| Friday, February 22 2008 |
Enjoy. The little dashes indicate unavailable data, and the asterisks indicate unconfirmed data (which should still be reasonably accurate).
Please follow the source link for a chart of the current speculated clocks and/or specifications.
Source: Nordic Hardware
Please follow the source link for a chart of the current speculated clocks and/or specifications.
Source: Nordic Hardware
User comments
farewell ati....
wait...the 98xxs are not new architecture (it was my understanding its 2 8800s in one chip) so am I to assume the 9800GT/X is really a revamped 8800?
by: GSG-9;670724yup, ATi isnt done for, the 9800GT is 300$ and the 3870 is now 180$ making them the budget kings again.
wait...the 98xxs are not new architecture (it was my understanding its 2 8800s in one chip) so am I to assume the 9800GT/X is really a revamped 8800?
so what's the difference between a current g92 gts and a 9800gtx? they both have 128sp, 256 bit memory bus, and similar core clocks... doesn't seen like much of an upgrade... or am i missing something?
im gonna stick with ATI. these "new" nvidia cards are just revised 8series cards. i think ATI as a chance to pull it off this year. and this is coming from a former nvidia fanboy.
by: fitseries3;670765+1
im gonna stick with ATI. these "new" nvidia cards are just revised 8series cards. i think ATI as a chance to pull it off this year. and this is coming from a former nvidia fanboy.
i dont really know what nvidia is thinking, this could have been their chance to finish off ati by bringing out some killer cards, they've completely blown it by the looks of it... oh well, i always preferred ati... i hope they bring out some real new cards and get back on top! :toast:
by: GSG-9;670724
wait...the 98xxs are not new architecture (it was my understanding its 2 8800s in one chip)
The 9800GTX and below are single gpu solutions, the 9800GTX2 is a dual gpu solution.
so what's the difference between a current g92 gts and a 9800gtx? they both have 128sp, 256 bit memory bus, and similar core clocks... doesn't seen like much of an upgrade... or am i missing something?
Lot's of performance tweaks to the architecture, just look at the 9600GT, it's on par with the 3870; or about 3/4th's the 8800GT performance and if that card can do that well, it's going to be pushing 30% to 50% faster than the 8800 series.
Now if ATI can get their 4000 series onto the market faster than nVidia then they might have a pretty good chunk of marketshare coming their way.
that 9800gx2 is not worth the more that a ps3 or an xbox360, nvidia is once again trying to bump up the prices.
:wtf:.. is all i have to say......
Ooooh theres so much comming up now.... if these cards are heavy hitters that might finally make dx10 truely playable for games like crysis. On a side note if the earlier news article was correct ATI's cards will start rolling out in June giving nvidia a 1 month lead. Should be a fun summer.
if what we are looking at is correct.. the x 2 is the top end card.. no magical wonder 9xxx chips here.. just a very good value mid/lower end range..
goodbye ati my arse..
trog
goodbye ati my arse..
trog
ati doesnt have a chance in hell
just because they changed the 8 to 9 doesn't mean anything new. some people need to wake up and read the chart. do you not see that it's the same G92 core? it's not going to be that much better than the 8800gt(s) that's already out. the GX2 may be the top card but that's just because its basically 2 cards in one.
Nvidia, where is this single gpu monster card we've been hearing about?
i believe that if ATI can get the RV7XX cards out this year, they may give nvidia a run for their money.
Nvidia, where is this single gpu monster card we've been hearing about?
i believe that if ATI can get the RV7XX cards out this year, they may give nvidia a run for their money.
Like fitseries3 said, as long as you see a G9* anywhere, it's still based on the 8800 architecture. The GT200 series should be the next-generation architecture which, according to some, will be scheduled to launch early summer '08.
it is my opinion that 3870 isnt the budget king, i think you get more bang for your buck out of a G92 8800 GTS
I think if Nvidia is going the X2 path then their single GPU solution may not be any better then the top line G80 GTX. It's going to be very intersting to see the X2's scaling performance. I'm still happy with my G92 8800GT's. :twitch:
even though AMD/ATI is usually behind im sure they got something up their sleeve, there not just going to let nvidia reign of them much longer, at least if there smart they wont!
This is one of the reasons why they say PC Gaming is dieing. Now i don't feel so bad in spending almost $600 on a PS3. Hardware needs to stop getting so expensive, or i just might see the light and make my way for buying more Console games. I can't justify the price for just a video card. It may beat the PS3 but at that price i just don't give crap.
the real problem is excessive price competition.. amd/ati in essence have started a price war.. nvidia/intel are replying in kind.. cozy competition is just that.. but fight for your life competition usually mean one competitor ends up dead.. with winner takes all as the end result..
trog
trog
The 3870 having great performance (not exeptionnal, but still great) and having all the features it has, IS an exeptionnal buy for HTPC users, even gamers can find them attractive. Personnaly, the onboard audio via HDMI cable is a must. Power usage is optimised in real time, slowing the card when not gaming, noise levels are among the lowest and heat is minimal. This makes the equation really equal between Nvidia and ATI, one may have stellar performance, but the other has more features....
This is a fight that wil last long, beacause both companys don't offer products for different type of users. That being said, they also both have shares in other markets, such as video game consoles, handheld devices, etc...
Stating the any of these two companys is done for is, by far, a mistake!
