2065 Users online, 8.20 mbps
Quick Search
Already a member?
Username:
Password:
Register Here!
New Forum Posts
00:35 by twicksisted
4870- NOT satisfied (191)
00:34 by Joshmcmillan
Free 2GB USB drive. NOT SPAM! LOOK. (33)
00:32 by lemonadesoda
Dead Pixel? (11)
00:31 by exodusprime133...
TPU's F@H Team (1517)
00:15 by Rap Dog
Keyboard keys stick in games (0)
00:13 by Widjaja
Race Driver: GRID Clubhouse (45)



Last Articles


Popular Articles
Thursday, April 24 2008
Thanks to TG Daily we can now talk about the very soon to be released ATI HD 4800 series of graphics cards with more details. One week ahead of its presumable release date, general specifications of the new cards have been revealed. All Radeon 4800 graphics will use the 55nm TSMC produced RV770 GPU, that include over 800 million transistors, 480 stream processors or shader units (96+384), 32 texture units, 16 ROPs, a 256-bit memory controller (512-bit for the Radeon 4870 X2) and native GDDR3/4/5 support as reported before. At first, AMD's graphics division will launch three new cards - Radeon HD 4850, 4870 and 4870 X2:
  • ATI Radeon HD 4850 - 650MHz/850MHz/1140MHz core/shader/memory clock speeds, 20.8 GTexel/s (32 TMU x 0.65 GHz) fill-rate, available in 256MB/512MB of GDDR3 memory or 512MB of GDDR5 memory clocked at 1.73GHz
  • ATI Radeon HD 4870 - 850MHz/1050MHz/1940MHz core/shader/memory clock speeds, 27.2 GTexel/s (32 TMU x 0.85 GHz) fill-rate, available in 1GB GDDR5 version only
  • ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - unknown core/shader clock speeds, available with 2048MB of GDDR5 memory clocked at 1730MHz
The 4850 256MB GDDR3 version will arrive as the successor of the 3850 256MB with a price in the sub-$200 range. The 4850 512MB GDDR3 should retail for $229, while the 4850 512MB GDDR5 will set you back about $249-269. The 1GB GDDR5 powered 4870 will retail between $329-349. The flagship Radeon HD 4870 X2 will ship later this year for $499.

Source: TG Daily
posted by malware - 11:00 PM |  Related News

User comments
by choppy (April 24th - 11:51 AM) - Reply
sic, i hope this owns a 9600gt which i was going to buy in a couple weeks!
by btarunr (April 24th - 11:53 AM) - Reply
So the core is now split to geometry and shader domains with their own clock-gens. Good. close to 4 GHz memory on the HD4870? What for?
by choppy (April 24th - 11:55 AM) - Reply
by: btarunr;763955
So the core is now split to geometry and shader domains with their own clock-gens. Good. close to 4 GHz memory on the HD4870? What for?
what do you mean what for?! speed..performance...
by HTC (April 24th - 11:55 AM) - Reply
It seams that the GDDR5 memory, power usage wise, is FAR better :)
by btarunr (April 24th - 11:55 AM) - Reply
by: choppy;763956
what do you mean what for?! speed..performance...


Yeah and all that bandwidth is going to be put to use. :rolleyes:

It's more of a marketing feature than something that will credit performance genuinely. GDDR5 ZOMG!
by choppy (April 24th - 12:04 PM) - Reply
by: btarunr;763959
Yeah and all that bandwidth is going to be put to use. :rolleyes:

It's more of a marketing feature than something that will credit performance genuinely. GDDR5 ZOMG!
games are getting bigger and demanding much more from gfx cards, within the next year you will understand why!
by btarunr (April 24th - 12:09 PM) - Reply
by: choppy;763964
games are getting bigger and demanding much more from gfx cards, within the next year you will understand why!
How much has GDDR4 contributed to the performance leadership of current ATI GPU's over its competition using supposedly slower GDDR3 ? Not much. While I agree that since the memory bus is narrow (256bit for both RV670 and G92), faster memory standards help. But you need a GPU that requires lot of memory bandwidth and that can utilize all that bandwidth. If it doesn't, it remains more of a marketing feature. Watch how the HD3870 X2 uses GDDR3 memory but performs on-par/better than 2x HD3870 which has the faster memory.
by sinner33 (April 24th - 12:10 PM) - Reply
Wonder how much faster these 4870's are compared to 3870's? :confused:
by HTC (April 24th - 12:14 PM) - Reply
by: btarunr;763967
How much has GDDR4 contributed to the performance leadership of current ATI GPU's over its competition using supposedly slower GDDR3 ? Not much. While I agree that since the memory bus is narrow (256bit for both RV670 and G92), faster memory standards help. But you need a GPU that requires lot of memory bandwidth and that can utilize all that bandwidth. If it doesn't, it remains more of a marketing feature. Watch how the HD3870 X2 uses GDDR3 memory but performs on-par/better than 2x HD3870 which has the faster memory.
That could be because of this:

The graphics processor itself will integrate more texture memory units (TMUs), which is the Achilles' heel of the R6xx generation: 32 TMUs in the RV770 will challenge the 56/64 units of Nvidia's G92/G92b.
Not sure, though.
by btarunr (April 24th - 12:20 PM) - Reply
Interesting. Good to know ATI is addressing all issues that held back its previous generations. I'm very optimistic about the RV770 because of a much stronger shader domain of the GPU.
by Exceededgoku (April 24th - 12:28 PM) - Reply
Why not more TMUs??? Why do they always have to be conservative in the parts that matter? I'll probably still get one though lol.
by magibeg (April 24th - 12:59 PM) - Reply
Well it could be cost related for why they don't add more TMU's or maybe, just maybe ati cards are not exactly like nvidia cards and are held back by different things :-O
by mdm-adph (April 24th - 1:03 PM) - Reply
Hooray for independent shader speeds. :toast:
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 1:03 PM) - Reply
by: malware;763951
ATI Radeon HD 4870 - 850MHz/1050MHz/1940MHz core/shader/memory clock speeds, 27.2 GTexel/s (32 TMU x 0.85 GHz) fill-rate, available in 1GB GDDR5 version only
What happened to "the 4870 will be the first mass-production GPU with a clock speed higher than 1GHz"?
by mdm-adph (April 24th - 1:07 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764004
What happened to "the 4870 will be the first mass-production GPU with a clock speed higher than 1GHz"?


