Thursday, October 16th 2014

Apple Introduces 27-inch iMac with Retina 5K Display

Apple today unveiled the 27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display, featuring the world's highest resolution display with a breathtaking 14.7 million pixels. At this amazing resolution, text appears sharper than ever, videos are unbelievably lifelike, and you can see new levels of detail in your photos. With the latest quad-core processors, high-performance graphics, Fusion Drive and Thunderbolt 2, iMac with Retina 5K display is the most powerful iMac ever made - it's the ultimate display combined with the ultimate all-in-one.

"Thirty years after the first Mac changed the world, the new iMac with Retina 5K display running OS X Yosemite is the most insanely great Mac we have ever made," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Marketing. "With a breathtaking 14.7 million pixel display, faster CPU and graphics, Fusion Drive, and Thunderbolt 2, it's the most beautiful and powerful iMac ever."
iMac with Retina 5K display delivers an amazingly immersive user experience. With a resolution of 5120 x 2880, iMac with Retina 5K display has four times more pixels than the standard 27-inch iMac and 67 percent more pixels than a 4K display. Text looks as sharp as it does on a printed page, and you can see more of your high-resolution photos with pixel-for-pixel detail. In apps like Final Cut Pro X, you can view 4K video at full size while still leaving plenty of room for your assets and editing tools.

The display on the new 27-inch iMac has been engineered for performance, power efficiency and stunning visual quality. iMac with Retina 5K display uses a precisely manufactured oxide TFT-based panel to deliver vivid display brightness from corner to corner. A single supercharged Apple-designed timing controller (TCON), with four times the bandwidth, drives all 14.7 million pixels. iMac with Retina 5K display also uses highly efficient LEDs and organic passivation to improve image quality and reduce display power consumption by 30 percent, even while driving four times more pixels at the same brightness. To improve the contrast ratio, iMac with Retina 5K display uses a new photo alignment process and a compensation film to deliver blacker blacks and more vibrant colors from any viewing angle. In addition, every iMac with Retina 5K display is calibrated using three state-of-the-art spectroradiometers to ensure precise and accurate color.

Not only is iMac with Retina 5K display more beautiful on the outside, it is also more powerful on the inside. It comes with a 3.5 GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 processor with Turbo Boost speeds up to 3.9 GHz, and for the first time can be configured with a 4 GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor with Turbo Boost speeds up to 4.4 GHz. Every new iMac with Retina 5K display also comes with AMD Radeon R9 M290X graphics and can be configured with AMD Radeon R9 M295X graphics, delivering up to 3.5 teraflops of computing power, the most powerful graphics ever offered on an iMac. iMac with Retina 5K display comes standard with 8 GB of memory and a 1 TB Fusion Drive for the first time. The new iMac can also be configured with up to 32 GB of memory, a 3 TB Fusion Drive, or up to 1 TB of super-fast, PCIe-based flash storage. In addition, iMac with Retina 5K display includes two Thunderbolt 2 ports that deliver up to 20 Gbps each, twice the bandwidth of the previous generation.

Every new Mac comes with OS X Yosemite, a powerful new version of OS X, redesigned and refined with a fresh, modern look, powerful new apps and amazing new Continuity features that make working across your Mac and iOS devices more fluid than ever. OS X Yosemite is also engineered to take full advantage of the iMac's Retina 5K display, delivering stunning clarity across all your apps.

iMovie, GarageBand and the suite of iWork apps come free with every new Mac. iMovie lets you easily create beautiful movies, and you can use GarageBand to make new music or learn to play piano or guitar. iWork productivity apps, Pages, Numbers and Keynote, make it easy to create, edit and share stunning documents, spreadsheets and presentations. iWork has been redesigned with a new look, support for iCloud Drive and a host of new features, including a new comments view in Pages. iWork for iCloud beta lets you create your document on iPad, edit it on your Mac and collaborate with friends, even if they're on a PC.

Pricing & Availability
iMac with Retina 5K display begins shipping today with a 3.5 GHz quad-core Intel Core i5 with Turbo Boost speeds up to 3.9 GHz, AMD Radeon R9 M290X graphics and a 1 TB Fusion Drive for a suggested retail price of $2,499 (US). Customers can order iMac with Retina 5K display through the Apple Online Store.
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79 Comments on Apple Introduces 27-inch iMac with Retina 5K Display

#51
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Core i5, doubt it because their only purpose in life is to turn on and connect to a mainframe, very, no because they're ITX desktops that never move unless they behave badly, and they all have Windows 7 Professional and I'm sure HP provides drivers for Windows 8 and 8.1.