This is a fight that wil last long, beacause both companys don't offer products for different type of users. That being said, they also both have shares in other markets, such as video game consoles, handheld devices, etc...
Stating the any of these two companys is done for is, by far, a mistake!
Its fine and dandy for those who want to upgrade now from an older card and not just from 8800gt.
Seriously i dont see why we should get a new card from the old 8800 series my Xpertvison(PALIT) 8800gt is the best card ive ever owned!
Seriously i dont see why we should get a new card from the old 8800 series my Xpertvison(PALIT) 8800gt is the best card ive ever owned!
If it has a g92 its a 9xxx not 8xxx the 8800 gt and gts 512 have the next gen gpu not the other way around.
Yeah guys going from the geforce 6 to 7 series wasn't very special, why would 8 to 9 be?
well looks like I'm switching from 2 8800gts's in sli to 2 9800gtx2's in sli!!!! yeeeeyyyyaaaahhh!
by: kieran_fletch;670947I have a 8800gt and it's great but i really do want to upgrade because i cant cant play all of my games (i.e. crysis!) at 1920x1200 with full graphics and antialiasing and no lag. that is what i want to do, and no current card can do that.
Its fine and dandy for those who want to upgrade now from an older card and not just from 8800gt.
Seriously i dont see why we should get a new card from the old 8800 series my Xpertvison(PALIT) 8800gt is the best card ive ever owned!
also new games with better graphics will need faster cards etc
Seems kinda disappointing that they're doing this. Usually with the gen change you get a 2x bump in speed while maintaining the same price (not in ATi's case, half the price with about 10% more speed :D) I can't believe they're still using G92, I though they'd hammered that with the GT/GTS? Personally I think the GX2 is a poor example of engineering, ATi's dual card seems so much more impressive on an engineering level, both cores on the same PCB + superior scaling. The 9800GX2 really looks like a "botched" rush job to get the card out. They've had the performance crown for over a year, by rights they should be out with something more impressive. Maybe they got lazy, slacked off and are only now jumping back because of the 3870X2.
No, they rolled out Geforce 9 cards under-the-radar as Geforce 8 cards to compete with ATi. It looks like I was wrong, and the 9800GX2 really is going to be king of the hill for the 9 series.
by: hat;670997Same thing though isn't it? Using their already existing cores as the next gen high end with what seems to be barely any change (atleast with the GX2 using 2 GTSs). It's still disappointing because if nvidia did release "9 series under the radar" they're still not enough improvement for them to use them as the next gen.
No, they rolled out Geforce 9 cards under-the-radar as Geforce 8 cards to compete with ATi. It looks like I was wrong, and the 9800GX2 really is going to be king of the hill for the 9 series.
needless to say...this jus tbrings me right back to te point when the 2900xt came out...and anandtech did that article that really took an advanced look at the r600 core marchitecture... and words out of anandtechs (editors) mouth were that the r600 technology was very intireresting and that it had more growth potential if ati doesnt abandon it... and so far it hasn't. They also spoke of the g80 tech' and stated that this design was really a great(mature) process but had little room to improve upon in a sense that the technology was so mature any upgrade to it would yield improvements but not by a big standard...
I did and will continue to believe anands perspective about the r600 design and do believe that ati did have a better design...that was underperforming for its specs...and if you look at the 2900xt throughout its life time you can see noticeable improvements in every driver release...and when you look at the the 3800 series especially in perf/per watt in comparison to the 2900xt =big improvement... and in the performance improvements over the 2900xt although not as great as we would want the 3800 series is much more efficient in all aspects of the tech'.
the r770 core has been said to be 50% than that of the r670, and i believe that ati has stated that the r700 will be multiple cores and ati has given the indication that they want to continue to push mutiple gpu thing and this was why the 3870 x2s performance and acceptability was so important... and so far it looks good eventhough it needs work..
this i believe Nvidia knows that they can only push the g80(92) core so much....and i believe that is why we see so much delays in their products. ati can only move up so no matter what they cant go wrong...and they did say that back in november ati was making these 3800 series cards for hardly anything and with the recent price drops to 189 just simply state how much cheaper the 3800s were compared to 2900s( to build). and from what i have heard from a couple of my friends in the industry they are still making a decent profit even at this price point. NVIDIA 'got' its hands full.
I did and will continue to believe anands perspective about the r600 design and do believe that ati did have a better design...that was underperforming for its specs...and if you look at the 2900xt throughout its life time you can see noticeable improvements in every driver release...and when you look at the the 3800 series especially in perf/per watt in comparison to the 2900xt =big improvement... and in the performance improvements over the 2900xt although not as great as we would want the 3800 series is much more efficient in all aspects of the tech'.
the r770 core has been said to be 50% than that of the r670, and i believe that ati has stated that the r700 will be multiple cores and ati has given the indication that they want to continue to push mutiple gpu thing and this was why the 3870 x2s performance and acceptability was so important... and so far it looks good eventhough it needs work..
this i believe Nvidia knows that they can only push the g80(92) core so much....and i believe that is why we see so much delays in their products. ati can only move up so no matter what they cant go wrong...and they did say that back in november ati was making these 3800 series cards for hardly anything and with the recent price drops to 189 just simply state how much cheaper the 3800s were compared to 2900s( to build). and from what i have heard from a couple of my friends in the industry they are still making a decent profit even at this price point. NVIDIA 'got' its hands full.
