review assessment.
I welcome the initiative
 
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What hurts readers is reading a review on a product that is not actually available with a price that is incorrect.

Not everyone is completely aware of what is going on with these CPU/GPU markets. Someone who is just visiting specifically to read a review on a particular product, and maybe buy the product, is likely to get mad there is even a review up and hence wasting their time.

I mean, take it out of the PC space for a moment. If you read a review on say a washing machine that said it was fantastic and way better than anything before, and only cost $500 - then went to buy it and found it was actually $800... would you trust or go back to that review site anymore?

How about a car? Say a $30,000 car that ticks all the check boxes but the dealers all have them marked up to $50,000? That does sometimes happen and people will dump entire brands for those kinds of things.
Worth remembering that though the internet is global , supply isn't, so even at times when you can buy the GPU you want, many cannot.
I agree with these changes , the MSRP is irrelevant , perhaps news outlets drumming this fact home might wake these companies up a bit.
I mean 14nm is not so much burdened , surely to FF someone could have made something pliable and worth selling on it And mass manufacturable to sell instead of nothing.
We'll have apple making unicorn GPUs for pc if this shit goes long-term.:p
 
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Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
Can you put a reminder or script to change it to MSRP when products do become available?
 
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Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
I would agree that this would be enough if MSRP was still representing something but sadly nowadays this is no more the case . Both Nvidia and more lately AMD have shown that their MSRPs are becoming at best very optimistic if not straight made up ! Indeed as shown by the 6800XT ( just as the latest example ) AMD is claiming 650$ MSRP when board partners such as Asrock or Sapphire claim they are unable to hit said MSRP despite hitting record low margins , so this is not because said 3rd partners got greedy and decided to profit from the current global situation .

What does this mean ? Well it clearly means that the MSRP is becoming a bait and switch tool . Just as an example you know your latest and greatest GPU ( product A ) will be sold at no less than 800$ by 3rd party partners ( which you advertise is where the vast majority of your die allocation is going towards) , this would put you in a disadvantage compared to your competition ( product B ) in the eyes of reviewers for various reasons and obviously this will be harmfull for your product , so naturally you pull a 100/150/200$ lower MSRP which is what said reviewers are going to take into account to make their final recommendation , so magically your GPU ends-up being the recommended product deptite intrinsically being the inferior product .

This is where this new TPU methodology comes to play and this is why i foundamentaly agree with the principle . By showing both advertised MSRP and actual market pricing not only reviewers can wash their hands knowing they are no longer making recomandations based on false values but also customers ( readers ) can easely evaluate themselves how far X or Y product actual value is from it's advertised MSRP and make puchasing decisions based on this . This will push reviewers to put much more emphasis on such practices and ultimately this will push companies to stop with said practices or at the very least advertise realistic MSRP values !
This new quoting is a PITA to pick things out........ or I suck at it... 'thumbsdown'. :p

This is the best post I've seen supporting it, but still not convinced. Off the top, I don't buy the deep state bait and switch argument. These prices are market condition driven and there is always some play among brands - water...is wet.

Let me ask this to W1z....is the price going to get updated in the old reviews as time goes on? If those don't get updated, is that dataset any better than the static MSRP in the first place? What happens if you review a product later in the cycle when availability and pricing is different than the early part of a launch? If someone looks at an older review of said model, they'll find the pricing price to perf. ratio off. In essence, the only place you'll find accurate price to perf. information is from the newest GPU review. That stinks when looking at a specific card... in order to get appropriate data for purchasing you'd read the review with old data, then you'd need to read a, perhaps an unrelated, article to see what the current situation is. So does it add any value, current pricing, even out of the gate?

The chart (the one one the first page of a review, the specs) should have the MSRP listed and a link, where possible to the card. You can use the conclusion or the value section to get your point across about availability and scalping and whatnot... but for main chart, list MSRP and link to NE or Amazon (both of these you can sort by sells by and ships by NE/Amazon... this removes the 3rd party sellers where prices can be wonky - if a user wants to use them, they can do so). Pricing varies wildly anyway by country and vendor... it's not making things any more accurate for most users.

The charts later in the review (example in 1st post) should just be MSRP. If you want to inform the masses, give them a handy equation to check themselves... otherwise with static data, it's just as stale forcing readers to find the latest GPU review to see where it now stands. Good for getting more linking to the latest reviews, for sure.

And please, I just read the first post again, don't estimate scalpers prices for cards...any cards. Rattling it off in text in the article, sure, but using it in a chart... and again with static data... just doesn't age well and is 'obsolete' the second a new review comes out.

As I understand things (which may be the problem... how I'm understanding it).. the new process just feels like it is overcomplicating things for very little ROI to the end user. I'd rather see the time searching for prices and pondering how much a scalper would sell a card, go into cleaning up the (all) articles (fact checking... typos...etc) than this. :)
 
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You can't win either way you swing it. For example the MSRP on a 6800 XT was reported at $650. Usually you'd see a variety of GPU manufacturers and card models in stock and they'd range from right around the MSRP to maybe 20% price hike due to rarity/special designs and such. That means a $650 MSRP with 20% puts a high-end premium priced card around $780.

Then, about a week back ASUS said they were hiking up prices on hardware - we saw upwards of 40% on the list provide in this story on TPU.

Today at MicroCenter I saw a single ASUS 6800 XT ROG on the shelf.....priced at just over a thousand dollars! Holy f-buckets, Batman! Over a grand for a card that maybe should have a premium price of around that $780.

I don't see the benefit of trying to suggest a "possible" retail price of any GPU when it'll just change so rapidly. You'd have to be constantly going back to adjust prices and if you don't price things right you'll piss people and if you change the prices you'll piss people off for whatever reason it would make them mad.
 