I think it got lost in the same dimension as 100% efficient SLI. :p
by Odin Eidolon (April 24th - 1:08 PM) - Reply
Nasty! ;););)
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 1:09 PM) - Reply
by: mdm-adph;764005
I think it got lost in the same dimension as 100% efficient SLI. :p
Can you show me an article actually claiming SLI will be 100% efficient?
by mdm-adph (April 24th - 1:11 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764008
Can you show me an article actually claiming SLI will be 100% efficient?
Nope, cause it's impossible. OOOHH BURNSAUCE.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 1:13 PM) - Reply
by: mdm-adph;764012
Nope, cause it's impossible. OOOHH BURNSAUCE.
It is impossible because the claim was never made. However, the 1GHz claim actually WAS made. It is just more marketing BS put out by the graphics cards companies to trap the fanboys.
by MrMilli (April 24th - 1:16 PM) - Reply
RV770 vs RV670:
MEM: 123GB/s vs 72GB/s --> +70%
TEX: 27200 vs 12400 --> +120%
GFLOP: 1008 vs 497 --> +102%

My guess is that it will be faster than 3870X2 since that's 2xRV670 at around 70% efficiency. I guess close to or matching 9800GX2. But for sure much faster than 8800GTX, like some suggest.
(based on these results: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2008/test_asus_radeon_hd_3850_x2/20/#abschnitt_performancerating_qualitaet )

Other things to keep in mind is the transistor count and die size advantage ATI will have and already has. RV670 is already smaller than G94 and almost half of G92.
This advantage will only grow with RV770 vs GT200. That's around 800M vs almost 1.1B transistors. I know GT200 will be faster but at what cost?
by mdm-adph (April 24th - 1:17 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764014
It is impossible because the claim was never made. However, the 1GHz claim actually WAS made. It is just more marketing BS put out by the graphics cards companies to trap the fanboys.
Oh, I agree about the general nature of marketing BS, but how do you know that the 4870 X2 isn't going to be clocked at 1 GHz?
by btarunr (April 24th - 1:19 PM) - Reply
Maybe because the shader domain of the GPU's have a 1.00+ GHz clock, it would have eluded speculators to thinking the GPU itself was 1+ GHz clocked. Maybe they didn't know the RV770 was split into geometry and shader domains with their own clocks.
by HTC (April 24th - 1:20 PM) - Reply
by: mdm-adph;764017
Oh, I agree about the general nature of marketing BS, but how do you know that the 4870 X2 isn't going to be clocked at 1 GHz?
Whether or not it will be clocked @ 1 GHz isn't what's important: to me, it would be EXTREMELY significant IF 1 single 4850 could match a 3870x2 in performance. Don't know if it can, though.
by mdm-adph (April 24th - 1:23 PM) - Reply
by: HTC;764020
Whether or not it will be clocked @ 1 GHz isn't what's important: to me, it would be EXTREMELY significant IF 1 single 4850 could match a 3870x2 in performance. Don't know if it can, though.
That'd be cool, but there's no way -- a 3870x2 can sure throw out some pixels.
by magibeg (April 24th - 1:25 PM) - Reply
So should i just sell my 3870 now and pick up one of these bad boys when they come out. Waiting will only make the value of my card decrease most likely :(
by HTC (April 24th - 1:25 PM) - Reply
by: mdm-adph;764021
That'd be cool, but there's no way -- a 3870x2 can sure throw out some pixels.
Dunno, but it sure would put the graph market in full throttle, so to speak!
by CY:G (April 24th - 1:34 PM) - Reply
Anyone knows when are this going to be released, im thinking of selling my 3870 if they get released in the following months..
by batmang (April 24th - 1:38 PM) - Reply
by: sinner33;763970
Wonder how much faster these 4870's are compared to 3870's? :confused:
I'm gonna guess 15% at default clocks.
by magibeg (April 24th - 1:44 PM) - Reply
by: batmang;764031
I'm gonna guess 15% at default clocks.
That seems extremely conservative. 320 stream processors to 480 is like a 50% increase in that alone. Then theres the 1050mhz shader speed to the 775. The faster memory should help a little, the fact its 1GB. I would say a clear 50%+ increase if i had to guess.
by lemonadesoda (April 24th - 1:45 PM) - Reply
Interesting.

Seems like the HD 4850 512MB GDDR5 is the winner here. Best price/performance/power ratio.

Unfortunately, the jury is still out on raw horsepower. How much faster will the 4850 be compared to the 3850? 50% more shaders. 15% faster RAM, 0% extra ROPs. Higher power consumption, (unless switching to GDDR5).

I would have like to see MORE HORSEPOWER, e.g. Texture units and ROPs, etc. I'm not convinced the extra 50% shaders will do much more than allow 8x AA rather than 4x AA, but still with all other settings the same. I hope I'm wrong.

Excluding the move to GDDR5 (optional), the new ATi cards seem more like a "3950". I dont think they deserve a "4" at the front. After all, performance wise, it's like a X800XT over X800Pro.
by btarunr (April 24th - 1:46 PM) - Reply
by: magibeg;764034
That seems extremely conservative. 320 stream processors to 480 is like a 66% increase in that alone.
Ehm..that's 50%
by Pinchy (April 24th - 1:46 PM) - Reply
All paper talk. Lets just wait for the benchies :)...

We all know what happened with the "awesome" specs of the 2900's.
by magibeg (April 24th - 1:47 PM) - Reply
by: btarunr;764038
Ehm..that's 50%
Yea sorry i corrected that after. From a % basis its 66% UP from 320 although in an absolute sense its only 50% more shaders total.
by MrMilli (April 24th - 1:53 PM) - Reply
by: batmang;764031
I'm gonna guess 15% at default clocks.
Did you read what i said here:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=764016&postcount=21

It will be close to double. But it seems none of you is counting on ANY architectural improvements. Why?
by lemonadesoda (April 24th - 2:00 PM) - Reply

The Radeon 3800 series had a serious flaw called texture low fill-rate, which was addressed by ATI with an increased number of TMUs (Texture Memory Unit) from 16 to 32. The specifications indicate that 16 TMUs can address 80 textures on the fly, which means that 32 units should be able to fetch 160 in the RV770: This should allow the new GPU to catch up with Nvidia’s G92 design. However, the G92 has 64 TMUs that were enabled gradually (some SKUs shipped with 56), resulting in a fill-rate performance that beat the original 8800GTX and Ultra models.

ATI’s RV770 will be rated at a fill rate of 20.8-27.2 GTexel/s (excluding X2 version), which is on the lower end of the GeForce 9 series (9600 GT: 20.8; 9800 GTX: 43.2 9800 GX2: 76.8).


Interesting. Perhaps the "texture fill bottleneck fix" will mean big improvements in SOME situations.
by mdm-adph (April 24th - 2:01 PM) - Reply
by: lemonadesoda;764035

Excluding the move to GDDR5 (optional), the new ATi cards seem more like a "3950". I dont think they deserve a "4" at the front. After all, performance wise, it's like a X800XT over X800Pro.
Ah, but it's a completely different core -- something actually deserving of a new number prefix for once. :p
by Mussels (April 24th - 2:09 PM) - Reply
i may well look into the 4870x2 - just after a card thats cooler/quieter/smaller than my GTX (which seriously takes 4 slots with the cooling i have on it) and less power use at idle.