$599+ retail for gx2? christ...back to the $600+ gfx cards at release, just like the 8800gtx. I remember paying $625 for my gtx when it came out.
Lol, I payed $200 shipped for my 2900pro/xt.
ATI rules... The R770 is supposedly going to have 1 Tflop of processing power and will be over 1 billion transistors. I expect to see quite noticeable performance increases over the 8800 and 9xxx series.
ATI rules... The R770 is supposedly going to have 1 Tflop of processing power and will be over 1 billion transistors. I expect to see quite noticeable performance increases over the 8800 and 9xxx series.
The 9800GX2 will flop(not the good kind) I can smell it.
Does anyone have specs for the 9800GTX yet? Is this thing suppose to be much faster than the previous gen GTX?
What's with both Ati and nVidia using previous gen technology and just sticking a higher model number to their cards? Is there no more innovation left in the PC market :shadedshu :wtf::(
by: 15th Warlock;671284where's the dual, tripple and quad core GPU's at?
What's with both Ati and nVidia using previous gen technology and just sticking a higher model number to their cards? Is there no more innovation left in the PC market :shadedshu :wtf::(
it's just like CPU's.... single core/single socket came first, then single core/dual socket(2xcpu's)
then dual core/single socket.... dual core/dual socket....quad core/single socket...now quad core/dual socket. i expect GPU's will be the same fashion. soon we will hear that someone has a dual core GPU that runs better than a sli/crossfire setup.
it looks to me like gpus will go the same way cpus did when they max out a single core they will start using dual core and after that multi core, in my opinion amd putting 2 3870's on a single pcb is far better engineering than nvidia's dual pcb idea, that just seems lazy if ya ask me!
nvidia like intel are to secure in their "power" they many times take the lazy rout.
look at the pentium-d and core2 quads, they are not native dual(p-d) or quad(c2q) they are 2 chips on one pcb, now it dosnt mean they didnt work, just as 2 pcb gx2's work, but, the designs lazy and as normal with nvidia its about pure bruit force not about doing things smarter.
we shal see, but i look at the 9xxx cards as fail,i have an 8800gt 512, works fine, but drivers are still buggy on xp 64 :P
look at the pentium-d and core2 quads, they are not native dual(p-d) or quad(c2q) they are 2 chips on one pcb, now it dosnt mean they didnt work, just as 2 pcb gx2's work, but, the designs lazy and as normal with nvidia its about pure bruit force not about doing things smarter.
we shal see, but i look at the 9xxx cards as fail,i have an 8800gt 512, works fine, but drivers are still buggy on xp 64 :P
by: ChillyMyst;671322yup that sounds about right,
nvidia like intel are to secure in their "power" they many times take the lazy rout.
look at the pentium-d and core2 quads, they are not native dual(p-d) or quad(c2q) they are 2 chips on one pcb, now it dosnt mean they didnt work, just as 2 pcb gx2's work, but, the designs lazy and as normal with nvidia its about pure bruit force not about doing things smarter.
we shal see, but i look at the 9xxx cards as fail,i have an 8800gt 512, works fine, but drivers are still buggy on xp 64 :P
i guess thats why AMD's logo is "A Smarter Choice"
pretty much, its why i left nvidia and intel for that matter.
i was neither a fan of amd or intel back inthe p3 and older days, both where great chip makers, i loved my k6-2, and my dual celeron and my p3 550e@733, then the p4 came out, and was total crap, all about pure clocks and bruit forceing the market.
i was a huge nvidia fan till.....the fx line, 5800ultra did my respect for them in hard core.....
nvidia tryed to cheat with the fx lines dx9 support, and it ended in EPIC FAIL, the cards where slow as hell, unless you cheated and forced games to run un partial persission mode (made them look worse then normal full persission mode) it was just....arg......a card 1/4 the price of the 5800ultra was about 3-4x as fast in dx9 mode......thats INSAIN.
well they learned but then the 6-7-8 endup being evolutions on a common design theme, just more bruit force involved.
blah, i run an 8800gt, its a good card with blah driver support.
amd/ati are at least trying to innovate and creat new designes insted of just sticking more popes/rops on a core and more shaders.
hell if it had been nvidia going from the x1900 to the 2900 they would have just combine 2 cores and called it a new core, 32rops and 96 shader units..........god that would be a beastly card tho :P
but ati went a diffrent way, and now that ati and amd are one, amd is continuing to head that way, and i think it will work out, the r6*0 cores to me really look like an intermediat design core, they do the job, they have their flaws, but they have alot of potential.
im happy where i am for now, but im excited to see where this "war" will go next, i hope its to ati focing nvidia to innovate again insted of just add more rops/shader units to current designs....
i was neither a fan of amd or intel back inthe p3 and older days, both where great chip makers, i loved my k6-2, and my dual celeron and my p3 550e@733, then the p4 came out, and was total crap, all about pure clocks and bruit forceing the market.
i was a huge nvidia fan till.....the fx line, 5800ultra did my respect for them in hard core.....
nvidia tryed to cheat with the fx lines dx9 support, and it ended in EPIC FAIL, the cards where slow as hell, unless you cheated and forced games to run un partial persission mode (made them look worse then normal full persission mode) it was just....arg......a card 1/4 the price of the 5800ultra was about 3-4x as fast in dx9 mode......thats INSAIN.
well they learned but then the 6-7-8 endup being evolutions on a common design theme, just more bruit force involved.
