dark2099Well considering how ATI dropped the prices on the 3k series of cards like 5 times in a few months, by the time the 4870x2 hits the market I would imagine they would drop the price on the other cards (at least the 4850) a tad.

why right now they have zero competion at there price bracket AMD is a company and if there card sells like hot cakes and there is no reason to drop prices they won't

I await the Nvidia response which knowing Nvidia will be epic

freaksaviorOHHH!!!! :roll: ok.

So then the 4870 x2 probably uses about 300w.?

250W-270W only ;)

newconroerBingo!

And it's a dual gpu issue again.

I'd still pay the extra for the 280.


Ati is only hurting themselves by selling this, especially at a lower price.

Consider, before, with the 3800 series, they needed the X2, to have SOME standing vs the GX2 (even though the X2 lost the lower minimum frame rate battle to the 9800GTX in some situations).
Now, with the 4850/70, they're using the X2 to trump the 280, which is a bad move, as it takes away attention from the 4870, which is where they really can make money, if they spin that age old price / performance cliche.

And I will be watching for that gx2. How they could possibly fit w gt200s on one pcb, or two gtx280s together and still have it fit inside a case, would be a quite a feat, one I don't think is exactly around the corner.

As soon as that X2 drops, be on the lookout for Nvidia to top it. All the prices will fall, the 280 will still beat the 4870, the new GX2 will beat the X2 and we'll be right back where we started last year.

It doesn't take attention away from the 4870, they are in completely different price brackets. The 4870x2 is made to compete w/ the gtx 280, the 4870 is made to compete w/ the gtx 260/gx2. At least that's the closest you could come. However, ignore price, the 4870>gtx 260 and 4870x2>gtx 280. Then, if you put price in there, there really isn't any competition except for foolish purchases. Price/performance is not a cliche, it is capitalism and what every good product excels in.

And I'll be waiting for that gx2. How they could possibly fit 2 gt200s on one pcb or two gtx 280s together and make it work would be a true feat. 2gb of vram? I don't see it happening anytime soon.

As stated here earlier, the problem with a 280GX2 is it would be too damn expensive! as much as nvidia hate to realize this, this is the deal with huge, monolithic GPUs. and after seeing the sticker on the GTX280... i dare you to look at the potential price of the 280GX2 and not cry your wallets to sleep :cry:

X-TeNDeRAs stated here earlier, the problem with a 280GX2 is it would be too damn expensive! as much as nvidia hate to realize this, this is the deal with huge, monolithic GPUs. and after seeing the sticker on the GTX280... i dare you to look at the potential price of the 280GX2 and not cry your wallets to sleep :cry:

We all know that money is no object for NV :wtf: I would love to see a $1200 BSing monster so I can ROTFLMAO at the fools that buy it then brag about it :nutkick:

On the other hand, ATi comes out & blatantly say that they weren't going release a card over $500. That takes some guts, hopefully they're not puking them up now :p

for the first time in a long time i think im going to go with this the 4870x2 instead of the GTX 280.

yeah I quit nvidia too :)

X-TeNDeRAs stated here earlier, the problem with a 280GX2 is it would be too damn expensive! as much as nvidia hate to realize this, this is the deal with huge, monolithic GPUs. and after seeing the sticker on the GTX280... i dare you to look at the potential price of the 280GX2 and not cry your wallets to sleep :cry:

The GT200 cards won't be around long, nVidia screwed up on those, and they know it. They simply are not marketable. Which is why they are pushing extremely hard to transition to 55nm. A 55nm GT200 card will be much cheaper to manufacture, however they also aren't dropping their G92, which is also switching to 55nm.

I doubt there will be a dual GT200 card until the switch to 55nm.

newtekie1Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell this card for $500 when two HD4870's would cost you $600. They would be shooting themselves in the foot.

if they follow similar pricing to how the 3000 series went, the price of the 4870 will drop right before or the day of the 4870x2 release, and the price of the 4850 should drop further as well.


I don't think the release of the 4870x2 will hurt them at all - keep in mind also that the 70x2 will be a dual-slot card, whereas with two 4870s you'd have to give up 4 slots total.

