What I think about Piranha Games as I've lost hope for the BattleTech franchise.

[EntropyZ]

I was looking forward to this game for years. And Piranha Games decided on an inferior platform on which I won't even own the game after purchasing it. And their mouthpiece guy lies to the fan base.

Looks like I'm sticking with playing BattleTech and MechWarrior 4 with mods. Unless they un-f*** the situation they brought themselves to.

I think there needs to be another video game crash like the one few decades ago to weed everything out and start anew. Trouble is, there's too much money at stake in this industry.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Can you give a brief summary, since many of us can’t watch at work? What did the Battletech devs do?

 

[EntropyZ]

Can you give a brief summary, since many of us can’t watch at work? What did the Battletech devs do?

Essentially, they decided on biting the Epic Games Store bullet to be an exclusive, it could have lowered the Unreal Engine licensing cost and got a better cut off of individual purchases on EGS. A lot of people that pre-ordered the game expected it to be on Steam or GOG. But they said they didn't need to worry about money or anything of the sort, their reasoning is that they wanted to gain some traction to make the game stand out more, so it won't get buried under other game releases and said their decision wouldn't impact them negatively all that much.

They changed the FAQ and the site while removing information about pre-orders and the upcoming beta. While pre-orders were still happening for 3 days after the change and announcement to the community which is actively following the development. They wanted to get as many people to pre-order and keep the money, but as soon as people found out about what happened. Fans that are following progress on the game are less than pleased either due to being lied to or the game being tied to or the Epic Games Store exclusivity.

4000+ people alone that were in the BattleTech community cancelled their pre-orders which is around 20-ish % of the existing pre-orders. I just found out about this now, I'm glad I didn't pre-order, I'm against them unless devs can show me a finished product.

SidAlpha mentions he's not okay with pre-orders and many other people have been burned by pre-orders too, it's not just with Piranha Games, EGS exclusivity itself isn't too bad and he doesn't condemn it. But PGS' marketing guy was making the announcement to the community after the facts.

A big part of me was hoping the game files were easy to manipulate to allow mods, like BattleTech. But I think it's not happening even though it's UE4. Because I doubt there would be enough content and waiting for un-impressive/lackluster DLC really sucks. Most of the Mech' models still look like asset flips from MWO and BattleTech. And since game devs aren't breaking any boundaries lately, I doubt the missions or the story are going to be above average.

It feels as though it's going to be another EA moment where the franchise is going to be put six-feet under.

Even now after what happened with Fallout 76 and the recent controversy surrounding original Doom cross-platform re-releases requiring Bethesda.net accounts. I'm thinking what the hell is wrong.

I think I've been watching too much of Jim Sterling, but the guy is right.

I remember a time, where knowing a game sequel was announced, I would instantly lose my crap and know it would be good, maybe not perfect, but certainly better in every way. That just isn't the case anymore. I've been doubting and distrusting a lot of what goes on with my favorite game franchises since this decade rolled in.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Essentially, they decided on biting the Epic Games Store bullet to be an exclusive, it could have lowered the Unreal Engine licensing cost and got a better cut off of individual purchases on EGS. A lot of people that pre-ordered the game expected it to be on Steam or GOG. But they said they didn't need to worry about money or anything of the sort, their reasoning is that they wanted to gain some traction to make the game stand out more, so it won't get buried under other game releases and said their decision wouldn't impact them much.

They changed the FAQ and the site and removed information about pre-orders and the upcoming beta. While pre-orders were still happening for 3 days after the change and announcement to the community. They wanted to get as many people to pre-order and keep the money, but as soon as people found out about what happened. Fans that are following progress on the game are less than pleased either due to being lied to or the game being tied to or the Epic Games Store exclusivity.

4000+ people alone that were in the BattleTech community cancelled their pre-orders which is around 20-ish % of the existing pre-orders. I just found out about this now, I'm glad I didn't pre-order, I'm against them unless devs can show me a finished product.

SidAlpha mentions he's not okay with pre-orders and many other people have been burned by pre-orders too, EGS exclusivity itself isn't too bad and he doesn't condemn it. But PGS' marketing guy was making the announcement to the community after the facts.

