Why no one has the right to be angry at AMD with regards to AM4

[ratirt]

AMD was forced in to their decision because they straight up have zero ability to encourage anything different, being literally 45 times smaller than Asus in example, forget about Intel.

I think, AMD was forced to make a decision quick and pick the best option there was. I think AMD did right and stayed aside to figure out strategy. It payed off if you look at all the products they have now. I'm sure AMD picked the best option there was.

 

[silentbogo]

AMD was forced in to their decision because they straight up have zero ability to encourage anything different, being literally 45 times smaller than Asus in example, forget about Intel.

AMD as an underdog is an old beat-up argument. It's a big-ass multi-billion dollar corporation which has been around for over 50 years. Most of their recent mishaps boil down to mismanagement or misadvertising. Don't get me wrong - they are still doing a great job in terms of hardware, but whenever something goes wrong in other areas - they seem to be unable to get their shit together.

 

[ratirt]

No, that's not what I said. I made a passing remark questioning the necessity of all...this. Is this philosophy supposed to have some sort of impact on the masses, to bring about some sort of change in the groups of people that OP blames for the entire current state of the market?

And did I miss a seminar on new trigger words where they added "defend" to the list? Did he not seek to provide a reason for AMD's actions, albeit in a roundabout way? Did I ever accuse him of being a fanboy?

Yikes, can't even get a word in anymore without getting jumped on.

You said that he is defending AMD didn't you? Where is that lead? It was an example. It is not about if you called him a fanboy or not. You still didn't get it but instead you fight back with "i didnt say that" etc. He is not blaming anyone for the current state of the market.
Nobody jumps on you nor anything. If someone disagrees or you don't seem to understand a person's perspective it is so common people say "jumped on" "put words in my mouth" "accusations". it is really crappy. You didnt get what he was trying to say and that is all in that matter.

AMD as an underdog is an old beat-up argument. It's a big-ass multi-billion dollar corporation which has been around for over 50 years. Most of their recent mishaps boil down to mismanagement or misadvertising. Don't get me wrong - they are still doing a great job in terms of hardware, but whenever something goes wrong in other areas - they seem to be unable to get their shit together.

Yeah I agree with that. The underdog is an overstatement. You get a 10 mil company and people see it as a big one and then you have 1b company and it becomes an underdog because it competes with 100b company. AMD is doing fine and they are doing great work with their CPUs products. If someone considered AMD a black sheep in the CPU business would have been much closer to the truth than an "underdog" that's for sure.

 

[the54thvoid]

I want to step in over all this chat and offer this:

AMD said they would suport socket AM4 through Zen (pretty much). And they are doing that. Clap, clap, clap, well done AMD.

BUT (and I don't like big buts, sorry, sir Mixalot), the implication of that (to the layperson) is that any socket AM4 mobo (built to a specified power delivery) should support future AM4 CPU's. That's why I bought the most expensivce AM4 mobo from Asus at the time - for long term AM4 compatibility.

Contrast with Intel - new CPU, new socket (or enough of a revision to change mobo). AMD played their PR against that.

If you say you will support AM4, it implies it's compatible with all those AM4 CPU's. Otherwise, AMD should have called it AM4, AM4.1, AM4.2 etc - to inform us the actual compatibility would diminish. It's disingenuous to say AM4 and not have it support an AM4 CPU.

That's why folk are peeved. (I'm peeved, not pissed).

 

[dyonoctis]

Intel on the otherhand puts tons of their chips on all their motherboards. They are obsessed with preventing upgrades, they want to force people to do a rebuild (replacing the motherboard to upgrade a CPU is a rebuild, not an upgrade). WIFI, Nics, audio, just look at all those branded Intel chips on there.

Yes, AMD has done a few foolish things and I agree, blindly worshiping any company is just dumb. As I said earlier though the nature of the universe does not care about appeal the modestly or equality.

Now in a few years from now if AMD had AMD branded chips all over their motherboards I'd be the first to call them out on it. In fact I've never encountered anyone else who actually pointed out all those Intel branded chips on Intel motherboards and it's overwhelmingly blatant - you just have to look objectively.

Just a FYI, those intel chips are also used on AMD motherboard. every single wifi 6 x570 motherboard is using an Intel chip, and most 1Gb rj45 are from Intel, and they seem to be the best option out there. Intel is more than just a cpu maker, they have business in memory and networking.

AMD is just too small right now to expand beyond cpu/gpu/compute. (They did had amd radeon branded memory at some point, but it was nothing more than a sticker.)