If performance difference is similar to the 3870x2 vs Crossfired 3870s, the 4870x2 should perform quite a bit better than Crossfired 4870s.

We'll have to wait the rest of the month and see for sure, though

Did you guys read one of the hd 4870 review articles, I Believe it was anandtech.com, they made a rough estimate of how big the die would be if nvidia shrunk the die to 55nm, it would still be way larger than hd 4870, because the chip is too damn big period, the yields won't increase all that much either, but none the less they should help nvidia a little. For GT200 series to be effective nvidia would have to shrink them to 45nm, it is same as ATI, they shrunk the hd 2900 from 80nm straight to 55nm but it took them a while to do so. So even at 55nm would not be that much effective as we all think, the yield rate for nvidia are 40% for the gt200 series and after reading around the net 55nm would increase it to may be 50-60%, so 4 dead chips for every 10 they make. Nvidia would have to refine the architecture to make it smaller, may be dump the 512bit bus and go with gddr5 because the bandwidth is more than enough for even future games to come.

I have had nvidia parts for the last two years, I love no company but my wallet, trust me it is causting nvidia loads of money to make those cards, they would have to sell them at a loss to stay competitive. But I have already purchased an hd 4870 and I am pretty damn happy.

Pretty phenomenal to be honest. And no, the 4870x2 isnt cheaper than two inferior cards. Hell, the 4870 is an awesome card, dont know why you call them inferior. Some people cant afford to buy 2 cards out right. Hell some cant even get the 4870x2, however they can get one 4850/4870. It makes sense really and I love the price point.

naxeemUnfortunatelly, according to this:

www.techpowerup.com/64318/ATI_Radeon_HD_4870_X2_1GB_GDDR5_Nude_Shots.html

4870x2 will use PLX 2.0 on it's board, so no, no internal bus instead of CF chip. :(((

Does this mean that the 4870X2 is going to have the same microstutter problems that reportedly plagued the s3870X2 and nvidias SLI set-ups?

I think high benchmark scores are pretty meaningless if the subjective quality is not there....If microstutter is an issue, perhaps the single GPU 280 GTX solution is the best option for gamers who want some high end action.....especially when Nvidea drops the price in response to the 4870X2's release later this month.

MatTheCatDoes this mean that the 4870X2 is going to have the same microstutter problems that reportedly plagued the s3870X2 and nvidias SLI set-ups?

I think high benchmark scores are pretty meaningless if the subjective quality is not there....If microstutter is an issue, perhaps the single GPU 280 GTX solution is the best option for gamers who want some high end action.....especially when Nvidea drops the price in response to the 4870X2's release later this month.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about this stuff so I'll just quote someone else (Immortalz from VR-zone). The same sorta thing happened over there and ImmortalZ and a few others explained in this thread

They NEED the bridge chip, side port or not. How else are you going to split the x16 into 2 x8s for each chip? The so called bridge chip is actually a PCI Express Switch - it handles two devices on a single x16 port - or in other words, splits the x16 into 2 x8s.

You simply can't split an imaginary 16 pins into 2 groups of 8 and be done with it. Also, the bridge chip on this iteration looks much smaller than the one used in the 3870X2 and since the part no.s are edited out, we don't know what has changed.

It might be that the PLX no longer handles inter-chip communication - just 2 chips -> motherboard. The Crossfire sideport or memory sharing might be happening - we just can't tell.

always price is first thing in chose, cuz most people always upgrade them rig, so if you take a 4870x2 and it run every game release in year or more use very high setting , that will be best chose

Above everything, prices are meaningless.
Prices don't tell the performence, and this is a plain fact.
No matter is it Intel or Nvidia, their top-line product always have insanely prices.
Beside, I don't think those GTX200 series even pass 5% of their production levels. Top-end cards are for shows.
The company who has the crown will decide the prices of it. And who is below have to follow it.
ATI is following NVIDIA's tail atm, if 4870X2 really over-perform GTX280, they should price it equal or less than abit.
No, they are not doing so to get back or attract more customers, because there is no way a 500USD vid card can attract customers. No matter how good it perform.
It makes people think when the price is way lower.

