Benetanegia660 is not even close to the same segment, worthless comparison.

By August the GTX690 will be 4 months in the market so people wanting to buy that kind of card will probably have bought it already. Enthusiasts are not the kind of people that like to wait several months. And it will most probably be slower than the GTX690 and not be made of same quality components, so $200 will not really make a difference.

I'll have to disagree with you in that one, while i also think august is to late for the 7990, i definitely don't think it will be slower than the gtx690, basically because amd, if wanted could have released it months ago. But they took al this time to improve perf/watt and increase clocks, so it can be faster and consume the same (7970 vs 7970Ghz ed).

alwaysstsRight now they need a more-efficient Tahiti and the drivers all but confirm that is on the very-soon (within a few months or so) agenda.


September/Oct both make sense, and seems doable considering the size one would expect it to be (similar to gk104).

more-efficient tahiti? and a smaller chip?
its only that extra 60mm2 die size(360 vs 300) which in return gives out more than twice the compute power of gk104 while pretty much matching it in gaming and graphical tasts, how is that not efficient? if anything AMD isnt all worried about nvidia as much as they are focused on improving GPGPU to implement on HSA. AMD sure made a good bet if you ask me, you just happen to be looking at the architecture from one aspect and neglecting the other so now wonder you come up with such a conclusion

N3M3515I'll have to disagree with you in that one, while i also think august is to late for the 7990, i definitely don't think it will be slower than the gtx690, basically because amd, if wanted could have released it months ago. But they took al this time to improve perf/watt and increase clocks, so it can be faster and consume the same (7970 vs 7970Ghz ed).

i havent had any problems with my preferance hd7970 that i paid 549 for... i still use it 24/7 at a high OC on Air!... all of you with the gtx680 will NOT see a noticeable differance in FPS than i would....

T4C Fantasyhd6970 $329
hd6950 $249
hd6870 $169
hd6850 $139
hd6790 $129
hd6770 $114
hd6750 $89
hd6670 $59
hd6570 $54
hd6450 $39

so your still wrong about the high end

back when the 7k series wasnt available there was no sku 10-20 dollars apart... it wont happen with the 7k either until the 8k comes out :P so you are WRONG.

That proves exactly my point. Nearly all cards there are less than $20 appart, or a re you blind? WHO cares about what happens with the 2 top end cards? You think you are right because you found a slight hole in an arbitrary hyperbole because of 2 cards? Who was talking about high-end? No one, I was talking about the entire lineup and no matter how much you grasp those straws, I'm 100% right, we don't need so many cards separated by an insignificant price and performance difference.

BenetanegiaThat proves exactly my point. Nearly all cards there are less than $20 appart, or a re you blind? WHO cares about what happens with the 2 top end cards? You think you are right because you found a slight hole in an arbitrary hyperbole because of 2 cards? Who was talking about high-end? No one, I was talking about the entire lineup and no matter how much you grasp those straws, I'm 100% right, we don't need so many cards separated by an insignificant price and performance difference.

that was last generation... it did not look the same when it came out :P everythign depreciates, but prices for gpus will not get into a gap of 10-20 while its still the latest gen

HD6850 $179
HD6870 $239
HD6950 $299
HD6970 $369

6! months later they release the HD6450, HD6670, HD6770, HD6790, HD6930,

HD6450 $59
HD6670 $99
HD6770 $149
HD6790 $179
HD6930 $179 only in russia, china and the ukraine

these were the only SKUs available at the time of release

T4C Fantasythat was last generation... it did not look the same when it came out :P everythign depreciates, but prices for gpus will not get into a gap of 10-20 while its still the latest gen

I'm not discussing "gens". I'm discussing what's available, when it's available. When the HD7970 launched, it didn't make the HD6000 lineup dissapear, if you wanted AMD and wanted anything less than $500 you had to get HD6000, period, because there was nothing more and hence the price was what it was and HD6970 for example that was $330 or close, and it was at that price much sooner than HD7970 launch, well it was never much more than that. Same situation for HD68xx and all other cards. So I don't give a flying fuck about generations, it's what it's available for purchase at any given time and no matter how naive you chose to be, they overcrowd the market on purpose and it's a bad thing for us, because it keeps prices from falling. And the list you posted above is THE PROOF of that. 15+ months after release and they costed nearly the same as when they launched (and I think Nvidia was worse because they were more popular), less than $50 difference, where previous generations would drop to 60% of price or less. BOM definitely drops by that much or more, why don't we get the benefit? Because they control the market with overflooding it that's why.

