Monday, March 11th 2013

Lynx Point USB 3.0 Controller Issue Correction Needs New Hardware

The issue with USB 3.0 controllers integrated into Intel's upcoming "Lynx Point" 8-series core logic can be addressed only with new hardware (modifying the silicon), according to a new Hardware.info report. Intel decided against delaying launch of the 4th generation Core "Haswell" family to address the issue, and instead opted to address it in a future revision of the chipset.

A design flaw causes devices connected to Lynx Point's integrated USB 3.0 controller to be disconnected when the system wakes up from S3 (suspend-to-RAM), forcing users to reconnect them. This could mean you'd have to mount your USB 3.0 hard-drives/flash-drives again, although no data is lost. If you're editing files stores on such a storage device, you might have to save your work before the system is put to S3 sleep.

In 2011, Intel launched its 6-series "Cougar Point" core logic that drove its first LGA1155 processors based on the "Sandy Bridge" architecture; with a faulty SATA 3 Gb/s controller, that warranted a general recall and replacement with 6-series Rev 3.0 chipset. This particular issue is classified by Intel as more of an irritant than a major flaw. It remains to be seen how it affects early adoption of the platform.Source: Hardware.info
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54 Comments on Lynx Point USB 3.0 Controller Issue Correction Needs New Hardware

#1
Dj-ElectriC
What's next time intel?! Faulty PCI-E slots?!

[/anger&sadness]
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#2
Kaynar
I will still buy and not use S3 if the price is lower than Z77.
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#3
hckngrtfakt
Well, Intel made it just much more easier to justify skipping this upcoming generation :shadedshu
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#4
Tigerfox
Shit, I'm totally waiting for S1150 since I wan't to upgrade already (still using an Athlon 64 X2 AM2, impossible to upgrade to phenom, wanted to upgrade first with sandy, then Ivy but postponed due to lack of time).

How can a big company like Intel with a product planned so far ahead an with so little change (USB3.0 is the same as in Z77) still produce such maior errors. And what's more, they handle them like the were nothing. With Cougar point it was a problem for the mobo manufacturers and was totally irritating to bur a P67 Board, knowing you would have to exchange it soon.

I will still buy S1150 Z87 but I'll wait until the issue is resolved.
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#5
PopcornMachine
Don't know why anyone would buy these motherboards until they fix the hardware issue.

Kind of makes me wonder what else did they miss?
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#6
ironwolf
If the only issue seems to be over the S3, someone like myself, who never puts a system in any form of sleep/hibernate, would seemingly be OK? I'm still kicking an i7-920/Radeon 5870 and got that pesky upgrade itch going.
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#7
Akrian
Yeah Intel's Logic:

1. We know that there is a design flaw
2. We know that this flaw will casuse this malfunction
3. We know that in advance, and technically we could suckup, take the hit, and fix the problem with minimal-ish delay
4. Will we do it ?
5. Nope, sell defective product to the masses, they will surely appreciate it.
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#9
Delta6326
by: btarunr
A design flaw causes devices connected to Lynx Point's integrated USB 3.0 controller to be disconnected when the system wakes up from S3 (suspend-to-RAM), forcing users to reconnect them. This could mean you'd have to mount your USB 3.0 hard-drives/flash-drives again, although no data is lost. If you're editing files stores on such a storage device, you might have to save your work before the system is put to S3 sleep.
1. First off if your going into sleep mode I would always save my work.
2. this really isn't a big deal for me the only usb plugged in is my mouse and keyboard. I never leave my external HDD plugged in, only when I need it.
3. Can't people just disable S3 and use a different S state?
4. Would safely removing a device before putting it in sleep mode fix this? but leave it still plugged in.
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#10
syeef
Who would be stupid enough to buy this?

The very idea that I have a faulty chip in my room won't allow me to sleep soundly.
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#11
NeoXF
Considering I use external USB-connected storage A LOT and have my PC powered/needed to fast boot (or come back from suspend)... this is a pretty big deal to me, almost huge...

If this takes too long to fix and/or I hear no concrete news about mainstream 6-cores Broadwells or DDR4 by autumn... Steamroller, here I come!
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#12
joyman
If this will affect notebooks then nice one Intel... have to reconnect my mouse every time wake up from hibernation... See some stupid people created nano adapters so we don't do this sh1t every time. Minor flaw, but still annoying one. But still I cannot see any benefit from using sleep on a desktop computer. It boots for about 10-30 sec so where is the point in sleep/hibernation ? My new notebook might not get haswell after all or should we call it haswrong ?
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#13
swaaye
The problem is fixing silicon requires many months of time. You don't have to buy anything until they fix it.