"Ifs" are a good thing because they're tailor-made for the client. The one-size-fits-all mentality of Apple disgusts me.
Posted on Reply
#52
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptThe one-size-fits-all mentality of Apple disgusts me.
Our employees move around a lot and can work from home. Laptops are required. Also for my institution not everything is done on a main server.

What disgusts me is that you complain about how apple makes one size fit all but can't seem to make a half decent argument about how its bad other than the fact that your biased against and are are disgusted by it, but I've seen that to work in our case so it's clearly your own bias.

We're clearly not going to see eye to eye on this as your bias and unfounded loathing seems to be the only thing you care about.

You should really stop talking like everyone has the same exact needs as you.
Posted on Reply
#53
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Apple doesn't make a computer for me, they never have, and they most likely never will. I don't fit in Apple's "all" category. Then there's people with Mac's asking me to fix them and my response is, "nope, sorry, only Apple can do that for you."

Edit: Apple doesn't even sell a computer that can hold three hard drives, nevermind six, anymore.
Posted on Reply
#54
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptApple doesn't make a computer for me, they never have, and they most likely never will; hence, I don't fit in Apple's "all" category.
Once again, the explanation of this is sketchy at best. I think you're like my co-worker and just doesn't like the interface and as a result you let that spill over into everything else about Apple.

I understand you don't like Apple, a lot of people are that way, but I would make sure your bashing it for the right reasons and in all seriousness, for me it's just the price tag that makes it really any different and the UI is all that is impacts in terms of usability from any other computer.

I prefer Linux, but I can do my job in Windows, OS X, or Linux just as well. So I can accept you saying you don't like the GUI, the price tag, or the compatibility with Windows software, but in so many instances, an Apple product will work just as well as a PC (from a usage perspective). When I hear something like your quote I included above, I hear "I do something because I've always done something," which leads me to think its really the GUI and OS you don't like when the product in reality can do so much a PC can do and the reality of it is that you just don't want to use it to do whatever you have to do.

I don't say this to start an argument, but I really don't understand what about Apple products you dislike so much because you haven't said anything concrete as to why other than "I hate one size fits all". That's not an answer, that's being stubborn.
Posted on Reply
#55
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
My graphics card is bigger than the Mac Mini so all that leaves is the Mac Pro which has FirePro cards and a $3000 price tag. I'm expecting to spend about 2/3s that price in a year, getting a single card that's at least as fast as those two combined, having no less than two hard drives and a solid state disk, an optical drive, a ATSC/NTSC TV tuner, and a sound card for driving 5.1 speakers (must support stereo surround) in addition to being capable of driving headphones.

Edit: Doesn't even look like it could drive my second monitor and that...would suck.
Posted on Reply
#56
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptMy graphics card is bigger than the Mac Mini so all that leaves is the Mac Pro which has FirePro cards and a $3000 price tag. I'm expecting to spend about 2/3s that price in a year, getting a single card that's at least as fast as those two combined, having no less than two hard drives and a solid state disk, an optical drive, a ATSC/NTSC TV tuner, and a sound card for driving 5.1 speakers (must support stereo surround) in addition to being capable of driving headphones.
Then really, you should be saying: Apple is one size fits all except for gamers. I've always acknowledged that to be the case, but when it comes to audio, Apple as an OS is light years ahead of Windows. Apple doesn't just let you play audio in just about any surround configuration you want, it lets you stream the same audio to multiple devices and with different combinations of streams on devices all at once. Windows support for stream and device mixing is piss poor. Also it's not unrealistic to say you could get a USB 3.0 ATSC tuner.

I could tell OS X to play one stream to audio device A and B, stream two to B C, stream three to A, B, and C, and 3 more streams on each device. On top of that a microphone input might be routed direct to the output of another device. Try doing that in Windows without any extra software. I know PulseAudio can do stuff like that, but you need to really know what you're doing to get it to work.

I completely understand the video card bit though. I would never buy a Mac to play video games, but audio mixing would be a huge reason to have a Mac IMHO, not for the hardware but for the OS.
FordGT90ConceptEdit: Doesn't even look like it could drive my second monitor and that...would suck.
New Mac Minis have two mDP, it can drive 2 non-Apple displays no problem. Even the old ones could do two displays, one HDMI, on mDP, so as long as you're not using VGA on an older Mac Mini, you'd be fine.