BenetanegiaI'm not discussing "gens". I'm discussing what's available, when it's available. When the HD7970 launched, it didn't make the HD6000 lineup dissapear, if you wanted AMD and wanted anything less than $500 you had to get HD6000, period, because there was nothing more and hence the price was what it was and HD6970 for example that was $330 or close, and it was at that price much sooner than HD7970 launch, well it was never much more than that. Same situation for HD68xx and all other cards. So I don't give a flying fuck about generations, it's what it's available for purchase at any given time and no matter how naive you chose to be, they overcrowd the market on purpose and it's a bad thing for us, because it keeps prices from falling. And the list you posted above is THE PROOF of that. 15+ months after release and they costed nearly the same as when they launched (and I think Nvidia was worse because they were more popular), less than $50 difference, where previous generations would drop to 60% of price or less. BOM definitely drops by that much or more, why don't we get the benefit? Because they control the market with overflooding it that's why.

its not exactly bad... amd and nvidia are listening to the people and meet their budget needs, not only are they lowering the price of the main sku cards they are releasing more skus... so your point is completely invalid about it being bad for the community when they are both lowering costs and making more. its simple supply and demand... if the people didnt demand the companies wouldnt supply -.-

T4C Fantasyits not exactly bad... amd and nvidia are listening to the people and meet their budget needs, not only are they lowering the price of the main sku cards they are releasing more skus... so your point is compeltely invalid about it being bad for teh community when they are both lowering costs and making more. its simple supply and demand... if the people didnt demand the companies wouldnt supply -.-

Wrong. They are protecting prices of other cards. That's why those cards are always in very low numbers. They are just "fillers". If they were serving the market, because there was a demand for a card like that in a price point like that, they would be in huge quantities. They never are, so it's not drived by supply and demand.

store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

You tell me how many of those kind of cards are there high on the list... None.

They release those cards to protect the price of higher cards. How? Imagine 2 cards at $100 and $150. As usual the faster cards perf/$ is lower, it's 25% faster, while it costs %50 more. So with only those 2 cards what can people do? Either settle for the $100 card or wait until the $150 lowers its price. In both cases, profits lost for the company AND by brute force of capitalism and competing brands the $150 WILL lower its price, since there's more demand for cheaper cards.

So company introduces card 3, at $125 and it's barely faster than the $100 card. But several people will bait, it has a simmilar name as the $150 card, it MUST have something better than the $100 card right? And often times it does have "something", mostly irrelevant for its severely lowered performance, like amount of memory. And so the $150 card does not ever lower it's price much, because the relative perf/$ below it, has been worsened by the $125 card and a good chunk of people wanting more than the $100 card, but who cannot afford $150 card have something to get. Something artificial that is not really better for them, but they spent $125 and NOW, they didn't wait until the innevitable drop on the $150 card. Instant profits for the company. But at least most people know better than that which is demostrated by the low success of such cards. It still works for the company anyway as is demostrated by prices of last couple years.

So it's not a service, not a single HDxx30 has been a good buy overall and has never been in enough quantities as to become a supply/demand force. Same for SE, LE cards or whatever Nvidia calls them.

CAT-THE-FIFTHNvidia says that 28NM wafer pricing is very high this generation:

www.extremetech.com/computing/123529-nvidia-deeply-unhappy-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless

Thanks for that very interesting read, kind of thought that scenario was what we are seeing from other thing and goings on. Didn’t read that back in March, but is telling in what we should expect and neither is immune. I think product cycles for Maxwell (22Nm process parts) or what's after Sea Island's will be extend out closer or into 2014 for these companies to recoupe.
www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/294853,nvidia-claims-that-theres-no-money-in-22nm.aspx

As AMD to offering 6990, I hope they don’t! I'd let AIB’s do the X2’s and price them aggressively in the $700-800 range and just let Nvidia have their Halo product uncontested.