Then again, i dont NEED it... lol.
by TUngsten (April 24th - 2:19 PM) - Reply
is there an ETA?

does W1Z have one under the microscope as we speak?:toast:
by Solaris17 (April 24th - 2:19 PM) - Reply
go ati nice come back
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 2:20 PM) - Reply
Anyone notice how GT, GTS 512, GTX and Ultra have more Texture Fill Rate
(# of TMUs) x GPU clock rate

&

Pixel Fill Rate
(# of ROPs) x GPU clock rate

but doesn't equate to the same level of frame rates found in games. But that doesn't necessary equal to the performance in games. In some cases it's only a few frames.



If you notice, the GT and GTS 512 models of these video cards have higher texture and pixel fill rates then 3870 regardless if it's twice as high or not. Yes, other factors come into play however, the 3870 doesn't lag behind by the same magnitude which is why I believe it's not very efficient.

Therefore, it will be interesting to see how the 4870 stacks up.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 2:23 PM) - Reply
by: mdm-adph;764017
Oh, I agree about the general nature of marketing BS, but how do you know that the 4870 X2 isn't going to be clocked at 1 GHz?
That wasn't the claim. The claim was that the HD4870 would be the worlds first production GPU clocked at 1GHz.
by lemonadesoda (April 24th - 2:29 PM) - Reply
@eastcoast, nice table. What a shame there arent standardised 3dmark06 scores in the table, e.g. same stock system like a Q6600 running same benchmark on each card. That would be a nice comparison. Without real-world tests, the stats dont mean a lot. It's like comparing number of screws on a sportscar. There is so much else that comes into the equation once the car gets on the track.

*EDIT*
Wait, I've just found this on google:

Benchmark HD 4870 on beta drivers vs. HD 3870, HD 3870 Crossfire on Cat 8.4 and 8800GT here: HD.3870.3Dmark06=12,590 vs. HD.4870.3Dmark06benchmark.leak.html=21,223 :D

ROFL WARNING
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 2:31 PM) - Reply
by: Pinchy;764039
All paper talk. Lets just wait for the benchies :)...

We all know what happened with the "awesome" specs of the 2900's.
+1!!!
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 2:39 PM) - Reply
by: lemonadesoda;764082
@eastcoast, nice table. What a shame there arent standardised 3dmark06 scores in the table. That would be nice

*edit*
I've just found this on google:

ATI's RV770 will be rated at a fill rate of 20.8-27.2 GTexel/s (excluding X2 version), benchmarks against HD 3870 here: HD.3870.3Dmark06=13,340 vs. :D HD.4870.3Dmark06benchmark.leak.html=21,223 :D

It's not my table, I googled for it :D. In any case as you can see the magnitude of the texture and pixel fill rates between competing cards leaves a pretty large gap.
by Weer (April 24th - 2:52 PM) - Reply
I'm sorry, wasn't I thinking about buying an X1950 just one year ago?
How many more numbers are they going to have to increase before people realize that they are repackaging the same old crap?
by magibeg (April 24th - 2:55 PM) - Reply
by: Weer;764102
I'm sorry, wasn't I thinking about buying an X1950 just one year ago?
How many more numbers are they going to have to increase before people realize that they are repackaging the same old crap?
Could say the same thing about cars, or almost any product for that matter. Very few things are build from complete scratch and most are gradual innovations over time based on what works.
by das müffin mann (April 24th - 2:57 PM) - Reply
by: Weer;764102
I'm sorry, wasn't I thinking about buying an X1950 just one year ago?
How many more numbers are they going to have to increase before people realize that they are repackaging the same old crap?
a 3870 is not the same as a 1950 will its still a good card they are different
nvidia kinda did that with the 9800 series but then again didnt ati kinda do that between teh 2900-3xxx series?
by mandelore (April 24th - 3:00 PM) - Reply
wonder if the shader will be able to be independantly clocked like with NV cards? now that its unlinked to the gpu speed?

if so that would be awesome!! and a base core clock of 850mhz aint bad, and if the 55nm gpu allows some nice oc headroom i dont see why it cant be overclocked easily past 1ghz, but then again its all iff and assumptions here, still, pretty exciting stuff
by mandelore (April 24th - 3:01 PM) - Reply
by: Weer;764102
I'm sorry, wasn't I thinking about buying an X1950 just one year ago?
How many more numbers are they going to have to increase before people realize that they are repackaging the same old crap?
LMFAO , you're saying this about ATI???

try appling that rant to Nvidia, then you will be onto something
by Mussels (April 24th - 3:02 PM) - Reply
by: Weer;764102
I'm sorry, wasn't I thinking about buying an X1950 just one year ago?
How many more numbers are they going to have to increase before people realize that they are repackaging the same old crap?
old, boring argument. geforce 2 and geforce 4MX was the same thing, GF 6 and 7 were very similar, 8 and 9 share GPU cores, ATI have so many i wont bother listing them all (9500/9800, 1600/1650, 2xx0 3xx0)
by mab1376 (April 24th - 3:15 PM) - Reply
im torn between the 4870 and 9900gtx, im just gonna have to see benchmarks... :banghead:

im gonna need something that can play all games at 1920x1200 smoothly with all settings turned up since im getting a new gateway 24" monitor.
by substance90 (April 24th - 3:15 PM) - Reply
Nice specs and price ranges, but ATi really should hire some folk that actually CAN program drivers... when this happens, their lower prices will beat the hell out of nVidia or at least create some real competition.
by [I.R.A]_FBi (April 24th - 3:15 PM) - Reply
by: substance90;764137
Nice specs and price ranges, but ATi really should hire some folk that actually CAN program drivers... when this happens, their lower prices will beat the hell out of nVidia or at least create some real competition.
whachusayinwillis?
by das müffin mann (April 24th - 3:17 PM) - Reply
by: substance90;764137
Nice specs and price ranges, but ATi really should hire some folk that actually CAN program drivers... when this happens, their lower prices will beat the hell out of nVidia or at least create some real competition.
i dont think their drivers are the problem also nvidia has traditionally been the one with the driver problems
by Mussels (April 24th - 3:18 PM) - Reply
by: das müffin mann;764145
i dont think their drivers are the problem also nvidia has traditionally been the one with the driver problems
both have. repeatedly.

Aimed at no one in particular:
ANYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT NV OR ATI SUCKING CAN BE APPLIED EQUALLY TO THE OTHER ONE. PLEASE STOP THIS REPETITIVE FANBOI CRAP.
by [I.R.A]_FBi (April 24th - 3:21 PM) - Reply
by: Mussels;764147
both have. repeatedly.

