Sunday, August 18th 2013

HWBot No Longer Accepts Record Submissions from Windows 8

HWBot announced that it no longer accepts benchmark record submissions from PCs running Windows 8. It discovered that the way Windows 8 handles real-time clock (RTC), compromises the veracity of benchmark results. HWBot announced that is looking into possible solutions for the problem, and till such a time, it won't accept benchmark result submissions from Windows 8 PCs. This decision could affect leaderboards and records set using Windows 8 benches, and could greatly stunt adoption of the operating system among the professional overclocking community. A statement by HWBot reads;
As the result of weekend-time research, the HWBOT staff has decided to invalidate all benchmark records established with the Windows8 operating system. Due to severe validity problems with the Windows8 real time clock ("RTC"), benchmarks results achieved with Windows8 cannot be trusted. The main problem lies with the RTC being affected when over- or underclocking under the operating system. The operating system uses the RTC as reference clock, and benchmarks use it to reference (benchmark) time.
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81 Comments on HWBot No Longer Accepts Record Submissions from Windows 8

#1
Nabarun
Gr8! Microsoft needs to get slapped every now and then.
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#2
jateruy
the problem is all about HPET in Windows 8
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#3
hellrazor
The main problem lies with the RTC being affected when over- or underclocking under the operating system.
I thought that these problems were solved decades ago.
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#4
Sp33d Junki3
Win7 was tested over time to work. I saw many upgrade from 7 to 8, and was pointless.
Win8 is garbage on PC, tablets is fine.
I'll stick with Win7 till I can no longer benefit from it.
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#5
remixedcat
How far off does that make the results from that compared to win7?

Like how much are the benches altered due to that?
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#6
Jorge
Wow, a real big deal over "leaderboard" results". Who frigging cares about leaderboard results? The fact that Win 8 sucks and few people are buying it speaks volumes. I'm seeing more and more laptop makers and even some desktop PC suppliers offering these PCs with Win 7 because consumers are refusing to accept Win 8 - and for good reason because it sucks.
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#7
MxPhenom 216
Corsair Fanboy
I never bothered with doing anything on HWBot anyways. I am running Windows 8 right now, and haven't looked back. Good OS, the fuss about it is so overdone. It does everything better, except for maybe the UI, but even then UI isn't nearly as overbearing as people love to make it out to be.
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#8
remixedcat
by: MxPhenom 216
I never bothered with doing anything on HWBot anyways. I am running Windows 8 right now, and haven't looked back. Good OS, the fuss about it is so overdone. It does everything better, except for maybe the UI, but even then UI isn't nearly as overbearing as people love to make it out to be.
I do like the improvements in the UI actually.
  • The file transfer dialog finally makes sense with the speed graph
  • The Task manager is improved greatly
  • Built-In ISO mounting/burning
  • Hyper-v
  • Improved explorer UI. The ribbon is so much easier to do a lot of file ops on
  • Very fast boot
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#9
MxPhenom 216
Corsair Fanboy
by: remixedcat
I do like the improvements in the UI actually.
  • The file transfer dialog finally makes sense with the speed graph
  • The Task manager is improved greatly
  • Built-In ISO mounting/burning
  • Hyper-v
  • Improved explorer UI. The ribbon is so much easier to do a lot of file ops on
  • Very fast boot

Agreed, and I do like the start screen now after I got all the icons that is in the normal start menu on the screen, and all the stuff that is pre-pinned to the start screen is gone, and no more live titles. Its nice. Windows 8.1 is even better since it makes the start screen more of an overlay to the desktop rather then a whole new screen.
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#10
lZKoce
by: Jorge
Wow, a real big deal over "leaderboard" results". Who frigging cares about leaderboard results? The fact that Win 8 sucks and few people are buying it speaks volumes. I'm seeing more and more laptop makers and even some desktop PC suppliers offering these PCs with Win 7 because consumers are refusing to accept Win 8 - and for good reason because it sucks.
That's like saying vanila icecream is better than chocolade icecream. You can't prove anything with that "argument". You don't like Win 8- it's all good, but that doesn't mean it "sucks". I've been using it since launch and I dig the Metro interface. Its on par with Boot-to-screen for me. It doesn't criple my productivity.
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#11
MxPhenom 216
Corsair Fanboy
by: lZKoce
That's like saying vanila icecream is better than chocolade icecream. You can't prove anything with that "argument". You don't like Win 8- it's all good, but that doesn't mean it "sucks". I've been using it since launch and I dig the Metro interface. Its on par with Boot-to-screen for me. It doesn't criple my productivity.
Hes probably never tried it haha. I know quite a few people personally who ripped Windows 8 a new one when it released, and then I forced them to try it out either on my own machine or a VM on theirs and they were surprised to find it was not nearly as bad as they thought. :laugh:
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#12
Mathragh
I've also been using win8 from the start, and so has basically everyone in my direct environment. The only truly annoying parts of win8 might be the shut down option, which is hidden behind too many clicks, and the flak you get from basically everyone who didn't try it but has a strong negative opinion about it anyway. Quite sad actually! Apart from that, it's the best OS I've used.