The "GHz Edition" 7970… yea with improved low leakage gates will make it the part AMD thought they’d get when it was designed and they’ll price it $480 MSRP.
7950’s will be bumped to the 925Mhz, still with 28 CU’s at $430
7930’s will get clocked at whatever the AIB’s feel, but CU’s probably cut to 24CUs... pricing $380. Though I don't know how aggressive AMD could get with their pricing past that, because face it Nvidia and the de-contented GTX670 PCB/components has the advantage. AMD’s not looking to push Nvidia on price, because if Nvidia can start harvesting enough chips they and their AIB's could easily respond on price.

While 7870 are right now between $320-350, so no conflict till competition arrives.

BenetanegiaWrong. They are protecting prices of other cards. That's why those cards are always in very low numbers. They are just "fillers". If they were serving the market, because there was a demand for a card like that in a price point like that, they would be in huge quantities. They never are, so it's not drived by supply and demand.

store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

You tell me how many of those kind of cards are there high on the list... None.

They release those cards to protect the price of higher cards. How? Imagine 2 cards at $100 and $150. As usual the faster cards perf/$ is lower, it's 25% faster, while it costs %50 more. So with only those 2 cards what can people do? Either settle for the $100 card or wait until the $150 lowers its price. In both cases, profits lost for the company AND by brute force of capitalism and competing brands the $150 WILL lower its price, since there's more demand for cheaper cards.

So company introduces card 3, at $125 and it's barely faster than the $100 card. But several people will bait, it has a simmilar name as the $150 card, it MUST have something better than the $100 card right? And often times it does have "something", mostly irrelevant for its severely lowered performance, like amount of memory. And so the $150 card does not ever lower it's price much, because the relative perf/$ below it, has been worsened by the $125 card and a good chunk of people wanting more than the $100 card, but who cannot afford $150 card have something to get. Something artificial that is not really better for them, but they spent $125 and NOW, they didn't wait until the innevitable drop on the $150 card. Instant profits for the company. But at least most people know better than that which is demostrated by the low success of such cards. It still works for the company anyway as is demostrated by prices of last couple years.

So it's not a service, not a single HDxx30 has been a good buy overall and has never been in enough quantities as to become a supply/demand force. Same for SE, LE cards or whatever Nvidia calls them.

that list is completely flawed, not even i use steam to game, steam is probably only 3% of the entire pc gaming community haha

its supply and demand trust me.

T4C Fantasythat list is completely flawed, not even i use steam to game, steam is probably only 3$ of the entire pc gaming community haha

its supply and demand trust me.

Wow, that's so wrong that I don't know where to start.

There's well over 40 million active user accounts and because of this large sample abse, its survey is the most accurate you can find regarding gaming cards. It's not accurate to compare low end versus high end, but at same price point its completely accurate.

And last year digital game sales were 48% of total gaming sales. And the metric was revenue if I'm not mistaken, which due to lower prices on digital means even more digital sales than retail. 70% of those sales were through Steam. Steam is HUGE.

BenetanegiaWow, that's so wrong that I don't know where to start.

There's well over 40 million active user accounts and because of this large sample abse, its survey is the most accurate you can find regarding gaming cards. It's not accurate to compare low end versus high end, but at same price point its completely accurate.