Aimed at no one in particular:
ANYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT NV OR ATI SUCKING CAN BE APPLIED EQUALLY TO THE OTHER ONE. PLEASE STOP THIS REPETITIVE FANBOI CRAP.
i can honestly say the quality of ati drivers have fallen.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 3:21 PM) - Reply
by: mandelore;764115
LMFAO , you're saying this about ATI???

try appling that rant to Nvidia, then you will be onto something
Actually, he is just saying it in general. I don't say any mention of specific companys at all in his rant. For all you know he is talking about graphics companies in general. Of course an ATi fanboy would instantly take the defensive for ATi, and the fact that you seem to imply that ATi is innocent of this and nVidia isn't just adds more argument to your fanboyism. The fact is both do it.

by: Mussels;764147
both have. repeatedly.

Aimed at no one in particular:
ANYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT NV OR ATI SUCKING CAN BE APPLIED EQUALLY TO THE OTHER ONE. PLEASE STOP THIS REPETITIVE FANBOI CRAP.
Very very true.
by tkpenalty (April 24th - 3:27 PM) - Reply
Fillrate... meh all marketing BS. The drivers are the reason why the GPUs dont perform as the specs say they should. Anyway, analysing the fillrate of the HD3850s... it seems pretty obvious why the GPUs had less performance...

However they said "match" we want to see the HD 4800 series MOW DOWN the G92s...

-tkpenalty sighs- although its rather early to judge, I would be surprised if these manage to trample the G92 series. AMD for the R6xx GPUs have obviously had a deficit in the TMUs/ROPs, I find it VERY hard to believe how they oversaw that. Their GPUs have the shader power... but not the texturing power to compensate.
by mab1376 (April 24th - 3:35 PM) - Reply
by: [I.R.A]_FBi;764151
i can honestly say the quality of ati drivers have fallen.
when i had my x800 i always used omega drivers, they seemed better.

for my nv card i was using 174.74 and it blue screened occasionally, i downgraded to 169.44 for more stability, im waiting for a new WHQL driver soon. even though WHQL means a bunch of M$ people played with it for a while and said "yup, seems ok to me"
by [I.R.A]_FBi (April 24th - 3:42 PM) - Reply
yeah, latest whql is from december .. lame
by v-zero (April 24th - 4:03 PM) - Reply
Looks good, should be 1.5-1.8x as fast, should make the 38xx series rock bottom prices too...
by batmang (April 24th - 4:08 PM) - Reply
by: magibeg;764034
That seems extremely conservative. 320 stream processors to 480 is like a 50% increase in that alone. Then theres the 1050mhz shader speed to the 775. The faster memory should help a little, the fact its 1GB. I would say a clear 50%+ increase if i had to guess.
I don't want to set myself up for disappointment, lol. So I'm fibbing to myself. I'm really hoping its 50% faster. That would be fantastic. :rockout:
by btarunr (April 24th - 4:12 PM) - Reply
by: batmang;764180
I don't want to set myself up for disappointment, lol. So I'm fibbing to myself. I'm really hoping its 50% faster. That would be fantastic. :rockout:
Disappointment is become sort of a phenomenon off late. 8800 GTX -> 9800 GTX, talk about disappointment.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 4:28 PM) - Reply
by: btarunr;764184
Disappointment is become sort of a phenomenon off late. 8800 GTX -> 9800 GTX, talk about disappointment.
I don't see why everyone was so disappointed with the 9800GTX. It is exactly what nVidia said it was going to be. It isn't like they hyped the specs up and then released something that wasn't even close. I still don't understand why everyone heard "G92 based card with higher clocks" and then expected some beast that would blow away everything currently out. You knew what it was from the day it was announced, you can't be disappointed when a card comes out exactly as it was presented.
by Mussels (April 24th - 4:30 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764201
I don't see why everyone was so disappointed with the 9800GTX. It is exactly what nVidia said it was going to be. It isn't like they hyped the specs up and then released something that wasn't even close. I still don't understand why everyone heard "G92 based card with higher clocks" and then expected some beast that would blow away everything currently out. You knew what it was from the day it was announced, you can't be disappointed when a card comes out exactly as it was presented.
its faster than the 8800GTX, uses less power and runs colder. it also has better decoding for HD media (that was missing from the GTX and ultra, while the 8500/8600 always had it)
by Dangle (April 24th - 4:34 PM) - Reply
by: choppy;763952
sic, i hope this owns a 9600gt
A 3870GX2 pwns one of those.
by JrRacinFan (April 24th - 4:37 PM) - Reply
I wonder what the HD4650 model is going to be like.
by mdm-adph (April 24th - 4:37 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764201
I don't see why everyone was so disappointed with the 9800GTX. It is exactly what nVidia said it was going to be.


Well, it wasn't quiet. ;)
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 4:38 PM) - Reply
by: Dangle;764211
A 3870GX2 pwns one of those.
True, for about double the price, but a single HD3870 does not. A 9600GT is faster than a HD3870.

Edit: Actually it is closer to triple the price.

I'm hoping the HD4870 is better than the 9800GTX, or at least as good which shouldn't be a problem judging from the specs. I would love to see some decent competition at that price point again. Which I hope will drive prices down about $50.
by kylew (April 24th - 5:00 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764014
It is impossible because the claim was never made.


I love your logic! If it's not claimed, then it's not possible! :rockout: :rolleyes:

I am disappointed that it seems the 4870 won't have a 1Ghz core speed though.
by Megasty (April 24th - 5:01 PM) - Reply
Well atleast these specs seem to be more believable then the junk we saw a few weeks ago. I'm still aiming for the x2. Its stacking up to be sick monster. I wonder when we'll see a game that can use all that power :D
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 5:06 PM) - Reply
by: kylew;764239
I love your logic! If it's not claimed, then it's not possible! :rockout: :rolleyes:

I am disappointed that it seems the 4870 won't have a 1Ghz core speed though.
No, you seem to not be able to follow the conversation.

I pointed out that there was a claim that the HD4870 would be the worlds first mass produced GPU clocked at 1GHz and asked what happened to that.

He then said it went away just like 100% efficient SLI. Which implies that somewhere it was claimed that SLI would be 100% efficient.

I then asked him to show me where that was claimed, which he was unable to do because it was never claimed. I never said it wasn't possible, I said it wasn't possible for him to produce an article with that claim in it because no article exists.
by kylew (April 24th - 5:07 PM) - Reply
by: batmang;764031
I'm gonna guess 15% at default clocks.
lol at you, plucking random figures from the air. 320 SPs versus 480 SPs, what's the increase there? 50%? Correct. Even the clock increase to 850 on the core is 10%, never mind the independent shader clock. Use common sense and you wouldn't have to pluck random figures out of the air.
by kylew (April 24th - 5:08 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764254
No, you seem to not be able to follow the conversation.

I pointed out that there was a claim that the HD4870 would be the worlds first mass produced GPU clocked at 1GHz and asked what happened to that.

He then said it went away just like 100% efficient SLI. Which implies that somewhere it was claimed that SLI would be 100% efficient.

