Windows keeps defragging one of my SSDs

[chrcoluk]

This started since last windows update, screenshot attached, note it has correctly identified the SSD, so doesnt think its a spindle.

All my other SSDs only trim, this one is doing an actual defrag. I keep stopping it but then it keeps starting again, unless I kill the defrag service.

If I click the optimise button after its stopped it does a trim as it should do. Its just when I leave the system idle it starts a defrag.

 

[bug]

Stop fragging it, I guess?

Also interesting, it claims it writes more than it reads. I hope that's not write amplification.

Edit: On a more helpful note, I was able to dig up this: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...t-defragger-bug-defrags-ssd-drives-too-often/

 

[chrcoluk]

I clicked on the "change settings" and deselected the SSD. Seems to have tamed it now, I guess it gets no automatic trim as a consequence of this though?

Interesting article thanks, I wonder if its ever defragged my other SSDs then and I simply didnt notice. Goes against what seems to be common wisdom.

 

[bug]

I clicked on the "change settings" and deselected the SSD. Seems to have tamed it now, I guess it gets no automatic trim as a consequence of this though?

Interesting article thanks, I wonder if its ever defragged my other SSDs then and i simply didnt notice. Goes against what seems to be common wisdom.

You can always run it yourself. Or maybe script it and add it as a separate scheduled task.

 

[chrcoluk]

Whats the command to run a trim manually then? since its usually initiated via the GUI button.

 

[bug]

Whats the command to run a trim manually then? since its usually initiated via the GUI button.

Optimize and Defrag Drives in Windows 10

How to Optimize and Defragment Drives in Windows 10

www.tenforums.com

 

[Regeneration]

Whats the command to run a trim manually then? since its usually initiated via the GUI button.

defrag.exe X: /L

 

[chrcoluk]

I ended up letting it finish the defrag, now I know its by design and Microsoft insist its ok, I let it go, but if I do change my mind I will replace the automatic optimisation with a task running that command, thanks.

For the curious I did a before and after on SMART write data, it was just over 140 gigs.

 

[GreiverBlade]

don't even do it manually
SSD do not need or like Defrag ... just ... don't
"To summarize, do not defrag an SSD
The answer is short and simple — do not defrag a solid state drive. At best it won't do anything, at worst it does nothing for your performance and you will use up write cycles. If you have done it a few times, it isn't going to cause you much trouble or harm your SSD."

ah readed crossway ... well yeah manual TRIM is okay tho

 

[chrcoluk]

don't even do it manually
SSD do not need or like Defrag ... just ... don't
"To summarize, do not defrag an SSD
The answer is short and simple — do not defrag a solid state drive. At best it won't do anything, at worst it does nothing for your performance and you will use up write cycles. If you have done it a few times, it isn't going to cause you much trouble or harm your SSD."

ah readed crossway ... well yeah manual TRIM is okay tho

Microsoft seem to think it now should be done when volume shadow copy is enabled. I have not manually defragged my drive, my manual comment was to run trim.

However windows is automatically defragging at least one of my SSD's (probably has done the rest) as I do use volume shadow copy to make snapshots.

 

[GreiverBlade]

have not manually defragged my drive, my manual comment was to run trim.

yeah, noticed it after posting ... did not remove the extra part just in case someone else having the issue and reading crossway like i did

strange behhviour... you'd expect M$ to have a decent detection if one drive is HDD or SSD and set basic defragg or TRIM (/L). (furthermore they do show SSD or HDD in optimise drive)

i need to check my rig, out of 10 drives 8 of them are SSD, sigh.

 

[P4-630]

A windows clean install may fix it.

 

[Arco]

Windows.

 

[GreiverBlade]

A windows clean install may fix it.

ok seems weird
my install is a dirty swap since many years
i can confirm that every SSD in my Rig only have had retrim

definitely something fishy here but i can't point the finger on...
maybe induced by 3rd party soft (i had a small odd issue with Samsung Magician ... not running it anymore)
(i had a OCZ Vertex III 120gb running as OS drive for roughly 10yrs still at 98% health when i cloned it to a 870 Evo 240gb and retired it )

Windows.

not really helping ... Windows is fine most of the time, never had any issues since 1998

 

[Arco]

not really helping ... Windows is fine most of the time, never had any issues since 1998

You have had a great experience then. I'll admit I've had a good experience too but sometimes it's just really stupid...

 

[bug]

A windows clean install may fix it.

Yeah, such a routine operation, I'm wondering why people aren't doing it more often

 

[chrcoluk]

What version of windows do you have? Its nice it specifies if it was just retrim, mine just says last optimized.

I have confirmed if I manually run maintenance tasks it isnt defragging again. I assume if I leave it alone it will defrag once a month as Microsoft stated.

 

[Arco]

Yeah, such a routine operation, I'm wondering why people aren't doing it more often

When you get in a rut. Or you have really bad Wi-Fi and can't be bothered to redownload and dirty your windows install.

 

[GreiverBlade]

sometimes it's just really stupid...

yeah not denying that, given users with issues, i do consider myself quite lucky with techs in general.

