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Why does Microsoft want to use hardware that would be last-gen for their 2028 console?

Probably this.

Also, "last gen" isn't really a bad thing these days. I mean, would you still game on a 12900K + 3090 Ti or 5800X3D + 6900 XT system? I would!
In a way you can be 100% sure that's it. Not only that, but nobody is going to want to produce a console, mass market product, on a chip/node that is hard to source. Even apart from the end performance of RDNA5, 6 or even 7 at the time, you want a cheap node with maximum bang/buck.
 
In a way you can be 100% sure that's it. Not only that, but nobody is going to want to produce a console, mass market product, on a chip/node that is hard to source. Even apart from the end performance of RDNA5, 6 or even 7 at the time, you want a cheap node with maximum bang/buck.
Yep. Besides, the PS5 and Xbox Series X both use Zen 2 CPUs, which isn't exactly today's (or yesterday's) architecture. Whatever works works, doesn't matter when it was released.

The OP's question is kind of like a "why do cars have 4 wheels" kind of question. No offense. :)
 
We have heard news of Microsoft's FTC leaks showing their vision for their next gen 2028 console using Zen 6 and RDNA 5. By 2028, this type of hardware would have already been 2/3 years old. This is different from the Xbox Series releases when Zen 2 was 1 year old and they were using the latest generation of graphics cards during 2020. Why do you think Microsoft would want to use hardware that would be last gen by release and why didn't they have this type of problem for the Xbox Series consoles?
They want to sell and profit selling consoles so it needs to be a balance between manufacturing cost and the eye candy sales can pitch you into forking over a certain amount of cash per console.
 
Which were the same as the discussions we had in 2001.
This doesn't justify anything.

Console gaming gets expensive really fast if you go all-in, yet cheaper to get into.

They lure you in, then hook you with monthly payments. That is how they make money, not on the hardware itself.

If you don't buy their premium subs and only buy games on sale it can be somewhat cheap tho. Remember USB save backup manually. You just never know with cheap hardware.
I would hate to get involved in these types of discussions but its not like you would find any of these in a decentralized desktop platform right?
 
The Xenos was better than anything on PC till
LOL Yeah, right. The graphics processor alone does not determine or make the best gaming rig.

This is becoming like those console vs PC discussions from 2015
Which were the same as the discussions we had in 2001.
And many times since. And nothing has changed.

I say again,
...never!

With deep enough pockets, one could always build a better gaming PC.
I can only assume some don't understand (or simply refuse to accept :() the difference between the [very limited] offerings from factory computer builders and the [ almost limitless] options available to self/custom builders.

So I say one last time,
...never!

With deep enough pockets, one could always build a better gaming PC.
And still can.
 
And many times since. And nothing has changed.

You are just dismissing all the trends & changes to the community & technology as meaningless by restating, and claiming it as an eternal truth. None of this helps. This is just appeal to tradition.
 
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You are just dismissing all the trends & changes to the community & technology as meaningless by restating, and claiming it as an eternal truth. None of this helps. This is just appeal to tradition.
No I'm not. I am dismissing the nonsense and stating the facts. Are you seriously suggesting a $600 game console makes a superior gaming rig than a $2500 PC designed and built for gaming?

If so, then I am sorry but you just don't understand reality. Community? That is meaningless there. This is entirely about the technology.

Sure, there may be a game here or there, tweaked for a specific console that plays better on that specific console. But as a general rule, a properly configured $2500 PC computer designed for gaming is superior to a $600 game console.

Yes, $2500 is an arbitrary number. I could have used $1500 or $4000. Any of these most likely would have a graphics card that cost more than the entire game console.
 
No I'm not. I am dismissing the nonsense and stating the facts. Are you seriously suggesting a $600 game console makes a superior gaming rig than a $2500 PC designed and built for gaming?

If so, then I am sorry but you just don't understand reality. Community? That is meaningless there. This is entirely about the technology.
No, I am saying that you are dismissing how the technology evolved and compares. I also pinpointed these types of counterproductive discussions and you quoted them, these discussions involves the community here which also has notable differences from say 2015 to today.

For example, the trend of the "PC Master Race", a topic involving the community, has gone downhill since that time.
 
We have heard news of Microsoft's FTC leaks showing their vision for their next gen 2028 console using Zen 6 and RDNA 5. By 2028, this type of hardware would have already been 2/3 years old.
Two reasons. Planning must begin 3-5 years ahead. Secondly, it gets in Devs hands before mass production. If M$ tells Devs this is roughly what you will have to work with now, by 2028, games will be ready for the platform.
 
No, I am saying that you are dismissing how the technology evolved and compares.
No I am not.

Check the link in my sig. You will see my entire career involves and evolves around hardware technologies. What is counterproductive is you refusing to accept the reality that the technologies of the components used in PCs designed for gaming has, from the beginning through present times, out-performed and outpaced those used in game consoles.