I then asked him to show me where that was claimed, which he was unable to do because it was never claimed. I never said it wasn't possible, I said it wasn't possible for him to produce an article with that claim in it because no article exists.
*Cough* I was joking :rolleyes: that's why I didn't quote your whole post :D
by lemonadesoda (April 24th - 5:10 PM) - Reply
The renumbering of GPUs is causing market confusion. (Perhaps a few TPU experts canbe excepted from the generalisation). Imagine if every year there was a different car model number. The amount of advertising, reposition of brand and model, and confusion in the marketplace as to which model to buy etc.

I think the same thing is true in the GPU market. There used to be some "stability" were the number increases of the cards were in 50s or 100s. Now we have a 1000 change from one Q to the next.

Too much I say. I'm not confused. But I DO HAVE TO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME researching ans staying on top of this product confusion.

Or are the GPU manufacturers doing this DELIBERATELY to get FREE advertising on the various websites and magazines? If they went from 3870 to 3875, perhaps they wouldnt get so much free advertising as when they go from 3870 to 4870 and the "rumours", and the "no tech spec yet", and "tech spec tomorrow", etc. fills the web with all sorts of "brand awareness" copy+paste.

IMO this just goes to show that PR and ad agencies get paid on the WRONG METRIC. They get "paid" for how often information is linked to between websites, and how far up the search engines the information appears.

This only ENCOURAGES smoke and mirrors and tech-site discussion to create page-count to hit the search engines.

AAAARRRGGGHHHH cynic.

Benchmark HD 4870 on beta drivers vs. HD 3870, HD 3870 Crossfire on Cat 8.4 and 8800GT here: HD.3870.3Dmark06=12,590 vs. HD.4870.3Dmark06benchmark.leak.html=21,223 :D. It's definitely MUCH faster than you were expecting :roll:

ROFL WARNING
by kylew (April 24th - 5:21 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764085
+1!!!

:rolleyes: We actually know this is based on R600 tech though, so we know what the worst will be, and consdidering the 3800s panned out the be pretty good cards (8800 G92s actually ended up with a larger AA hit in the end).
by kylew (April 24th - 5:25 PM) - Reply
by: lemonadesoda;764262
The renumbering of GPUs is causing market confusion. (Perhaps a few TPU experts canbe excepted from the generalisation). Imagine if every year there was a different car model number. The amount of advertising, reposition of brand and model, and confusion in the marketplace as to which model to buy etc.

I think the same thing is true in the GPU market. There used to be some "stability" were the number increases of the cards were in 50s or 100s. Now we have a 1000 change from one Q to the next.

Too much I say. I'm not confused. But I DO HAVE TO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME researching ans staying on top of this product confusion.

Or are the GPU manufacturers doing this DELIBERATELY to get FREE advertising on the various websites and magazines? If they went from 3870 to 3875, perhaps they wouldnt get so much free advertising as when they go from 3870 to 4870 and the "rumours", and the "no tech spec yet", and "tech spec tomorrow", etc. fills the web with all sorts of "brand awareness" copy+paste.

IMO this just goes to show that PR and ad agencies get paid on the WRONG METRIC. They get "paid" for how often information is linked to between websites, and how far up the search engines the information appears.

This only ENCOURAGES smoke and mirrors and tech-site discussion to create page-count to hit the search engines.

AAAARRRGGGHHHH cynic.

Benchmark HD 4870 on beta drivers vs. HD 3870, HD 3870 Crossfire on Cat 8.4 and 8800GT here: HD.3870.3Dmark06=12,590 vs. HD.4870.3Dmark06benchmark.leak.html=21,223 :D. It's definitely MUCH faster than you were expecting :roll:

ROFL WARNING
It's a new gen, it's how it works. It would be confusing, and pointless, to try and give products names in small increments of say 25. You're trying to base it on a big number = performance way of thinking about it, when we know a 3600 isn't faster than a 2900. It's a way of distinguishing a different tech. Especially considering the 4XXX are new cores, tweaked from an older architecture, the new name is worthy. At least it's a much larger improvement between HD 2 to HD 3 series.
by kylew (April 24th - 5:27 PM) - Reply
by: Weer;764102
I'm sorry, wasn't I thinking about buying an X1950 just one year ago?
How many more numbers are they going to have to increase before people realize that they are repackaging the same old crap?


Did you know that you have an 9800GTX? No? Well you do now :eek: :D
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 5:53 PM) - Reply
I don't think it's going to be the 4870 that will be most impressive but the 4870 X2 if rumors are true that it will be 2 GPUs recognized as 1 GPU using shared memory. If that turns out to be true then:
-future video cards as we know it will change
-it will leave a Nvidia without a competing card (unless the GT200 is a dual GPU solution)
if done successfully via price, performance and innovation. This is what I really want to know most. The 4870 won't be bad IMO and at it's price it will be a competing card but it's the 4870 X2 I want to see. Only time will tell, can't wait. :p But remember there is still R800 we haven't seen/heard a peep from yet and it was talked about and rumored to be in development as far as last year (that I know of).
by Mussels (April 24th - 6:05 PM) - Reply
by: lemonadesoda;764262
The renumbering of GPUs is causing market confusion. (Perhaps a few TPU experts canbe excepted from the generalisation). Imagine if every year there was a different car model number. The amount of advertising, reposition of brand and model, and confusion in the marketplace as to which model to buy etc.

I think the same thing is true in the GPU market. There used to be some "stability" were the number increases of the cards were in 50s or 100s. Now we have a 1000 change from one Q to the next.

Too much I say. I'm not confused. But I DO HAVE TO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME researching ans staying on top of this product confusion.

Or are the GPU manufacturers doing this DELIBERATELY to get FREE advertising on the various websites and magazines? If they went from 3870 to 3875, perhaps they wouldnt get so much free advertising as when they go from 3870 to 4870 and the "rumours", and the "no tech spec yet", and "tech spec tomorrow", etc. fills the web with all sorts of "brand awareness" copy+paste.

IMO this just goes to show that PR and ad agencies get paid on the WRONG METRIC. They get "paid" for how often information is linked to between websites, and how far up the search engines the information appears.

This only ENCOURAGES smoke and mirrors and tech-site discussion to create page-count to hit the search engines.

AAAARRRGGGHHHH cynic.

