What should be the DDR5 settings on the AMD B650E motherboard?

[Orodruin]

Hello everyone;

I have a 7900x3d processor, Asus ROG B650E-E motherboard and GSKILL EXPO NEO 6400MT/S CL32 2X24GB ram kit.

I usually use my computer in standard settings.
I only open EXPO.

What settings do you recommend I make especially for DDR5?
Which of the settings I shared below should be on or off?

CSM (Compatibility Support Module) Enable or Disable?
Fast Boot Enable or Disable?
Memory Context Restore Enable or Disable?
DRAM Power Down Mode Enable or Disable?
TSME and Data Scramble Settings Enable or Disable?

How should I configure these settings?
By the way, I am not interested in the OC process. I just activate the EXPO setting.

 

[GerKNG]

Disable
Enable
Enable
Auto
Auto

 

[AusWolf]

Disable
Enable
Enable
Auto
Auto

This. Except if MCR doesn't work (the system hangs up during boot). In that case, disable it.

Also, check your SoC voltage, make sure it's 1.3 V or lower on Auto. Trying 1.2 V couldn't hurt, either.

Also also, check if the memory controller runs in 1:1 mode. If it does, happy days. If it hangs up on boot, or isn't stable, 1:2 is fine.

 

[3DVCash]

This. Except if MCR doesn't work (the system hangs up during boot). In that case, disable it.

Also, check your SoC voltage, make sure it's 1.3 V or lower on Auto. Trying 1.2 V couldn't hurt, either.

Also also, check if the memory controller runs in 1:1 mode. If it does, happy days. If it hangs up on boot, or isn't stable, 1:2 is fine.

Yup, MCR and DRAM Power Down Mode generally don't play well together. I think Asus boards automatically disable it now when MCR is turned on, but not sure. I turn it off manually myself.

Also, since you're on an ASUS board, OP, make sure when enabling EXPO you try "EXPO Tweaked." It applies the standard RAM kit timings/voltage + optimized subtimings which can give big gains on AM5.

 

[Orodruin]

Disable
Enable
Enable
Auto
Auto

I'll set it up this way. Thank you very much.

This. Except if MCR doesn't work (the system hangs up during boot). In that case, disable it.

Also, check your SoC voltage, make sure it's 1.3 V or lower on Auto. Trying 1.2 V couldn't hurt, either.

Also also, check if the memory controller runs in 1:1 mode. If it does, happy days. If it hangs up on boot, or isn't stable, 1:2 is fine.

Where can I check if the memory controller is working in 1:1 mode?

My 6400MT/s CL32 RAMs work fine when I open EXPO. Since they are M-DIE Hynix type memory, they are 2x24gb.
Even the 8000MT/s RAM kit I use works fine on my motherboard. It is on the memory support list.

Yup, MCR and DRAM Power Down Mode generally don't play well together. I think Asus boards automatically disable it now when MCR is turned on, but not sure. I turn it off manually myself.

Also, since you're on an ASUS board, OP, make sure when enabling EXPO you try "EXPO Tweaked." It applies the standard RAM kit timings/voltage + optimized subtimings which can give big gains on AM5.

Should I turn off the MCR and DRAM Power Down Mode settings?

EXPO settings show EXPO I, EXPO II, and EXPO Tweaked.
Would it be enough to select EXPO Tweaked? Do I need to make any other settings after selecting it?

 

[Toothless]

I'll set it up this way. Thank you very much.



Where can I check if the memory controller is working in 1:1 mode?

My 6400MT/s CL32 RAMs work fine when I open EXPO. Since they are M-DIE Hynix type memory, they are 2x24gb.
Even the 8000MT/s RAM kit I use works fine on my motherboard. It is on the memory support list.


Should I turn off the MCR and DRAM Power Down Mode settings?

EXPO settings show EXPO I, EXPO II, and EXPO Tweaked.
Would it be enough to select EXPO Tweaked? Do I need to make any other settings after selecting it?

8000 isn't going to be playing nice with your FCLK. The reason people go with 6000 kits is because FCLK will almost always work at 2000. It's a 3:1 ratio that helps with latency. Speed isn't everything.

Make sure your MCLK is half your DRAM speed.

 

[AusWolf]

Where can I check if the memory controller is working in 1:1 mode?

You should see something like "UCLK DIV mode" or something similar. If UCLK=MCLK, it means the memory controller runs 1:1, if UCLK=MCLK/2, then it's half speed, or 1:2 relative to RAM.

Edit: The Zen 4 memory controller usually tops out at around 3000-3200 MHz - that is, 6000-6400 MHz RAM is usually fine 1:1, above that, only 1:2 works, except for some rare golden samples.

Should I turn off the MCR and DRAM Power Down Mode settings?