That subject was already turn in everyway possible, but humans being humans, we can't just agree on a common outcome.
Some are saying it's greed, since the chipset business seems to be so profitable (?).
Other are saying that they want to avoid the mess of having to deal with all the people buying 400 series Motherboard but not having a compatible cpu on hands, and avoid the zen 2 buggy launch.
Other want AMD to just suck it up, and support zen 3 no matter how bad the earlier uefi might be.
Other pointed out how confused some people might be about the selective compatibility. What are you going to tell to early buyers of msi 400 boards ?

The only thing that we can say for sure is that AMD marketing was too optimistic, and should have been more cautious. People would have been happy with a 2019 estimate, instead of that 2020*
*But subject to roadmap change.

 

[arbiter]

Lets be real this is an AMD screw up, before releasing 400 series boards and even 300 series boards they would seen bios storeage limits would be coming in to play very soon. They could told board partners to put a bigger chip to support larger bios or do 2 seperate bios as said in video. One bios for 1000-3000 series parts then one for 3000-4000 parts. There is no way they didn't see this coming with 3000 series launch AT LEAST.

Anyone tries to spin it on to intel, Intel been doing it for many years so its EXPECTED to happen. My guess is AMD said some point support would be there but they randomly had to back track now and MSI did kinda step out on the limb with that advert.

 

[ratirt]

I want to step in over all this chat and offer this:

AMD said they would suport socket AM4 through Zen (pretty much). And they are doing that. Clap, clap, clap, well done AMD.

BUT (and I don't like big buts, sorry, sir Mixalot), the implication of that (to the layperson) is that any socket AM4 mobo (built to a specified power delivery) should support future AM4 CPU's. That's why I bought the most expensivce AM4 mobo from Asus at the time - for long term AM4 compatibility.

Contrast with Intel - new CPU, new socket (or enough of a revision to change mobo). AMD played their PR against that.

If you say you will support AM4, it implies it's compatible with all those AM4 CPU's. Otherwise, AMD should have called it AM4, AM4.1, AM4.2 etc - to inform us the actual compatibility would diminish. It's disingenuous to say AM4 and not have it support an AM4 CPU.

That's why folk are peeved. (I'm peeved, not pissed).

I don't think AMD said, that the AM4 socket will support all new processors in generations to come. They have said AM4 will support new processors for about 3-4 years as I recall and it did. It was to counter the tech society starting to be fed-up with Intel's idea, new CPU (sometimes a refresh) new mobo. That is exactly what @JAB Creations mentioned about people blaming a company for their own decisions.
It is not small, they evaluate the opportunities and how much profit they will get out of this. I don't get why people think a company like AMD is considered incapable of making right decisions? It is not an underdog and I think it is pretty clear. If they dropped a project, that would mean they didn't see profit in that or wanted to focus on something more stable and with more perspective for the future.
With the 400 series boards. What's the problem with that? new processors require Bios update. You can't release a new CPU that will work on an older board without any Bios update. Besides, this is not and AMD to blame but board vendors since they haven't thought this through? I've got an x470 board with 2700x CPU and it is all good so I'm not sure what you are after. Or maybe i misunderstood what you were trying to say. Clue me in if you'd like.

Lets be real this is an AMD screw up, before releasing 400 series boards and even 300 series boards they would seen bios storeage limits would be coming in to play very soon. They could told board partners to put a bigger chip to support larger bios or do 2 seperate bios as said in video. One bios for 1000-3000 series parts then one for 3000-4000 parts. There is no way they didn't see this coming with 3000 series launch AT LEAST.

They meaning who? AMD? They produce CPUs with specs for the vendors. if the MOBO vendors don't equip the boards with libraries for the future processors upon release, or they don't have space for doing so, because they didn't think about it or didn't wanted too, how is that AMD's fault? Isn't it obvious that the processor range of products is growing with every gen which is supporting the same socket and vendors should have known about it? I think they did know very well.

 

[Flanker]

Some are saying it's greed, since the chipset business seems to be so profitable (?).

I'm wondering about this too. How much do they actually get from these chipsets?

 

[dyonoctis]

Lets be real this is an AMD screw up, before releasing 400 series boards and even 300 series boards they would seen bios storeage limits would be coming in to play very soon. They could told board partners to put a bigger chip to support larger bios or do 2 seperate bios as said in video. One bios for 1000-3000 series parts then one for 3000-4000 parts. There is no way they didn't see this coming with 3000 series launch AT LEAST.

Anyone tries to spin it on to intel, Intel been doing it for many years so its EXPECTED to happen. My guess is AMD said some point support would be there but they randomly had to back track now and MSI did kinda step out on the limb with that advert.

