Saturday, October 1st 2022
The USB-IF Announces New Logos, Kills Off SuperSpeed Branding
The USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF) has announced a few changes to the various logos that are tied to the USB standard. This is said to be done to simplify the plethora of logos that are currently being used and to make it easier for consumers to know what they're buying. At the same time, the old SuperSpeed USB logo is being retired and the branding will not appear on new products at all. Instead, the logos that were developed for the USB4 standard and USB PD 3.1, will be adapted across the board. The new changes will come into effect this quarter and could appear on new products before the end of the year.
The new logos that will replace the SuperSpeed logo are pretty straightforward, with a 5 and 10 Gbps logo being added to the 20 and 40 Gbps logos that we've already seen. These logos will be used for packaging, on cable connectors and even on some devices. The new 5 and 10 Gbps logos can also be combined with the 60 W and 240 W charging logos when used with USB-C cables. All of this should make it easier as a consumer to know what kind of cable you're buying, but keep in mind that these logos only apply to certified products and not all USB cables are certified. Still, it's an improvement overall and should make life easier when shopping for cables, assuming the new logos are being used properly.
Sources:
The USB-IF, via The Verge
The new logos that will replace the SuperSpeed logo are pretty straightforward, with a 5 and 10 Gbps logo being added to the 20 and 40 Gbps logos that we've already seen. These logos will be used for packaging, on cable connectors and even on some devices. The new 5 and 10 Gbps logos can also be combined with the 60 W and 240 W charging logos when used with USB-C cables. All of this should make it easier as a consumer to know what kind of cable you're buying, but keep in mind that these logos only apply to certified products and not all USB cables are certified. Still, it's an improvement overall and should make life easier when shopping for cables, assuming the new logos are being used properly.
66 Comments on The USB-IF Announces New Logos, Kills Off SuperSpeed Branding
They also need to develop commercial switch chip, similar to TB4. That will need to be PCIe 5.0 x4 connection providing up to 128 Gbps, so that two ports can use the bandwidth.This is much better than it used to be. What is confusing you?Which dedicated ports? Majority of new motherboards have HDMI and DP ports. They are adding USB-C now too, that tunnels DP from iGPU.Good question. USB20 operates over USB-C port. I have not seen one single new motherboard with USB-A at 20 Gbps. So, that's out of the way.
If you see on USB-C port USB20 label only (currently SS20 on most boards or 20G on Gigabyte), it's going to be USB data only.
If you see on USB-C port USB4 or USB10 with DP logo, this is where DP and PCIe tunnelling are implemented.
We will not see PCIe letters on rear I/O, but Microsoft mandates now every vendor to support PCIe tunnelling on every USB4 port, 20 or 40 Gbps. Most vendors will go with 40 Gbps ports, as DP 1.4 tunnelling needs to be supported at 32 Gbps, just like Thunderbolt 4 does. I have not seen one single USB4 solution with 20 Gbps implementation, as this would mean that even DP 1.2 cannot be supported at 21 Gbps. Hope this clarify matters.
Below is what Microsoft says about it.
Simple is the best.
For example.
Usb 4.5
Usb 4.10
Usb 4.20
Usb 4.40
And etc
What do vendors install in NVMe enclosures:
1. USB 3.2 chip 10 or 20 Gbps for direct host-peripheral connection. Both need to support the same speed. The same for tunnelled, but 20 Gbps is optional.
2. Thunderbolt chip at x2 or x4 PCIe lanes (many vendors install older TB3 6000 chip with x2 PCIe 3.0). USB 10 Gbps is mandatory, can be tunnelled too.
A. If the host has TB, PCIe connection at 16 Gbps or 32 Gbps can be established (the fastest transfer)
B. If the host does not have TB, but only USB-C port, USB at 10 Gbps should work
C. if the host has USB4 port, it shoud work like TB
3. USB4 chip is more complex. Peripheral can have either 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps chip. In tunnelled mode, USB 10 Gbps is mandatory and PCIe function is optional.
A - if the host has the same USB4 chip as the peripheral, 20 or 40 Gbps will work; PCIe tunnelling in mandatory, so look out if PCIe is supported on drive too
B - if the host has TB, USB will work at 10 Gbps, but if the peripheral supports PCIe funtion, NVMe drive can connect at 16 or 32 GbpsWhat they did is much better more simplified now. Don't you realize it?This has been explained. The host must support PCIe tunnelling due to Microsoft requirements for Windows host devices. For peripherals, it remains optional.Have you tried those connections? I explained this too above.