And last year digital game sales were 48% of total gaming sales. And the metric was revenue if I'm not mistaken, which due to lower prices on digital means even more digital sales than retail. 70% of those sales were through Steam. Steam is HUGE.

really? because the hd7670 says 0.00% and my moms boyfriends son has one and has steam... so yes flawed :)

only 40 million? theres over 400 million gamers so sorry im wrong.. 10% use steam xD

ATI Radeon HD 6250 0.00% 0.00% 0.18% 0.24% 0.22% -0.02% <- filler card
ATI Radeon HD 6310 0.00% 0.02% 0.64% 0.78% 0.76% -0.02% <- filler card
ATI Radeon HD 6320 0.02% 0.00% 0.30% 0.36% 0.40% +0.04% <- filler card
ATI Radeon HD 6450 0.08% 0.06% 0.70% 0.72% 0.78% +0.06% <- filler card
ATI Radeon HD 6570 0.16% 0.16% 0.58% 0.56% 0.64% +0.08%
ATI Radeon HD 6670 0.16% 0.24% 0.76% 0.80% 0.86% +0.06%
ATI Radeon HD 6750 0.10% 0.10% 0.24% 0.24% 0.26% +0.02%
ATI Radeon HD 6770 0.54% 0.48% 1.08% 1.10% 1.14% +0.04%
ATI Radeon HD 6850 1.72% 2.06% 2.94% 2.80% 2.78% -0.02%
ATI Radeon HD 6870 2.14% 2.52% 3.24% 3.14% 3.18% +0.04%
ATI Radeon HD 6950 2.60% 2.62% 2.86% 2.78% 2.72% -0.06%
ATI Radeon HD 6970 1.12% 1.24% 1.24% 1.18% 1.20% +0.02%
ATI Radeon HD 6990 0.14% 0.24% 0.20% 0.18% 0.16% -0.02%

ATI Radeon HD 7950 0.00% 0.02% 0.14% 0.14% 0.20% +0.06%
ATI Radeon HD 7970 0.04% 0.22% 0.34% 0.36% 0.46% +0.10%

NVIDIA GeForce GT 520 0.22% 0.32% 0.88% 0.90% 0.98% +0.08% <- filler card
NVIDIA GeForce GT 530 0.00% 0.04% 0.40% 0.42% 0.44% +0.02% <- filler card
NVIDIA GeForce GT 545 0.04% 0.04% 0.22% 0.22% 0.24% +0.02% <-- filler card
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 1.60% 1.72% 3.16% 3.20% 3.50% +0.30%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 555 0.00% 0.00% 0.04% 0.08% 0.10% +0.02% <- filler card
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 5.82% 6.86% 8.80% 8.62% 8.90% +0.28%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 2.54% 2.96% 3.30% 3.16% 3.22% +0.06%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 2.36% 2.54% 2.82% 2.58% 2.64% +0.06%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590 0.26% 0.30% 0.32% 0.30% 0.30%

im not listing the 680 because it doesnt have enough time since release to build up % so its compromised however..

this is from your steam list.. more people use hd7970 than a 7950 which shows people will spend the 90! dollars more for the 70

what i have proved here is that there IS a demand for the supply of all filler models

T4C Fantasyreally? because the hd7670 says 0.00% and my moms boyfriends son has one and has steam... so yes flawed :)

only 40 million? theres over 400 million gamers so sorry im wrong.. 10% use steam xD

ATI Radeon HD 6850 1.72% 2.06% 2.94% 2.80% 2.78% -0.02%

ATI Radeon HD 6870 2.14% 2.52% 3.24% 3.14% 3.18% +0.04%

ATI Radeon HD 6950 2.60% 2.62% 2.86% 2.78% 2.72% -0.06%

ATI Radeon HD 6970 1.12% 1.24% 1.24% 1.18% 1.20% +0.02%

ATI Radeon HD 6990 0.14% 0.24% 0.20% 0.18% 0.16% -0.02%

ATI Radeon HD 7950 0.00% 0.02% 0.14% 0.14% 0.20% +0.06%

ATI Radeon HD 7970 0.04% 0.22% 0.34% 0.36% 0.46% +0.10%


NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 1.60% 1.72% 3.16% 3.20% 3.50% +0.30%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 5.82% 6.86% 8.80% 8.62% 8.90% +0.28%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 2.54% 2.96% 3.30% 3.16% 3.22% +0.06%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 2.36% 2.54% 2.82% 2.58% 2.64% +0.06%

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590 0.26% 0.30% 0.32% 0.30% 0.30%

im not listing the 680 because it doesnt have enough time since release to build up % so its compromised however..

this is from your steam list.. more people use hd7970 than a 7950 which shows people will spend the 90! dollars more for the 70

what i have proved here is that there IS a deman for the supply of all filler models

Wow man get a clue. 400 million gamers? :laugh:

You didn't list a single filler card. They are all the ones (1-2 per segment per brand) that I said are legitimate. That is the full chip card + harvested chip part to improve yields (if necessary, which is not always the case).