Also the newest Mac Mini have two mDP plus HDMI and an option for Intel Iris. The CPUs can display 3 devices including the HD 4400 and up, I don't know if the Mini itself can though.
Posted on Reply
#57
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
AquinusThen really, you should be saying: Apple is one size fits all except for gamers. I've always acknowledged that to be the case, but when it comes to audio, Apple as an OS is light years ahead of Windows. Apple doesn't just let you play audio in just about any surround configuration you want, it lets you stream the same audio to multiple devices and with different combinations of streams on devices all at once. Windows support for stream and device mixing is piss poor. Also it's not unrealistic to say you could get a USB 3.0 ATSC tuner.
Then why does Mac Pro only have stereo 3.5mm plugs? They're basically admitting "we suck at audio, buy an external USB DAC." It, out of the box, can't even do stereo except via HDMI which implies a lot of huge external costs starting with a receiver to separate the audio from the video or a specialized monitor that does it for you. Since you seem to care about this streaming audio stuff, what am I going to stream it to? Why would I stream it to anything? Why wouldn't I just pull whatever song I want off my server and play it on any device, at any time, at my whim?

I need both and it is illegal to sell NTSC without ATSC.
AquinusI could tell OS X to play one stream to audio device A and B, stream two to B C, stream three to A, B, and C, and 3 more streams on each device. On top of that a microphone input might be routed direct to the output of another device. Try doing that in Windows without any extra software. I know PulseAudio can do stuff like that, but you need to really know what you're doing to get it to work.
As I thought, not useful to me. I could elaborate why but that is off topic. The fact my $400 speakers would be dormant in the name of that is insulting (directed at Apple).
AquinusI completely understand the video card bit though. I would never buy a Mac to play video games, but audio mixing would be a huge reason to have a Mac IMHO, not for the hardware but for the OS.
I like Audacity, thank you very much.
AquinusNew Mac Minis have two mDP, it can drive 2 non-Apple displays no problem. Even the old ones could do two displays, one HDMI, on mDP, so as long as you're not using VGA on an older Mac Mini, you'd be fine.
Guess what? I need VGA. My KVM is DVI+VGA and I work on a lot of computers that are exclusively VGA (I know, this region is way behind the times).
AquinusAlso the newest Mac Mini have two mDP plus HDMI and an option for Intel Iris. The CPUs can display 3 devices including the HD 4400 and up, I don't know if the Mini itself can though.
My current graphics card can do that with a lot more gusto behind it.


Edit: But whatever, this conversation has dragged on long enough.
Posted on Reply
#58
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptThen why does Mac Pro only have stereo 3.5mm plugs? They're basically admitting "we suck at audio, buy an external USB DAC." It, out of the box, can't even do stereo except via HDMI which implies a lot of huge external costs starting with a receiver to separate the audio from the video or a specialized monitor that does it for you. Since you seem to care about this streaming audio stuff, what am I going to stream it to? Why would I stream it to anything? Why wouldn't I just pull whatever song I want off my server and play it on any device, at any time, at my whim?
They're saying integrated audio sucks, buy a DAC. I'm also saying what it can do. Also Apple works fine fine sending audio over HDMI, I don't see where you get evidence to the contrary.
FordGT90ConceptI need both and it is illegal to sell NTSC without ATSC.
I never said it wasn't. I say ATSC as it's the newer standard. I assume an ATSC tuner supports NTSC.
FordGT90ConceptAs I thought, not useful to me. I could elaborate why but that is off topic. The fact my $400 speakers would be dormant in the name of that is insulting (directed at Apple).
I don't care if it's useful to you once again, the world doesn't resolve around you, Ford. It's useful for other people and it does let you drive speakers and headphones at the same time as you suggested, so it's not useless.
FordGT90ConceptI like Audacity, thank you very much.
audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac
Smart ass...
FordGT90ConceptGuess what? I need VGA. My KVM is DVI+VGA and I work on a lot of computers that are exclusively VGA (I know, this region is way behind the times).
Then get a mDP to VGA adapter and stop complaining.
FordGT90ConceptMy current graphics card can do that with a lot more gusto behind it.
So can mine, that's not the point. You don't buy a Mac Mini for graphics power.