- SS20 or 20G labelled ports are simple USB ports and will accept Alpine Ridge devices as USB devices at 10 Gbps
- 40 DP or 10G DP or SS10 DP labelled ports should support DP and PCIe tunelling, as those are USB4 ports. Alpine Ridge peripheral should connect to those ports at 16 Gbps (JHL6240) or at 32 Gbps (JHL6540 and JHL6340) for PCIe data.
The most secure option on the host is 40 DP, as this is JHL8540 Thunderbolt 4 chip and we know how it works. Asrock and Asus are doing a good job here.
Bizarrely, several new motherboards with this chip do not have Intel's "thunder" logo, meaning that those chips have de facto became USB4 chips. We have not reached uniform labelling, as yet...
However, some motherboard vendors that did not install JHL8540 as their 'USB4' solution, may skip PCIe tunnelling by labelling USB ports as SS10 DP, and simply omit PCIe by providing DP from onboard graphics alongside USB10 (Gigabyte and MSI). This is to be checked once someone tests those ports.No. It is Intel that has "crammed" Thunderbolt PHY and features into USB4 specification, to harmomize the interface over USB-C. They even told USB agency that USB should never be as good in the spec as TB is. I hope USB IF showed them a middle finger on that. Both bodies are now pursuing the next level, which is 80 Gbps with PCIe 5.0 x4 and DP 2.0. It's a race.
USB is one port that might* do everything. TB3/4 is one port that does do everything. To me, that's a pretty big distinction.
*: YMMV.
USB4 40/w240
Yes, Thunderbolt 4 has some features that aren't supported by USB4, but only if the controller is built into an Intel based system, as some features are Intel specific.
In fact, despite being a key member of the USB-IF, Intel is trying hard to make USB4 look inferior to Thunderbolt 4, when in fact, USB4 is often at parity on the host side, sometimes exceeding Thunderbolt 4, for example when combined with USB PD.
IS USB4 perfect? Far from it, which I why I wrote this a few months ago, but it's also by no means crippled, as Intel is trying to make it out to be. Some devices will be limited, but most of those devices aren't likely to need a full implemenation of USB4 either.
www.techpowerup.com/review/usb4-guide-info-technology-details/At least you went for the top of the range.
It's the reason iFruit stuff has a supposed "good user experience", you don't need a degree to figure out what will work or not, you also don't have nearly as many options and are often limited to the aproved options, but they work and you don't need to know how or why.Given the optional stuff in USB4 and how Thunderbolt 4 is clear and has almost everything mandatory to meet certification, doesn't seem to have been any middle figure.Thunderbolt 3 had the problem of being 2 or 4 lanes wide which allowed sleezy manufacturers to trick users, Thunderbolt 4 solved that and made most of the optional stuff required and always 4 lanes.
Really?
in 2022 "SS" is not sounding good? 'bout time :)
Aside of joking
I would drop the stupid Gbps and use GB/s numbering instead, but it's we can hope for better I guess.
I like that Microsoft made pcie tunneling mandatory for usb4, but that is a Microsoft decision, not usb-if. I think the labeling of a cable and/or port should have check marks for all the protocols supported. Usb 20 Gbps/40Gbps. Then check marks for: dp1.4, pcie, etc.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Implementers_Forum
Too many cooks in the kitchen, design by committee, etc. :D
If a cable can do 40 Gbps speeds, then it can handle everything else that USB4 would be able to do.Many of those cooks wanted a better spec.
Intel said no.
So if you just look at a usb label that says 20 Gbps… how do you know with any confidence pcie tunneling enabled? What about display port ?
If it's two usb-c ports solution, it is not clear as yet how those ports are fed with PCIe lanes. Does each port have PCIe 4.0 x2 assigned, which would mean each port gets up to 32 Gbps, or is there PCIe 4.0 switch, like in TB4, that assigns bandwidth dinamically, depending on traffic on each port? If the latter, one port can get up to 40 Gbps, assuming full traffic, and another one up to remaining 24 Gbps. I hope Asmedia has installed PCIe switch for dynamic traffic.
www.techpowerup.com/review/usb4-guide-info-technology-details/
I guess not, based on your comments.