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Honestly I think this would hurt readers as when they see the price they will believe that the price is right and push them to pay scalpers fee. Seeing the MSRP will deter a lot of users from overpaying for products that they are interested in. A Lot would wait for MSRP versus wanting to pay over.

It was perfect the way it was

MSRP will still be available. This is just adding additional depth to the price part of the review. You don't have to get rid of MSRP to also explore what customers may actually pay to get a graphics card.

Essentially what youre doing is confusing people by providing too much non-pertinent information. MSRP is literally all that is needed. It takes a person 30 seconds tops to research the product's price, price history, and availability after the fact. MSRP allows the consumer to gauge pricing and decide for themselves whether a price presented to them is a good deal or not, this process takes the brain seconds.

Beyond that, I do not need and will always dismiss someone who lives in Europe telling me what things cost in the US and vice versa; apply this logic to other situations, it doesnt make any sense.

You kind of rebut your own point. If someone needs to research current pricing of a card that should have been given in the review, then clearly that information is pertinent. You'd have more grounds for saying the MSRP is "not-pertinent" as no one is actually paying those prices.

In the end it benefits the customer to know the "MSRP" and the "Street Price" of video cards and I see no harm in providing both.

You can't win either way you swing it. For example the MSRP on a 6800 XT was reported at $650. Usually you'd see a variety of GPU manufacturers and card models in stock and they'd range from right around the MSRP to maybe 20% price hike due to rarity/special designs and such. That means a $650 MSRP with 20% puts a high-end premium priced card around $780.

Then, about a week back ASUS said they were hiking up prices on hardware - we saw upwards of 40% on the list provide in this story on TPU.

Today at MicroCenter I saw a single ASUS 6800 XT ROG on the shelf.....priced at just over a thousand dollars! Holy f-buckets, Batman! Over a grand for a card that maybe should have a premium price of around that $780.

I don't see the benefit of trying to suggest a "possible" retail price of any GPU when it'll just change so rapidly. You'd have to be constantly going back to adjust prices and if you don't price things right you'll piss people and if you change the prices you'll piss people off for whatever reason it would make them mad.

AMD's new 6000 series cards all carry all larger than normal premium.
 

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Create a badge for the conclusion page that indicates it's a paper release.

That's a lot of extra work. You'll need to update the scalp price of every product in the list every time you write an article and the price could fluctuate wildly. Writing it this way could make the pricing chart irrelevant the following week not to mention confusing when comparing two articles.

Address the problem itself, low quantity. In an effort to have the best product on paper, these companies have chosen low volume nodes. With Zen 4 on the 5nm node, being all but gobbled up by Apple, Zen 6000 will be the same story all over again.
 
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Wound't there be a way to implement a dynamic graphs in the review where consumers can see how the price has change through the months with a line showing where the msrp is?
This way users can see the price fluctuation even months after the review was published and decide for them self if the current price is too high.
 

bug

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If they show both MSRP and "current" price like in the example, I'll be fine.

The problem is finding a good way to get the "current" price. Plus, what do you do when the "current" price changes from one week to the other?

Address the problem itself, low quantity. In an effort to have the best product on paper, these companies have chosen low volume nodes. With Zen 4 on the 5nm node, being all but gobbled up by Apple, Zen 6000 will be the same story all over again.
We don't know if this is done deliberately by the manufacturers. It could be anything from Covid-related supply issues, Nvidia's choice of the new GDDR6X to fab competition from other markets. Or a combination of all of that.
I sure hope it's not fab capacity related, because that would mean the problem will be with us for years to come.
 
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Going to make them as low as possible? :D
 
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Not the best comparison. I can get a car from another dealership.
In this case, you can't get the product anywhere, so supply and demand works differently.
Depends on the car and how long the wait list is due to demand.
For example there is a specific model in high demand here with a MRSP of $22,000, the wait list is a minimum of 6 months but often over 12 months, the actual selling price through a Dealer is over $30,000, which varies if a buyer wants to offer more to cut their wait.
 

bug

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Depends on the car and how long the wait list is due to demand.
For example there is a specific model in high demand here with a MRSP of $22,000, the wait list is a minimum of 6 months but often over 12 months, the actual selling price through a Dealer is over $30,000, which varies if a buyer wants to offer more to cut their wait.
Fair enough. I was thinking more like your average Corolla.
 
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Don't really matter to me, I have my budget, if it doesn't fall within my budget I don't buy it. If I have to wait 4 years so be it. My card works fine, I will turn down game settings before spending more than $350 cnd on a video card.
 
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Wound't there be a way to implement a dynamic graphs in the review where consumers can see how the price has change through the months with a line showing where the msrp is?
This way users can see the price fluctuation even months after the review was published and decide for them self if the current price is too high.

The problem with this is that ultimately what value is it bringing if the review itself isn't updating to reflect pricing changes? I can understand having street value at the time the review is made as the review can be written to take that into account. Having a graph with updating pricing over time that in fact has no bearing on the actual review or it's content doesn't really help.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
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Nice, since the EU stores have prices similar to or even more expensive than US scalpers i welcome this. It will be a far better aproximation of what the price in the EU stores is if you look at the ebay price.
And no, it is not the tax difference, here the GPUs are minimally +$200 without the tax. I think it is because the EU gets barely any stock compared to the US.

And lets not forget the HW manufacturers greed - the msrp rising for all because of US import tarrifs, which the EU doesn't have and collect. They just pocket the extra money.
 
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Joined
May 27, 2014
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I welcome this. I asked you something similar months ago without answer.

I'd also welcome interactive performance/price graph where one can input local prices of several GPUs and (maybe?) even discars certain games they have no interest in playing.

Thanks for this!
 
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