Sorry for my bad English.

kid41212003Above everything, prices are meaningless.
Prices don't tell the performence, and this is a plain fact.
No matter is it Intel or Nvidia, their top-line product always have insanely prices.
Beside, I don't think those GTX200 series even pass 5% of their production levels. Top-end cards are for shows.
The company who has the crown will decide the prices of it. And who is below have to follow it.
ATI is following NVIDIA's tail atm, if 4870X2 really over-perform GTX280, they should price it equal or less than abit.
No, they are not doing so to get back or attract more customers, because there is no way a 500USD vid card can attract customers. No matter how good it perform.
It makes people think when the price is way lower.

Sorry for my bad English.

By your own words you've given a pretty good idea of what these graphics cards are. They are for a very niche' market. The GTX280 & 4870x2 were not meant to attract regular customers. The average person cannot afford cards of this level. But the people that can would usually be able to buy more one of them. These cards are overkill at the purest level. Even the GTX260 enters this level at its price point.

The more feasible cards out there are the 9800GTX/+, 4850, & 4870. Even if price is meaningless, which is never the case, then you should look at performance. People that buy these cards are not idiots. They will usually peer into the reviews before buying the cards. Its obvious that the 4870x2 will be faster than the GTX280. Also ATi can price it how they see fit. They are not obligated to follow NV high price complex. Therefore, when you look at the 2 cards themselves its not hard to make a logical descision about which one you'll buy unless you're just a fanboi that just want to stick with one camp. That's fine too but those people tend to override logic no matter what the case.

I don't think I did read a review that show facts that the 4870X2 out-performed the GTX280 yet, and myself, didn't say anything about the GTX280 better than 4870X2.
I'm putting the prices into considerations.
1. Prices can't tell the performence with top-line products.
2. Someone in this thread said 4870X2 gonna be between 400-500USD.
3. 400-500USD is not a way to inrease sale.
4. Some people said its out-performed the GTX280 at the price 600USD.

Again, top-line products are for shows, it's not main-stream products.
Unknow A guy: Wow, this VGA cost 600USD! It must be the best!
That was a simpliest marketing.

4870X2 is not main-stream product, and it's not going to have a price atleast equal as GTX280, to show it somehow comparable.

I'm saying all these things according to the prices that people posted in this thread. And this is just a theory.
Argree or Disargee, I don't really care, Im just trying to show you what I wanted to say. And if's my English is not understandable, I'm really sorry. :D

AMD has already made statements such as "The R700 will overwhelm GeForce GTX 280". Also, this product is to have a launch price of $499.

kid41212003I don't think I did read a review that show facts that the 4870X2 out-performed the GTX280 yet, and myself, didn't say anything about the GTX280 better than 4870X2.
I'm putting the prices into considerations.
1. Prices can't tell the performence with top-line products.
2. Someone in this thread said 4870X2 gonna be between 400-500USD.
3. 400-500USD is not a way to inrease sale.
4. Some people said its out-performed the GTX280 at the price 600USD.
Again, top-line products are for shows, it's not main-stream products.
Unknow A guy: Wow, this VGA cost 600USD! It must be the best!
That was a simpliest marketing.

4870X2 is not main-stream product, and it's not going to have a price atleast equal as GTX280, to show it somehow comparable.

I'm saying all these things according to the prices that people posted in this thread. And this is just a theory.
Argree or Disargee, I don't really care, Im just trying to show you what I wanted to say. And if's my English is not understandable, I'm really sorry. :D

They are only for show for the folks that will NOT buy them. The people that buy them are definitely not buying them just to let them sit pretty in their rigs :rolleyes: As bta said these statements are not debatable or theory. AMD already came out & said that it will be faster than the GTX280 plus only cost $499.