A big part of me was hoping the game files were easy to manipulate to allow mods, like BattleTech. But I think it's not happening even though it's UE4. Because I doubt there would be enough content and waiting for un-impressive/lackluster DLC really sucks. Most of the Mech' models still look like asset flips from MWO and BattleTech. And since game devs aren't breaking any boundaries lately, I doubt the missions or the story are going to be above average.

It feels as though it's going to be another EA moment where the franchise is going to be put six-feet under.

Even now after what happened with Fallout 76 and the recent controversy surrounding original Doom cross-platform re-releases requiring Bethesda.net accounts. I'm thinking what the hell is wrong.

I think I've been watching too much of Jim Sterling, but the guy is right.

I remember a time, where knowing a game sequel was announced, I would lose my crap and know it would be good, maybe not perfect, but certainly better in every way. That just isn't the case anymore. I've been doubting and distrusting a lot of what goes on with my favorite game franchises since this decade rolled in.

Wow, way more than a synopsis! Thanks.

 

[Voluman]

Erm, title and first post not really says, its about Mechwarrior 5, right? What is the connection with Battletech and what about franchise ? They have no connection as far as i know

 

[rtwjunkie]

Erm, title and first post not really says, its about Mechwarrior 5, right? What is the connection with Battletech and what about franchise ? They have no connection as far as i know

I’m thinking the Mechwarrior 5 move by Pirannha Games means he will stick with Battletech for his Mech fix.

 

[DR4G00N]

MWO was pretty meh, I mean it didn't even have joystick support at launch. Who the heck plays a MW game without a joystick? MW:LL was a better game and it was just a mod for Crysis Wars.

With that I don't expect MW5 to be very good either.

 

[EntropyZ]

I’m thinking the Mechwarrior 5 move by Pirannha Games means he will stick with Battletech for his Mech fix.

Yeah, I've been having far more fun with RogueTech than with the vanilla BattleTech game (watching MechWarrior 5 being not a worthy sequel puts me off, so instead...). Collecting different chassis and rushing to get the best tech while picking different starting points is cool to experiment.

It's not the only popular mod around, but the fanbase for the mod is huge and it's a large part that is following MechWarrior 5 development too.

I haven't been watching the discord chats, but I'm assuming it felt like a nuke dropped when the Epic Game Store announcement was made.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Wow, way more than a synopsis! Thanks.

Also i think i remember the video brushing on the fact that the the CEO or whoever is leading the project said something about the switch to EGS was like a spur of the moment thing. but in truth, they had known about the switch to EGS at least 3-4months in advance if not a little longer but chose not to say anything until plans were already in motion and they couldnt hide it anymore. So its basically a bait and switch.

Video should of also mentioned a guy who pre-ordered his game contacting customer support and asking if they could delay his pre-order another 6-12months till the game is finally out on steam and they straight up cancelled and refunded pre-order and despite him constantly emailing them to get that reversed customer support havent responded to him.

So basically they dont care if they have to refund you. They got their suitcase full of money from Epic and refunding a few thousand people wont hit their margins.

 

[EntropyZ]

At this point I'm thinking consumer choice and/or right isn't in the best of their interests. Which is only enforces that companies look at us like we're just walking money bags straight out of Conkers Bad Fur Day.

In all seriousness, I think at some point people will get used to this and sub-consciously know this sort of behavior is the norm.

"Oh, we made an oopsie. Sowwy.", "Why does this "disgruntled" group of people think we're evil?", "We're totally going to fix this later".


Anyway, do they really believe they're going to bring in new blood that will take interest due to the game appearing on a relatively new and barebones storefront. BattleTech is old and wasn't all that accessible until MechAssault games came out.

I remember having trouble my first time playing MechWarrior 3 and 4. I would either stand like a turret or walk into enemy mechs and shoot them until I get nearly killed by splash damage. I had faint concept of how you can move the torso and steer at the same time while keeping the static target reticle on where you need to shoot, with MW3 it was a bit easier due to arms having actuators and a free reticle which I thought was really nice. The controls weren't exactly easy to master. (Yes I am a heathen who plays Mech games with a mouse and keyboard to this day , mostly in fear that any joystick I could get would break, because back in the day the cheap ones would get destroyed fairly quickly, the deadzone and sensitivity messes up. My dad glued several of them with hot glue for some reason) I think a Logitech Extreme 3D might have survived though.