Only if they cause issues (for example, hangup during boot). These are features that are designed for the board to skip certain parts of the initial RAM training, but they don't always work well.

 

[Orodruin]

You should see something like "UCLK DIV mode" or something similar. If UCLK=MCLK, it means the memory controller runs 1:1, if UCLK=MCLK/2, then it's half speed, or 1:2 relative to RAM.

Edit: The Zen 4 memory controller usually tops out at around 3000-3200 MHz - that is, 6000-6400 MHz RAM is usually fine 1:1, above that, only 1:2 works, except for some rare golden samples.


Only if they cause issues (for example, hangup during boot). These are features that are designed for the board to skip certain parts of the initial RAM training, but they don't always work well.

I will check FCLK. I use it with 6400mt/s without any problems. There is no problem.
I just wanted to know if the settings I mentioned should be enabled / disabled.

Then I will set it as follows;
CSM DISABLE
FAST BOOT ENABLE
MEMORY CONTEXT RESTORE ENABLE
POWERDOWN MODE AUTO
TSME-DATA SCRAMBLE AUTO

8000 isn't going to be playing nice with your FCLK. The reason people go with 6000 kits is because FCLK will almost always work at 2000. It's a 3:1 ratio that helps with latency. Speed isn't everything.

Make sure your MCLK is half your DRAM speed.

Interestingly, Asus tested these memory on ROG B650E-E motherboard and published them on the QVL list.

The exact model of the 8000mhz Ram that Asus approved and recommended with the QVL list;
G.Skill 48GB(2x24) Trident Z5 RGB 8000mhz CL40 DDR5 Ram (F5-8000J4048F24GX2-TZ5RK)

I preferred the 6400mhz model of the same ram. Because I thought that the 8000MT/S RAM is processor could cause problems with the memory controller. That's why I bought this.
G.Skill 48GB(2x24) Trident Z5 RGB 6400mhz CL32 DDR5 Ram (F5-6400J3239F24GX2-TZ5RK)

 

[Sarajiel]

8000 isn't going to be playing nice with your FCLK. The reason people go with 6000 kits is because FCLK will almost always work at 2000. It's a 3:1 ratio that helps with latency.

Throwing around numbers without units is quite inaccurate and can be fairly confusing for people not familiar with the matter.

DDR5 at 8000MT/s runs at 4000MHz (MCLK). To be able to run 8000MT/s the unified memory controller of any Ryzen 7000 and 9000 CPUs runs at 2000 MHz (UCLK). That is also known as "2:1 mode". The maximum stock speed of the infinity fabric for these CPUs is 2000 MHz (FCLK). People usually express these ratios as 2:1:1.

DDR5 at 6000MT/s runs obviously at 3000MHz and requires the UCLK running at 3000MHz as well, which is usually called "1:1 mode". Since FCLK runs at 2000MHz here as well, the ratios are typically referred to as 3:2:3. AMD has supposedly optimized the buffers of the memory controller for the asynchronous ratio of 2:3 between FCLK and UCLK.

As you can see, both DDR5-8000 and DDR5-6000 use the same FCLK if the motherboard manufacturer uses the default values from AMD, and doesn't overclock anything. Many overclockers choose to manually run the FCLK at 2200MHz when going for 8000MT/s, because the benefit of the increased infinity fabric bandwidth usually outweighs the benefits of the lower latency when running FCLK and UCLK synchronized.

I will check FCLK. I use it with 6400mt/s without any problems. There is no problem.

Just post a ZenTimings screenshot to calm the nerves of the forum.
If you run DDR5-6400 in 2:1 mode, your performance would be basically be somewhere between DDR5-5200 and DDR5-5600. In that case, DDR5-8000 would be noticeably faster.

 

[DropToasterInTub]

8000 MT/s is pretty hard to get running on an ASUS 4 DIMM board. 6400 MT/s in 2:1 mode is quite bad for performance as well, far worse than 1:1 6000 MT/s even. Rule of thumb should be 1:1 at 6000-6400 OR 2:1 at 8000 MT/s.

You can find the setting for this under the Extreme Tweaker tab and going into the DRAM Timing Control submenu. UCLK=MEMCLK/1 is what you're looking for to run the IMC in 1:1. Best bet is to see if 6400 will even run in 1:1, and if not, reduce frequency until stable. I wouldn't recommend trying to get 8000 running due to the fact that it is very dependent on correct voltages to be completely stable, sometimes even drive strengths and impedances have to be adjusted. ASUS's QVL is a joke BTW, I doubt they're even testing for 24/7 stability with those kits because I can't fathom how they're getting it to run EXPO at 8000 MT/s while everyone else has a huge hassle with it even booting. ASUS boards are also the hardest of the 4 brands for memory OC besides the Gene, at least from other people's testimonies on forums like overclock.net.

