Windows indexing: best to disable?

[caroline!]

The Tomb Raider game issue could've been related to the ridiculous DRM malware it's packed with, those tend to create weird errors and glitches most of the times if you dare mess with Windows settings or mod it in some way, sometimes you can't even start some games if you don't have an internet connection, that'd be the improved version of having the game disc on the drive at all times while you were playing.

But anyway, I said it could've been related to that because of the date, the thread is from 2016 and Crapuvo wasn't removed disabled until 2021 for that particular game, that thing can't be fully removed as it'd break important parts of the games, so what crackers often do is bypass it so the game file still works without having to call the DRM to start.

I've played that game, with the WS service disabled, and had no issues, but also had a dormant DRM. It's not a problem caused by indexing.

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

I disable this and use Total Commander for search anyways

 

[oobymach]

That is not a problem with the game. I have had no such issues with my copy of it. Whatever that problem is, it is a glitch in another part of Windows, which is hardly surprising. Additionally, that is a VERY isolated issue and does not effect all users of that game nor any other game. Either way, such a limited problem should not be used as a fear-factor to influence a configuration choice.

Doesn't make any sense that indexing would affect game saves.

The information from your link is pointing more in the direction that it's a read/write permission issue. Which come down to poor game programming & wouldn't be the first time.
Also notice the date of the post. It was days before the official release of the game, so it's more likely a pre-release bug which most likely got fixed years ago by now.

It could be that I was using an older version of windows 10 because for a long while I was unable to update win 10 to the new version, I have that fixed now but the issue only came up because I had disabled indexing. Also the game was probably brand new just out of beta (I sometimes jump on early releases) so it could have been a bug. I don't generally turn write permission settings off and in tracking down the problem it's one of the fixes I tried that didn't work. It's a lesson learned, now I just leave indexing on auto.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It could be that I was using an older version of windows 10 because for a long while I was unable to update win 10 to the new version

That could have been it.

I have that fixed now but the issue only came up because I had disabled indexing.

There have been a number of very weird Windows glitches over the years. Never heard of this one, but it seems like it fits into that category. The indexing service really shouldn't have any effect on game save functionality. Very weird indeed.

 

[Minxie]

Welcome to the internet.

I disable indexer because I literally don't need it so I automatically hate Windows as an OS.

I use Arch btw, but that doesn't means I "hate" Windows... it's just an OS, I'm not dumb enough to be a linux stainless steel fangrill that hates on Window$ because of the search function or the crippled CLI it comes with. I exclusively use 10 LTSC to run games because Arch isn't able to.

I love forums like these - your post, and @eidairaman1 saying I'm a "paid shill by MS"? You know, you gotta love the shill argument that pops up every time someone has no counter-argument to what you're saying. I wish I'd have been a paid shill. I'd have been on a tropical island instead of wasting my time here. Anyway...

Never did I say, or at least meant to say that if you disabled indexing since you don't need it, you dislike Windows as a whole. I was talking about the anti-MS and Windows mentality of these forums, while sometimes justified, it's mostly biased or at the very least, uninformed. I was also talking solely about myself disagreeing about XP's search being better. I clarified that I also have criticism towards Windows 11 (such as being released way too early and having some removed functionality - that they're adding back but should've never been taken out) because praising it here in any shape or form will get the cynics onto you.

I understand why these cynics exist though, Microsoft's community managers literally ask you, as an insider, to be as cruel with them as possible in the feedback for both Windows and Edge. You should've seen my feedback history for the past 8 years - it isn't pretty, but it was effective. The difference between my feedback and their forum posts though, is that I've educated myself on what I'm reporting and while I had harsh undertones in my feedback, I kept polite about it. And that has proven effective every time and has actually brought about change.

Apologies if I haven't worded myself properly and have been misunderstood, I admittedly haven't been in the best of moods at the time - but I'm not craving an OS conflict as I really don't care what you use to interface yourself with your hardware, be it Linux, macOS, Windows, or hell even TempleOS. I'm simply asking for common sense instead of misinformation which is abundant in these places. Indexing does not affect anything and I recommend the OP leaves it on - that's all I have to say on the matter. If you personally feel it isn't effective or you don't need it, that's valid too and you can disable it if you so choose.

Minxie if we dont use indexing it doesnt mean we hate Windows.