Another hypothesis was that when AMD worked on Ryzen, they weren't in a position to make any kind of premium demands. They were this close to go bankrupt, Bulldozer was awfull, and nobody thought that ryzen was going to be as good as it is now.

 

[HTC]

Question: how many TPUers are using unsupported CPUs due to lack of chipset support with their B350 / X370 boards, and even A320 boards?

I ask because, according to this:

None of those board's chipsets support Ryzen 3000 series CPUs without Radeon Graphics.

Also: notice the date on that slide: May 7th 2020 ...

 

[the54thvoid]

Question: how many TPUers are using unsupported CPUs due to lack of chipset support with their B350 / X370 boards, and even A320 boards?

I ask because, according to this:

None of those board's chipsets support Ryzen 3000 series CPUs without Radeon Graphics.

Also: notice the date on that slide: May 7th 2020 ...

Yeah, good point. My Asus CH6 X370 supports my 3700X.

 

[HTC]

Yeah, good point. My Asus CH6 X370 supports my 3700X.

In page two of this topic alone, besides you, there's @dyonoctis : both of you MUST be lying because AMD's slide i posted clearly states those CPUs are NOT supported ...

Dunno what your agenda is for spreading this false information so please kindly fill in your systems specs with supported hardware only ...

J/K ...

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's an interesting rant, and that's about it.

I agree. With a lot of bias along with some misinformation thrown in.

So speaking of rants, here's mine.

AMD continued to lose market share when companies like Dell agreed to only sell Intel products.

That never happened! For one, this goes back to 2006 and before, not 2016 and what happened is Intel offered significant incentives in the form of discounts and rebates the more Dell (and HP and IBM among others) used Intel processors. Very much in the same way Taco Bell and KFC mostly or even exclusively sells Pepsi products while Coke dominates at McDonalds and Subway. Dell NEVER agreed to sell only Intels and never did sell only Intels. While Intels clearly led the marketshare that was also driven greatly by consumer demand - buyers of prebuilt computers wanted "Intel Inside".

AMD was forced in to their decision because they straight up have zero ability to encourage anything different, being literally 45 times smaller than Asus in example, forget about Intel.

That's bullsh!t! As silentbogo said,

AMD as an underdog is an old beat-up argument. It's a big-ass multi-billion dollar corporation which has been around for over 50 years.

Talk about total knobs and incapable of critical thinking? Where's yours here, JAB C? And where's your homework?

45 times smaller than ASUS? Bullsh!t! Sorry, but that just demonstrates a total knob understanding of the market. I don't know where you pulled that 45 out of but it is clearly, and grossly wrong. Are you suggesting the price per share reflects the net worth of a company? If so, !!! Are you familiar with Bing Google?

ASUSTek market cap = $5.14B USD (153.75B TWD @ 1 USD = 29.94 TWD )
AMD market cap = $63.84B USD

And what do you think drives Intel to continue to innovate and pour $billions into R&D? Its clearly due to AMD constantly nipping at the heels of Intel with their own innovations, keeping the fires of fear burning in Intel that AMD might leapfrog over them - again.

Oh, and speaking of 2016 to present, see https://www.cpubenchmark.net/market_share.html

"Total knobs who only care about FPS and are incapable of critical thinking blindly bought Intel."

You're not a professional anything unless you're getting paid.

Bullsh!t!!!! So all of us in this forum who have worked years and even decades working professionally in various fields within IT are not professionals after all? I might suggest you look up the definition of "volunteer" and "charity work". It might give you a better attitude towards others and even help with your critical thinking skills before going off on any more rants.

I ... am willing to criticize any business of any industry when it's appropriate.

And apparently when inappropriate too.

For the record, I have the Right to be angry at any company I want - as long as my reason for being angry is a valid one. And that may be just because I like blue better than red, although green is my favorite, by far. But should I decide to criticize them, then it should be, first and foremost, factual and for something objective, not subjective.

 

[Flaky]

I'm wondering about this too. How much do they actually get from these chipsets?

Probably not much, otherwise we'd see at least some chipsetless AM4 boards in retail, with I/O barely better than what AM1 platform provided.

 

[londiste]

Question: how many TPUers are using unsupported CPUs due to lack of chipset support with their B350 / X370 boards, and even A320 boards?

This slide is different from the one back then. 300-series chipsets were marked as optionally supported on Ryzen 3000 launch slides. Basically that AMD provides the code/AGESA and it is up to manufacturer if they want to implement it. The current slide is in decidedly different language.

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

AMD is not your friend

This is the exact argument that should have stopped you from making this post.