Can you give a response without making it attack? It's like you're taking this personally when you shouldn't...
Posted on Reply
#59
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
*snip*
AquinusI never said it wasn't. I say ATSC as it's the newer standard. I assume an ATSC tuner supports NTSC.
Negative. ATSC + NTSC is referred to as a combo tuner. The two standards are in no way compatible with each other other than taking a signal and spitting out a channel.

*more snippage*
AquinusThen get a mDP to VGA adapter and stop complaining.
Or not get a Mac.
Posted on Reply
#60
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptNegative. ATSC + NTSC is referred to as a combo tuner. The two standards are in no way compatible with each other other than taking a signal and spitting out a channel.
...but as you said, it's not legal to have one and not the other and ATSC is the newer standard that succeeded NTSC. Are you trying to create a circular argument about nothing?
FordGT90Concept*snip*
FordGT90Concept*more snippage*
FordGT90ConceptOr not get a Mac.
So that's what your argument boils down to. Lovely.
Posted on Reply
#61
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
What? Do you want more "smart ass" rebuttals? I thought I made myself clear:
-No room for at least 3 internal storage devices = deal breaker.
-No ability to drive 5.1 analog speakers = deal breaker.
-No capability to handle ATSC/NTSC over coaxial cable = deal breaker.
-No VGA support = deal breaker.
-No graphics card suitable for gaming = deal breaker.

Sure, you can argue most of that stuff can be external, plugged into the computer via Thunderbolt ports but not only are you then talking a price tag easily in excess of $5 grand, you're also talking about one hell of a mess on my desk that should be neatly contained in a case. The entire idea of it is ridiculous. Apple sells appliances, not personal computers.
Aquinus...but as you said, it's not legal to have one and not the other and ATSC is the newer standard that succeeded NTSC. Are you trying to create a circular argument about nothing?
It is illegal to sell a NTSC tuner post-2009. The only way you can get a NTSC tuner is to buy a combo tuner which has ATSC + NTSC. I can't put it any more plainly than that.

Edit: Straight from the mouth of the lion:
FCCapps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=27026&switch=P

The current schedule for DTV Tuner implementation is contained in Section 15.117(i), as amended by FCC Second Report and Order on Requirements for Digital Television Receiving Capability - released November 8, 2005 (hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-190A1.pdf).

The rule requires that new television broadcast receivers shipped in interstate commerce or imported into the United States, must include DTV Tuners by the following dates:

By July 1, 2005, 100% of television receivers with screen sizes 36” and above and 50% of receivers with screen sizes 25” to 36” must include ATSC Tuners

By March 1, 2006, 100% of television receivers with screen sizes 25” to 36” must include ATSC Tuners.

By March 1, 2007, 100% of television receivers with screen sizes less than 25" and 100% of other video devices that receive television signals (e.g., VCRs, DVRs, and DVD recorders) must include ATSC Tuners.

The rules do not separate dates for manufacturing vs. shipped in interstate commerce, or imported into the United States. There is no FCC requirement to eliminate NTSC Tuners from televisions that include ATSC Tuners.
* There's a caveat that all TVs must include BOTH types of TV tuners. Devices like computer and DVR tuners only require ATSC. Case in point, my DishNetwork DVR has dual ATSC tuners, no NTSC.
Posted on Reply
#62
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90Concept-No ability to drive 5.1 analog speakers = deal breaker.
-No capability to handle ATSC/NTSC over coaxial cable = deal breaker.
-No VGA support = deal breaker.
Those aren't true... and USB adapters won't make it cost 5 grand. You make a point with internal storage and the graphics card, but the rest is nonsense and I've said it before, you don't buy a Mac for gaming. It's as simple as that but most people aren't play games, certainly not at work. The point is you have some very specific requirements that 99% of people won't have. Apple cares more about what the general public and businesses want, not what you want. Also, 3 drives is almost an argument for a NAS imho, but that's a different subject.

In all seriousness, it's not realistic to think Apple is thinking to themselves, "How do we make a cheap Mac Mini that suits all of Ford's needs." Seriously man, be realistic. Your demands aren't normal and Apple isn't going to cater to such a small group of people. There is no money in it, but that doesn't make Apple products bad...
FordGT90ConceptIt is illegal to sell a NTSC tuner post-2009. The only way you can get a NTSC tuner is to buy a combo tuner which has ATSC + NTSC. I can't put it any more plainly than that.
What the hell are you trying to say, Ford? I've been agreeing with you on this.
Posted on Reply
#63
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
The only external USB sound card I found that was half way decent was made by Creative and Creative doesn't do stereo surround (which I why I abandoned them years ago). Tuner is a very limited selection and in my five minutes of Googling, I didn't find anything acceptable. Everything I clicked on and available to buy now was made for Windows. Mini DisplayPort to VGA costs about $20 and there's no saying if it will work with the KVM or not.

