So doing the same for less? So little maxwell is just really really efficient kepler.

960 cores, over 1GHz gpu speed, 28nm for only 75W? If this is true then Nvidia did a little miracle here with Maxwell. The funny thing is that, if 75Ws are true, there is no reason for someone to buy a hi end card today. Either an AMD one or an Nvidia one. Even 790 or the new Titan will be old news before we even see a review of them. 6-9 months life at best for any card over $500 before it is obsolete. Because think Maxwell at 20nm.

john_960 cores, over 1GHz gpu speed, 28nm for only 75W? If this is true then Nvidia did a little miracle here with Maxwell.

75W is good for laptops too. What was the power consumption for a similar performance Kepler card?

Big_Vulture75W is good for laptops too. What was the power consumption for a similar performance Kepler card?

Between 114Ws (GTX 650ti - 768cores, 128bit, 928MHz) and 140Ws (GTX 660 - 960cores, 192bit, 980Mhz), I think closer to that 140W.
Looking at 700 series, GTX 760 is at 170W with "only" 192 more cores, 256bit data bus and 980MHz gpu speed.

james888So doing the same for less? So little maxwell is just really really efficient kepler.

It's definitely more power efficient. The specs they give for the GK106 are from the 660. From the leaked benchmarks it doesn't compete with it rather the 650 Ti

Big_Vulture75W is good for laptops too. What was the power consumption for a similar performance Kepler card?

110w or 134w depending where it performs

VideoCardzThe footprint on power consumption will be dramatically lower than any Kepler GPU. In fact, most GeForce GTX 750 series cards will not require any power connectors, but of course there some with 6-pin installed.

Need more clarity on this. Reference design might not need a 6-Pin but AIBs will have them ?

Big_Vulture75W is good for laptops too. What was the power consumption for a similar performance Kepler card?

Judging by the 3DMark11 scores ( 5963 for the 750 Ti), it comes in very close to the GTX 680M

75W at this performance makes its really worthy and easy to put 2 of those on the same PCB, unless its not cost effective because it can be overpriced... we are talking about nvidia here.

Kaynar75W at this performance makes its really worthy and easy to put 2 of those on the same PCB, unless its not cost effective because it can be overpriced... we are talking about nvidia here.

The problem with the two cards idea is that Nvidia cut out the SLi support in the cheaper cards. Don't expect SLi support with these cards.
Didn't read correctly the part about "same PCB". I don't expect something like that anyway.

john_The problem with the two cards idea is that Nvidia cut out the SLi support in the cheaper cards. Don't expect SLi support with these cards.
Didn't read correctly the part about "same PCB". I don't expect something like that anyway.

Asus put two mid range GTX760 cores on the same PCB, so I was thinking they might do it again with these but at a very convenient price, and not $600+.

KaynarAsus put two mid range GTX760 cores on the same PCB, so I was thinking they might do it again with these but at a very convenient price, and not $600+.

Yes I realized what you where saying but, later, after posting. The problem with 750 is that it wouldn't support(I guess) SLi, so, is it possible to put two gpus that they possibly don't support SLi on the same PCB?
The fact that a card like this might cost about $250, maybe it wouldn't make it financially viable. Also it doesn't offer much as a publicity stunt. ASUS's card was fast enough to be advertised as "faster than Titan" this might be faster than 760 and with less power consumption, but not something that someone would be interested in buying. A single gpu is always preferable.

I can see clearly now that these GPUs are made for incoming slew of steam machines running on cheap TFX 150W PSUs

XzibitNeed more clarity on this. Reference design might not need a 6-Pin but AIBs will have them ?

Being 75 watts is all PCI-e provides. would be a 6pin pci-e for it cause boost clock will put it over 75.

That new die size is much better suited to have ROI than the GK106 ever was for them! The 750 will be the 75W part, while the 750Ti could be as high as 110W.

So slighty smaller than the Bonaire XTX, with it's 115W TDP, and by the Fire Strike above much like a reference R7 260X.