If it says 20 Gbps, that's all you need to know. Tunneling will work, regardless of what you're sending in the tunnel, that's why tunnelling is so great.See article above. I visited ASMedia and talked to them about this. One port can do 40 Gbps while the other can do 20 Gbps simultaneously.
- both will have 80 Gbps bidirectional ports and cables
- both will have DP 2.0 Alt More for 80 Gbps traffic to monitors
- Intel is under pressure to provide the latest PD 3.1 on TB5 and step up the game to 240W, to feed monitors and more needy laptops
- Intel also needs to increase USB throughput up from 10 Gbps to 40 Gbps, tunnelled or not
- USB IF should enable networking at 10 GbE, Intel has an edge here
- PCIe PHY is a bit of a mistery. Both organisations should go for PCIe 5.0 x4 to the host, to get access to 128 Gbps, so that each usb-c port could operate at Gen4 x4 to use 64 Gbps, or dynamically use up to 80 Gbps on one port. This would be ideal for AMD 7000 CPUs, as those already provide PCIe 5.0 x4 for such link, in addition to Gen5 x16 for GPU and Gen5 x4 for NVMe drive. All this directly on CPU! Intel's CPUs in Meteor Lake 14th will need to add another eight Gen5 lanes to match AMD CPUs in this regard.Why AMD is not the part?If you see on USB-C port USB20 label only (currently SS20 on most boards or 20G on Gigabyte), it's going to be USB data only.
If you see on USB-C port USB4 or USB10 with DP logo, this is where DP and PCIe tunnelling are implemented.
We will not see PCIe letters on rear I/O, but Microsoft mandates now every vendor to support PCIe tunnelling on every USB4 port, 20 or 40 Gbps. Most vendors will go with 40 Gbps ports, as DP 1.4 tunnelling needs to be supported at 32 Gbps, just like Thunderbolt 4 does. I have not seen one single USB4 solution with 20 Gbps implementation, as this would mean that even DP 1.2 cannot be supported at 21 Gbps. Hope this clarify matters.True that. Asrock Z390 ITX board has Apline Ridge chip with PCIe 3.0 x2 lanes. They never mentioned it anywhere. They said: "Thunderbolt 3 40 Gbps"...So, the host chip is not ready yet, right? I have checked all AMD X670 and B650 motherboards and none features ASM4242 chip, only JHL7540.
It might appear in the second wave of motherboards next year.
It's a real shame, but I guess part of the holdup is the certification as well, I mean, even AMD shipped their first 6000-series notebook SoCs without USB4 support, it came later via a UEFI and driver update.
As for the ASM4242, I guess board makers could've gone down the same route, had the chip been in mass production. I wasn't told when it would be in mass production, as it was confidential.It was Intel that "donated" TB3 to the USB-IF, so I guess they got to decide the USB4 base specs somehow.
Anyway, since Intel has released GPUs with DisplayPort 2.0 at 40 Gbps, do you have any hint about DP 2.0 monitors? Even TFT is not able to gather any meaningful information about it.
It sounds bizarre that nobody publishes anything substantial about it. Even since VESA's rep had an interview with Tom's Hardware in Janaury 2021!, he said "end of 2021". It's end of 2022 and zero news. I am confused.
The only news I have heard about it was when AMD officially certified DP 2.0 port on Rembrandt laptop in San Jose during display symposium. There was a mention of "reference monitor" with MediaTek DP 2.0 chip inside.
It all sounds secretive, hush, hush, unclear, muddy. Are there any announcements in the pipeline that you are aware of? Do you guys plan an article about it? Perhaps a follow up interview with the same VESA rep Craig W.?
Also, there are no leaks whatsoever. Are any DP 2.0 monitors going to be announced alongside RDNA3 launch? It's usually then and during CES that we get some info.
E.g. TB3 cable or TB3 port can be full speed (40 Gbps), but it can be also limited to half speed (20 Gbps).
And usually it isn't clearly stated. Especially with notebooks ports.
It should absolutely shake up the laptop world, imagine when any laptop can be docked to a PCI-E 4.0/5.0 x4 external GPU?
Sometimes, I adore being wrong.
Your corrections to my presumptions on USB4/PCIe tunneling brought great news.
Thanks folks