 

[HTC]

This slide is different from the one back then. 300-series chipsets were marked as optionally supported on Ryzen 3000 launch slides. Basically that AMD provides the code/AGESA and it is up to manufacturer if they want to implement it. The current slide is in decidedly different language.

That's not the point: the point is that this AMD May 2020 slide says Ryzen 3000 series without Radeon Graphics are NOT supported by X370 / B350 / A320's chipset, even though there are a lot of people using said CPUs with boards using the chipset present in these boards, this very topic included.

 

[TheLostSwede]

No need to argue semantics here. AMD will NOT allow for Ryzen 4000 CPU support on any chipset older than the X570. I don't know about the APUs, but I've had this confirmed by friends that work for the motherboard makers.
This means there won't be support in the AGESA for a Ryzen 4000 CPU running on an X470 board for example.
AMD has for whatever reason made this decision and without AGESA support, there's nothing the board makers can do.
The only way to change this, might be to petition AMD to change their mind.

As far as Ryzen 3000 on 300-series chipsets goes, there's no lockout in the AGESA, so the board makers can implement this if they want to.

 

[ratirt]

No need to argue semantics here. AMD will NOT allow for Ryzen 4000 CPU support on any chipset older than the X570.

AMD never promised that so if it doesn't support like you say, is that really a problem? It's been 3 years already of the AM4 being backwards compatible. I know, if they find a way, people will complain about problems, issues and God knows what. Blaming AMD for it. It's just not fair. AND some people say Intel is better becase it makes new gen (pff new ?) gets a new chipset and that is at least fair? C'mon.
Im sceptic about it now. Maybe AGESA will have that (btw that is cool) and have it on older platforms is an overstrech. AMD kept it's promise new chipset is coming I hope. New chipset new possibilities.
At least, i think that is for the best.

 

[TheLostSwede]

AMD never promised that so if it doesn't support like you say, is that really a problem? It's been 3 years already of the AM4 being backwards compatible. I know, if they find a way, people will complain about problems, issues and God knows what. Blaming AMD for it. It's just not fair. AND some people say Intel is better becase it makes new gen (pff new ?) gets a new chipset and that is at least fair? C'mon.
Im sceptic about it now. Maybe AGESA will have that (btw that is cool) and have it on older platforms is an overstrech. AMD kept it's promise new chipset is coming I hope. New chipset new possibilities.
At least, i think that is for the best.

From what I have been told, there won't be any new DDR4 compatible premium chipsets from AMD. I.e. there is no X670. That doesn't mean there won't be new chipsets made by their partners, such at B550, so maybe we get a B650 in the future.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Secret is ,I am always angry.


After realising my crosshair hero seven has a 256Mb ROM I await the greatness that might be Ryzen 4 with no baited breath at all, but they're better be something un doable on x470.

Well looks like this rigs getting a few years in after all.

To be honest I think mattise 2 is the lineup for year's end now with zen 3 coming in 2021 with new motherboards etc.

Perhaps the Rona is doing damage to timetables.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Secret is ,I am always angry.


After realising my crosshair hero seven has a 256Mb ROM I await the greatness that might be Ryzen 4 with no baited breath at all, but they're better be something un doable on x470.

Well looks like this rigs getting a few years in after all.

To be honest I think mattise 2 is the lineup for year's end now with zen 3 coming in 2021 with new motherboards etc.

Perhaps the Rona is doing damage to timetables.

You won't have to wait that long for Matisse 2, it's June/July...
Not sure what it'll bring though.

 

[Decryptor009]

The only issue i have is that they mentioned they would support these processor on older revision boards, if they had not, nobody would be entitled to have a go, but for that reason, they made the rod for their own back.

 

[ChristTheGreat]

Actually, AM4 has 4 gen CPU supported right now.

Bristol (Well, all serie in the A**)
Summit (Ryzen 1000)
Pinacle (ryzen 2000 and variant iGPU)
Matisse (Ryzen 3000 and Variant iGPU)

Still, 4 gen CPU on AM4, which is not bad at all.

I would say we have to wait, maybe there is a reason why the 4000 wouldn't be compatible?

 

[Deleted member 67555]

I bought a 2600x with an ASRock Pro 4 ATX about 10 days before we found out b450's won't support AMD 4000 series cpu's back when MSI was still telling us that a b450 was going to work.
AMD never clarified at that point and they should have.
I'm not mad about it. The 2660x on this b450 performs fantastically and I'm happy I bought it.
However....
I went out and bought a x570 so I could still have an upgrade path.
If I hadn't been able to do that...I still wouldn't be mad