And I have no clue what the HD7970 vs HD7950 comment is trying to say. Never said people are not willing to pay more for a faster card.

Benetanegiastore.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

Someone correct me if i'm wrong but if i'm reading this survey correctly.

The ATI HD 5770 is the single most popular card :confused: :twitch: :eek:

XzibitSomeone correct me if i'm wrong but if i'm reading this survey correctly.

The ATI HD 5770 is the single most popular card :confused: :twitch: :eek:

It's a great card so I don't see why not. The 460 and 560 is more popular though.

BenetanegiaWow man get a clue. 400 million gamers? :laugh:

You didn't list a single filler card. They are all the ones (1-2 per segment per brand) that I said are legitimate. That is the full chip card + harvested chip part to improve yields (if necessary, which is not always the case).

And I have no clue what the HD7970 vs HD7950 comment is trying to say. Never said people are not willing to pay more for a faster card.

most filler cards govern according to that list atleast 0.50% sales which means that is 200,000! gamers demanding those cards... sorry but you are wrong on this one. 200k is relevient and according to that list 40,000 people use the GTX 555 a Filler card. do the math 40,000,000 steam users, the 555 is 0.10%

T4C Fantasyonly 40 million? theres over 400 million gamers so sorry im wrong.. 10% use steam xD

Proof or GTFO imo. Steam is a huge majority, if not monopoly of PC gaming.

DippyskoodlezProof or GTFO imo. Steam is a huge majority, if not monopoly of PC gaming.

the pirate bay is proof. enough said. those people are not steam users xD

pc monopoly for online play... there is SO MANY more offline gamers on PC its not even funny

oh and facebook dwarfs steam like a petty dingleberry... games are games no matter how competitive and boring.

steam holds no ground over overall pc gaming, you need to split it into catagories... Hardcore pc gaming or Enthusiast pc gaming... normal pc gaming? there are more elderly people playing solitaire on windows then there is steam users.

XzibitSomeone correct me if i'm wrong but if i'm reading this survey correctly.

The ATI HD 5770 is the single most popular card :confused: :twitch: :eek:

Best Buy sold a ton of them to armchair computer users.

T4C Fantasythe pirate bay is proof. enough said. those people are not steam users xD

pc monopoly for online play... there is SO MANY more offline gamers on PC its not even funny

oh and facebook dwarfs steam like a petty dingleberry... games are games no matter how competitive and boring.

steam holds no ground over overall pc gaming, you need to split it into catagories... Hardcore pc gaming or Enthusiast pc gaming... normal pc gaming? there are more elderly people playing solitaire on windows then there is steam users.

Meh, you're making an argument out of a non-argument. There's currently (right now) 4.5million people playing games on steam. Facebook as zero to do with Steam. Your splitting into categories makes no sense... well.. You're just making no sense to me at all to be honest.

Lastly, what does any of this have to do with three new GPU's from AMD? Perhaps this conversation should be had elsewhere.

erockerBest Buy sold a ton of them to armchair computer users.



Meh, you're making an argument out of a non-argument. There's currently (right now) 4.5million people playing games on steam. Facebook as zero to do with Steam. Your splitting into categories makes no sense... well.. You're just making no sense to me at all to be honest.

hes talking about steam being the pc gaming monopoly meaning its the source all gamers go to for games... make sense now? lol

T4C Fantasyhes talking about steam being the pc gaming monopoly meaning its the source all gamers go to for games... make sense now? lol

You need to realize there is a difference between "majority" and "all gamers". Regardless, keep on topic.