blah, i run an 8800gt, its a good card with blah driver support.
amd/ati are at least trying to innovate and creat new designes insted of just sticking more popes/rops on a core and more shaders.
hell if it had been nvidia going from the x1900 to the 2900 they would have just combine 2 cores and called it a new core, 32rops and 96 shader units..........god that would be a beastly card tho :P
but ati went a diffrent way, and now that ati and amd are one, amd is continuing to head that way, and i think it will work out, the r6*0 cores to me really look like an intermediat design core, they do the job, they have their flaws, but they have alot of potential.
im happy where i am for now, but im excited to see where this "war" will go next, i hope its to ati focing nvidia to innovate again insted of just add more rops/shader units to current designs....
by: ChillyMyst;671383
pretty much, its why i left nvidia and intel for that matter.
i was neither a fan of amd or intel back inthe p3 and older days, both where great chip makers, i loved my k6-2, and my dual celeron and my p3 550e@733, then the p4 came out, and was total crap, all about pure clocks and bruit forceing the market.
i was a huge nvidia fan till.....the fx line, 5800ultra did my respect for them in hard core.....
nvidia tryed to cheat with the fx lines dx9 support, and it ended in EPIC FAIL, the cards where slow as hell, unless you cheated and forced games to run un partial persission mode (made them look worse then normal full persission mode) it was just....arg......a card 1/4 the price of the 5800ultra was about 3-4x as fast in dx9 mode......thats INSAIN.
well they learned but then the 6-7-8 endup being evolutions on a common design theme, just more bruit force involved.
blah, i run an 8800gt, its a good card with blah driver support.
amd/ati are at least trying to innovate and creat new designes insted of just sticking more popes/rops on a core and more shaders.
hell if it had been nvidia going from the x1900 to the 2900 they would have just combine 2 cores and called it a new core, 32rops and 96 shader units..........god that would be a beastly card tho :P
but ati went a diffrent way, and now that ati and amd are one, amd is continuing to head that way, and i think it will work out, the r6*0 cores to me really look like an intermediat design core, they do the job, they have their flaws, but they have alot of potential.
im happy where i am for now, but im excited to see where this "war" will go next, i hope its to ati focing nvidia to innovate again insted of just add more rops/shader units to current designs....
ha i couldn't agree more!
The drivers for my 8600 gts's are crap! they have big stability problems especially when oced
but yea its def going to be very interesting watching the war over the upcoming months,
currently building a spider platform cant wait till its finished!
I don't have an allegiance to one company, whichever company has the product that fits my needs I go with that one. Right now I'd have to say its ATI, but probably 4-5 months from now I plan to build a monster and if nVidia still has the most performance I'll be back with them. I always think its so stupid to side with one company, unless you have some sort of stake in it...why do you cheer for it on the internet like it matters. Those people who wanted to stick with AMD while Intel was crushing them, fine...have fun, its stupid but go ahead. Likewise years ago when AMD were destroying Intel's P4s. Now I have to say in this moment of time AMD has the better price/performance ratio compared with nVidia. However, I don't think nVidia will be in a hurting situation anytime soon.
I'm sort of new to this whole tech game, but it seems to me nvidia is following a relatively sound business plan. As of right now, nvidia still has most of the med-high to high end market on lock. The g92 has only appeared in 3 of their cards thus far, and I'm sure they are gonna tweak it out for the 9xxx series, and y not. Its a solid chip that still reigns supreme in its price range.
Did anybody get mad when intel released the wolfdale. After all, it was just a die shrink. If they had more competition we would have the 45 quads, thats just how it goes. Nvidia is getting alot of competition from ati in the mid to low end market, so they are focusing on that while throwing out a few cards that will continue to dominate on the high end.
And, personally, I would rather the technology be perfected before being put on the market, as long as some tweaks allow for increased performance. Plus, after the 9xxx series, you would expect the numbering system to change, and probably the tech will as well. Its all just speculation at this point though.
Did anybody get mad when intel released the wolfdale. After all, it was just a die shrink. If they had more competition we would have the 45 quads, thats just how it goes. Nvidia is getting alot of competition from ati in the mid to low end market, so they are focusing on that while throwing out a few cards that will continue to dominate on the high end.
And, personally, I would rather the technology be perfected before being put on the market, as long as some tweaks allow for increased performance. Plus, after the 9xxx series, you would expect the numbering system to change, and probably the tech will as well. Its all just speculation at this point though.
i wouldnt say that the 8800GS undercuts the HD3850 on price and the 9600GT ties the 3870 on price and those are the targets, the 8800GS will vanish id imagine with 9600GS. What i do find funny is the new lowend is die shurnk G84 cores pretty much
by: candle_86;670838
ati doesnt have a chance in hell
:roll:
if ATI can trump NV by simply redesigning and making a dual gpu card, their nxt gen cards coming out, especially if dual core are gonna crush some NV
they already have the innovation and experience at designing all-in-one card pcb's, so they are already a step ahead of nv in that respect.
so when it comes to multiple gpu cards, are NV still gonna be using multiple pcbs? coz thats just not smart, and seriously lacks innovation.
So whenever they tout 9XXX x2 or whatever, its really 2 cards, which therefore should be compared to 2x HDxxx x2 cards ;)
by: SiXx`;670780The 9600GT is SLOWER than the 3870. The 8800GT is about 5% faster than the 3870 on code optimised for nvidia.