FCLK should be the highest that's stable, or 2:3 if you're not able to go over 100 MHz beyond that clock speed as going beyond 100 MHz will alleviate the latency penalty associated with not keeping FCLK and MCLK 2:3, while giving better Infinity Fabric bandwidth. Not all Zen 4 CPUs can run 2200 FCLK; for instance, mine only does 2166 max, or else performance degrades in AIDA DRAM read/write bandwidth. You can also use Linpack to test for FCLK stability as your score will also drop with an unstable IF.

6000 MT/s - 2000 FCLK or 2100+
6200 MT/s - 2066 FCLK or 2166+
6400 MT/s - 2133 FCLK or 2200

 

[ir_cow]

CSM (Compatibility Support Module) Enable or Disable? -Auto or Enabled
Fast Boot Enable or Disable? - Auto or Enabled
Memory Context Restore Enable or Disable? -Disable
DRAM Power Down Mode Enable or Disable? - Disable
TSME and Data Scramble Settings Enable or Disable? -Auto

Really You can leave them all on Auto. MCR is the one that will most likely give you problems when enabled.

 

[R-T-B]

Yup, MCR and DRAM Power Down Mode generally don't play well together.

It's actually the opposite. MCR REQUIRES Ram Power Down to work well on AM5.

 

[Kapone33]

I'll set it up this way. Thank you very much.



Where can I check if the memory controller is working in 1:1 mode?

My 6400MT/s CL32 RAMs work fine when I open EXPO. Since they are M-DIE Hynix type memory, they are 2x24gb.
Even the 8000MT/s RAM kit I use works fine on my motherboard. It is on the memory support list.


Should I turn off the MCR and DRAM Power Down Mode settings?

EXPO settings show EXPO I, EXPO II, and EXPO Tweaked.
Would it be enough to select EXPO Tweaked? Do I need to make any other settings after selecting it?

HW info

 

[Zach_01]

Where can I check if the memory controller is working in 1:1 mode?

On ZenTimings the "Speed" should be 6400MT/s

And the memory sub-components should be:
MemoryClock (MCLK) 3200MHz
UnifiedMemoryControllerClock (UCLK) 3200MHz


InfinityFabricClock (FCLK) the highest the better
Somewhere between 2100-2200MHz



Same on HWiNFO64 sensors mode

 

[Orodruin]

I made the following settings from BIOS;
Activated the EXPO Tweaked option.
Enable off CSM (Compatibility Support Module) setting.
Enable off Fast Boot setting. Because it can sometimes cause errors at startup.
Set the Memory Context Restore setting to Enable.
Set the DRAM Power Down Mode setting to Enable.
Set the TSME and Data Scramble RAM data encryption settings to Disable. Because it can increase latency.

Apart from that, after activating the EXPO Tweaked setting, the RAM latency dropped from 75.2ns to 66.2ns. I think this setting automatically optimizes the sub-timings and reduces the latency values.

Everything is working very well for now.

@GerKNG
@AusWolf
@Toothless
@3DVCash
@Sarajiel
@DropToasterInTub
@ir_cow
@R-T-B
@kapone32
@Zach_01

 

[Toothless]

I made the following settings from BIOS;
Activated the EXPO Tweaked option.
Enable off CSM (Compatibility Support Module) setting.
Enable off Fast Boot setting. Because it can sometimes cause errors at startup.
Set the Memory Context Restore setting to Enable.
Set the DRAM Power Down Mode setting to Enable.
Set the TSME and Data Scramble RAM data encryption settings to Disable. Because it can increase latency.

View attachment 367079

View attachment 367080

Apart from that, after activating the EXPO Tweaked setting, the RAM latency dropped from 75.2ns to 66.2ns. I think this setting automatically optimizes the sub-timings and reduces the latency values.

Everything is working very well for now.

@GerKNG
@AusWolf
@Toothless
@3DVCash
@Sarajiel
@DropToasterInTub
@ir_cow
@R-T-B
@kapone32
@Zach_01

See if your FCLK can do 1/3 of your ram speed to zero in on that golden ratio.

 

[3DVCash]

Apart from that, after activating the EXPO Tweaked setting, the RAM latency dropped from 75.2ns to 66.2ns. I think this setting automatically optimizes the sub-timings and reduces the latency values.

Everything is working very well for now.

Yup! Tightening subtimings has a bigger effect than tweaking primaries or even boosting transfer speeds on AM5.
Congrats! Enjoy the new rig!

 

[Orodruin]

Yup! Tightening subtimings has a bigger effect than tweaking primaries or even boosting transfer speeds on AM5.
Congrats! Enjoy the new rig!

I think my RAMs got a little faster.
To be honest, I had never used the EXPO Tweaked setting until you told me. So thank you very much for your help.