XzibitSomeone correct me if i'm wrong but if i'm reading this survey correctly.

The ATI HD 5770 is the single most popular card :confused: :twitch: :eek:

Like Frick said why wouldn't it be the most popular? It once was the most popular, not now tho.

T4C Fantasymost filler cards govern according to that list atleast 0.50% sales which means that is 200,000! gamers demanding those cards... sorry but you are wrong on this one. 200k is relevient

Correction. That's 200k people who were fooled and bought those cards. But the non filler cards sold much more, so that is a clear sign of very very low supply and demand for those cards. Fact: HD5870, HD5850, despite costing a lot more sold 10x more than HD5830 and obviously the 5770 sold much more because of its price. Don't look at the most recent results, it's skewed because many HD5870 and 5850 users changed their cards recently, look at the progression. In January 7.94% had 5770, 4.94% had 5850 and 5870 4.20%, HD5830 0.58%. Natural progression in 5870>5850>5770 as price is lower, more sales and the HD5830 which should have landed somewhere in beween HD5770 and 5850... puff.

T4C Fantasyyes but a majority is still not a true fact.... 10% of gamers would be a minority lol

Ultimately the % of gamers that Steam represents is absolutely irrelevant and so is the definition of what a gamer is*. 40 million people is a very large and statistically accurate sample base, if there's ever been one. People who play on Steam are just as likely to buy one card as another gamer, so it's completely valid.

* BTW if you find me someone who spent $200+ on a card to play Solitaire and Farmville, please do place me in contact with him/her, such a fool must be unique on it's kind.

BenetanegiaLike Frick said why wouldn't it be the most popular? It once was the most popular, not now tho.



Correction. That's 200k people who were fooled and bought those cards. But the non filler cards sold much more, so that is a clear sign of very very low supply and demand for those cards. Fact: HD5870, HD5850, despite costing a lot more sold 10x more than HD5830 and obviously the 5770 sold much more because of its price. Don't look at the most recent results, it's skewed because many HD5870 and 5850 users changed their cards recently, look at the progression. In January 7.94% had 5770, 4.94% had 5850 and 5870 4.20%, HD5830 0.58%. Natural progression in 5870>5850>5770 as price is lower, more sales and the HD5830 which should have landed somewhere in beween HD5770 and 5850... puff.

fooled or not there is still a demand for them lol and 200k is still enough to say that it is enough... thats alot of people, a high school has roughly 1,000~5,000 students.... put that in perspective

and i only roughly estimated the % of an individual filler card... add them all up it would be 3.92%, 1,568,000 filler card users ONLY from what i listed. <-- this information actually would be a valid point to use against someone who says that filler cards are not in high demand... this thread is about 1 of the skus being a filler card.

Such a steam rollered thread.

On topic.

August isn't really too late for the 7990 if it ships in quantity at reasonable price. The GTX 690 really doesn't exist in sales terms. At 5 of the major UK online retailers, there is one model in stock at one site. It's not because they're flying off shelves, it's because they're not on the shelves to begin with.

I'm interested in seeing the 7970 GHz reviews. Also to see if the 12.6 App profiles have helped the crossfire shittiness that is AMD. I was looking to go down the route of two 670's but I may instead buy another 7970 if the scaling is good (and it seems to be so).

T4C Fantasyfooled or not there is still a demand for them lol and 200k is still enough to say that it is enough... thats alot of people, a high school has roughly 1,000~5,000 students.... put that in perspective

and i only roughly estimated the % of an individual filler card... add them al lup it would be around 600k filler card users

No you need to put some perspective into it. First of all 200k people is next to nothing in a platform with 40 million people and in a 7 billion people world. Secodly, those 200.000 would have been much much better off buying the HD5770 for $150 than HD5830 for $250+. Performance was really close, price wasn't.

Alternatively they could have paid $300 for the 5850 which would have given them 30% more performance, so yeah, things really need to be put into perspective.