| Wednesday, September 3 2008 |
Chinese researchers unveiled details of a general-purpose microprocessor with which they hope to give computing to the most ordinary people in China. The chip, code-named "Godson-3", was developed with government funding by more than 200 researchers at the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Institute of Computing Technology (ICT). Analysts suggest this takes China one step closer technological independence.
These chips are being manufactured by ST Microelectronics and branded as "Loongson" meaning Dragon Chip. Predecessors of this chip have been manufactured since 2001 and with its advancement marks rapid propagation of the Linux platform and other open-source software. These PCs would make it to as many workplaces and schools as the Chinese government can take them to. It is noted that the Godson-3 that has four processing cores releases in 2009 with a design that is scalable. In fact an 8-core version is planned as well. These chips use the 65nm fabrication process, with the 4-core version rated to consume as low as 10W. An interesting bit on the machine architecture is that these chips aren't x86 per say, but the designers have added instruction sets to simulate an x86-like environment. With it they hope to run a broader range of software, Microsoft Windows included. Since its a simulated x86 environment, a license from Intel isn't required. Erik Metzger, a patent attorney at Intel, says that the chip will only perform at about 80% of the speed of an actual x86 chip.
Source: Technology Review
These chips are being manufactured by ST Microelectronics and branded as "Loongson" meaning Dragon Chip. Predecessors of this chip have been manufactured since 2001 and with its advancement marks rapid propagation of the Linux platform and other open-source software. These PCs would make it to as many workplaces and schools as the Chinese government can take them to. It is noted that the Godson-3 that has four processing cores releases in 2009 with a design that is scalable. In fact an 8-core version is planned as well. These chips use the 65nm fabrication process, with the 4-core version rated to consume as low as 10W. An interesting bit on the machine architecture is that these chips aren't x86 per say, but the designers have added instruction sets to simulate an x86-like environment. With it they hope to run a broader range of software, Microsoft Windows included. Since its a simulated x86 environment, a license from Intel isn't required. Erik Metzger, a patent attorney at Intel, says that the chip will only perform at about 80% of the speed of an actual x86 chip.
Source: Technology Review
User comments
bootleggers anonymous!
that is soooo awsome go china
ange of software, Mircosoft Windows included
Spelt Microsoft wrong ;)
Interesting article... any news on the chip being available for purchase?
80% of an x86 is still impressive when you factor in the 10W power factor..WOW.
What socket d'you reckon these are? ;)
What socket d'you reckon these are? ;)
1./ "dragon" is not a good name in the IT world. That name has a history. And not a good one.
2./ A patent lawyer is an expert in IT architecture and performance comparisons, eh? "80%"? Rubbish. No emulator can perform at 80% of the speed of native x86 code. Not unless the clocks are different.
3./ 65nm, 80% of an x86, 4 cores, 10W. I doubt it.
4./ "And because the chip architecture is only simulated, there is no need to obtain a license from Intel". I dont think that is how copyright and patent law works. :roll:
2./ A patent lawyer is an expert in IT architecture and performance comparisons, eh? "80%"? Rubbish. No emulator can perform at 80% of the speed of native x86 code. Not unless the clocks are different.
3./ 65nm, 80% of an x86, 4 cores, 10W. I doubt it.
4./ "And because the chip architecture is only simulated, there is no need to obtain a license from Intel". I dont think that is how copyright and patent law works. :roll:
what socket is it?
nice.
government seems to be involved in every little thing in china
government seems to be involved in every little thing in china
by: lemonadesoda;959165That's a relative comparison. Each single core could be as good/bad as a Pentium 3, who knows, and that's comparing those cores to x86 chips with similar capabilities.
3./ 65nm, 80% of an x86, 4 cores, 10W. I doubt it.
Regarding patents, you heard what the patent attorney for Intel had to say. I hope NVIDIA takes note of this.
I'm sure the benchtest results will be hilarious. I can't wait to see 'em.
they will be budget chips for the less well off.
gives em a chance to have a decent comp...
gives em a chance to have a decent comp...
