Wednesday, September 7th 2011

MSI Calls Bluff on Gigabyte's PCIe Gen 3 Ready Claim

In August, Gigabyte made a claim that baffled at least MSI, that scores of its motherboards are Ready for Native PCIe Gen. 3. Along with the likes of ASRock, MSI was one of the first with motherboards featuring PCI-Express 3.0 slots, the company took the pains to educate buyers what PCI-E 3.0 is, and how to spot a motherboard that features it. MSI thinks that Gigabyte made a factual blunder bordering misinformation by claiming that as many as 40 of its motherboards are "Ready for Native PCIe Gen. 3." MSI decided to put its engineering and PR team to build a technically-sound presentation rebutting Gigabyte's claims.

More slides, details follow.

MSI begins by explaining that PCIe support isn't as easy as laying a wire between the CPU and the slot. It needs specifications-compliant lane switches and electrical components, and that you can't count on certain Gigabytes for future-proofing.

MSI did some PCI-Express electrical testing using a 22 nm Ivy Bridge processor sample.
MSI claims that apart from the G1.Sniper 2, none of Gigabyte's so-called "Ready for Native PCIe Gen. 3" motherboards are what the badge claims to be, and that the badge is extremely misleading to buyers. Time to refill the popcorn bowl.Source: MSI
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286 Comments on MSI Calls Bluff on Gigabyte's PCIe Gen 3 Ready Claim

#1
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
This is just a marketing strategy. Ivy bridge and pci-e 3.0 will work just fine on gigabyte motherboards.
So you're saying that I get 32GB/s bandwidth on a board with PCI express switches, wow :toast:

Because that completely defies logic.

If you mean, Gigabyte boards will never use Gen3 because the cards and CPU will have to switch down to Gen2 and by that way mean "support" then, sure, I believe you :)
Posted on Reply
#2
jfk1024
by: neliz
So you're saying that I get 32GB/s bandwidth on a board with PCI express switches, wow :toast:

Because that completely defies logic.

If you mean, Gigabyte boards will never use Gen3 because the cards and CPU will have to switch down to Gen2 and by that way mean "support" then, sure, I believe you :)
even pci-e 2.0 is just a marketing strategy, i mean in terms of real world performance :). Reality defies everything.
Posted on Reply
#3
Arctic Pidgeon
lol Neliz you obviously an MSI employee, after finding this thread on google i had to join in.

How can you say Gigabytes boards wont work when there is no pcie3 cards yet.
But then your dismissing the news about uefi bios not working with ivy bridge immediately....

hmmm looks like I'm right Mr Dennis Achterberg Product Marketing Officer at MSI - Micro-star International CO., Ltd

http://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisachterberg
Posted on Reply
#4
neliz
MSI Rep
by: Arctic Pidgeon
lol Neliz you obviously an MSI employee, after finding this thread on google i had to join in.

How can you say Gigabytes boards wont work when there is no pcie3 cards yet.
But then your dismissing the news about uefi bios not working with ivy bridge immediately....

hmmm looks like I'm right Mr Dennis Achterberg Product Marketing Officer at MSI - Micro-star International CO., Ltd

http://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisachterberg
1 wow,amazing Google skills
2, there are design rules for 22mm clue and Gen3 that were published long after those boards were designed and manufactured.
3, there are things called test boards and related measurement equipment that for instance Intel, NVIDIA and us use to verify boards, slots, cpu etc.
4, we haven't seen any signs during testing that a uefi update can't continue because there's only one chip. do you really really believe that Intel would want to do a recall on those millions of sandy bridge maonboards out there?

Sent from my HTC
Posted on Reply
#5
Arctic Pidgeon
4) Recall no that would never happen would it.......*Cough* B3 *Cough*
Posted on Reply
#6
tallyhoe
by: neliz
I hate it when I make big mistakes in public :)
:nutkick:
Posted on Reply
#7
neliz
MSI Rep
by: Arctic Pidgeon
4) Recall no that would never happen would it.......*Cough* B3 *Cough*
That was relatively early in the livecycle of Sandy Bridge with a non-fatal issue (though very bothersome.)

Business wise it also doesn't make sense for Microsoft to demand something of mainboards that would limit it only to the latest generation of compatible mainboards.

I.o.w. don't worry.
Posted on Reply
#8
jfk1024
by: neliz
That was relatively early in the livecycle of Sandy Bridge with a non-fatal issue (though very bothersome.)

Business wise it also doesn't make sense for Microsoft to demand something of mainboards that would limit it only to the latest generation of compatible mainboards.

I.o.w. don't worry.
Recall is good just for Gigabyte :)). 22mm is quite big for a fabrication process for cpus, right?
Posted on Reply
#9
jfk1024
by: neliz
1 wow,amazing Google skills
2, there are design rules for 22mm clue and Gen3 that were published long after those boards were designed and manufactured.
3, there are things called test boards and related measurement equipment that for instance Intel, NVIDIA and us use to verify boards, slots, cpu etc.
4, we haven't seen any signs during testing that a uefi update can't continue because there's only one chip. do you really really believe that Intel would want to do a recall on those millions of sandy bridge maonboards out there?

Sent from my HTC
AND... I haven't seen any signs during testing that my pci-e 3.0 GPU is not working with my Ivy Bridge processor on my Gigabyte motherboard better than on your MSI motherboard :banghead:
Posted on Reply
#10
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
AND... I haven't seen any signs during testing that my pci-e 3.0 GPU is not working with my Ivy Bridge processor on my Gigabyte motherboard better than on your MSI motherboard :banghead:
You haven't done testing and I've shown you screenshots.
Posted on Reply
#11
jfk1024
by: neliz
You haven't done testing and I've shown you screenshots.
what screenshots?