My friend saw me play MW4:Mercs and said it was so awesome when we were wee lads, it had that C-Bill market and everything. But once he picked it up and tried the training mission, he didn't get past walking with the torso turned in the right direction and that was it.

I really wanted to pilot and look cool in a custom Bushwacker while partaking in a good fight. Guess that's not happening. Too bad the new one from MWO looks like it has a tumor on it. I think the old one from MW3 looked like it should.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Which is only enforces that companies look at us like we're just walking money bags

Honestly, that is essentially all customers are to any company. Their function is to sell and ours to buy. There are greater and lesser degrees of this among different companies, but at the end of the day, we are just customers.

This is why I don’t understand anyone taking up the good fight for some companies, thinking there is loyalty in the other direction from the company too. There isn’t. Business is business, and any company’s job #1 is to look out for themselves first.

 

[bogmali]

Glad I didn't pre-order...been playing MWO since it's inception-burned out and completely stopped playing back in 2013. Editing the title to actually reflect the issue here which is Piranha Games' MW5 and not BattleTech in general.

 

[EntropyZ]

Glad I didn't pre-order...been playing MWO since it's inception-burned out and completely stopped playing back in 2013. Editing the title to actually reflect the issue here which is Piranha Games' MW5 and not BattleTech in general.

I tried. My mind is a mess right now since I haven't gotten proper sleep in days. I ended up editing my posts more than several times like usual.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Honestly, that is essentially all customers are to any company. Their function is to sell and ours to buy. There are greater and lesser degrees of this among different companies, but at the end of the day, we are just customers.

This is why I don’t understand anyone taking up the good fight for some companies, thinking there is loyalty in the other direction from the company too. There isn’t. Business is business, and any company’s job #1 is to look out for themselves first.

I understand that they studio has to look after themselves first. But another thing is. When you crowdfund a game. You have an obligation to keep those promises made. Ive been told that CEOs have to juggle with keeping their staff paid and studios running - that can be a huge worry.

But when you have a met your target for crowdfunding then accept more money from a publisher to make it an exclusive on their platform rather than the most popular out there that most people love and want their games on. then it seems like quite a big stab in the back.

Phoenix Point did the same thing. Crowdfunded the game then decided to make it EGS exclusive but they had never promised to release the game on steam but everyone was assuming that, that was the platform it would be released on.

Not just that. If the developer wanted to switch it to EGS then they should of consulted backers first or at least be more upfront with it. but they keep it quiet for as long as they can because they know they are going to suffer some level or form of backlash for not releasing on steam and everyone knows how far in the dark ages EGS is compared to steam.


If you take crowdfunders money then take another tonne of money from a publisher under the table then something needs to be said.

Why do you need the average joes to fund your game if you could of approached a prospective publisher before hand and sold the the idea/concept of the game to them first and let them fork out the money to have the game made?

When big corporate companies take money from investors to invest into their company they dont do it in such a way that insults or shafts all those who gave them money. Why should crowdfunders be treated any differently?

if youre going to play your investors like that then nobody would want to invest. And since so many crowdfunders have been burnt in the last few years. Developers are going to start crying and blaming the consumers when they cant meet their crowdfunding target to get their game on the road or a finished and playable state.

 

[EntropyZ]

They're gambling and toying around and when they don't want to take responsibility they will shift the blame on something else to make the best situation for themselves. This kind of reminds me of something and sounds very familiar.

Honestly I was more than happy with average people making mods or total conversions.

This is what never came out though and I was really looking forward to it. MekTek seemed to know what they were doing and made a really awesome release of MechWarrior 4 Mercenaries with MekPak bundled on top of the free release when Microsoft was letting people download the game for free. Then they licenced the IP to the Smith & Tinker guys who are gone and Piranha picked up after them to start making MW5. MekTek went to make Heavy Gear Assault and that was the end of the MekPak mod support.

Directional jumpjets, free target reticle!? Cool equipment? And new chassis!? Holy.

Now the best you can get is the archive floating on the internet that has the stable final 3.1 release. Which sadly doesn't have all of the nice additions to an already amazing mod that they pulled off. Worst part of it is, the tools are nowhere to be found... So it's not like anyone can make anything for that game engine anymore.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

So how is this any different from all of the other threads about games that signed exclusivity contracts with Epic Games Store?

Piranha Games isn't FASA Interactive.

 

[EntropyZ]

Piranha Games isn't FASA Interactive.