Lot's of performance tweaks to the architecture, just look at the 9600GT, it's on par with the 3870; or about 3/4th's the 8800GT performance and if that card can do that well, it's going to be pushing 30% to 50% faster than the 8800 series.
by: mandelore;671501Thats what im talking about!
:roll:
if ATI can trump NV by simply redesigning and making a dual gpu card, their nxt gen cards coming out, especially if dual core are gonna crush some NV
they already have the innovation and experience at designing all-in-one card pcb's, so they are already a step ahead of nv in that respect.
so when it comes to multiple gpu cards, are NV still gonna be using multiple pcbs? coz thats just not smart, and seriously lacks innovation.
So whenever they tout 9XXX x2 or whatever, its really 2 cards, which therefore should be compared to 2x HDxxx x2 cards ;)
its a single card, im sorry you can't realize that. Dual PCB offers an advantage over single PCB, and that is length, in case you didnt know the 8800GTS 512 board is already long and to double that circutity will make it 75% longer. So a single PCB won't work. Also the GPU isnt geting cooled by the same hot air, oh and a water block should be easier for the dual PCB also as you just stick one in between them and its cooled. What i smell is a bunch of ATI fanbois of yester year grasping at straws
by: candle_86;671873length is an issue i agree but the 3870 x2 is only as long as a gtx
its a single card, im sorry you can't realize that. Dual PCB offers an advantage over single PCB, and that is length, in case you didnt know the 8800GTS 512 board is already long and to double that circutity will make it 75% longer. So a single PCB won't work. Also the GPU isnt geting cooled by the same hot air, oh and a water block should be easier for the dual PCB also as you just stick one in between them and its cooled. What i smell is a bunch of ATI fanbois of yester year grasping at straws
the x2 was not 75% longer than the 3870
by: candle_86;671873I've never played with water cooling but that doesn't sound quite right.. doesn't the block have to be relatively tight against the chip? That would suggest that you can't just slide it inbetween but would probably have to slide it in then expand it to a tight fight. While possible I can't imagine that being easier or more practical than the current convention. Along the same lines of reasoning I'd think removing the fan in the first place would be a pain in the ass b/c the usual / cleanest access point is completely blocked off. The only thing that should be able to change that would be if the two PCBs would be detachable but I haven't heard anything along those lines.
its a single card, im sorry you can't realize that. Dual PCB offers an advantage over single PCB, and that is length, in case you didnt know the 8800GTS 512 board is already long and to double that circutity will make it 75% longer. So a single PCB won't work. Also the GPU isnt geting cooled by the same hot air, oh and a water block should be easier for the dual PCB also as you just stick one in between them and its cooled. What i smell is a bunch of ATI fanbois of yester year grasping at straws
The length arguement also sounds off for the reason someone else mentioned. For Nvidia that might be an advantage but by itself it's not really an advantage b/c it's appearently possible to do it while not exceeding previous precendents.
by: candle_86;671873funny, the x2 3870 isnt any longer then the normal cards.......its surly not longer then my 8800gt.
its a single card, im sorry you can't realize that. Dual PCB offers an advantage over single PCB, and that is length, in case you didnt know the 8800GTS 512 board is already long and to double that circutity will make it 75% longer. So a single PCB won't work. Also the GPU isnt geting cooled by the same hot air, oh and a water block should be easier for the dual PCB also as you just stick one in between them and its cooled. What i smell is a bunch of ATI fanbois of yester year grasping at straws
remmber their are ways with smart design to avoidthe pitfalls you speek of.
more pcb layers for example allow higher complexity and lower noise, thats why most ram sticks today at 6 or even 8 layer pcb's, so your argument tho "logical" is also false.
by: ChillyMyst;672418were you saying that my argument was false or someone else?
funny, the x2 3870 isnt any longer then the normal cards.......its surly not longer then my 8800gt.
remmber their are ways with smart design to avoidthe pitfalls you speek of.
more pcb layers for example allow higher complexity and lower noise, thats why most ram sticks today at 6 or even 8 layer pcb's, so your argument tho "logical" is also false.
by: freaksavior;670716
farewell ati....
lol with htose prices ati will be ontop!
by: TooFast;672564:respect: Ati
lol with htose prices ati will be ontop!
by: TooFast;672564
lol with htose prices ati will be ontop!
Those prices are normal these days. Ati will continue to offer bang for your buck competition in the mid to low range while nvidia continues to dominate the high end market. Thus, nvidia will most likely continue to be on top, unless ati's r700 can offer competition to nvdia in all levels of the market, which will lower those prices. And lets hope they do, and all the good looking games due out this year live up to their hype and fully utilize these cards, and we could be in for a very nice year for gaming.:)
by: jbunch07;672531no that his "it would have to be 75% longer" statement was false.
were you saying that my argument was false or someone else?