SSD = OS and fast access games
HDD1 = general applications and temp to reduce wear
HDD2 = Origin + Steam + GOG

Apple only moves 5 million Macs/year. Even Acer can beat Apple in that metric. Apple is Henry Ford of today: you can have any color you like so long as it is black. There's 54 million people like me that can never buy a Mac because it doesn't do anything useful to us and at a much steeper price at that.
Posted on Reply
#64
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptThe only external USB sound card I found that was half way decent was made by Creative and Creative doesn't do stereo surround (which I why I abandoned them years ago).
...but they do exist and you could get one.
FordGT90ConceptTuner is a very limited selection and in my five minutes of Googling, I didn't find anything acceptable.
Hmmmm. I see what you mean. Most of it's for over-the-air programming and not scrambled signals like what Comcast has. I see nothing capable of descrambling which is a PITA however I have seen some really nice boxes for recording HD video directly off inputs, but not what you want. :(
FordGT90ConceptMini DisplayPort to VGA costs about $20 and there's no saying if it will work with the KVM or not.
I think it would. We have a Mini at work in our rack and the adapter works fine with our VGA+USB KVM switch.
FordGT90ConceptSSD = OS and fast access games
HDD1 = general applications
HDD2 = Origin + Steam + GOG
Our Mac Mini at work has two 500GB 2.5" drives in it, so an SSD + 1TB drive isn't unrealistic.
FordGT90ConceptApple only moves 5 million Macs/year. Even Lenovo can beat Apple in that metric. Apple is Henry Ford of today: you can have any color you like so long as it is black. There's 54 million people like me that can never buy a Mac because it doesn't do anything useful to us and at a much steeper price at that.
Lenovo is also the leader in all laptop sales now. If they just surpassed Apple recently, that is more of a sign of how well Apple is doing, not how bad.
Posted on Reply
#65
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Aquinus...but they do exist and you could get one.
And be unsatisfied. Receiver would be the only acceptable solution and finding one with stereo surround wouldn't be easy nor cheap.
AquinusHmmmm. I see what you mean. Most of it's for over-the-air programming and not scrambled signals like what Comcast has. I see nothing capable of descrambling which is a PITA however I have seen some really nice boxes for recording HD video directly off inputs, but not what you want. :(
I only need OTA.
AquinusOur Mac Mini at work has two 500GB 2.5" drives in it, so an SSD + 1TB drive isn't unrealistic.
HDD2 already has over 1.5 TB used. Moving the contents of HDD1 to SSD would make the SSD too expensive.
AquinusLenovo is also the leader in all laptop sales now. If they just surpassed Apple recently, that is more of a sign of how well Apple is doing, not how bad.
Apple is 1 of 1; Lenovo is 1 of many. And I changed it to Acer. Apple is only close to Lenovo in the USA. Globally, Apple is less than Acer.
Posted on Reply
#66
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptApple is 1 of 1; Lenovo is 1 of many. And I changed it to Acer. Apple is only close to Lenovo in the USA. Globally, Apple is less than Acer.
Where are you getting those numbers? I searched and found nothing concrete.
Posted on Reply
#68
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptPC stats (I was looking at Q1 2014, these are newer): www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2869019
Mac stats: www.nextpowerup.com/news/14641/mac-sales-reach-high-during-fiscal-q4.html

Apple (5.52 million) is more on par with Asus (5.77 million) than Acer (6.83 million) looking at the most recent data available.
5 million of all ~32 million sales are Apple if you combine them. That's ~15% which is not too bad.

All I'm trying to say is that the Mac Mini doesn't cater to you, but it does cater to a lot of other people's needs for a reasonable price.
Posted on Reply
#69
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Worldwide PC sales, all manufacturers: 79.39 million
Worldwide Apple sales: 5.52 million
Total: 84.91 million
Apple percentage: 6.5%

Small fish in a big pond.