You're right about that. They're not and they will never be as far as the current state of things is concerned. I actually struggle to comprehend what kind of studio FASA really was.

It's strange how instead Zipper Interactive did MechWarrior 3's development. They used the same engine from Recoil (1998). Probably because it was easier and they already had something that worked.

 

[Vayra86]

At this point I'm thinking consumer choice and/or right isn't in the best of their interests. Which is only enforces that companies look at us like we're just walking money bags straight out of Conkers Bad Fur Day.

In all seriousness, I think at some point people will get used to this and sub-consciously know this sort of behavior is the norm.

"Oh, we made an oopsie. Sowwy.", "Why does this "disgruntled" group of people think we're evil?", "We're totally going to fix this later".


Anyway, do they really believe they're going to bring in new blood that will take interest due to the game appearing on a relatively new and barebones storefront. BattleTech is old and wasn't all that accessible until MechAssault games came out.

I remember having trouble my first time playing MechWarrior 3 and 4. I would either stand like a turret or walk into enemy mechs and shoot them until I get nearly killed by splash damage. I had faint concept of how you can move the torso and steer at the same time while keeping the static target reticle on where you need to shoot, with MW3 it was a bit easier due to arms having actuators and a free reticle which I thought was really nice. The controls weren't exactly easy to master. (Yes I am a heathen who plays Mech games with a mouse and keyboard to this day , mostly in fear that any joystick I could get would break, because back in the day the cheap ones would get destroyed fairly quickly, the deadzone and sensitivity messes up. My dad glued several of them with hot glue for some reason) I think a Logitech Extreme 3D might have survived though.

My friend saw me play MW4:Mercs and said it was so awesome when we were wee lads, it had that C-Bill market and everything. But once he picked it up and tried the training mission, he didn't get past walking with the torso turned in the right direction and that was it.

I really wanted to pilot and look cool in a custom Bushwacker while partaking in a good fight. Guess that's not happening. Too bad the new one from MWO looks like it has a tumor on it. I think the old one from MW3 looked like it should.

What we are getting to deal with lately has everything to do with cycles in game popularity.

There is such a thing as a generational cycle of interest, for lack of a better term; we are all in the same age group (most of us) of late 20's early 30's or older and we have this truly annoying nostalgia we can fall back to. The 'it used to be better' idea, but then it really used to be better, simply because what we compare is an upcoming industry forging its way to mainstream, versus the industry being actually mainstream. Publishers are now actively trying to break the cycle, and feed the youngest generation with a single-minded idea of gaming: its a grind, its a store, and every tiny bit of content is money.

You can compare this with music festivals that start in obscurity and deliver some of life's greatest moments, versus those same festivals having gained popularity and with that, getting stuck in political correctness of the masses. Along with that, the whole charm and idea of the festival slowly but surely gets siphoned out. Often much faster than you'd think.

With gaming there is a high degree of diversity. Indie games, and mid sized studios are the ones we should be looking at. So yeah its extra sour to see even those studios make all the bad choices. But, on the other hand, we also see equally as many studios making the RIGHT choices. CDPR, Larian, Owlcat, Crate, even a bigger one like Deep Silver, I can name a whole bunch of them.

It is up to US, older gamers, to push those studios into the limelight, to promote and support their actions and their ways of doing business. Its our only chance. At the same time, yes, for sure, boycot that which doesn't suit your style of gaming and purchasing games. A lot has changed already - the diversity that is on offer is just an example; but we also successfully banned Pay to Win from most game devs' minds. The lootbox is next, and MTX is always regarded with distrust by many. Everyone? No - the battle is never over.

We have one powerful ally on our side: the actual quality content itself. Good games thrive on their own and regardless of marketing, and luckily most people do recognize what's good.

I'm glad this topic is not just another EGS rant by the way, kudos for that. EDIT: by the way, the sentiment I describe is exactly what's bothering Sweeney. Its not just money for him. It would have been ten times easier to sit on that Fortnite money and put it towards real estate or something.

 

[EntropyZ]

Yeah, it's nice when you find something to unwind with that actually seems worth the little time we have on this rock. But I'm worried about the things that I have established that I like already and want something similar based in the same on-going story made by whoever is managing the lore.