Benchmark HD 4870 on beta drivers vs. HD 3870, HD 3870 Crossfire on Cat 8.4 and 8800GT here: HD.3870.3Dmark06=12,590 vs. HD.4870.3Dmark06benchmark.leak.html=21,223 :D. It's definitely MUCH faster than you were expecting :roll:

ROFL WARNING
that 4870 score isnt that high - people are doing that in the 06 thread here in TPU. At a guess, that score is for the x2 version.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 6:39 PM) - Reply
by: Mussels;764344
that 4870 score isnt that high - people are doing that in the 06 thread here in TPU. At a guess, that score is for the x2 version.
The 4870 score isn't even real, he is rick rollin' you all.
by erocker (April 24th - 6:41 PM) - Reply
I think I know what "rick-rollin" really means now! Yuck!:shadedshu
by jbunch07 (April 24th - 6:54 PM) - Reply
ha nice try lemonadesoda! but my computer comes with "anti rick roll" protection!
i hope these cards turn out good. even though i just bought my 3870...oh well
by wiak (April 24th - 8:07 PM) - Reply
by: substance90;764137
Nice specs and price ranges, but ATi really should hire some folk that actually CAN program drivers... when this happens, their lower prices will beat the hell out of nVidia or at least create some real competition.

you should check you FACt before you say ATi sucks on drivers, last time i checked NVIDIA crashed vista many more times
by Easy Rhino (April 24th - 8:18 PM) - Reply
more graphics card options??? i just got a headache.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 8:24 PM) - Reply
by: wiak;764499
you should check you FACt before you say ATi sucks on drivers, last time i checked NVIDIA crashed vista many more times
NVidia also has a much larger market share, which explains why it causes more Vista crashes.(I believe I actually stated in that news post that some fanboys would try to use those figures to try and say nVidia's driver suck*). The fact is, that if you have more users, you will have more crashes. That doesn't mean anything in terms of drivers. We would need the percentages of people that had problems before we can make that statement.

Just saying "nVidia caused more Vista crashes then ATi, so ATi must have better drivers" is false.

Edit: *-Yep I did:http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=56282
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 8:40 PM) - Reply
^^That's incorrect, the number of crashes on Vista was the result of driver itself not how many people used the video card. The number of people has no merit to the fact that the driver caused the problem.
by Exceededgoku (April 24th - 9:13 PM) - Reply
^^ no you're incorrect, it's nearly impossible to find the real cause behind the matter. By your saying 1 person could have crashed a million times and that would be the reason... somehow I don't think so.....
by magibeg (April 24th - 9:17 PM) - Reply
No all of you are incorrect, this thread is about the hd48xx not whose drivers cause more errors. :slap:
by Mad-Matt (April 24th - 9:18 PM) - Reply
still the fact remains ...nvidia driver suck, there chipsets suck and if they continue on as they are , there next gpu will suck too ;)
by DaedalusHelios (April 24th - 9:22 PM) - Reply
If you only have an ATi/AMD computer and say Nvidia drivers suck you are an idiot. :roll:

How would you know? Thats right you wouldn't.

I have two ATi computers and two Nvidia computers. I have had more display driver crashes with ATi drivers but neither have EVER crashed my entire computer.;)
by das müffin mann (April 24th - 9:42 PM) - Reply
ok getting away from the drivers thing i cant wait to see some in game benches i wonder how they would stack up compared to nvidia's lineup in game (i dont care about crysis...lol)
by eidairaman1 (April 24th - 9:42 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764014
It is impossible because the claim was never made. However, the 1GHz claim actually WAS made. It is just more marketing BS put out by the graphics cards companies to trap the fanboys.
yet you were trapped by SLI Claiming over 80% performance gain.
by eidairaman1 (April 24th - 9:44 PM) - Reply
by: das müffin mann;764107
a 3870 is not the same as a 1950 will its still a good card they are different
nvidia kinda did that with the 9800 series but then again didnt ati kinda do that between teh 2900-3xxx series?
Sorry the 1950 Line Could not Overclock that well, 3870 and 3850 overclock very well and can be modified.
by kylew (April 24th - 9:45 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764525
NVidia also has a much larger market share, which explains why it causes more Vista crashes.(I believe I actually stated in that news post that some fanboys would try to use those figures to try and say nVidia's driver suck*). The fact is, that if you have more users, you will have more crashes. That doesn't mean anything in terms of drivers. We would need the percentages of people that had problems before we can make that statement.

Just saying "nVidia caused more Vista crashes then ATi, so ATi must have better drivers" is false.

Edit: *-Yep I did:http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=56282


Quick to call people a fanboy I see, you'll get called a fanboy yourself for disregarding the general consensus that ATi drivers are superior to NV's. Even the people who truly know what they are talking about see ATi drivers as being superior. But hey, you know better, because you like NV, they are in every way superior. :) :cool:

Based on the driver gains ATi managed to squeeze from the R600 cores, I find their drivers very impressive, and I'd say one of the reasons NV drives are "inferior" is because they're lazy on driver releases.
by das müffin mann (April 24th - 9:45 PM) - Reply
by: eidairaman1;764673
Sorry the 1950 Line Could not Overclock that well, 3870 and 3850 overclock very well and can be modified.
ok so what does that have to do with what i said?
by spearman914 (April 24th - 9:45 PM) - Reply
by: malware;763951
Thanks to TG Daily we can now talk about the very soon to be released ATI HD 4800 series of graphics cards with more details. One week ahead of its presumable release date, general specifications of the new cards have been revealed. All Radeon 4800 graphics will use the 55nm TSMC produced RV770 GPU, that include over 800 million transistors, 480 stream processors or shader units (96+384), 32 texture units, 16 ROPs, a 256-bit memory controller (512-bit for the Radeon 4870 X2) and native GDDR3/4/5 support as reported before. At first, AMD's graphics division will launch three new cards - Radeon HD 4850, 4870 and 4870 X2:
  • ATI Radeon HD 4850 - 650MHz/850MHz/1140MHz core/shader/memory clock speeds, 20.8 GTexel/s (32 TMU x 0.65 GHz) fill-rate, available in 256MB/512MB of GDDR3 memory or 512MB of GDDR5 memory clocked at 1.73GHz
  • ATI Radeon HD 4870 - 850MHz/1050MHz/1940MHz core/shader/memory clock speeds, 27.2 GTexel/s (32 TMU x 0.85 GHz) fill-rate, available in 1GB GDDR5 version only
  • ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 - unknown core/shader clock speeds, available with 2048MB of GDDR5 memory clocked at 1730MHz
The 4850 256MB GDDR3 version will arrive as the successor of the 3850 256MB with a price in the sub-$200 range. The 4850 512MB GDDR3 should retail for $229, while the 4850 512MB GDDR5 will set you back about $249-269. The 1GB GDDR5 powered 4870 will retail between $329-349. The flagship Radeon HD 4870 X2 will ship later this year for $499.

Source: TG Daily
HOLY CRAP at the 4870x2 2 GB vram. I heard someone say in tomshardware the core clock will be 1 GHz. And some say at christmas new versions of 4870x2 will be out at a 3 GHz core clock!!!!!!!!!!! This sounds like the end of nvidia. :(
by Nitro-Max (April 24th - 9:48 PM) - Reply
Im thinking the core clock on the x2 could be at 1000mhz if not more
by eidairaman1 (April 24th - 9:49 PM) - Reply
i was getting at the point the 3800 Line is a totally different animal than the 1950 Line.
by das müffin mann (April 24th - 9:49 PM) - Reply
i no i said that...
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 9:51 PM) - Reply
by: EastCoasthandle;764548
^^That's incorrect, the number of crashes on Vista was the result of driver itself not how many people used the video card. The number of people has no merit to the fact that the driver caused the problem.
Incorrect. If there are more people using the driver, then there will be more crashes. All the information provided gave us was the number of crashes.

