For gaming, AMD is more than enough. Obviously i5/i7 are faster so if you're the type of consumer that buys a computer once every 5 years, i5/i7 is the way to go, though I'd lean towards i7 for sure in that case.

Well if you buy once every 5 years it seems socket AM3 might be the way to go.

PP MguireWell if you buy once every 1.5 - 3 years it seems socket AM3 might be the way to go.

There, I corrected that for you.

So AMD changes socket compatibility when it makes sense, and not when they try to charge more money in a new board from consumers for every upgrade they make.
Doesn't that make sense from a consumer's point of view?

That said, recommending AMD systems for 90% of the people I know is a no-brainer.

CDdude55That all really comes down to the apps and programs being used, but in a general sense the i5 is noticeably faster then what AMD currently has out, now of course this depends on the circumstance, obviously not all the time the Core series will outperform the PII's, but if you look at the bigger picture Intel has proven itself with the Core i5/i7 architectures and you can see this in close to any benchmark or game. The i7 maybe more expensive, but it's well worth it for any gamer, photoshop, video encoding or benchmarking junkie. AMD has locked in the best price for performance combination's with there chips, they smoke in gaming without breaking the bank, but the i5/i7's still surge ahead in most cases.

Past, Present!
Pentium 4 vs. AMD Phenom I
Intel Core 2 Duo/Quad vs. AMD Phenom I & II
Intel Core i7 vs. AMD Phenom II
Intel Core i9 vs. AMD Phenom II

Where did AMD go wrong? Besides AMD’s earlier CEO being a jackass, Intel released 4 different CPU designs with 2 being major where as AMD’s been using the same CPU design for many years now with a few tweaks here & there hanging on for there dear life.

Possible Future?
Intel Sandy Bridge & Beyond vs. AMD Bulldozer.

AMD’s been working on Bulldozer’s design for a long time now. Bulldozer was suppose to get released in 2009 then AMD kept pushing back its launch date further into the future for a final resting place of 2011. Bulldozer is being designed for expandability, AMD will be able to build on this architecture for many years to come the right way not like Hammer.

Remember this Quote when Bulldozer is finally released sometime in early 2011.

[Bulldozer is] really a very elegant design and the basis for what AMD, Intel and NVIDIA have been talking about for years now. The CPU will do what it does best while the GPU does what it is good at.” – Anand Shimpi, AnandTech

Personally I can once again see Intel following AMD’s design lead again just like they’ve been doing for a long time now. AMD leads where Intel’s follows.

PP MguireWhere are people getting these absurd numbers from with Intel prices?

AMDs High Performance Phenom II 965 = 180 bucks new
Intel Mainstream Core i5 750 = 200 bucks. new

My situation, sold AMD mobo/proc and bought i5 mobo/proc with same cash brand new.

In any given scenario whether it be benching, gaming, encoding, day to day, i get better performance 4ghz vs 4ghz period. I dont see why its so hard to understand or get past the fanboyism.

Why dont i compare 965 to i7? Simply because those CPUs arent on the same level. 965 dosent have HT or triple channel memory interface. Hence the extra price for i7 and for very good reason.

For anybody willing to do a proper upgrade to DDR3 its a clear cut answer which way to go because you can get cheap P55 boards too. 8x/8x bandwidth dosent matter because if your on this kind of budget then you probably wont be doing SLI or Crossfire anyways. So generic answer of price to performance is kinda moot with the facts staring you in the face. If you can afford a 965 you can afford an i5.

Now if you already have a 790fx DDR3/2 board and just want to upgrade your cpu then obviously that is clear so my previous paragraph was to people doing a system overhaul on a slight budget.

Wile E what encoding settings and programs are we talking here? I want to see how fast i can encode a bluray with your settings on a 4ghz i5.

It's complicated. I use multiple programs. AnyDVD Hd to get it to the hard drive, ClownBD to demux it, eac3to (with USeac3to for a gui) to convert the audio to flac. That's the tedious stuff. The longest part is the video encode, for which I usually use Handbrake or MediaCoder.

If in Handbrake, I do 2 pass, usually around 11000kbps with the following settings in the advanced tab:

b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50:subq=9:me=umh:trellis=2:bframes=6:b-pyramid=1:ref=8:analyse=all:merange=32:direct=auto:no-fast-pskip=1:no-dct-decimate=1:deblock=-1,-1

This usually results in 3fps for the first pass. I can't remember the fps on the 2nd pass tho.

I mux it all together with mkvtoolnix, complete with subs and chapters in an mkv.


It takes so long, I've pretty much quit compressing it for now, and just put the uncompressed video stream in the mkv. I only compress if I need it to fit on a specific medium, like trying to get it on a flash drive or DVD-DL, or something along those lines.

ToTTenTranzThere, I corrected that for you.

