Why does Microsoft want to use hardware that would be last-gen for their 2028 console?

[SJZL 2.0]

We have heard news of Microsoft's FTC leaks showing their vision for their next gen 2028 console using Zen 6 and RDNA 5. By 2028, this type of hardware would have already been 2/3 years old. This is different from the Xbox Series releases when Zen 2 was 1 year old and they were using the latest generation of graphics cards during 2020. Why do you think Microsoft would want to use hardware that would be last gen by release and why didn't they have this type of problem for the Xbox Series consoles?

 

[Vayra86]

They count on delays

 

[las]

Because thats what consoles almost always use -> A few generations old tech that is now cheap

Zen 2 was more like 1½ years old at the point of XSX and PS5 release

Consoles don't really need the best hardware, they just need good optimization and this is pretty easy when hardware is identical. Most users don't care as long as games run "fine"

 

[GerKNG]

the PS4 uses an AMD Jaguar Chip that was just a ~15% increase over bobcat... from 2007.

 

[chrcoluk]

Cost efficiency and yields probably.

 

[sLowEnd]

It’s cheaper to use slightly older stuff. Bugs are also better documented.

 

[SJZL 2.0]

Its nice to see all of these answers but none of this answers how Microsoft were able to use the latest generation of GPUs in their recent consoles.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Bugs are also better documented.

Of course $$$ is a key, if not the key factor. But I suspect it also has to do with the facts bugs have not just been documented, but worked out/patched/fixed.

Whether that strategy pays off or not depends on the competition, and what consumers do.

 

[sLowEnd]

Its nice to see all of these answers but none of this answers how Microsoft were able to use the latest generation of GPUs in their recent consoles.

They have the ability to switch specs very quickly if they wanted to. They have historically done so with the first Xbox, actually. It was supposed to use an AMD processor, but boom, last second switch to Intel.

Xbox creator apologizes to AMD over last-minute switch to Intel CPUs 20 years ago

Microsoft launched the original Xbox on November 15, 2001. While we're still one month away from the 20th anniversary, Seamus Blackley is using the occasion to apologize...

www.techspot.com

 

[SJZL 2.0]

They have the ability to switch specs very quickly if they wanted to. They have historically done so with the first Xbox, actually. It was supposed to use an AMD processor, but boom, last second switch to Intel.

Xbox creator apologizes to AMD over last-minute switch to Intel CPUs 20 years ago

Microsoft launched the original Xbox on November 15, 2001. While we're still one month away from the 20th anniversary, Seamus Blackley is using the occasion to apologize...

www.techspot.com

I mean, you are saying it as if it was a simple hack but there maybe wasn't so much work undone when they probably switched from RDNA to RDNA 2 in developing the GPUs of the 2 consoles. Hopefully Microsoft could consider switching from RDNA 5 to 6 if its necessary, 2028 is 5 years away so anything can change with how they specify their new console.

 

[N/A]

Because the gen is not that important only the node is. The target is to hit 30 FPS most of the time so anything would do the job even as low as Zen and rDNA 2. And frankly this is the issue. They say gameplay is important not the graphics so that we can create those wonderful nostalgic memories. Yeah but it has been a very nauseating experience for me so the PC is the way to go anyway. Consoles start development 3 years ahead so by the time it's ready it's outdated and remain for another 7 years.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

The last time we had consoles better than PCs was the 360 (at least the GPU), it seems MS and Sony don't want to have cutting edge hardware and lose lot of money.

Then the games aren't very impressive anymore, seems hardware is not utilised to improve things like better AI, more enemies, better physics, more players (a PS3 game had 256 players) better graphics (RT doesn't count it just destroys FPS), so the need for better hardware is not justified unless they aim for higher FPS.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Delays, cost, the fact that hardware is actually plenty good nowadays, etc.

With the Xbox Series X and the PS5, long gone are the days that game developers are meaningfully bound by the hardware, so more memory and processing power would primarily go to post-processing IMO.

Even if the next generation used, say, Zen 3, it would still be both behind PCs today and much faster than the consoles realistically need to be.

 

[Nordic]

In 2028 I might want a ham sandwich for lunch. Of course, I might change my mind.

 

[Bill_Bright]

The last time we had consoles better than PCs was...

...never!

With deep enough pockets, one could always build a better gaming PC.

 

[Dr. Dro]

...never!

With deep enough pockets, one could always build a better gaming PC.

There have been periods of time where this wasn't a feasible proposal, though. The "console-killer builds" that outperformed a PS4 Pro for the same price that were feasible before the current-gen consoles launched became very, very difficult to buy until recently.