Other companies just release shit that's broken and try to cover it up with software fixes and performance-killing workarounds. You know, like NVIDIA, AMD and VIA chipsets. At least Intel is open about it.
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#14
zsolt_93
Use USB 2 for those peripherals like mouses or keyboards. Surely it will have few of those ports too. Or in 2.0 mode it won't present the error in laptops. Not many people had problems with the latest chipset issue last time as those sata ports were left unused by the manufacturers.
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#15
SaltyFish
For people who don't use the S3 state and/or don't have USB 3 devices, meh. At least they didn't botch floating-point division again.

For everyone else, it's time to wait for Broadwell... or until AMD can put out something comparable to Haswell.
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#16
badtaylorx
what will bug me is if intel refuses to factor this into pricing...
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#17
chodaboy19
They said it's broken, it's your personal choice to buy it or wait until a fix is released. Plain and simple. :)
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#18
repman244
Intel you're doing it wrong...you need to call it a feature!
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#19
Steven B
fact is that it is easy to replace a chipset, not only that the boards are 3 months off, this just hurts the mobo makers b/c they can't ship out earlier.
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#20
HumanSmoke
by: PopcornMachine
Don't know why anyone would buy these motherboards until they fix the hardware issue.
Unfortunately, shit happens, and the buying public generally could care less for the most part. I seen a number of instances where people didn't bother to warranty replace their B1/B2 P67 board with a B3 revision- either out of apathy, or because on the balance of the issue, it wasn't worth the effort.
AMD and mobo vendors had/has a raft of similar problems with the SB950 southbridge- except that the issues are non-detection of USB2.0 devices after resuming from S3/S4, system resets that don't reset the USB controllers causing BSoD's, and data cache errors.
Even with these known issues, buyers still shell out for the 990X/FX/970 boards.
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#21
Seyumi
What exactly the faulty and needs a revision? The CPU(s) or the motherboard(s)?
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#22
Delta6326
by: Seyumi
What exactly the faulty and needs a revision? The CPU(s) or the motherboard(s)?
The USB 3.0 controller on the CPU. I think, but maybe not.
If its Lynx I would think it's on Motherboards, but sense they said Haswell I would think CPU.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure. I thought Motherboards at first, but when they say " Intel's upcoming "Lynx Point" 8-series core logic" It makes me think it's a CPU problem.

EDIT: more about Lynx http://www.techpowerup.com/160702/Intel-quot-Lynx-Point-quot-8-series-Chipset-Detailed-Completely-SATA-6-Gb-s.html
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#23
sergionography
by: Seyumi
What exactly the faulty and needs a revision? The CPU(s) or the motherboard(s)?
haswell is a SOC so its most likely on the cpu
and its too late for intel to fix this because they already started ramping up haswell production a long time ago lol, so they would need to get rid of a huge number of chips, or disable usb3.0 and sell these chips as pentiums and celerons lol
not to mention after the problem is fixed on paper it takes over a month for a wafer to be ready
and the last thing intel wants to do is release haswell at the same time as kaveri and steamroller
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#24
Tigerfox
The news talks about Lynx Point which is the codename for the new chipset series (Z87, H87, B85 etc.). Since the xHCI-Controller sits there, it's the Chipset which needs a revision. However, there are indeed a couple of SoC Haswells with Chipset on pacage, which could be affected aswell.
Considering how fast they offered Cougar Point Rev.B3 to fix the SATA-Bug, this shouldn't take that much time. Intel stating they will stick to the shedule could also mean they'll fix it but it won't hurt the shedule, since the release of Haswell depends not on technology but purely marketing shedule to better sell off ivy and sandy.
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#25
jihadjoe
There's not too much difference between S2 and S3, but I wonder if this will affect Hybrid sleep transitioning to S4. Pretty sucky for mobile users, which is where I envision Intel was targetting Haswell.

Desktop I imagine should be pretty much unaffected. They'll either be ON, OFF or maybe in S4 Hibernate. I've never seen anyone use the normal S2/S3 save-to-RAM sleep modes for desktop.
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