"Godson"??? Like in "Son of God"???
by: Exavier;959164Embedded methinks, BGA.
What socket d'you reckon these are? ;)
arent all cpu's made in china to begin with?
i agree it allows people to get entry level computing and for school i dont think they require much power either so it can reduce costs in that respect meaning they have more money to fund other things in schools
by: MadClown;959237Not designed by them. Besides, not all are made in China.
arent all cpu's made in china to begin with?
yeah Taiwan TOO they manufacture a lot of crap and so does Malaysia
by: lemonadesoda;959165yea but intel can't sure china, and what are they going to do, get an embargo agasint china
1./ "dragon" is not a good name in the IT world. That name has a history. And not a good one.
2./ A patent lawyer is an expert in IT architecture and performance comparisons, eh? "80%"? Rubbish. No emulator can perform at 80% of the speed of native x86 code. Not unless the clocks are different.
3./ 65nm, 80% of an x86, 4 cores, 10W. I doubt it.
4./ "And because the chip architecture is only simulated, there is no need to obtain a license from Intel". I dont think that is how copyright and patent law works. :roll:
China doesn't give a crap about patent laws. They probably used some kind of espionage, or some crap.
Some of the 45nm chips are made in mexico {I think} there was an article about them opening a plant there before the 45nm chips came out.
by: Nitro-Max;959352
Some of the 45nm chips are made in mexico {I think} there was an article about them opening a plant there before the 45nm chips came out.
china outsorcing to mexico, whata laugh.
china outsourcing is just a laugh itself
i want to see reviews either way its not intended for our market
i want to see reviews either way its not intended for our market
by: Nitro-Max;959352is this a wrong place post or what? Comeon China can takup the whole world's request and still left with workers without a job.
Some of the 45nm chips are made in mexico {I think} there was an article about them opening a plant there before the 45nm chips came out.
I feel sorry for them, as they are always trying to show independence on many fields. Intel and AMD should consult them.
No BTA, I didnt hear what Intels Patent Lawyer said, can you refresh me?
Its interesting to note China wants to make their own microprocessor. Im sure they could get a deal from AMD or Intel.
Its interesting to note China wants to make their own microprocessor. Im sure they could get a deal from AMD or Intel.
by: DrPepper;959318
or some crap.
I totally read that as a separate thought as opposed to closing a thought.
They may have indeed used crap however. This is China we're talking about.
In a way I'm glad China is doing this. It should help educate their people and hopefully help bring a good lvl of nation wide education (who knows).
On the other hand, I don't think China would care what/who's patents are being stepped on. If this is a China only product it probably won't matter anyway. But will it be a China only product?
Definately interested in the bench marks on it though.
On the other hand, I don't think China would care what/who's patents are being stepped on. If this is a China only product it probably won't matter anyway. But will it be a China only product?
Definately interested in the bench marks on it though.
lets give them a chance, i believe they can do it ! Maybe a processor for OLPC project
if china managed to produce a CPU with an acceptable performance , they can flood the market and bring the CPU prices to dirt .
intel may survive it , but I think AMD is not so lucky ...
intel may survive it , but I think AMD is not so lucky ...
by: DrPepper;959318
China doesn't give a crap about patent laws. They probably used some kind of espionage, or some crap.
Better than some countries even can not have mere possibility to make a crap.Also espionage is a Hi-Tech work,needs many intelligent pepole to accomplish it.A century of China is coming.Capisci?:slap:
China doesn't give a crap about patent laws. They probably used some kind of espionage, or some crap.
I lold
china chips :confused:
by: Caonima;959946I didn't say china were making some crap :confused: plus fyi China is quite a high tech country, do you know they have more university graduates than the US has children .... capisci <- :wtf:
Better than some countries even can not have mere possibility to make a crap.Also espionage is an Hi-Tech work,needs many intelligent pepole to accomplish it.A century of China is coming.Capisci?:slap:
Zerglings... He thought you meant ill will against the hive.