I'm saying no Mac product caters to me (probably never will) and Apple's prices are not reasonable. Just in the example with me, its too easy to dismiss all of the external peripherals that rapidly add to the cost of ownership. Apple makes primitive computers for people's primitive needs and nothing more. If all I needed from a computer is to play music, word process once in a while, browse the internet, and check email, Mac, *nix, Android, and Windows would all work for me. But I'm a "power user" which rules out Mac entirely...
Posted on Reply
#70
Aquinus
Resident Wat-man
FordGT90ConceptWorldwide PC sales, all manufacturers: 79.39 million
Worldwide Apple sales: 5.52 million
Total: 84.91 million
Apple percentage: 6.5%

Small fish in a big pond.

I'm saying no Mac product caters to me (probably never will) and Apple's prices are not reasonable. Just in the example with me, its too easy to dismiss all of the external peripherals that rapidly add to the cost of ownership. Apple makes primitive computers for people's primitive needs and nothing more. If all I needed from a computer is to play music, word process once in a while, browse the internet, and check email, Mac, *nix, Android, and Windows would all work for me. But I'm a "power user" which rules out Mac entirely...
And US-wide estimated sales for Q3-2014 is 14.6%. As you said, Apple products aren't cheap so it only makes sense that more wealthy nations would buy Apple more. I'm a power user too, I don't buy a Mac for the same reason. HOWEVER, I do have a Macbook Air given to me by work. Having used it, there is nothing wrong with it and it's more capable than I would have thought otherwise.

The point is, Apple is not a bad product because it doens't cater to your specific needs at a cheap price, and your needs are very specific. I think that's an unrealistic expectation since to meet your own goals, you would probably build a tower anyways, right? So no pre-made tower would actually be very beneficial to you in the first place. My point is for most people, Apple products are fine, and that you and I are not most people.

Also 500 USD for a mini isn't too bad if you want OS X and you won't be gaming. Also for a form factor like that at 300 USD you'll probably end up getting a J1900 Celeron instead of an i5. So I think the price here is reasonable. I do think iMacs and the Mac Pro are ludicrously expensive but Apple's laptop prices have been slowly inching down over time.
Posted on Reply
#71
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
I haven't seen figures from Apple on US Mac sales, only global. Make no mistake that the uptick in Mac sales stemmed from three things: 1) decline in iPad sales, 2) China sales went up by almost 50%, and 3) Windows 8 still sucks.
AquinusSo no pre-made tower would actually be very beneficial to you in the first place.
That's the beauty of IBM-PC compatible; you can make it work. If I bought a computer off the shelf, all I'd need to do is make sure it has enough 3.5" internal bays and PCI/PCI Express slots and I could transfer my cards/drives over. It's ironic the reason why IBM set out to bring industry leaders together to make a standard for everyone as a response to Apple still rings true today. It nearly killed Apple, then Microsoft threw Apple a bone by investing in it, and Steve Jobs came back to make Apple sell its appliances in markets where interchangable parts really don't work (portable devices; but it is coming if Google has its way).
AquinusAlso 500 USD for a mini isn't too bad if you want OS X and you won't be gaming. Also for a form factor like that at 300 USD you'll probably end up getting a J1900 Celeron instead of an i5. So I think the price here is reasonable. I do think iMacs and the Mac Pro are ludicrously expensive but Apple's laptop prices have been slowly inching down over time.
Not many people want Mac OS X but they for sure don't want Windows 8.1. You'll also be getting a system that most likely can't be upgraded nor repaired.

I really don't know why you like (rather, pushing) the Mac Mini so much. It's basically just an ITX motherboard with its components soldered in.
Motherboard $90: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157526
802.11ac $30: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106190
Processor $140: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116945
RAM $40: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239312
HDD $50: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W01AZ5317
Case $50: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163242
PSU $50: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256097

That comes to $450 and that processor is desktop versus mobile which translates to about twice as fast. Add in an OS and it is a bit more than the cheapest Mac Mini but completely serviceable with room for expansion (throw in three more drives, another stick of RAM, and a half-height PCI Express card). It also has a quality internal power supply as opposed to a cheap external power supply. And I didn't cut any corners in the above selections. I went with quality parts from reputable manufacturers.

The cost difference can be made up via not buying Apple keyboards, mice, and monitors. If I had to buy 100 systems for basic computer use, I'd go with what I spec'd above over Mac Mini because long-term operating costs will be lower.
Posted on Reply
#72
Galas
FordGT90ConceptNot many people want Mac OS X but they for sure don't want Windows 8.1. You'll also be getting a system that most likely can't be upgraded nor repaired.

