KetxxxMS, in the UK at least, are breaking the law by not allowing the use of backups. Under user laws the user is legally allowed to make a single backup of ANY media they own.

hell, that is so true!! didnt even think of that!!!!

KetxxxMS, in the UK at least, are breaking the law by not allowing the use of backups. Under user laws the user is legally allowed to make a single backup of ANY media they own.

All they're preventing is people logging into Live with a modded Xbox 360. Who said they forbid you to make back-ups ?

Theoretically if you could run back-ups on your X360 without modding it they wouldn't/couldn't ban you.

More interestingly, in the UK when you buy anything you are also buying the rights to do whatever the hell you want to it. I forget what it falls under in UK law, but its in there somewhere. These two points alone are more than enough for any court in the UK to force M$ to remove these new "counter-measures"

KetxxxMore interestingly, in the UK when you buy anything you are also buying the rights to do whatever the hell you want to it. I forget what it falls under in UK law, but its in there somewhere. These two points alone are more than enough for any court in the UK to force M$ to remove these new "counter-measures"

I'm guessing that is only true for hardware not software (firmware in this specific case) ?

And btw, I think they're only banning accounts in the USA ... for now.

Dark RideAll they're preventing is people logging into Live with a modded Xbox 360. Who said they forbid you to make back-ups ?

The way I read it, M$ are banning people remotely upon detecting modified firmware. However in the UK due to our laws which explicitly state the user of any media has the right to make a single backup are also being cut off from live. M$ surely must be aware they are breaking the law here. They are obliged to remove these "counter-measures" for any UK console gamer. Or update the firmware that ships on UK units to explicitly allow backup media to be used while not conflicting with their "counter-measures". Failure to do either of these directly resorts in violation of UK law.

Dark RideI'm guessing that is only true for hardware not software (firmware in this specific case) ?

And btw, I think they're only banning accounts in the USA ... for now.

Nope, firmware too. When you buy something in the UK you buy ALL rights to it. Obviously to stop things getting out of control there is a limit, which is while you buy all rights and are legally allowed to modify something to fit your purposes, in the case of software for example, you are not allowed to redistribute or charge without written agreement from the manufacturer.

i can see where microsoft are coming from, my sons got an xbox 360 and weve paid full wack for every game...I know of a few people who have done the dvd firmware hack depending on which drive they have, The y have a shit load of games which they pay a fiva each, even ones that arnt out here in the uk... In my opinion these people deserve to banned as they are infringing copyright laws, by rolling off hundreds of copies and selling them on....To be totaly honest i bet most of us know of soemone, whos uncles, brothers mate.. does them.....

KetxxxThe way I read it, M$ are banning people remotely upon detecting modified firmware. However in the UK due to our laws which explicitly state the user of any media has the right to make a single backup are also being cut off from live. M$ surely must be aware they are breaking the law here. They are obliged to remove these "counter-measures" for any UK console gamer. Or update the firmware that ships on UK units to explicitly allow backup media to be used while not conflicting with their "counter-measures". Failure to do either of these directly resorts in violation of UK law.

The thing is though that when you agree to the EULA (the one on xbox live) you agree to not use a modded console. When you break the EULA microsoft has every right to ban you since you didn't hold up your side of the agreement.

I'd rather have Xbox Live free of modder-cheaters and listen to a few of you whine about it, then have Xbox Live allow Modder-Cheaters and have to listen to millions of people Whining about aimbotters.

Leave the Modding for PCs and non-multiplayer devices.

The only reason I want mods is for a bigger hard drive, and support for different a/v formats. But, apparently, they can ban your console for modding the hd too.

KetxxxMore interestingly, in the UK when you buy anything you are also buying the rights to do whatever the hell you want to it. I forget what it falls under in UK law, but its in there somewhere. These two points alone are more than enough for any court in the UK to force M$ to remove these new "counter-measures"

What about the agreement when you sign up for Xbox Live? MS isn't stopping you from making backup copies of your games. You are just violating the Xbox Live agreement - where MS reserves the right to ban you at any time.

Damn the UK owns...

Anywho, I think this whole situation sucks. I was planning to buy a 360 next month and flash it, was gonna use live to update some shit and get betas and demos.

Microsoft really piss me off... Still gonna buy a 360 though...

No lag, amazing games, amazing graphics, and ultra coolness...

SilentAcesYOU DON'T HAVE THIS ISSUES WITH PC's...lol...i will never pay a company to play games online (other than isp of course)...or use a pc that would charge me $10+ a month in addition to my isp bill...

Actually this problem exists in PC's and consoles.

However, with a PC, the software has to remain the constant, while for a console, its the hardware that remains the constant.


This really is nothing new, why is this in the news?

They've been doing this since the first xbox launched on xbox live.

SilentAcesYOU DON'T HAVE THIS ISSUES WITH PC's...lol...i will never pay a company to play games online (other than isp of course)...or use a pc that would charge me $10+ a month in addition to my isp bill...

Well M$ is planning to take Live onto PCs, not sure whether they will charge for that. Not that you have to use it, but it could catch on for other games.

Jimmy 2004Well M$ is planning to take Live onto PCs, not sure whether they will charge for that. Not that you have to use it, but it could catch on for other games.

to have use of full live features such as crossplatform gameing, xbox live messageing and crap like that you have to have a gold xbox live account wich dont realy make sense because people that have a 360 can do all of this on there 360 so whats realy the point

only things i like is the stuff like you being able to upload shit to your pc from forza 2 to make custom car paint and decal schemes and then use them in game

KetxxxMS, in the UK at least, are breaking the law by not allowing the use of backups. Under user laws the user is legally allowed to make a single backup of ANY media they own.

Reread what you just wrote.

They are not banning people for "making" backups.

They are banning for "USE" of backups.

Of which requires circumvention of their protection methods.

Thus is a "tainted" system, and is vulnerable to 1.) piracy, 2.) hacks

While I'm all for modding systems, this is what they are going to do and it won't be changed.

This could be a loophole in the law, actually. There is nothing guaranteeing use of said backups, nor does it say in what method "backing up" is acceptable.

Its very vague, and can very easily be loopholed this way. Theres nothing they can or do against the single player pirating, and/or "backing up".

However, they DO have the right to control their "live" portion of the games.

Perfectly legal.


I still don't understand why this uproar all of the sudden?

Its been this way since day 1 of computer games.

Their will be a workaround for this. MS fixes something, some hacker will rebreak it :)

Eitherway, MS are prohibiting use of backed-up media, which is in direct violation of UK law which states the backing up and use of any purchased software is allowed. we dont play this song and dance game MS has in the US, if we buy any media, we are allowed to make a single copy and use that media.

KetxxxEitherway, MS are prohibiting use of backed-up media, which is in direct violation of UK law which states the backing up and use of any purchased software is allowed. we dont play this song and dance game MS has in the US, if we buy any media, we are allowed to make a single copy and use that media.

This isn;t breaking that at all.

You can USE your copy.

You just cannot use it on LIVE. WHich in turn is a SERVICE not a PRODUCT.

Its just that the products "interact" with LIVE.

Now, if it required live to function in any way shape or form on top of buying the media, THEN it would be in violation.