Nvidia cards are bigger but there overall design is more efficent. The way the ram is laid out provides reduced latency for one by having the traces all the same length. The Power circutry is laid out well and away from other parts to cause less signal interferance. These are things i care about. The 3870x2 doesnt take into account such things and for that one problem it does not interest me. Id rather have Nvidia's option simply because it also contains proven realibility and design where as AMD skimped and went cheap, look at how there ram is arranged and how the power circutry is for one. No id rather keep proven tech and go with what works and what was changed for a reason not the slap job AMD did.
your honestly grasping at starws to prove that Nvidia is unable, trust me the worlds biggest add in board GPU maker could but its very clear there engineers are approcaing this to give the best overall benifits and not sacrafice quality. Sure get an AMD its a fine card but at the end of the day the GX2 will out preform it hands down
your honestly grasping at starws to prove that Nvidia is unable, trust me the worlds biggest add in board GPU maker could but its very clear there engineers are approcaing this to give the best overall benifits and not sacrafice quality. Sure get an AMD its a fine card but at the end of the day the GX2 will out preform it hands down
1 Nvidia's dual design will be hot as stated by nvidia.
2 Nvidia's pricing scheme is ridiculous.
3 Ppl fail to see what ati is doing in regards the 3870x2, in my eyes it is merely a test bed for their future cards... which will be going down the same rout...
IMHO 2 heads are mostly better than one...and if ati can make a dual card that is more power efficient or just about the same as Nvidia's single card design while being around the same price and performs better...kudos all the way to DAAMIT.
while i do agree with those of you who stated that they would go for a product that is true and tried (g80/g92) core, like ive said before and will continue to say...ATI r600 core shows promise and can easily surpass the technology of yesterday (g80/g92)...it is the same as intel vs amd...amd owned got lazy then intel struck back...the core is a very superior design but it was something new...
comparing nvidia and daamit...in each generation of the nvidia cards leading up to where we're at today(6-9), the performance boost is acceptable but no leaps and bounds over mountains...let me emphasize this (in most cases). i do believe that ati has managed to double each cards performance in most cases.
as far as naming scheme goes i believe both company has done a soso job...but it is understandable. ie the 1800s from ati where a hot mess and they were quickly subdued by the 1900 series...so a new name sake to differentiate the two in my eyes was inevitable...because if they did not differentiate the refined product would still have they same name and us as consumers would lose because unless a retailer/e-tailer can guarantee that they would be only shipping the refined model we would still end up in a hot mess that was called the 1800. perfect example the q6600 with/with-out the g0 stepping...
not that the q6600 was a bad product but the confusion on which you were receving.
2 Nvidia's pricing scheme is ridiculous.
3 Ppl fail to see what ati is doing in regards the 3870x2, in my eyes it is merely a test bed for their future cards... which will be going down the same rout...
IMHO 2 heads are mostly better than one...and if ati can make a dual card that is more power efficient or just about the same as Nvidia's single card design while being around the same price and performs better...kudos all the way to DAAMIT.
while i do agree with those of you who stated that they would go for a product that is true and tried (g80/g92) core, like ive said before and will continue to say...ATI r600 core shows promise and can easily surpass the technology of yesterday (g80/g92)...it is the same as intel vs amd...amd owned got lazy then intel struck back...the core is a very superior design but it was something new...
comparing nvidia and daamit...in each generation of the nvidia cards leading up to where we're at today(6-9), the performance boost is acceptable but no leaps and bounds over mountains...let me emphasize this (in most cases). i do believe that ati has managed to double each cards performance in most cases.
as far as naming scheme goes i believe both company has done a soso job...but it is understandable. ie the 1800s from ati where a hot mess and they were quickly subdued by the 1900 series...so a new name sake to differentiate the two in my eyes was inevitable...because if they did not differentiate the refined product would still have they same name and us as consumers would lose because unless a retailer/e-tailer can guarantee that they would be only shipping the refined model we would still end up in a hot mess that was called the 1800. perfect example the q6600 with/with-out the g0 stepping...
not that the q6600 was a bad product but the confusion on which you were receving.
i am not a fanboi either... i will bad mouth intel, nvidia, daamit who ever especially creative...as i own products from each.
ati vs nvidia
8800 gt > 3870 performance...hd>gt everything else...and yes everything else does matter.
g80/g92 vs r600 tech i say tech because this is basically a radical redesign(complete change)
g80/g92 is only greater at this given moment and this is really pending on ati's rumored r700/r770 core which should be signifcantly better than the r600/670 and this is why i feel nvidia has continued to rush out these products...there would be no 8800gt back in nov if the 38*0 wasn't such an improvement over the 2900 in all aspects... so we have ati to thank for nvidia rushing there products to the line...like i said ati's technology as more growth potential than Nvidias....its like having an NBA draft today and the first guy you have to draft is a center...and you have nvidia seeing amds potential and takes shaq over yao..yes shaq is a great player but he is a decline stage he can only give you so much until he over do it....and i feel that this approach that nvidia is taking will eventually put ati back on top...
which is great because we as consumers need the competition to continue so that we wont have overpriced cards...
to be a total antagonist... those that are really buying the 9800 x2 are just buying to play games like crysis (cry-engine 2) because they know nvidia shines in that department...all pun intended...
say what u want i own a 8800gt, 3870 and i will be getting another 3870 to finish my unfinished spider...(no phenom) they just plain suck for what i want...they dont really suck but i just expected more, once the phenom hits 3.0ghz retail then i will purchase one and for my intel system once the q9450 drops i will be getting it eventhough my 6420 @ 3.0 is perfect for my htpc i just want a fantastic pc. period.....
on a side note i remember when to use a pc back in the days i would normally have to hit up my local library...now my lil' bro has a pc in his room from he was about 9...