I really don't know why you like (rather, pushing) the Mac Mini so much. It's basically just an ITX motherboard with its components soldered in.
Motherboard $90: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157526
802.11ac $30: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106190
Processor $140: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116945
RAM $40: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239312
HDD $50: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W01AZ5317
Case $50: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163242
PSU $50: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256097

That comes to $450 and that processor is desktop versus mobile which translates to about twice as fast. Add in an OS and it is a bit more than the cheapest Mac Mini but completely serviceable with room for expansion (throw in three more drives, another stick of RAM, and a half-height PCI Express card). It also has a quality internal power supply as opposed to a cheap external power supply. And I didn't cut any corners in the above selections. I went with quality parts from reputable manufacturers.

The cost difference can be made up via not buying Apple keyboards, mice, and monitors. If I had to buy 100 systems for basic computer use, I'd go with what I spec'd above over Mac Mini because long-term operating costs will be lower.
God i've been reading your posts all along and is getting more obvious that you don't know what you are talking about.

That ITX system you built it's not exactly the same. It's bigger. Also the PSU in the mac mini is internal.
Besides the fact that you should add the price of the OS.

Don't get me wrong. I have a custom built PC. It's cheaper if you want to add some fancy graphic card and hard drives, but by no means the things you want to do with it can't be done on a mac, one way or another.
>B-but muh gaymen rig!!1
Not everybody wants a ricer gaming rig and not everybody uses their machines mostly for gaming. Deal with it.
Posted on Reply
#73
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Mac Minis use laptop components, not desktop. If you want to make a 1:1 competitive product with Mac Mini, you have to be an OEM and manufacture (or special order) all of your parts. If you want to scour the internet for an OEM machine that attempts to compete directly with Mac Mini, be my guest. I'm not because I would never even consider purchasing such a machine in the first place.

You are correct on the Mac Mini having an internal power supply. I saw the picture of the back of it with the standard positive/neutral plug and assumed there was a brick between it and the outlet. The website plainly states there isn't. Still, the power supply I gave is more than four times the output of the 85w unit in the Mac Mini and likely far more efficient at that. What I have selected is clearly overkill depending on whether or not a discreet graphics card is installed and what is placed in the 2.5" bays. One could save some money there by downgrading it to ~100-150w.

Edit: This $20 PSU is probably on par with the Mac Mini considering the gap between laptop and desktop power requirements: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817154024

Correction: most people DO game (what is Solitaire?) but most computers do not require a discreet video card. This is a point Aquinus keeps stressing and I keep ignoring because it is stating the obvious. I gave numerous reason why Apple does not make a product for me. I have not and will not make claims that me implies everyone. That's stuffing words in my mouth that simply do not exist (I thought I made that abundantly clear in post #70).
Posted on Reply
#74
Octavean
FordGT90ConceptIT department doesn't seem too bright unless she exclusively programs for iOS/Mac OS X. They wasted a ton of money and they're giving her poor tools to work with compared to what she likely came from (Visual Studio).

Most businesses around here are going from XP to Windows 7. I only know of one that is going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 and they do a ton of CAD work.
I don't see any of this as being particularly relevant and I don't know or even care if it is true or not.

The point is if changes are made like this then the individual employees have to go along with it or find employment elsewhere. It wasn't a particularly difficult change to adapt to for the individual employees or at least it wasn't in this case. I haven't heard of even one hold out or complaint due to said change and I believe that their was a BYOD policy prior to the move and most if not all devs that took advantage of it were bringing in Macs anyway.

Its similar to how some people may use Mac's at home but must use Windows at work. Either way the individuals should be able to adapt and do their job at work. I won't speculate as to the quality of the tools necessary to do the job without having very specific information about the development environment and additional requirements.

My point still stands and its a very simple one. Not everyone has a choice as to what hardware and software they use in their work environment.
Posted on Reply
#75
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
OctaveanEither way the individuals should be able to adapt and do their job at work.
It costs money. That aforementioned place that went from Windows 7 to 8.1, for example, lost many days of productivity due to employees having to learn 8.1's atrocious UI. The jump from Windows XP to Windows 7, on the other hand, is virtually seamless. The jump from Windows 7 to Windows 10 should also be seamless.
OctaveanNot everyone has a choice as to what hardware and software they use in their work environment.
Never said they did. It just surprises me that any company would push developers to Mac unless they were developing exclusively for Mac OS X and/or iOS.
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