Again, that's not what I meant. Read what I said to caroline above. My point about the MS & Windows hate is completely and utterly unrelated and disconnected to my opinions on you using the Indexer or not, and that point stems from my exhaustion of seeing all the same uninformed posts on every MS or Windows related thread I check out here. Everyone has a love hate relationship with Windows, myself included, I recognize that. It's fine to bash on it for valid reasons. But like it or not, these forums don't usually have those reasons and don't educate themselves, leading to unjustified bandwagons of cynicism.

come on, not everyone buys samsung high end, wd black ssds etc. and for average joe's cheapo ssd he got by local shop campany "nvme, speed, gaming" (and in fact this is cheapest crappy dram-less nvme ssd) it's a concern for ssd lifetime improving, lol

It literally doesn't matter, period. No SSDs made within the last decade will even feel touched by the Indexer, even when you set it to index everything.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this place honestly. It's just endless conflict and negativity about every topic imaginable. Impossible to have a civilized thread. And before you say anything, no, it's not just because 'it's the internet' - I've seen genuinely nice and reasonable tech communities and many other non-tech related communities. But this place... come on guys, does every thread about a simple question have to devolve into 6 pages of arguments? Like I understand that to some people, my original post might've seemed harsh and unnecessarily argumentative, but I didn't intend it to be that at all - it's probably just my sarcastic way of speaking making it seem as if I was craving an argument, which admittedly I should stop practicing. But seriously now, if I jump off a cliff, do you have to follow?

Unwatching. I've said all that I needed to here in post #2.

 

[plastiscɧ]

I love forums like these - your post, and @eidairaman1 saying I'm a "paid shill by MS"? You know, you gotta love the shill argument that pops up every time someone has no counter-argument to what you're saying. I wish I'd have been a paid shill. I'd have been on a tropical island instead of wasting my time here. Anyway...

Never did I say, or at least meant to say that if you disabled indexing since you don't need it, you dislike Windows as a whole. I was talking about the anti-MS and Windows mentality of these forums, while sometimes justified, it's mostly biased or at the very least, uninformed. I was also talking solely about myself disagreeing about XP's search being better. I clarified that I also have criticism towards Windows 11 (such as being released way too early and having some removed functionality - that they're adding back but should've never been taken out) because praising it here in any shape or form will get the cynics onto you.

I understand why these cynics exist though, Microsoft's community managers literally ask you, as an insider, to be as cruel with them as possible in the feedback for both Windows and Edge. You should've seen my feedback history for the past 8 years - it isn't pretty, but it was effective. The difference between my feedback and their forum posts though, is that I've educated myself on what I'm reporting and while I had harsh undertones in my feedback, I kept polite about it. And that has proven effective every time and has actually brought about change.

Apologies if I haven't worded myself properly and have been misunderstood, I admittedly haven't been in the best of moods at the time - but I'm not craving an OS conflict as I really don't care what you use to interface yourself with your hardware, be it Linux, macOS, Windows, or hell even TempleOS. I'm simply asking for common sense instead of misinformation which is abundant in these places. Indexing does not affect anything and I recommend the OP leaves it on - that's all I have to say on the matter. If you personally feel it isn't effective or you don't need it, that's valid too and you can disable it if you so choose.


Again, that's not what I meant. Read what I said to caroline above. My point about the MS & Windows hate is completely and utterly unrelated and disconnected to my opinions on you using the Indexer or not, and that point stems from my exhaustion of seeing all the same uninformed posts on every MS or Windows related thread I check out here. Everyone has a love hate relationship with Windows, myself included, I recognize that. It's fine to bash on it for valid reasons. But like it or not, these forums don't usually have those reasons and don't educate themselves, leading to unjustified bandwagons of cynicism.


It literally doesn't matter, period. No SSDs made within the last decade will even feel touched by the Indexer, even when you set it to index everything.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this place honestly. It's just endless conflict and negativity about every topic imaginable. Impossible to have a civilized thread. And before you say anything, no, it's not just because 'it's the internet' - I've seen genuinely nice and reasonable tech communities and many other non-tech related communities. But this place... come on guys, does every thread about a simple question have to devolve into 6 pages of arguments? Like I understand that to some people, my original post might've seemed harsh and unnecessarily argumentative, but I didn't intend it to be that at all - it's probably just my sarcastic way of speaking making it seem as if I was craving an argument, which admittedly I should stop practicing. But seriously now, if I jump off a cliff, do you have to follow?

Unwatching. I've said all that I needed to here in post #2.

but that is not what the OP has asked to discuss or help.
he is clearly asking for SHUTDOWN. so you should offer him RELIABLE solutions to be able to do this.

simple and easy

 

[Minxie]

but that is not what the OP has asked to discuss or help.
he is clearly asking for SHUTDOWN. so you should offer him RELIABLE solutions to be able to do this.

simple and easy

Dunno if this is bait or not, but he was asking whether or not it's best to disable indexing, not instructions on how to disable it. I said it's best to keep it on. Case closed, "auf wiedersehen".