from a athlon xp thoroughbread-to-athlon 64 3000 venice-to athlon 64 3500-to-athlon x2 3800-to-once i get my phenom-a x2 5200-and also-e6420... i cant believe he will have two pcs.. he loves it when i upgrade because he gets a faster pc everytime...i dont even want to mention gfx cards because he has moved from the likes of a 9200-9600-9800-g6600-x800-x800gto2-1550-1950 pro-8800gt-and he is waiting for my next purchase like a hungry lion pouncing on its pray because he will either get a 3870 cross fired or another gt to sli with...and he is just 12...i think i spend too much on pcs...
the moral though of all of this is just to say "bring on the competition and innovation"
i live for this stuff.
ati vs nvidia
8800 gt > 3870 performance...hd>gt everything else...and yes everything else does matter.
g80/g92 vs r600 tech i say tech because this is basically a radical redesign(complete change)
g80/g92 is only greater at this given moment and this is really pending on ati's rumored r700/r770 core which should be signifcantly better than the r600/670 and this is why i feel nvidia has continued to rush out these products...there would be no 8800gt back in nov if the 38*0 wasn't such an improvement over the 2900 in all aspects... so we have ati to thank for nvidia rushing there products to the line...like i said ati's technology as more growth potential than Nvidias....its like having an NBA draft today and the first guy you have to draft is a center...and you have nvidia seeing amds potential and takes shaq over yao..yes shaq is a great player but he is a decline stage he can only give you so much until he over do it....and i feel that this approach that nvidia is taking will eventually put ati back on top...
which is great because we as consumers need the competition to continue so that we wont have overpriced cards...
to be a total antagonist... those that are really buying the 9800 x2 are just buying to play games like crysis (cry-engine 2) because they know nvidia shines in that department...all pun intended...
say what u want i own a 8800gt, 3870 and i will be getting another 3870 to finish my unfinished spider...(no phenom) they just plain suck for what i want...they dont really suck but i just expected more, once the phenom hits 3.0ghz retail then i will purchase one and for my intel system once the q9450 drops i will be getting it eventhough my 6420 @ 3.0 is perfect for my htpc i just want a fantastic pc. period.....
on a side note i remember when to use a pc back in the days i would normally have to hit up my local library...now my lil' bro has a pc in his room from he was about 9...
from a athlon xp thoroughbread-to-athlon 64 3000 venice-to athlon 64 3500-to-athlon x2 3800-to-once i get my phenom-a x2 5200-and also-e6420... i cant believe he will have two pcs.. he loves it when i upgrade because he gets a faster pc everytime...i dont even want to mention gfx cards because he has moved from the likes of a 9200-9600-9800-g6600-x800-x800gto2-1550-1950 pro-8800gt-and he is waiting for my next purchase like a hungry lion pouncing on its pray because he will either get a 3870 cross fired or another gt to sli with...and he is just 12...i think i spend too much on pcs...
the moral though of all of this is just to say "bring on the competition and innovation"
i live for this stuff.
by: candle_86;672738*sniffs air* i smell fanboi.........nvidiot fanboi at that........
Nvidia cards are bigger but there overall design is more efficent. The way the ram is laid out provides reduced latency for one by having the traces all the same length. The Power circutry is laid out well and away from other parts to cause less signal interferance. These are things i care about. The 3870x2 doesnt take into account such things and for that one problem it does not interest me. Id rather have Nvidia's option simply because it also contains proven realibility and design where as AMD skimped and went cheap, look at how there ram is arranged and how the power circutry is for one. No id rather keep proven tech and go with what works and what was changed for a reason not the slap job AMD did.
your honestly grasping at starws to prove that Nvidia is unable, trust me the worlds biggest add in board GPU maker could but its very clear there engineers are approcaing this to give the best overall benifits and not sacrafice quality. Sure get an AMD its a fine card but at the end of the day the GX2 will out preform it hands down
ok first off, nvidia and ati have both used the weird memory layout on their cards, its not that big an issue, i know you think its ungoddly important, but really its not.
second, nvidias design is HOT and cant be effecently cooled the 7950gx2 couldnt eather, because it was such a horrible design, traps the head inside between 2 pcb's.
3rd, the design of the 3870x2 is a first gen card and dispite that its very well made, no matter what you think, ati/amd have a long trackrecord of making very sturdy products, nvidia has a spotty record in my experiance.
examples, the fx line, what a pile of crap they where, some models of 6800/7600/7800 cards had HIGH fail rates on NVIDIA build pcb's, my buddys been thru 8 7800gt's and is about to have to rma another one, because it keeps artifacting, its a design error on the spicific model he has, he thankfully got it from a supplyer with life time warr.
the company even admits that theres not much they can do to fix the problme because its a known issue with that perticular model, the volt ciructes arent cooled properly or something.
ati has had some CRAPPY cards in the distant past, but i havent seen any large numbers of any one card/model returned that used the ati/amd pcb's, seen a good number of reports of the pcb's on the 1950gt/pro cards made by a 3rd party design having problems and being returned
oh and i wasnt trying to make nvidia look unreliable, hardware wise they are just fine for now, other then that first shipment of 8800gt's that had high rates of fails or issues, where nvidia isnt reliable is in the driver dept, they have a horrible reputation for removing fetures to new drivers when they dont work(dissabled tv out on some drivers under vista for example) because they are to worried about getting 5extra fps in some stupid game.
or the yv12 color spacing bugg that has been around since the begining of 2007 and is still not fixed on all systems/drivers, nvida has KNOWN about these things for YEARS and hasnt spent the time to fix it because they are to fucking busy making their drivers just a few fps faster in whatever the top benching game is this week..........
on the other hand i have never had that problem with ati/amd, my 9600/9800/x800/x1900 all got monthy driver fixes that didnt just boost perf in a couple games but also fixed buggs that where found and reported in older drivers, if you found a color spacing issue with an ati card, reported it, they would get back to you, ask for details, then many times give you a beta driver to test to see if that fixes it.
try that with nvidia, report a bug via email, you at best get back an formletter email that will lead to NOTHING, no fix, hell no real responce...........
and mind you my systems got an 8800gt in it at the moment.