My worry, is that I will probably won't have a chance to experience what is close to what I expected from such a franchise that is kind of niche compared to others. But the world that has been built, I can truly get lost in it, and if you can put a good video game together using the foundation that is decades worth of work. It's gold to me.

 

[Vayra86]

Yeah, it's nice when you find something to unwind with that actually seems worth the little time we have on this rock. But I'm worried about the things that I have established that I like already and want something similar based in the same on-going story made by whoever is managing the lore.

My worry, is that I will probably won't have a chance to experience what is close to what I expected from such a franchise that is kind of niche compared to others.

I used to think Warhammer was niche and (grand) strategy was dying some years back. Childhood dream to see it combined in a game - then Total War Warhammer came out.

Worry not. If there is demand, there will be a sleeper hit at some point.

Another one; Baldur's Gate. Part 3 coming now, and there are damn solid Enhanced Editions for recent systems. And there is a newcomer doing the same formula quite well, Pathfinder. A few years ago, the Infinity-Engine-like RPG was nearly dead.


And by the way, you already have Battletech doing the trick quite well, just not realtime.

 

[EntropyZ]

I used to think Warhammer was niche and (grand) strategy was dying some years back. Childhood dream to see it combined in a game - then Total War Warhammer came out.

Worry not. If there is demand, there will be a sleeper hit at some point.

Another one; Baldur's Gate. Part 3 coming now, and there are damn solid Enhanced Editions for recent systems. And there is a newcomer doing the same formula quite well, Pathfinder.

You just reminded me that Warhammer 40K exists, the last good game I played was Soulstorm/Dark Crusade. Everything after that just couldn't impress. It seemed like it peaked there.

 

[Vayra86]

You just reminded me that Warhammer 40K exists, the last good game I played was Soulstorm. Everything after that just couldn't impress. It seemed like it peaked there.

Yeah I still fire it up occasionally DoW 3 was a massive letdown...

 

[EntropyZ]

I was slightly disappointed when I found out BattleTech was a top-down turn based game, But when I found out it was modifiable I jumped on buying it on Steam immediately. I prefer testing my reflexes and quick thinking in a real-time game, that's why I think even MechCommander Gold is still superior somehow! If you can get past the graphics and add more mechs and story, then it's still a good game. In fact I think someone on the forums had posted a link of a modded version.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Mechcommander Darkest Hours

MCG - Darkest Hours v4.0 - Standalone

MCG - Darkest Hours v4.0 - Standalone

www.hard-light.net

Absolutely check it out if you are a fan of the Battletech/MechWarrior/ Mechcommander universe.

On topic. I still play MWO (until last month or so) even did competitive play this past year and a halfish, I had the ultimate edition of MW5 pre-ordered it and have submitted my refund request.

They had advertised GOG/Steam and even a possible release on their own launcher (MWO portal) and took preorders for three days of overlap after completing the deal with Epic without a revised FAQ or any sort of notification. And as of this post they have not made any attempt to contact those who have pre-ordered to inform them of their change from steam and other platforms to an exclusive timed release with Epic. You have to give an email address when you preorder so they have the ability to notify but have not done so. I only found out through my unit's discord for MWO. If one does not check the MW5 website or find out from another outlet then it is likely that a chance to refund after their change in platform will be lost and will come as a total surprise when they receive a key that can only be redeemed on EGS when it was stated as a Steam key when they pre-ordered. Not very nice in my book.

Russ Bullock also stated in an AMA that their plan was to inform everyone at Gamescom (August 25ish) about the move to Epic exclusive. And if their FAQ is to be believed the refund process can take 10 days, and must be completed by September 1 which paints a picture of them hoping to not refund anyone if they could have kept it under wraps for long enough. The only reason the news broke was because someone accidentally updated the FAQ on the MW5 site early and people saw all mention of "Steam key" removed prompting questions to Russ on Twitter which he replied saying there was nothing to worry about, it was just an update for the launch of the new game website. Lies like these are the reason I do not want to support them, and it seems a number of other people feel the same. You can find sources for all of this easily enough by searching.

I understand their decision to get a large sum of money to go with EGS and receive a better cut although I don't agree with it. I am also not a massive fan of Steam and have most of my library through GOG but I do not use their client Galaxy. Their backup offline installers have allowed me to backup and actually 'own' the games I have bought without being dependent on the future of their companies or their servers or being online at all which is what I want.