So AMD changes socket compatibility when it makes sense, and not when they try to charge more money in a new board from consumers for every upgrade they make.
Doesn't that make sense from a consumer's point of view?

That said, recommending AMD systems for 90% of the people I know is a no-brainer.

Well actually i was more or less following what Erocker said considering Bulldozer is supposed to run on AM3 and Intels mainstream socket (what i normally compare Phenom II to) wont have any more future upgrades. Since bulldozer is supposed to be released next year on socket AM3 (supposedly) then if it lasts a good while then AM3 platform should be around to stay for a while to come.

The intel fans and the AMD fans are both right, in different ways.

I had to agonize whether to invest a decent amount of money in a PC or just go with the best budget system.. and being a bit of an obsessive I read page after page of reviews, benchmarks, forums, opinions, everything.. for months.. on which was the best performance.. and which was the best value..

Anyway, yadda yadda, at my lowest budget (in Europe anyway) AMD were best value by far with the cheap X2's and especially the X3 435 at 60 euro, just couldn't be bested at that price.

However

..when comparing the top AMD quad chips, and even though the i5 750 commanded a higher price (Europe again) of 30 euros over the AMD 955 and 20 euros minimum over the motherboard (a 785 for the AMD 955 would've done), even that 50 euro price difference, I still would have gone i5 750 for the performance. Clock for clock and overall its a better chip than the AMDs.

Anyway, in the end, by some miracle I found a new boxed AMD 955 in a pawn shop for 70 euros (just less than 100 dollars) and went with that.

Moral of the story - If there was only one chip company we'd all be paying through the nose for extremely crap expensive chips.

The real moral is that for now Intel is definitely performance king, whereas AMD is lagging behind and concentrating on the value/budget area.. but producing some very well priced chips in the process..

Phenom II X6 Series Details Surface, Slated for May 2010? I think that's way too far off. AMD should try and get this CPU out at least in Q1 2010. If it's planned to get released in May 2010 (Q2 2010), you can bet they will further delay the darn thing for a late Q3 2010. Not early but late, AMD is well known for these rediculous delays. :shadedshu

But once again I will give them the Benefit of the doubt ;)

This time i think may is already delayed cuz i have seen in some sites that they were going to launch this chipset in 2009! Anyway i am on amd side ;)

Wile EIt's complicated. I use multiple programs. AnyDVD Hd to get it to the hard drive, ClownBD to demux it, eac3to (with USeac3to for a gui) to convert the audio to flac. That's the tedious stuff. The longest part is the video encode, for which I usually use Handbrake or MediaCoder.

If in Handbrake, I do 2 pass, usually around 11000kbps with the following settings in the advanced tab:

b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50:subq=9:me=umh:trellis=2:bframes=6:b-pyramid=1:ref=8:analyse=all:merange=32:direct=auto:no-fast-pskip=1:no-dct-decimate=1:deblock=-1,-1

This usually results in 3fps for the first pass. I can't remember the fps on the 2nd pass tho.

I mux it all together with mkvtoolnix, complete with subs and chapters in an mkv.


It takes so long, I've pretty much quit compressing it for now, and just put the uncompressed video stream in the mkv. I only compress if I need it to fit on a specific medium, like trying to get it on a flash drive or DVD-DL, or something along those lines.

sound like you need a upgraded because my current PHII is more than a match for your current Core 2 Duo rig and since the PhII matches a core 2 duo step for step sounds like nothing will help you currently.

Wile EIt's complicated. I use multiple programs. AnyDVD Hd to get it to the hard drive, ClownBD to demux it, eac3to (with USeac3to for a gui) to convert the audio to flac. That's the tedious stuff. The longest part is the video encode, for which I usually use Handbrake or MediaCoder.

If in Handbrake, I do 2 pass, usually around 11000kbps with the following settings in the advanced tab:

b-adapt=2:rc-lookahead=50:subq=9:me=umh:trellis=2:bframes=6:b-pyramid=1:ref=8:analyse=all:merange=32:direct=auto:no-fast-pskip=1:no-dct-decimate=1:deblock=-1,-1

This usually results in 3fps for the first pass. I can't remember the fps on the 2nd pass tho.

I mux it all together with mkvtoolnix, complete with subs and chapters in an mkv.


It takes so long, I've pretty much quit compressing it for now, and just put the uncompressed video stream in the mkv. I only compress if I need it to fit on a specific medium, like trying to get it on a flash drive or DVD-DL, or something along those lines.

Sounds like you need a upgraded because my current PHII is more than a match for your current Core 2 Duo rig and since the PHII matches a Core 2 Duo step for step, sounds like nothing will help you currently. The I7 is faster but not fast enough for what your doing, it might knock a few minutes off but it is certainly not that much faster than what you or I have.