The screenshot with the gigabyte motherboard?


Let's make a bet: I bet that the first pci-e 3.0 gpu on the market will have the same performance in real world gaming on fake PCI-e 3.0 gigabyte motherboards as on your MSI real PCI-e 3.0 motherboard
Posted on Reply
#12
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
what screenshots?
Are you actually paying attention to the OP or did you just register to defend Gigabyte? :p



22nm CPUs on GBT boards with the advertised BIOS'es switch DOWN when a Gen3 board is inserted.
Posted on Reply
#13
jfk1024
by: neliz
Are you actually paying attention to the OP or did you just register to defend Gigabyte? :p

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/11-09-07/41i.jpg

22nm CPUs on GBT boards with the advertised BIOS'es switch DOWN when a Gen3 board is inserted.
How sweet, you've tested Gigabyte Motherboards :p. I wonder ... what happens when people from gigabyte will test your cards?
Posted on Reply
#14
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
How sweet, you've tested Gigabyte Motherboards :p. I wonder ... what happens when people from gigabyte will test your cards?
the cards are not ours :) they're from a third party providing boards for Gen3 testing :)

So all we did was get a gigabyte board, put a bios on it that gigabyte advertises and then see if it would actually work as advertised (and required by Intel.)
And you've seen the end result :)
Posted on Reply
#15
dazz
One thing is to know it won't make a difference performance wise in games (but for how long?) and another thing is the flood of angry GB customers reporting seeing in GPU-Z their "PCIe 3.0 ready" slots running at half the speed they expected
Posted on Reply
#16
Arctic Pidgeon
by: neliz
That was relatively early in the livecycle of Sandy Bridge with a non-fatal issue (though very bothersome.)

Business wise it also doesn't make sense for Microsoft to demand something of mainboards that would limit it only to the latest generation of compatible mainboards.

I.o.w. don't worry.
Neliz the uefi issue is not about Microsoft, its about Ivy Bridge support.
So far the news sounds as if intel have made another mistake and UEFI needs a complete re-wipe which according to some news is only able to be done above service or end user level (so a recall or just a stuff it buy the next platform).

The UEFI issue you are talking about sounds like the "Windows 8 NEEDS UEFI" if your saying this is not the case please speak to your counterparts as they are saying you need UEFI for X86 hardware.

This is also incorrect only ARM platforms require UEFI for Win 8.
Posted on Reply
#17
neliz
MSI Rep
by: Arctic Pidgeon

The UEFI issue you are talking about sounds like the "Windows 8 NEEDS UEFI" if your saying this is not the case please speak to your counterparts as they are saying you need UEFI for X86 hardware.

This is also incorrect only ARM platforms require UEFI for Win 8.
I'll tell people from microsoft sending us these roadmaps! :)
Posted on Reply
#18
jfk1024
by: neliz
the cards are not ours :) they're from a third party providing boards for Gen3 testing :)

So all we did was get a gigabyte board, put a bios on it that gigabyte advertises and then see if it would actually work as advertised (and required by Intel.)
And you've seen the end result :)
i will rephrase: I wonder ... what happens when people from gigabyte will test your MSI motherboards?
Posted on Reply
#19
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
i will rephrase: I wonder ... what happens when people from gigabyte will test your MSI motherboards?
Our G3 boards? they'll get full PCI Express 3.0 x16.

How I know? Because (for instance) Intel already tested and certified our boards.

Capiche?
Posted on Reply
#20
jfk1024
by: neliz
Our G3 boards? they'll get full PCI Express 3.0 x16.

How I know? Because Intel already tested and certified our boards.

Capiche?
So, explain me something. Gigabyte made that affirmation before final PCI-e 3.0 adjustments and before having a ivy bridge processor or a pci-e 3.0 GPU? right? Then why attack them?
Posted on Reply
#21
neliz
MSI Rep
by: jfk1024
So, explain me something. Gigabyte made that affirmation before final PCI-e 3.0 adjustments and before having a ivy bridge processor or a pci-e 3.0 GPU? right? Then why attack them?
Gigabyte made that explanation AFTER the final requirements were known.
They retroactively applied this to all older boards, hoping no one would notice. (fool customers, they're really good at it)

Gigabyte probably DOES have an 22nm CPU sample AND PCI-e 3.0 testing cards at the time of the announcement, otherwise they wouldn't have the G1.Sniperv2.

Is it clear for you this way?

(and no, I don't know dazz!)
Posted on Reply
#22
dazz
by: jfk1024
So, explain me something. Gigabyte made that affirmation before final PCI-e 3.0 adjustments and before having a ivy bridge processor or a pci-e 3.0 GPU? right? Then why attack them?
Because their advertisement of Gen.3 ready motherboards with just a BIOS update is misleading at best, and flat out fraudulent at worse
Posted on Reply
#24
jfk1024
by: dazz
Because their advertisement of Gen.3 ready motherboards with just a BIOS update is misleading at best, and flat out fraudulent at worse
Let's wait and see what happens :P. It's better to wait until bulldozer and sandy bridge-e are released and forget about future proof motherboards :confused:
Posted on Reply
#25
jfk1024
by: neliz
Gigabyte made that explanation AFTER the final requirements were known.
They retroactively applied this to all older boards, hoping no one would notice. (fool customers, they're really good at it)

Gigabyte probably DOES have an 22nm CPU sample AND PCI-e 3.0 testing cards at the time of the announcement, otherwise they wouldn't have the G1.Sniperv2.

Is it clear for you this way?

(and no, I don't know dazz!)
no, because Gigabyte made that affirmation before G1.Sniperv2 was released
Posted on Reply
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