Erm, why are people believing that the G92 GT and GTS were the last of the G92 models to EVER be released? Where is that stated? As soon as the GT was released people questioned a GTS, and then it was released and they enquired over a GTX etc. Well, there's the G92 roadmap, just like we all pondered over.
Where did Nvidia state that these later to be released GPUs are NOT using the G92 tech, and are in fact a completely brand new tech?
Where did Nvidia state that these later to be released GPUs are NOT using the G92 tech, and are in fact a completely brand new tech?
9800gtx better be over double hd3870 speeds.
by: newconroer;672992The new Nvidia 9800xxx cards were supposed to utilize the G100 core. This information/rumour was all over the web a while back and was at some point confirmed by Nvidia. It seems that this has somehow changed now and the G100 has been replaced by several different flavours of the G92 core.
Erm, why are people believing that the G92 GT and GTS were the last of the G92 models to EVER be released? Where is that stated? As soon as the GT was released people questioned a GTS, and then it was released and they enquired over a GTX etc. Well, there's the G92 roadmap, just like we all pondered over.
Where did Nvidia state that these later to be released GPUs are NOT using the G92 tech, and are in fact a completely brand new tech?
http://www.mvktech.net/content/view/3911/1/
http://shyamkol.blogspot.com/2007/12/nvidias-g100-to-roll-in-march.html
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=125&Itemid=1
by: jpierce55;673063well i dont know about the 3870 but the 3870x2 is already at par with gtx and ultra, so unless the 9800 gtx is going to be twice as fast as the current 8800 gtx i would say your outa luck, but i imagine it will be about 30% 45% tops faster than the 8800gtx
9800gtx better be over double hd3870 speeds.
what we know is, its 512bit bus, super fast shaders and core clock. What we dont know is how many rops got locked and TMU's and that makes a massive diffrence, notice Nvidia is being hush hush on rops and TMU's if there are more in the G92 we could be very well looking at the future of Nvidia. As for the comparision, no your dead wrong, Nvidia sat on its lurals once and only once in histroy its when the made the geforce4. Never again will Nvidia do that, they are set at beating ATI no matter what and are very good at it in recent years. As for generation speed, are you high, the 7800GTX 256mb was as fast as 2x6800 Ultras in SLI and the 8800GTX was over twice as fast. Nvidia released the G70 and G71 as hold overs only to work on G80 and its obvious of this because of what we saw in Nov 2006 when the x1950 XTX no longer looked worth a damn and looked more like a midrange. Nvidia right now is leading, and we have no idea what the G92 can do, as there is no way an extra 60 some odd transistors account for PCIe 2.0 circutry.
by: candle_86;674258Where were you getting that info? VR-zone just put up an article today (http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/GeForce_9800_GTX_Card_Photos_%26_Specs_Unveiled/5599.html) - Going by the info there, the bus is 256 not 512, the shader clock is 1683 (vs 1625 on the 9600 GT, 1500 on the 8800 GT), core clock @ 673 (vs 650 on the 9600 GT, 600 on the 8800 GT). The 9600 & 8800 GT #s are from Nv's site.
what we know is, its 512bit bus, super fast shaders and core clock. What we dont know is how many rops got locked and TMU's and that makes a massive diffrence, notice Nvidia is being hush hush on rops and TMU's if there are more in the G92 we could be very well looking at the future of Nvidia. As for the comparision, no your dead wrong, Nvidia sat on its lurals once and only once in histroy its when the made the geforce4. Never again will Nvidia do that, they are set at beating ATI no matter what and are very good at it in recent years. As for generation speed, are you high, the 7800GTX 256mb was as fast as 2x6800 Ultras in SLI and the 8800GTX was over twice as fast. Nvidia released the G70 and G71 as hold overs only to work on G80 and its obvious of this because of what we saw in Nov 2006 when the x1950 XTX no longer looked worth a damn and looked more like a midrange. Nvidia right now is leading, and we have no idea what the G92 can do, as there is no way an extra 60 some odd transistors account for PCIe 2.0 circutry.
Edit: Also going by http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=241354 , it would seem the Rops have stayed the same (the 8800 GT had 16 right?)
I think it's too premature to say goodbye to ati. Remember there are alot more uses for graphics cards other then playing crysis. If your looking to get 60 fps @1920x1200 or 2560x1600 in crysis, you'll be waiting for a long while. I use my computer for everything, i know the 3870x2 is great for blueray and rendering, it kept me from buying a firegl or quadro. I mean really it's great to get 114 fps in games but it's not really necessary since you can't even see past 60 lol. When it comes to overall price per performance ATI is hands down your choice. I'd rather stay with ATI and suffer 10 fps then pay almost double for Nvidia products.