This very thread is about how the latest game consoles use past generation components. If you believe that is a new practice, then you again refuse to accept reality.

I am also NOT dismissing the fact you have your mind set so it would be counterproductive to discuss this point further. So I'm done discussing this with you. Have a good day.

Two reasons. Planning must begin 3-5 years ahead. Secondly, it gets in Devs hands before mass production. If M$ tells Devs this is roughly what you will have to work with now, by 2028, games will be ready for the platform.
Excellent points and points that are closely tied to the fact that game consoles are essentially "fixed" and "proprietary" systems. That is, totally unlike self/custom built, ATX Form Factor compliant PCs, game consoles WILL BE configured the way the maker wants them and they CANNOT be upgraded. While the PC, on the other hand, offers nearly an unlimited number of options and configurations, and its components can be upgraded to provide years of evolutionary advancements.
 
Reasoning is probably reliability.They would already know ins and outs of a product so no surprises later on.
 
Which were the same as the discussions we had in 2001.
I haven't been around as long as many in this forum but the hardware enthusiast discussions are more or less the same since I joined TPU. It all comes and goes. It is cyclical. Nothing is original. The next generation comes and starts it again.
 
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subreddit
No need to insult us regulars in the process. This site is nothing like and miles ahead of and better than Reddit.
 
No need to insult us regulars in the process. This site is nothing like and miles ahead of and better than Reddit.

Subreddits =! Reddit.
 
So....after reading through all of this, I'm seeing one valid answer. Money.

Allow me to elaborate. The PS3 launched with the Cell processor. It was cutting edge, not x86, and it really made it difficult to program for. So:
1) The PS3 was a loss leader
2) Sony tried to make their money back by software sales
3) Software wasn't common, because it was difficult to realize success

Now, we have Nintendo. The relatively little company that could. They got burned on RDRAM with the N64, used proprietary discs for the Gamecube, and the Wii was built around the controller. They are always 2+ generations behind...but their software never goes in the bargain bin. They prioritize software over the hardware, make money day one, and don't spend nearly as much on technical issues...RROD anyone?


I am sure that MS is targeting stable and profitable hardware, hence aiming for relatively proven tech. When you combine that with the lag between consumer tech roll-out, MS's certification process, manufacturing time, developing a sufficient supply, and simple delays in the pipeline it's pretty unremarkable...and that's a good thing. I never want another PS3 mess.
 
Exactly my point. TPU is not Reddit, or a facsimile thereof.

We're getting off topic here, but Nordic said "subreddit" specifically, which is a different thing than Reddit as a whole. Reddit is in some ways just a very big forum, but the different subreddits are as different from each other than Xenforo based forums are different from each other.
 
@lilhasselhoffer The PS3 and Xbox 360 were the last fully custom chip consoles. After that both Sony and M$ used the same off the shelf APU hardware thereafter.
 
Reddit is in some ways just a very big forum, but the different subreddits are as different from each other than Xenforo based forums are different from each other.

I know what subreddit means. It is similar to saying TechPowerUp "Reviews". The Reviews "sub-section" is very different from the TechPowerUp "Forums", but still very much a part of TPU. Subreddit implies sub-sections of Reddit. But Reddit goes much further by having sub-sections, sub-forums or whatever you want to call them that have nothing to do with IS/IT. That's fine. But that does not make them experts at everything.

In fact, "Jack of all trades, master of none" may apply.

While strictly my own personal opinion, I consider TPU, and specifically, the skill-levels of those giving advice and answering questions here at TPU, as well as the answers provided, to be at a much higher level than those over there. IMO, there are many true "masters" of IS/IT here at TPU - notwithstanding the fact IS/IT is industries within industries.

So, was I being a bit snobbish with my comment? Perhaps. But I still believe, in general and for the most part, those giving advice and answering questions here at TPU have a significantly higher level of expertise, experience, and professionalism than those over there.

Beyond that, you are right and this is WAY OT. So 'nuff said on that.
 
No need to insult us regulars in the process. This site is nothing like and miles ahead of and better than Reddit.
Subreddits =! Reddit.
Exactly my point. TPU is not Reddit, or a facsimile thereof.
I know what subreddit means. It is similar to saying TechPowerUp "Reviews". The Reviews "sub-section" is very different from the TechPowerUp "Forums", but still very much a part of TPU. Subreddit implies sub-sections of Reddit. But Reddit goes much further by having sub-sections, sub-forums or whatever you want to call them that have nothing to do with IS/IT. That's fine. But that does not make them experts at everything.

In fact, "Jack of all trades, master of none" may apply.

While strictly my own personal opinion, I consider TPU, and specifically, the skill-levels of those giving advice and answering questions here at TPU, as well as the answers provided, to be at a much higher level than those over there. IMO, there are many true "masters" of IS/IT here at TPU - notwithstanding the fact IS/IT is industries within industries.