 

[Arco]

yeah not denying that, given users with issues, i do consider myself quite lucky with techs in general.

Personally, I'm going to reinstall Windows 11 with all the tweaks. I have 10 GB of ram usage with like normal background apps only. Better to do early than later.

 

[GreiverBlade]

i noticed i had 10gb memory usage, but that's with Opera and many tabs, MSI APP Player (emulator) and some other running, normal usage is between 4 and 5gb (6.9gb with Opera)

i do recommend Win reinstall when everything go f.u.b.a.r. tho
(win 10 21H2 atm and i plan on remaining till 2025 on it i let the Win 11 Beta test go on and probably Win 12 if it's out by 2024 as they mention )

ah, i remember a defragg bug on Win ME tho induced by motherboard utility software iirc (about the only grip i had with ME nonetheless)

to my personal experience, Win issues are tied to hardwware failure and "not agreeing with the OS" 3rd party management software

serious issue i had was a Code 41 which i narrowed down to either the RAM/Mobo or PSU (ended up forcing upgrade PSU/Mobo/RAM but kept the win install as it was, well i was due to a system upgrade anyway, CPU GPU were around 6yrs old )

 

[Bill_Bright]

Windows.

not really helping ... Windows is fine most of the time, never had any issues since 1998

I agree with GreiverBlade.

@chrcoluk - Since your other SSDs are behaving properly, I don't think the blame can be put on Windows. While it "appears" the drive was properly identified as a SSD, my "hunch" is something might be corrupt in that "handshaking" process for that drive. You might want to check with Samsung to see if there is a firmware update for that drive.

And I am not saying this isn't the bug BC wrote about - I just don't get the feeling it is.

Microsoft seem to think it now should be done when volume shadow copy is enabled.

Now wait a minute! This is making the wrong assumption. You are correct and when Volume Shadow Copy is enabled, "a type of" defragging occurs (about once a month - "IF" needed). But it is NOT the same defragging process as done on a hard drive. Windows still knows it is a SSD and so does a type of intelligent defragging.

See this, The real and complete story - Does Windows defragment your SSD? and note the conclusion here,

CONCLUSION
No, Windows is not foolishly or blindly running a defrag on your SSD every night, and no, Windows defrag isn't shortening the life of your SSD unnecessarily. Modern SSDs don't work the same way that we are used to with traditional hard drives.

Yes, your SSD's file system sometimes needs a kind of defragmentation and that's handled by Windows, monthly by default, when appropriate. The intent is to maximize performance and a long life. If you disable defragmentation completely, you are taking a risk that your filesystem metadata could reach maximum fragmentation and get you potentially in trouble.

I think you should check to make sure Windows and SSD firmware are up to date. Then when/if you see this process happen again LET IT FINISH! Then see what happens.

 

[ThrashZone]

What version of windows do you have? Its nice it specifies if it was just retrim, mine just says last optimized.

I have confirmed if I manually run maintenance tasks it isnt defragging again. I assume if I leave it alone it will defrag once a month as Microsoft stated.

Hi,
You might go to properties of the ssd "I always do" trash bin and disable it from doing that bad thing is when doing this files aren't recoverable without backup.
Depending on disk size trash bin is pretty large.

Might calm down trim tasks.

 

[chrcoluk]

I agree with GreiverBlade.

@chrcoluk - Since your other SSDs are behaving properly, I don't think the blame can be put on Windows. While it "appears" the drive was properly identified as a SSD, my "hunch" is something might be corrupt in that "handshaking" process for that drive. You might want to check with Samsung to see if there is a firmware update for that drive.

And I am not saying this isn't the bug BC wrote about - I just don't get the feeling it is.


Now wait a minute! This is making the wrong assumption. You are correct and when Volume Shadow Copy is enabled, "a type of" defragging occurs (about once a month - "IF" needed). But it is NOT the same defragging process as done on a hard drive. Windows still knows it is a SSD and so does a type of intelligent defragging.

See this, The real and complete story - Does Windows defragment your SSD? and note the conclusion here,



I think you should check to make sure Windows and SSD firmware are up to date. Then when/if you see this process happen again LET IT FINISH! Then see what happens.

Yep I read that page, note the following quote.

Actually Scott and Vadim are both wrong. Storage Optimizer will defrag an SSD once a month if volume snapshots are enabled. This is by design and necessary due to slow volsnap copy on write performance on fragmented SSD volumes. It’s also somewhat of a misconception that fragmentation is not a problem on SSDs. If an SSD gets too fragmented you can hit maximum file fragmentation (when the metadata can’t represent any more file fragments) which will result in errors when you try to write/extend a file. Furthermore, more file fragments means more metadata to process while reading/writing a file, which can lead to slower performance.

I am assuming volume shadowcopy has a negative effect on fragmentation.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yep I read that page, note the following quote.

Yes, but it seems you stopped reading at that point. Keep reading.

The conclusion I quoted certainly took into consideration one paragraph you took out of proportion.

My advice still stands.

I think you should check to make sure Windows and SSD firmware are up to date. Then when/if you see this process happen again LET IT FINISH! Then see what happens.