Example: You take a survey. 25 people report crashes causes by nVidia drivers. 15 people reported crashes caused by ATi drivers. Who has better drivers?(I'll continue the example once you answer this question.)

by: eidairaman1;764671
yet you were trapped by SLI Claiming over 80% performance gain.
No I wasn't.

by: kylew;764674
Quick to call people a fanboy I see, you'll get called a fanboy yourself for disregarding the general consensus that ATi drivers are superior to NV's. Even the people who truly know what they are talking about see ATi drivers as being superior. But hey, you know better, because you like NV, they are in every way superior. :) :cool:

Based on the driver gains ATi managed to squeeze from the R600 cores, I find their drivers very impressive, and I'd say one of the reasons NV drives are "inferior" is because they're lazy on driver releases.
You can call me a fanboy all you want for disregarding that, because the people that truly know, the people that use both, will tell you neither is better than the other. Notice how I use both...I'm guessing you don't have an nVidia card in any of your computers, and probably never have. As for lazy driver releases, last I checked nVidia has been pushing out 2+ drivers a month, ATi is lucky to see monthly releases anymore.
by das müffin mann (April 24th - 9:52 PM) - Reply
hey guys lets get back on topic...
:D
by eidairaman1 (April 24th - 9:53 PM) - Reply
newtekie, quit trying to filibuster Nvidia's drivers- your liable to be assassinated lol
by imperialreign (April 24th - 9:55 PM) - Reply
defi - I find it interesting that full specs for the 4870x2 weren't leaked - which says to me that ATI is holding that back for the time being. Out of the 4000 series lineup, I think the most impressive will be the 4870x2.

I'm defi curious to find out whether it's being slapped with two RV770s, or if it'll be the first ATI card to stout to dual-core R700. If so, that would pose to be a key point of withoolding those clocks ATM.

Anyway we look at it, though, this series appears to be "bringin-it" back to nVidia. I'm really glad to see hardware between the two competing neck and neck again; it's better for all of us in the long run.



Either way, though - instead of snaggin a 3870x2 within the next couple of months, I might just keep on saving for the release of the 4870x2 instead.
by spearman914 (April 24th - 9:56 PM) - Reply
by: Xazax;763443
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2286045,00.asp

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2283081,00.asp

http://www.pcper.com/#NewsID-5540

Things are going to be interesting this Christmas..

Read these? Things will get insane in..
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 9:58 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764690
Incorrect. If there are more people using the driver, then there will be more crashes. All the information provided gave us was the number of crashes.

Example: You take a survey. 25 people report crashes causes by nVidia drivers. 15 people reported crashes caused by ATi drivers. Who has better drivers?(I'll continue the example once you answer this question.)


....

That is not correct, you are replacing the fact that the issue happened with the number of people who used the driver. The fact remains that the issues happened therefore, the number of people using it is not relevant to that fact. It only shows how many people who did use it experienced the same problem not the fact that people used it as to create some sort of arbitrary percentage.



by: Exceededgoku;764609
^^ no you're incorrect, it's nearly impossible to find the real cause behind the matter. By your saying 1 person could have crashed a million times and that would be the reason... somehow I don't think so.....

The reason was already addressed in a few articles. Google it on your own time as this really is getting off topic to this thread.
by eidairaman1 (April 24th - 10:04 PM) - Reply
seems the fanboys always try to change the subject of the topics, First it was Nvidia's 790i and now its this topic

KEEP THE FRAGGIN TOPIC ON TRACK!!!
by spearman914 (April 24th - 10:05 PM) - Reply
by: eidairaman1;764709
seems the fanboys always try to change the subject of the topics, First it was Nvidia's 790i and now its this topic

KEEP THE FRAGGIN TOPIC ON TRACK!!!
You just talked about something off topic............

"seems the fanboys always try to change the subject of the topics, First it was Nvidia's 790i and now its this topic

KEEP THE FRAGGIN TOPIC ON TRACK!!!" <---- Thats off topic


NOTE: So did I posted something off topic too due to this post?
by kylew (April 24th - 10:06 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764690
Incorrect. If there are more people using the driver, then there will be more crashes. All the information provided gave us was the number of crashes.

Example: You take a survey. 25 people report crashes causes by nVidia drivers. 15 people reported crashes caused by ATi drivers. Who has better drivers?(I'll continue the example once you answer this question.)



No I wasn't.



You can call me a fanboy all you want for disregarding that, because the people that truly know, the people that use both, will tell you neither is better than the other. Notice how I use both...I'm guessing you don't have an nVidia card in any of your computers, and probably never have. As for lazy driver releases, last I checked nVidia has been pushing out 2+ drivers a month, ATi is lucky to see monthly releases anymore.
They actually do release drivers monthly, and I have had NV cards, and I've returned them, as they weren't what I wanted. I considered going 8800GTX SLi, but I saw NV support as being sub par, so I steered clear of them. The reason I find ATi drivers more impressive is how much performance they've gotten out of R600s, especially when it comes to AA, that "issue" seems to have pretty much gone, and they've managed all this without the hardware advantages NV had with their cards.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 10:13 PM) - Reply
by: EastCoasthandle;764703
That is not correct, you are replacing the fact that the issue happened with the number of people who used the driver. The fact remains that the issues happened therefore, the number of people using it is not relevant to that fact. It only shows how many people who did use it experienced the same problem not the fact that people used it as to create some sort of arbitrary percentage.
No, it is incorrect to say it is a fact that nVidia's drivers are worse based on the survey that says they cause more Vista crashes. You need the percentages of nVidia users that had crashes and the percentage of ATi users that had crashes before you can come to that conclusion. The percentage of Vista users, is not the correct information.
by spearman914 (April 24th - 10:16 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764724
No, it is incorrect to say it is a fact that nVidia's drivers are worse based on the survey that says they cause more Vista crashes. You need the percentages of nVidia users that had crashes and the percentage of ATi users that had crashes before you can come to that conclusion. The percentage of Vista users, is not the correct information.
This sounds like your having a debate at court. One person say its opinion. Someone says incorrect I disagree. Then another person says I disagree with you. Then another person says your totally wrong. Then another person comes in and says listen to me your all wrong and then a cop comes in and shoots them with a 0.1 sec short lasting 1 hit ko rocket launcher.
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 10:16 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764724
No, it is incorrect to say it is a fact that nVidia's drivers are worse based on the survey that says they cause more Vista crashes. You need the percentages of nVidia users that had crashes and the percentage of ATi users that had crashes before you can come to that conclusion. The percentage of Vista users, is not the correct information.