The term flagship comes to mind. Flagship is the best in the series while mainstream is what most will either buy or consider purchasing. I know four ppl personally that have atleast one GTX280. They didn't buy them. They got them as reviewer samples. I also know 3 ppl who were interested in the thing. As soon as I introduced them to this forum they lost that interest completely. Only idiots base purchases solely on price. If you don't buy for quality, you'll end up spending twice as much. However, if you only buy the mopst expensive all the time w/o researching first then you're liable to be had 9 times out of 10.

AMD doesn't plan to make a living off the 4870x2. If I get 2 of them, I'll be in the 0.5% of their comsumers that do. The 4870 & 4850 are cards that most enthusiasts will consider while the fabled 46xx & 44xx are in the lower end that casual ppl will consider. All these cards are or will be priced lower than NV counterparts, thusly making NV lower their prices to follow suit. Its called business or competition. NV's relatively high prices only cause problems for ppl who fall in the trap of buying things when they first hit the selves. ATi buyers don't have to worry about such things cause they know that will always get their money's worth.

Even putting aside AMD claims the 4870X2 will kill the 280 I'm pretty sure most reviews that included multi gpu setups in their 4870/4850 review had the lower end 4850 in crossfire often trumping the 280. The 4870 CF in some even trumping 280 sli. So it's not unreasonable at all to think that the 4870x2 will be quite powerful, especially if ATI pulls off the rumoured 15%ish gain in performance via an internal method of communication between the two gpu chips that some sites talked about.

kid41212003Above everything, prices are meaningless.
Prices don't tell the performence, and this is a plain fact.
No matter is it Intel or Nvidia, their top-line product always have insanely prices.
Beside, I don't think those GTX200 series even pass 5% of their production levels. Top-end cards are for shows.
The company who has the crown will decide the prices of it. And who is below have to follow it.
ATI is following NVIDIA's tail atm, if 4870X2 really over-perform GTX280, they should price it equal or less than abit.
No, they are not doing so to get back or attract more customers, because there is no way a 500USD vid card can attract customers. No matter how good it perform.
It makes people think when the price is way lower.

Sorry for my bad English.

You can buy a Ferrari car at speeds of 260 kilometers at a price of 300 thousand dollars and you can also buy a car at speeds of 260 Marsides at a price of $ 70 thousand, and that both have the same model

brian.caEven putting aside AMD claims the 4870X2 will kill the 280 I'm pretty sure most reviews that included multi gpu setups in their 4870/4850 review had the lower end 4850 in crossfire often trumping the 280. The 4870 CF in some even trumping 280 sli. So it's not unreasonable at all to think that the 4870x2 will be quite powerful, especially if ATI pulls off the rumoured 15%ish gain in performance via an internal method of communication between the two gpu chips that some sites talked about.

they're saying its gonna be about $500 or so, that's still $200 cheaper for the same performance or better, worth it in my opinion.

I'm buying a HD4870x2 for myself when its released, and I'm upgrading my girlfriends 7900GT to a HD4850.

I'll probably end up selling my eVGA ACS3 8800GTS (G80), what do you think a reasonable price is $200-250?

Added more clarity to the first post.

That "2GB GDDR5" is not a typo. Multiple sources point to the same thing.

btarunrAdded more clarity to the first post.

That "2GB GDDR5" is not a typo. Multiple sources point to the same thing.

Are they sick :rolleyes: I'm not complaining or anything but if I buy my fill of them this time, I would really feel like I'm stealing :(

$499, come on ATi you're still are billions in debt or maybe you're use to it by now :cry:

your are very correct

farlex85It doesn't take attention away from the 4870, they are in completely different price brackets. The 4870x2 is made to compete w/ the gtx 280, the 4870 is made to compete w/ the gtx 260/gx2. At least that's the closest you could come. However, ignore price, the 4870>gtx 260 and 4870x2>gtx 280. Then, if you put price in there, there really isn't any competition except for foolish purchases. Price/performance is not a cliche, it is capitalism and what every good product excels in.

And I'll be waiting for that gx2. How they could possibly fit 2 gt200s on one pcb or two gtx 280s together and make it work would be a true feat. 2gb of vram? I don't see it happening anytime soon.

very good point there!