 

[plastiscɧ]

Dunno if this is bait or not, but he was asking whether or not it's best to disable indexing, not instructions on how to disable it. I said it's best to keep it on. Case closed, "auf wiedersehen".

well, it is known that the search for files also works without index.
why do you advise him to do this if he is not looking for this solution?

I would like to have a red car. no, take white, which is not so warm inside in the summer. -

in this case, it doesn't matter which color is better if you don't credibly demonstrate that deactivation has disadvantages.

 

[LabRat 891]

Used to think it's best off. Now, I agree with Minxie(first reply in thread).
If you EVER use Windows' search, you'll regret turning off Indexing. Even on a multi-core w/ nVME it's slow and inaccurate without it.

 

[plastiscɧ]

let's put the cart before the horse;

what decisive ADVANTAGE does it bring to index a completely hunchbacked outdated OS with 550,000 single files if I search most of the time as an Joe Normal consumer only photos and other media?


Minxies OS and mine (10 vs 11) maybe that's the reason why.....

 

[lexluthermiester]

I love forums like these - your post, and @eidairaman1 saying I'm a "paid shill by MS"?

To be fair, it looks like you created a TPU account just to fluff the noise about "the microsoft way".

 

[HD64G]

Indexing is of no use for SSDs and is hampering the system performance when on HDD. So, where was the plus besides specific needs of some people?

 

[Bill_Bright]

Indexing is of no use for SSDs

Not true. If one knows the file or folder name, then you are right and Indexing is of no use on a SSD - or a HDD. Regular Search can find it. Or if adept with a command prompt, you can easily find that file with the simple command from root:

dir filename.* /s ​

But if one only knows a specific word (a person's name for example), but does not know which file among 1000s of files that name is mentioned, Indexing can find it.

No one, I say again, no one can predict that they will never know or forget the filename of a file they need that contains some word they are looking for.

And Indexing may only hamper performance on a HDD while Indexing is in progress - which is when the computer/user is otherwise idle - at least with the latest version of W10 and now W11. Indexing today is not like it was yesteryear.

So, where was the plus besides specific needs of some people?

The real question is, where is the minus for just leaving it alone? If have like 4GB of RAM, an entry level i3, integrated graphics and 32-bit W10 Home on a crowded 5400RPM hard drive and you never just let your computer go to sleep after using it, you might be impacted by Indexing. But even then, it should step back into the background minimizing any impact (assuming the W10 is running the most recent versions).

Who else might not need it? Someone who never stores any personal files on their system.

Again, Indexing today is not the same as it was before.

 

[Mussels]

I just know where my files are.

Windows doesnt. The moment you search for something in the start menu, you're gunna notice the massive delays if it's not indexed.
Files are indexed once and it's done. It's not a never ending task that adds every single file on your drives.


I dont get anyones logic - indexing slowed old shitty drives while it first indexed, but once it was DONE it was a massive performance boost - it's literally a cache.

This is nothing more than impatience, people would throw a billion files on their desktop, get mad the files were being indexed and never let the damn thing finish.

 

[80251]

So indexing makes sense on spinning rust but not on SSD's?

 

[Mussels]

So indexing makes sense on spinning rust but not on SSD's?

That's what it was designed for, yes.

It still speeds up SSD's - you're just

1. not going to notice the initial slowdown since it caches faster
2. far less likely to have an SSD read saturated to see the biggest benefits


It's stupidly easy to reduce the amount of cached locations if you hoard things in dumb locations (like storing terabytes of files on your desktop) - just exclude that location. run with it disabled and see how slow it is to even find programs in your start menu

 

[plastiscɧ]

in summary

Index - In these areas you will come across indices

The term "index" does not mean exactly the same thing in every context. According to Wikipedia and Duden, the term "index" describes the following, among other things:
An index can serve as a register - for example, in textbooks.
In law, an index hides a blacklist on which prohibited material is listed.
In databases, when you come across an index, it is a separate structure that helps you navigate through the chaos of data.

When is an index useful?
The use of indexes is recommended for databases that store large amounts of data and are queried very frequently. Here it depends on which information plays a central role.

What does an index do?
What belongs in the index?

Index as register
An index as a register summarizes references in a fixed order:
In books or journals, an index is usually located in the appendix.
Here, a distinction is made between subject indexes and indexes of persons as well as mixed forms.
These are also called subject indexes, name indexes or indexes.
This index is usually arranged alphabetically and contains references or brief information on keywords.