What I addressed in your post:

...larger market share, which explains why it causes more Vista crashes...

which is wrong.
by imperialreign (April 24th - 10:17 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764690

You can call me a fanboy all you want for disregarding that, because the people that truly know, the people that use both, will tell you neither is better than the other. Notice how I use both...I'm guessing you don't have an nVidia card in any of your computers, and probably never have. As for lazy driver releases, last I checked nVidia has been pushing out 2+ drivers a month, ATi is lucky to see monthly releases anymore.
nVidia pushes out 2+ beta drivers a month. Usually they only have one alpha release a month. They're on par with ATI; only difference is that ATI doesn't release beta drivers left and right like nVidia does - instead, they rely heavily on feedback crews, and consumer feedback (us) for driver development. If there's an issue they're trying to resolve, we typically see either a hotfix or a beta release.

Now, if we start calling beta drivers as "official" driver releases - than yeah, I'll defi admit that nVidia releases more drivers than ATI does.



And saying that ATI is lucky to see monthly driver releases anymore is absolutely ridiculous - and you know that, man - ATI has been following the same 1 official driver release per month schedule since, what? 2004/2005? We all know round about when the next driver is rolling out, there's no guessing or hoping involved. If there was any evidence that ATI would start cutting back to quarterly or bi-monthly driver releases, we would've seen or heard evidence of that already.

I understand there's a debate going on, but in the heat of a debate one's comments can start coming across to be very fanboish - not calling you a fanboi, newtekie1, but IMO, that quote on the driver releases very much sounded that way.
by spearman914 (April 24th - 10:20 PM) - Reply
by: EastCoasthandle;764730

which is wrong[QUOTE=EastCoasthandle;764730]
which is wrong[QUOTE=EastCoasthandle;764730]

which is wrong.
.[/quote].[/quote]Which has 3 letters and 3 quotes in 1.
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 10:21 PM) - Reply
by: imperialreign;764732
nVidia pushes out 2+ beta drivers a month. Usually they only have one alpha release a month. They're on par with ATI; only difference is that ATI doesn't release beta drivers left and right like nVidia does - instead, they rely heavily on feedback crews, and consumer feedback (us) for driver development. If there's an issue they're trying to resolve, we typically see either a hotfix or a beta release.

Now, if we start calling beta drivers as "official" driver releases - than yeah, I'll defi admit that nVidia releases more drivers than ATI does.



And saying that ATI is lucky to see monthly driver releases anymore is absolutely ridiculous - and you know that, man - ATI has been following the same 1 official driver release per month schedule since, what? 2004/2005? We all know round about when the next driver is rolling out, there's no guessing or hoping involved. If there was any evidence that ATI would start cutting back to quarterly or bi-monthly driver releases, we would've seen or heard evidence of that already.

I understand there's a debate going on, but in the heat of a debate one's comments can start coming across to be very fanboish - not calling you a fanboi, newtekie1, but IMO, that quote on the driver releases very much sounded that way.
Yes, but it seems as of late, that the driver releases are coming later and later in the month. We are still seeing driver releases every month though.

As for beta driver releases, I don't care if it is beta or not, as long as it works. NVidia has come a long way in terms of keeping new drivers coming, they have come a long way from the early days of the 8800 series where they were screwing over their 7 series owners who didn't see even a beta release for months.
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 10:22 PM) - Reply
by: spearman914;764735
Which has 3 letters and 3 quotes in 1.


I am consistent :p but I think I said more then 3 letters :)
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 10:22 PM) - Reply
by: EastCoasthandle;764730
What I addressed in your post:

which is wrong.
No it isn't. It is well known fact that nVidia has a larger Vista market share than ATi, and in general a larger market share. The last report I saw shows nVidia having a 71% share over the descrete graphics card market(Q407 numbers).
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 10:25 PM) - Reply
Newtekie1, you aren't following your own posts any more. What you posted does not explain the crashes mentioned earlier nor does it follow up that you thought it did.
by imperialreign (April 24th - 10:26 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764737
Yes, but it seems as of late, that the driver releases are coming later and later in the month. We are still seeing driver releases every month though.

As for beta driver releases, I don't care if it is beta or not, as long as it works. NVidia has come a long way in terms of keeping new drivers coming, they have come a long way from the early days of the 8800 series where they were screwing over their 7 series owners who didn't see even a beta release for months.

exactly the point - but we can't say that nVidia is supporting better because they release more beta drivers. beta drivers are only a means for a company to get feedback from their crews and consumers, in an attempt to release better performing, more stable drivers; and overall a better product from hardware to software - most betas aren't even supported by most manufacturers because it's not considered an "official" release.

ATI just does things differently, and their drivers are quite stable and friendly without the need for numerous beta releases. Could their drivers be better if they did go the same route? Absolutely. I firmly believe that if ATI followed the same feedback method nVidia did, ATI drivers would perform much better than they do now, and we wouldn't run into the occasional hiccup like CAT 8.3 + Crossfire.




not trying to drag this side of the debate out - just wanting to clarify so others don't get confused in the ongoing pandemoneum
by newtekie1 (April 24th - 10:29 PM) - Reply
by: EastCoasthandle;764743
Newtekie1, you aren't following your own posts any more. What you posted does not explain the crashes mentioned earlier nor does it follow up that you thought it did.
I'm not trying to explain the crashes. What I am trying to do is make people realize that you can not draw the conclusion that nVidia has worse drivers based solely on the fact that more Vista users had crashes caused by nVidia drivers.

by: imperialreign;764744
exactly the point - but we can't say that nVidia is supporting better because they release more beta drivers. beta drivers are only a means for a company to get feedback from their crews and consumers, in an attempt to release better performing, more stable drivers; and overall a better product from hardware to software - most betas aren't even supported by most manufacturers because it's not considered an "official" release.

ATI just does things differently, and their drivers are quite stable and friendly without the need for numerous beta releases. Could their drivers be better if they did go the same route? Absolutely. I firmly believe that if ATI followed the same feedback method nVidia did, ATI drivers would perform much better than they do now, and we wouldn't run into the occasional hiccup like CAT 8.3 + Crossfire.




not trying to drag this side of the debate out - just wanting to clarify so others don't get confused in the ongoing pandemoneum
Exactly, I don't believe ATi's drivers are worse. Both have their problems, I just don't think nVidia's drivers are any worse than ATi's.
by EastCoasthandle (April 24th - 10:32 PM) - Reply
by: newtekie1;764748
I'm not trying to explain the crashes. What I am trying to do is make people realize that you can not draw the conclusion that nVidia has worse drivers based solely on the fact that more Vista users had crashes caused by nVidia drivers.

Actually you did try to explain the crashes (which is the post I original responded to) and you continued to do so in the last few posts. Not only does it not make sense it didn't relate to the fact that the issues were happening.