This may be possible to do again now, though. AliExpress has been having some crazy deals, such as new, unused i9-11900KF CPUs for $180... possible to build very fast builds with hardware that is affordable and in plentiful supply if you import a few components from China.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I wouldn't pay to much attention to the hardware listed in that slide likely the majority are just place holders also there are multiple teams working on hardware and this was just one proposal. I would more look at what they are trying to accomplish with the hardware. Although Zen6 paired with RDNA5 which is two generations from now so likely 4 years out on the GPU side isn't unrealistic. It could also be RDNA5 based with some RDNA 6 features bolted on top. Even though console hardware is largely based on PC hardware now there are still some customizations there was nothing like the RDNA2 chip used in the series X for desktop for example.

Honestly I would be more worried about what them deciding between ARM and X64 which would likely mean all backwards compatibility would be through the cloud.

Here is the slide again I would pay more attention to the Graphics innovations they are shooting for which makes it sound more like an ADA GPU comically. I also wouldn't be surprised if the date was off and it launches in 2027

 

[SJZL 2.0]

I feel like we need to be a bit more on topic here and be careful to not cause a console vs PC war.

 

[Bill_Bright]

There have been periods of time where this wasn't a feasible proposal

Nope, sorry. Not true.

Feasibility is extremely subjective and totally relative to each individual, individually. Or rather, it is dependent on how deep each individual's pockets are.

That is, feasibility is totally dependent on the willingness of the individual to spend the necessary money and their ability to spend/borrow/steal that money.

The facts remain the same. There has NEVER been a time when a gaming PC could not be assembled that was not better than the latest consoles.

In fact, I would argue that gaming consoles became, and still are popular today for 2 main reasons. (1) More available games for the console than for a Windows system and most importantly, (2) consoles are more affordable.

This is not rocket science. >$600 will get you a top-of-the-line Xbox or PlayStation. $600 will get you a middle-of-the-road gaming graphics card only for your PC. You will still need a CPU, motherboard, RAM, drive, and a case to put them in.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Nope, sorry. Not true.

Feasibility is extremely subjective and totally relative to each individual, individually. Or rather, it is dependent on how deep each individual's pockets are.

That is, feasibility is totally dependent on the willingness of the individual to spend the necessary money and their ability to spend/borrow/steal that money.

The facts remain the same. There has NEVER been a time when a gaming PC could not be assembled that was not better than the latest consoles.

In fact, I would argue that gaming consoles became, and still are popular today for 2 main reasons. (1) More available games for the console than for a Windows system and most importantly, (2) consoles are more affordable.

This is not rocket science. >$600 will get you a top-of-the-line Xbox or PlayStation. $600 will get you a middle-of-the-road gaming graphics card only for your PC. You will still need a CPU, motherboard, RAM, drive, and a case to put them in.

You make good points but a lot of people don't have the money or know how, so they get sucked into the console ecosystem :/

 

[SJZL 2.0]

This is becoming like those console vs PC discussions from 2015, just know this could easily be locked by staff because of this topic & talking points I'm seeing.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

...never!

With deep enough pockets, one could always build a better gaming PC.

The Xenos was better than anything on PC till the 8800GTX came and crushed it.

 

[Frick]

This is becoming like those console vs PC discussions from 2015, just know this could easily be locked by staff because of this topic & talking points I'm seeing.

Which were the same as the discussions we had in 2001.

 

[las]

I like both PC and Console gaming. PC will always be the primary platform for me tho. Consoles are too limited with a locked down eco system, expensive games and paid multiplayer and cloud saves. Console gaming gets expensive really fast if you go all-in, yet cheaper to get into.

They lure you in, then hook you with monthly payments. That is how they make money, not on the hardware itself.

If you don't buy their premium subs and only buy games on sale it can be somewhat cheap tho. Remember USB save backup manually. You just never know with cheap hardware.

Its nice to see all of these answers but none of this answers how Microsoft were able to use the latest generation of GPUs in their recent consoles.

By paying more, just like Sony did with PS5. They did not really use latest generation however. Both are missing some RDNA2 features, PS5 lacks even more. It's more like RNDA1.25 or 1.5 for XSX maybe.

PS5 and XSX was like twice the price of PS4 and XB1 on release.

We will probably see PS5 Pro and XSX Refresh in 2024 (Mid-Gen).

A generation is ~8 years on average, with a refresh in the middle.

 

[AusWolf]

They count on delays

Probably this.

Also, "last gen" isn't really a bad thing these days. I mean, would you still game on a 12900K + 3090 Ti or 5800X3D + 6900 XT system? I would!