Look at that valley score, this will compete with 7790 and maybe 260x at best.

Valley is the worst one by a long shot. The above scores vary 70-96% of the GTX 660. I'm guessing with real games with usable settings, it does better than what the Valley benchmark suggests. Push it, and 2/3 ROPs and 2/3 vram width shine through with a 70% result.

CasecutterThat new die size is much better suited to have ROI than the GK106 ever was for them! The 750 will be the 75W part, while the 750Ti could be as high as 110W.

FFS, how about dialling down the FUD for a change.
From the Videocardz link bta linked to, it clearly shows that the fully enabled (960 shader) die is ~75W. You also posted on the previous articlewhere the original SweClockers linkbta provided clearly stated:

Both graphics cards will also be without connections to external power supply , which ensures a maximum TDP of 75 watts.

Yet you still persist is attributing your own arbitrary numbers

CasecutterGiven these numbers unless they are on a <160mm2 dia, while staying under 110W TDP they aren't going to be much if any influence.

All this, when every source seems to note that the cards leaked are overclocked SKUs, and still don't utilise anything other than the PCI-E slot for power.
:banghead:

HumanSmokeAll this, when every source seems to note that the cards leaked are overclocked SKUs, and still don't utilise anything other than the PCI-E slot for power.

Don't get that Chef's hat in such a wad.

I'm just reading the information as provided from both the TPU articles, and there’s always someone here to provide a alternate opinion. I'm not the only one on this thread that's skeptical of a Ti OC not needing the 6-Pin.

First, that “other” TPU article never mentions the TDP for either. I don't read Swedish and won't normally have time to translate every article, it's a shame that information was omitted within btarunrs’ re-write, take that up with him. If you look I wrote that several hour before the post here.

While yes I just miss-read it denoting the "Ti" designation; "The TDP of the GTX 750 Ti is approximated to be around 75 Watt". With all the designators Ti /non-Ti and former/latter bantered-about I just took away the wrong information, a simple mistake. While are you saying even the OC'd (and are you indicating Ti's) don't utilize anything other than the PCI-E slot power?

I'll hold to a wait and see as we know much of this communication get convoluted and mixed-up just as I have.

CasecutterFirst, that “other” TPU article never mentions the TDP for either.

Might I suggest you actually read the source material - the original article links are provided for a reason....assuming you're actually interested of course

CasecutterI don't read Swedish and won't normally have time to translate every article it's a shame that information was omitted within btarunrs’ re-write, take that up with him.

Why? My schedule allowed for 75 seconds to translate the SweClockers article link that bta provided. I honestly didn't realise that Google translate, or copy/pasting a block of text into any other online translator was deemed such a time consuming business. Your life must be phenomenally busy, although I wonder how you couldn't budget a couple of minutes to translate and read a paragraph of source material, but could find the time to reply to my post

CasecutterIf you look I wrote that several hour before the post here.

Which makes the post here all the more suspect, considering the article (and the SweClockers link provided) you earlier posted on had all the relevant information to hand.

CasecutterWhile yes I just miss-read it denoting the "Ti" designation; "The TDP of the GTX 750 Ti is approximated to be around 75 Watt".

The likely reason it is approximated is if the card does not a PCI-E power input, the cards draw is limited to a nominal 75W through the PCI-E x16 slot.

CasecutterWhile are you saying even the OC'd (and are you indicating Ti's) don't utilize anything other than the PCI-E slot power?

What I'm seeing is a low-end priced card with a 75W power budget with clocks of 1085MHz core/1163MHz boost. Now, there may well be SKUs with an auxiliary 6-pin power input...so what kind of clocks do you think are attainable by substantially increasing input power? Do you not think that a board with a 150W board power budget might conceivably offer more performance than the 75W board tested in the article? Yet you ascribe the higher power budget of a so-far unidentified board with the performance of a tested board using ≤75W. Doesn't seem very logical or likely IMO, and nor does pushing the clock frequencies past what are already substantial numbers for an entry level model....are we in an era where 1200-1300MHz in the sub-$150 segment is going to be the norm? If so, then Nvidia have done wonders tweaking a Kepler design still on 28nm. Kind of makes you wonder why their competitor seems stalled at the 1GHz mark, no?