On topic though, what does this "fault" in win8 actually mean? Is it that you could potentially score better with a supposedly lower clock? And where else could one notice anything about this so called "fault"?

The only thing I noticed myself when it comes to clocks in win8 is that it doesn't seem to detect any changes in bus speed. So for an instance my CPU shows as running at 3,70Ghz in task manager and performance index, while I'm actually running at 4,56Ghz because of an overclocked bus speed.

Edit: also, the poll doesn't have a "I'm already on win8 and: I do care/ I don't care".
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#13
Massman
by: remixedcat
How far off does that make the results from that compared to win7?

Like how much are the benches altered due to that?
6% underclock at runtime gives these altered benchmark results.



The higher scores are completely meaningless, because the time measured is incorrect. One second on-system is, after downclock, more than one second. In the case of the adjustment from 130MHz to 122MHz, 1sec on-system is 1.06557377049sec in real time.
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#14
Massman
by: Mathragh
On topic though, what does this "fault" in win8 actually mean? Is it that you could potentially score better with a supposedly lower clock? And where else could one notice anything about this so called "fault"?
Windows Clock is affected as well. After 5 minutes, the clock is lagging 18 seconds behind already.

Windows8 Time Machine - YouTube
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#15
Mathragh
by: Massman
Windows Clock is affected as well. After 5 minutes, the clock is lagging 18 seconds behind already.

Windows8 Time Machine - YouTube
Oh wow, quite serious then. Thanks for that info!
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#17
james888
This seems pretty trivial to fix. I figure MS will release a patch in the coming weeks/months.
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#18
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Microsoft will have to determine if the problem is in Haswell (like Opteron/X2 processors) or if it is in their code. If it is in their code, they'll release a hotfix for it. If it is in Haswell, Intel will likely release a hotfix on their end.
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#19
xvi
I'd be curious to know if simply setting compatibility mode on the executable will allow HWBot submissions (and themes turned off for the screenshot too, I suppose)
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#20
maverik-sg1
It's only for benchmark heroes, it's not like it's anything serious enough to really say Windows 8 is dead.

The thing with the benchmarking of course is that they all look for software optimisations outside of the standard operating package of any benchmark - in fact the tweaks made to software and operating systems goes beyond optimising the hardware itself, there's very little real world comparisons to the top scores and what would be achievable simply by overclocking.

That's not to say it's not a skill or an art, what these people do is mighty impressive - even if you remove extreme cooling, it's just completely divorced from reality to a point that this change really make no difference (because everyone who's into benchmarking would of realised this optimisation and would of used it up until now at some point).
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#21
Fourstaff
by: FordGT90Concept
Microsoft will have to determine if the problem is in Haswell (like Opteron/X2 processors) or if it is in their code. If it is in their code, they'll release a hotfix for it. If it is in Haswell, Intel will likely release a hotfix on their end.
If its Haswell then surely Windows 7 will be affected too? I haven't heard reports about win7 problems.
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#23
Nabarun
Some people just don't want to admit that their expensive new toy is just a piece of crap.
Edit: "The grapes are sour"... :D
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#24
Mathragh
by: Nabarun
Some people just don't want to admit that their expensive new toy is just a piece of crap.
What does this have to do with,,.. anything here? =D
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#25
Assimilator
by: FordGT90Concept
Microsoft will have to determine if the problem is in Haswell (like Opteron/X2 processors) or if it is in their code. If it is in their code, they'll release a hotfix for it. If it is in Haswell, Intel will likely release a hotfix on their end.
Where do you get this being a Haswell problem? According to HWBot,

by: HWBot

Sparing you the details of development process, compared to Windows7 and previous versions, Microsoft made changes to how it measures time to be compatible with embedded or low cost PCs that do not have a fixed RTC clock. After all, having a fixed RTC clock adds cost to a platform.
It's an issue with Win8, pure and simple. Not sure why MS didn't simply write code to say
if (system.hasHardwareRtc()) {
useHardwareRtc();
}
else {
useSoftwareEmulatedRtc();
}
I'm sure we will see a fix for this next Patch Tuesday, if not sooner, as an accurate RTC is critical to many applications working correctly, not just benchmarks.
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