So, was I being a bit snobbish with my comment? Perhaps. But I still believe, in general and for the most part, those giving advice and answering questions here at TPU have a significantly higher level of expertise, experience, and professionalism than those over there.

Beyond that, you are right and this is WAY OT. So 'nuff said on that.
It appears I specifically said subreddit but that was an unfortunate typo. Also yes, I come here for my tech enthusiast needs. Reddit doesn't have an equivalent quality or better subreddit.
 
@lilhasselhoffer The PS3 and Xbox 360 were the last fully custom chip consoles. After that both Sony and M$ used the same off the shelf APU hardware thereafter.

I...don't think that what you are telling me matters? I chose the PS3 for that exact reason.

To the other side, you aren't quite correct. The APUs that are currently in use are custom implementations of consumer grade chip technology. They still have to design things like what their BGA package has where, how much (think cache) of critical components each has, and most frustratingly things like custom memory access. If you've got any trust in Reddit, then Reddit - PS5 memory. The gist of the discussion is that Sony designed and sold a special bit of hardware that was supposed to make memory access orders of magnitude faster...and I don't really know if it's realistically noticeable.

What is noticeable is that if you can desolder a PS4 or XBOX X CPU and replace it with any consumer available (presumably by laptop scavenging?) chip then I'll gladly admit error. To my knowledge they are not using custom chips...but that doesn't mean they don't have customer implementation and layouts which all require design work.
 
@lilhasselhoffer they aren't using inhouse developed systems anymore. Ever look into Sega Saturn cluster f$7$ of a system for devs?

Now all you need is a UE game engine to get things going on consoles. Thanks to DX12 and standard hardware.
 
(1) More available games for the console than for a Windows system and most importantly
When was that the case? Unless you are ignoring all the games that are on PC only, the unlimited backwards compatibility on PC and the fact that you'd have to own all the consoles in a gen to get even close to the variety of the PC library.
 
@lilhasselhoffer they aren't using inhouse developed systems anymore. Ever look into Sega Saturn cluster f$7$ of a system for devs?

Now all you need is a UE game engine to get things going on consoles. Thanks to DX12 and standard hardware.

? Do you have a point. I'm trying here, but I cannot see it. I said the PS3 was a pain to develop for...and you want to confirm that (to make development and software easier) they now use x86-64 based systems (which is agnostic of hardware, and is instead just an instruction set)?


I'm not seeing your point. You seem to be debating the point, but in agreement. Can you help me understand here?
Maybe you want to state something about UE and other PC based systems are mature enough that it'd no longer viable to develop your own unique hardware and instruction sets?

Heck the OG XBOX could pull the Intel switch because it was a box for DirectX content...and thus just a computer. There's a reason those suckers were modded to run as a computer so fast it was silly...and a reason that despite being older tech they were still exceptionally cheap computers and thus saw some use as replacements for the standard white box business offerings.

When was that the case? Unless you are ignoring all the games that are on PC only, the unlimited backwards compatibility on PC and the fact that you'd have to own all the consoles in a gen to get even close to the variety of the PC library.

I have an answer for you...and it's a very narrow interpretation of reality. It's projecting what people observe as reality...while pretending that reality is defined by perception rather than fact.

If you walk into a Game Stop, there are hundreds of games. You have them lined up in boxes, and thus the belief is that there's a bunch of games for systems. Cool. If you're old enough you remember that this used to happen for PC games too...but Valve won. Their introduction of Steam completely obliterated the used games option, by linking a game to an account rather than to actual media.

If you then forget that Origin, Steam, Uplay, GOG, and a bunch of other stuff exists then it's really easy to see that the PC has nowhere near as many games....because your local Walmart has a collection of the 5 biggest titles and shovelware in a 15' section of one aisle, versus hundreds of games in 50' of three aisles for the consoles. That of course is a joke when the Steam library alone is so huge that if you removed 80% of it (because so much is garbage) you'd still make the console market the joke it is.


Add to that narrow view the focus on single generations, and the constant relaunch of the same games with a new year's sticker on them, and it seems like consoles always have something new. I mean, it's not like your average 10+ year old PC game is still playable...right? Heck, it's not like DOS box exists specifically to be able to play ancient games....let alone remasters or things like Chocolate Doom to literally allow toasters to play games that are 20+ years old, while Nintendo consider it insane to rerelease 10 year old games on their virtual consoles while striking at any attempts to preserve old games.


Side note, have you checked out your "new releases" tab on the Steam store. It's...a lot...or trash. That said, if I were to proportionately balance the Wii's shovelware against the PC it'd probably be in about the same range.
 
Which were the same as the discussions we had in 2001.
you want a console discussion, in 5yrs I will be watching pron on my new ps6, today. Today I watch pron on my ps5.

In 10yrs I will be watching "movies" on my ps7. In 20yrs, I will be watching pron on a ps8 attached to a robot.
Nothing changes much from 10yrs ago to 20yrs into the future.
 
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