One of the first leaks and listing from Tmall made reference to a 6-pin



I can't translate that but its clear 6pin is there and its referring to the 768 core variant.

HumanSmoke?

Obviously you have more free time...

Good find Xzibit :toast:
But we can't trust that either as is says a 768 cuda with a 6-pin while marked as a GTX 750. Who's right?

XzibitOne of the first leaks and listing from Tmall made reference to a 6-pin

I saw that a couple of days ago along with a pre-order for anAsus GTX 750 Ti, which also stated that the 1033/1098 were reference clock speeds, and that the card was a 140W part...which makes it slower, more power hungry, and more expensive than the part it is designed to replace. Something doesn't add up.

To me it looks like a refresh rather then what "Maxwell" is suppose to be.

GK107 was a 75w(-)

GM107 reference or not 750/750 Ti is looking like a GK106 75w(+). It also might be there able to stretch out a bit more on a smaller die to sell smaller dies at a higher margin.

Nvidia could just paper launch a reference card that doesn't need a 6pin and let the partners add a 6pin. Nvidia can say it doesn't need one but the partners added.

HumanSmokeSomething doesn't add up.

Exactly, they are still on 28Nm and effectively shrank the die by clipping the memory bus, and other changes. But still being 960 Cuda part I can't see some 50% improvement on efficiency, all while higher clocks… on 20Nm perhaps. If they can find a 20% improvement for a 960 Cuda part they'll be doing great. While the 768 Cuda part on GK106 was 110W, I’ve no issue saying they can get it to be 75W.

If wrong and they're better... all the better, but given the information we have to scrutinize it seems to be shaping up as such. Holding to 28Nm is probably one of the biggest limiting issues to the efficiency. Maxwell it's self is evolutionary; it's 20Nm/Denver/UVM that will make it revolutionary.

I agree.

The only Kepler cards that didn't require a 6-pin connector where all 384 cores or less and didn't have boost clocks.

CasecutterExactly, they are still on 28Nm and effectively shrank the die by clipping the memory bus, and other changes. But still being 960 Cuda part I can't see some 50% improvement on efficiency, all while higher clocks… on 20Nm perhaps. If they can find a 20% improvement for a 960 Cuda part they'll be doing great. While the 768 Cuda part on GK106 was 110W, I’ve no issue saying they can get it to be 75W.

If wrong and they're better... all the better, but given the information we have to scrutinize it seems to be shaping up as such. Holding to 28Nm is probably one of the biggest limiting issues to the efficiency. Maxwell it's self is evolutionary; it's 20Nm/Denver/UVM that will make it revolutionary.

Well remember this is Maxwell and not Kepler, and nvidia stated Maxwell is designed specifically for mobile and efficiency. If you look at the big picture nvidia started with Fermi all about compute but then back pedaled with Kepler and went all about efficiency and mobile. So each compute unit now has less compute resources and is geared more towards graphics unlike amd where in sea islands they pretty much only improved compute and did almost nothing to the graphics other than some Fine tuning for efficiency. So what do we have now? Bonaire and this gk107 both measuring around 160mm2 but with nvidia packing more cores on the same process. And with nvidia being about 20% faster than gcn per core for graphics intensive tasks, but then being Much behind in compute. It's obvious this is a direct competitor to Bonaire and performing about the same as GTX650boost but closer to a GTX660 when bandwidth is not as needed all with a smaller die meaning better efficiency. And to those who wonder why nvidia would release such a part that performs similar to the ones before? Because nvidia was competing with amds 160mm2 Bonaire with a 220mm2 go106 chip that had a few parts disabled which I bet still cost more.