Index as blacklist
The phrase "end up on the index" has long been established in the colloquial language. Meant with it above all the following:
Synonyms for the index in the sense of a blacklist are negative list, blacklist or blacklist.
People, things and often also works are listed here that are to be disadvantaged in some way compared to all others.
According to its own statement, the index of the Federal Review Board for Media Harmful to Young People includes media with "war glorification", "real depictions that violate human dignity", "media dominated by violence", "posturing", and "obvious serious danger to young people".
Films, music, PC games, pictures or texts that are harmful to young people can end up on this index, for example, and are then not permitted for free sale.

In the past, books that the Pope considered critical of the Church, hostile to the Church, blasphemous or sacrilegious were placed on the Catholic Church's index. These were banned, banished or even burned.


Index in databases
Indexes play a special role in databases. Database index enables convenient and fast search functions in software:
Regardless of the order of database entries, a logical order results from the database index.
This means that when a new entry is written to a database, it may be physically written after the last entry, but is entered in the index at exactly the right place. The index is therefore a pointer.
The primary key from databases can be considered as the most important index that uniquely identifies each record. A simple index, like an initial letter of a record, is a weak index, because it can be repeated very often.
So in principle, a database index works like the index as an index in a book: you can find a keyword in a book more quickly if there is already an index that tells you the page numbers on which the word appears.


TLDR:
So indexes increase the efficiency of searches in databases and pseudo-databases, like Windows Explorer or Google.

 

[Bill_Bright]

So indexing makes sense on spinning rust but not on SSD's?

Why does this have to be repeated so many times?

Indexing catalogs the contents of files - NOT just the file and folder names.

If you already know the filename of the file you want, then Indexing with a SSD offers no advantage over regular search. You can use File Manager or even the command prompt and quickly find your file.

HOWEVER, if you do NOT know the filename but know a word in the file (a person's name, for example), those tools, including standard Search, will not help you. But Indexing will and therefore still has great value and makes great sense - even for SSDs.

 

[chrcoluk]

I have indexing off, I type HxD in the start menu box and it instantly shows me the entry, same with Word etc. So I am not sure its a requirement for fast start menu searching, and the index does get updated at its configured time in the task scheduler, if it was a run one time only deal how would it detect new files and file changes.

 

[lexluthermiester]

TLDR:
So indexes increase the efficiency of searches in databases and pseudo-databases, like Windows Explorer or Google.

While there is merit to this, most people don't need that functionality and the problems far over-shadow the benefits.

Indexing catalogs the contents of files - NOT just the file and folder names.

Yeah, and that takes resources. It's also not very secure. Another solid reason to shut the service off or delete it.

 

[eidairaman1]

So indexing makes sense on spinning rust but not on SSD's?

Rust is oxidized metal, HDDs are not oxidized.

 

[plastiscɧ]

While there is merit to this, most people don't need that functionality and the problems far over-shadow the benefits.


Yeah, and that takes resources. It's also not very secure. Another solid reason to shut the service off or delete it.

I have also not really, I have so far found everything I was looking for.
But every animal has its own little playground.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yeah, and that takes resources. It's also not very secure. Another solid reason to shut the service off or delete it.

Everything takes resources. HOWEVER, you seem to be implying it is hogging resources all the time, which, of course is not true. It is not constantly indexing every file. Once indexed, its done until that file is modified or new files are added. And again indexing is done way in the background, when the user is idle.

Not very secure? Come on! That's nonsense.

We get that if it has the Microsoft name on it, you don't like it. But there is no need to make up stuff in your efforts to make everyone else not like it either.

While there is merit to this, most people don't need that functionality and the problems far over-shadow the benefits.

You speak with forked tongue. Once again you imply there are HUGE problems affecting the majority of Windows users without showing us any evidence to back your claims.

Show us evidence Indexing creates a security issue! Show us evidence of these "problems" you claim "far over-shadow" the benefits. Not your anecdotal "because I say so" claims.

The reality is Indexing is beneficial (has "merit") and makes available a useful function - regardless if users use it or not. And the reality is, any problems that do arise tend to be very minor and affect only a very few number people.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Not very secure? Come on! That's nonsense.

You think a Windows service indexing the CONTENTS of files being a security problem is nonsense? Where did you get your certification for security SOP criteria?

 

[80251]

I wondered about that too, if malware can access whatever file(s) are holding the index of contents of files it might be easier to find out what files are interesting and maybe see the contents of said files just by hacking the indexing service or the indexing files themselves.