ASUS M4A89GTD PRO [+890GX][+SATA6gbps]

Look at that beautiful this motherboard

trt740Sounds like you need a upgraded because my current PHII is more than a match for your current Core 2 Duo rig and since the PHII matches a Core 2 Duo step for step, sounds like nothing will help you currently. The I7 is faster but not fast enough for what your doing, it might knock a few minutes off but it is certainly not that much faster than what you or I have.

i7 is 20% faster at the same clocks than either my chip (Yorky 12MB) or PII x4, but i7 OC's farther than both. I'm upgrading to a 6 core i9 upon release, so that's 50% faster again. None of that takes into account the higher OCs. It can easily be near twice as fast, depending on the final clock. That's a significant difference, one that AMD cannot match. Granted, I'll likely be paying far more for my rig, but that's not the point, as I'm willing to pay the extra for the extra performance.

In summary to your original post directed at me, no, AMD is not fast enough for my needs, plain and simple.

Wile EIn summary to your original post directed at me, no, AMD is not fast enough for my needs, plain and simple.

now thats just not true i'm sure there is a 16 core 4.5ghz cpu sitting in AMD's R&D lab slated for 4 years from now it probably has QDR and 8 channel ram too.

CDdude55That all really comes down to the apps and programs being used, but in a general sense the i5 is noticeably faster then what AMD currently has out, now of course this depends on the circumstance, obviously not all the time the Core series will outperform the PII's, but if you look at the bigger picture Intel has proven itself with the Core i5/i7 architectures and you can see this in close to any benchmark or game. The i7 maybe more expensive, but it's well worth it for any gamer, photoshop, video encoding or benchmarking junkie. AMD has locked in the best price for performance combination's with there chips, they smoke in gaming without breaking the bank, but the i5/i7's still surge ahead in most cases.

Yea but is the performance difference noticeable? Can you tell the difference between 100 FPS and 150?

cdawallnow thats just not true i'm sure there is a 16 core 4.5ghz cpu sitting in AMD's R&D lab slated for 4 years from now it probably has QDR and 8 channel ram too.

And I'm sure Intel has that + Hyperthreading, and it OCs more. lol.

does anybody know how much these chips might overclock?

Wile EIn summary to your original post directed at me, no, AMD is not fast enough for my needs, plain and simple.

With all the time you've spent off-topic baby bitching about the great news from AMD. Your expensive Intel purchase seems like a big wast of money, You don't seem to be doing much more than trolling in forums. And all that requires is a cellphone. No one believes you not even yourself. You have to remember u are talking about products you don't even own... we are ON them they aren't slow by any means.... who do u think your fooling? Do what u have to do to justify wasting your money some place else TPU isn't the place for it.

i suggest ----> :banghead:

Wile EAnd I'm sure Intel has that + Hyperthreading, and it OCs more. lol.

i don't know four years IMO is about were AMD will surpass intel again%2

Nick89Yea but is the performance difference noticeable? Can you tell the difference between 100 FPS and 150?

In other CPU intensive apps like i mentioned yes there is a noticeable difference. When it comes to gaming it all depends, now of course pretty much know one will see a difference in 100 to 150 FPS. But it all depends on the game at hand. But i was just saying in general that the i7/i5's has the performance crown, so you should see a definite increase in gaming performance. Now whether or not its going to be noticeable, well that depends on a lot of things.

Wile EAnd I'm sure Intel has that + Hyperthreading, and it OCs more. lol.

Ah but Intel didn't just get a major grant from the Canadian government! I should have known those damn Canucks were part of the red team!


FYI. This was not meant to offend any of my friends to the north.

KitkatWith all the time you've spent off-topic baby bitching about the great news from AMD. Your expensive Intel purchase seems like a big wast of money, You don't seem to be doing much more than trolling in forums. And all that requires is a cellphone. No one believes you not even yourself. You have to remember u are talking about products you don't even own... we are ON them they aren't slow by any means.... who do u think your fooling? Do what u have to do to justify wasting your money some place else TPU isn't the place for it.

i suggest ----> :banghead:

My money wasn't wasted when I bought the CPU, as AMD didn't have anything even remotely close to Intel in terms of performance when I bought this setup, and at the time I had a sponsorship with Palit, and had to have a good bench cpu. Phenom II was just a rumor at the time. Phenom I was the closest thing AMD had available. My choice was obvious.

As far as me not owning products, what products would you be referring to? If you don't believe I own the rig in my sys specs, I can assure you I do, and have benches to prove it, or can just take photos of my setup to conform if you wish.

If you mean I don't own a Phenom II, you would be correct, but I have built a few for clients and friends, and do have first hand experience with them, and have even unlocked a couple of 720's for friends. I'm sorry, but they offer nothing over my current setup. That's not to say they are bad, but they are not an upgrade over what I already own.