See if your FCLK can do 1/3 of your ram speed to zero in on that golden ratio.

How exactly do I control it?
Honestly, I'm a bit out of my league when it comes to RAM settings.

 

[Zach_01]

How exactly do I control it?
Honestly, I'm a bit out of my league when it comes to RAM settings.

What @Toothless is saying is to adjust FCLK speed to the following ratio
MCLK:UCLK:FCLK = 3:3:2 = 3200:3200:2133

Thats FCLK at 1/3 of 6400MT/s
Allegedly this (3:3:2) is the best ratio for AM5

...but I would also try
3200:3200:2166
3200:3200:2200
...if I could get FCLK to be stable at those speeds and see if gaming FPS is improving.

Note:
When trying increasing FCLK speed above 2000 watch out for WHEA system errors.
Usually they come first before complete system instability, like crashes and restarts.

 

[Sarajiel]

Congratulations on a Ryzen that does DDR5-6400. Also, nice to see that the board didn't just sneak in the 2:1 mode.

Apart from that, after activating the EXPO Tweaked setting, the RAM latency dropped from 75.2ns to 66.2ns. I think this setting automatically optimizes the sub-timings and reduces the latency values.

It just changed the refresh interval (tREFI), which is the value with the single most performance gain.

All the other timings are either EXPO/XMP or JEDEC for this kit. I got the 96GB version of a similar G.Skill kit and these values look very familiar to me. That means you still have some headroom for manual tuning if you want to try it. However, unless you are really want to squeeze out the last frame for 240+ fps gaming or something similar, I wouldn't really bother except for lowering the tRFC, by setting it to half its current value. It's a quirk of JEDEC speed bins above 6400MT/s.

I haven't used an Asus AM5 for quite some while now, so I can't really walk you down to the exact menu where you have to make this and other changes, but the search function should reveal it, otherwise look for the AI tweaker section or whatever Asus calls it in your board's BIOS.

When trying increasing FCLK speed above 2000 watch out for WHEA system errors.

You typically don't get WHEAs with Ryzen 7000 on AM5 if the infinite fabric corrects errors via re-transmissions. You only start noticing those corrected errors once your performance starts tanking, any display connected to the iGPU starts flickering, or your audio cuts out/stutters while gaming or running CPU intensive workloads.

 

[Zach_01]

You typically don't get WHEAs with Ryzen 7000 on AM5 if the infinite fabric corrects errors via re-transmissions. You only start noticing those corrected errors once your performance starts tanking, any display connected to the iGPU starts flickering, or your audio cuts out/stutters while gaming or running CPU intensive workloads.

So those corrected errors are not shown/logged on Event Viewer?

 

[Sarajiel]

So those corrected errors are not shown/logged on Event Viewer?

Nope, and as far as I know there are no "hidden" BIOS options to enable that either. I've literally tested systems with settings that disintegrated the Windows installation, but didn't show any errors in HWinfo.
Unless you hook up an oscilloscope to your motherboard, there is no easy way to see the errors. From what I've seen on other forums, people usually test for them by running things like Linpack Xtreme 1.1.5 in stress test mode and listen to music while doing so. As long as the sound doesn't stutter and the performance counter between each run stays within a low margin, they assume it's fine.

 

[AusWolf]

What @Toothless is saying is to adjust FCLK speed to the following ratio
MCLK:UCLK:FCLK = 3:3:2 = 3200:3200:2133

Thats FCLK at 1/3 of 6400MT/s
Allegedly this (3:3:2) is the best ratio for AM5

...but I would also try
3200:3200:2166
3200:3200:2200
...if I could get FCLK to be stable at those speeds and see if gaming FPS is improving.

Note:
When trying increasing FCLK speed above 2000 watch out for WHEA system errors.
Usually they come first before complete system instability, like crashes and restarts.

It's not necessary, imo. At least I value stability over ultimate speed.

I would watch out for that SoC voltage, though. 1.28 V isn't terrible, but isn't great, either. Other than that, everything looks fine to me.

 

[VivaLuatioN]

Guess that is no harm to asking help from here

7800x3d processor, Asus ROG B650E-F motherboard and Kingston Fury Beast 2x16GB 6000hz (QVL List)

Have EXPO I, II & Tweaked

Which one should i go for it?

 

[AusWolf]

Guess that is no harm to asking help from here

7800x3d processor, Asus ROG B650E-F motherboard and Kingston Fury Beast 2x16GB 6000hz (QVL List)

Have EXPO I, II & Tweaked

Which one should i go for it?

EXPO 1 loads EXPO speeds and primary timings. EXPO 2 loads EXPO speeds, primary and secondary timings (this is what I'd choose personally), Tweaked is Asus's own tweaked settings. Take your pick.
Oh, and welcome to the forum.