My AMD rig is couple years old, and consists of a DFI UltraII M2 mobo that can't accept Phenoms, and a 6400+ X2. If it could accept Phenoms, it would have one. (I can also take pictures of that if you wish.)

I'm not the one trolling here, you are. People brought up performance, and I just speculated that Intel will still be faster and still OC better. I also mentioned that the additional performance is worth the money to me. Don't see how that's trolling. I'm not the one getting personal and trying to call anyone out.

cdawalli don't know four years IMO is about were AMD will surpass intel again%2

It all depends on Intel getting complacent, like they did in the P4 days. I don't know if it will be in 4 years, but I'm pretty sure it will happen eventually, and when it does, I'll jump ship back to AMD.

Just wonder how some can say that I7 or I5 is a faster gaming cpu.

There are 4 tests so far on gamersettings with radeon 5850, 5870 and 5890.

Well xbit lab i actually dont count as a valid test, becouse they paired x8 Crossfire, Am2+ motherbored with 2 gb DDR2 of ram vs i7 x16 crossfire and 6 gb DDR 3 ram.

www.legionhardware.com/
LegionHardware
I7 vs phii 965 both at 4 ghz and with radeon 5970

Phenom wins 5 of 9
Ties 1
I7 wins 3 of 9

www.guru3d.com/article/phenom-ii-x4-965-be-revision-c3-review-test/16

Guru3d - I7-940 vs phii 965 at stock with 5870.

Brother in Arms- På stock

i 1024x768 I7-940 beatsPHII 965 with 5 fps
i 1920x1080 PHII 965 beats I7-940 with 3 fps

Crysis warhead
i 1024x768 I7-940 beats PHII 965 with 6 fps
i 1920x1080 ties

Resident Evil
i 1024x768 I7-940 beats PHII 965 47 fps
i 1920x1080 I7-940 beats PHII 965 30 fps

Far Cry
i 1024x768 I7-940 beats PHII 965 with 25 fps
i 1920x1080 PHII 965 beats I7-940 with 5 fps

benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=384&Itemid=63&limit=1&limitstart=7

I5-750 vs phII 965 - With radeon 5850

Devil May Cry 4 Benchmark

Benchmark Reviews uses the DirectX 10 test set at 1920x1200 resolution to test with 8x AA (highest common AA setting available between GeForce and Radeon video cards) and 16x AF. The benchmark runs through four different test scenes, but scenes #2 and #4 usually offer the most graphical challenge.
Sene 2
I5-750 - Loses with 4,8 fps
Sene 4
I5-750 – Loses with 4,4 fps

Far Cry 2 Benchmark

Benchmark Reviews used the maximum settings allowed for DirectX 10 tests, with the resolution set to 1920x1200. Performance settings were all set to 'Very High', Render Quality was set to 'Ultra High' overall quality, 8x anti-aliasing was applied, and HDR and Bloom were enabled.

I5-750 – Loses with 1,8 fps

Resident Evil 5 Tests
Benchmark Reviews uses the DirectX 10 version of the test at 1920x1200 resolution. Super-High quality settings are configured, with 8x MSAA post processing effects for maximum demand on the GPU. Test scenes from Area #3 and Area #4 require the most graphics processing power, and the results are collected for the chart illustrated below.
Area 3#
I5-750 – Loses with 1,6 fps
Area 4#
i5-750 – Loses with 3,7 fps


So yes if you want to play on low resulution and with eye candy off, i5 and i7 is superior, but can you see it ?, most lcd screens works on 60hz, witch meens 60fps.

But what happens when u turn eyecandy and resolution up.

As far as i can count of the 3 valid tests on gamersettigs

Phenom II 965 has 12 wins
Ties 2 times
Phenom II 965 looses 4 times

Well one time major, but this should tell u that in most games Phenom II is evry bit as good as i5 and i7, actually a littel better.

This also should tell evryone that is interested in hardware that testing on low res and with eyecandy off do not tell the truth wich cpu is a good gamercpu.

modderWho Wants to Buy a MAGNY COURS ( AMD Opteron 12 cores ) only for US $7,000.00 on Ebay :D
and here a complete TYAN server with 4 x MAGNY COURS ( 48 CORES) .Good price US $22,000.00 also on Ebay:roll:

Only if I can send the money to a Nigerian account via Western Union.

COMING SOON to this store.. NEW TYAN Quad socketed 48 total cores MAGNY-COURS based Systems

G34 Socket BOXED AMD CPU's with three year warranty



Built within a TYAN VX50 System Chassis

with 2+1 Redundant Power Supply

add in a Supplemental Power module for the video graphics adapter

DYNATRON G34 Socket Fans

4 x 6174 AMD OPTERON PROCESSORS

We are just waiting for the Release of the TYAN S8812 Motherboard to build this Server



Motherboard specs...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They don't even have a motherboard yet. /fail