I'd rather not see China enter mass production. Who knows what they'd be building chips with! Hell, they can't even get dog food or kids toys right without killing someone... hehe
I'd rather not see China enter mass production. Who knows what they'd be building chips with! Hell, they can't even get dog food or kids toys right without killing someone... hehe
Apparently they can get 90% of your computer hardware right, just that they manufacture it, not design it.
by: WarEagleAU;959375They have done so for several years, it's evolving very fast. And no doubt they can't sell it in the west even if they wanted to due to fancy laws, it's still an accomplishment. Stolen tech or not, copying this kind of tech isn't exactly easy either.
Its interesting to note China wants to make their own microprocessor. Im sure they could get a deal from AMD or Intel.
Anyway, I read about this a few days ago, they spoke of 200 x86 instructions added, though it was unclear to what purpose. If the purpose is to actually run existing x86 software (including Windows) it could be interesting to obtain one of these, or the next generation. Performance of the previous models wasn't that bad, relatively speaking. And 8 cores at 20W, even if they're not as efficient, is still interesting.
by: hayder.master;960026
china chips :confused:
ooopps ! My bad sorry
by: Animalpak;960166That seems related to the article...
wow look at the temps with the liquid cooling, very low.
Damn everybody needs a liquid system, if you want to cool seriously your most warm components then usually are CPU and VGA.
Hope to get one me too.
It will be Chinese version of OLPC of something like ASUS are doing with Eee series (mobile and desktop). They have to produce very inexpensive parts, because there will be millions of computers to be made. Performance is not the only goal for this CPU. It can be a good general purpose CPU to build PC terminals and computers for education. You know there are still DOS programs in government administrations all over the world.
by: R_1;960190Actually the main purpose of the Godsons is independence, something a country like China prefers, requires in some cases and can afford.
It will be Chinese version of OLPC of something like ASUS are doing with Eee series (mobile and desktop). They have to produce very inexpensive parts, because there will be millions of computers to be made. Performance is not the only goal for this CPU. It can be a good general purpose CPU to build PC terminals and computers for education. You know there are still DOS programs in government administrations all over the world.
The Godson did in several years what Intel/AMD/IBM/etc did in 30 years. Within a few years China will be on par with if not ahead of our chips.
As far as I know all those machines run Red Flag Linux and are used basically everywhere in China.
Yes, but today there are computers everywhere around us. Not all of them are TOP computers to play modern FPS like Crysis. What does it take to design CPU for text processing or some simple web terminal machine. One core CPU will do the job perfect. 4 cores are some kind of luxury or future-proof design.
by: DanTheBanjoman;960161
yeh , i think they do this better
Right. Afterwards we find out it's just a rebranded Pentium 3, like the last time a Godson chip was "invented". I'm not saying they're not capable of inventing their own chip, but given their history of copying EVERYTHING, they're more inclined to go down that route...
by: 1c3d0g;960308Yes, Godson 1 and 2 were rebranded P3's. Because P3's at 1GHz uses 4W, had integrated DDR2 controllers, integrated VGA, 64 bit extensions and had a MIPS compatible instruction set.
Right. Afterwards we find out it's just a rebranded Pentium 3, like the last time a Godson chip was "invented". I'm not saying they're capable of inventing their own chip, but given their history of copying EVERYTHING, they're more inclined to go down that route...
Apart from performance apparently being comparable the chips aren't anything like eachother.
by: DrPepper;960083
I didn't say china were making some crap :confused: plus fyi China is quite a high tech country, do you know they have more university graduates than the US has children .... capisci <- :wtf:
No insult to China -- the US was just like China about a century ago (in regards to ignoring other countries' patents) -- but don't use the amount of a country's university graduates as a indicator to how hi-tech it is.
I'm sure Los Angeles has more high school graduates than a school in Seattle, but I wouldn't use this to say that Los Angeles is more "hi tech." :laugh:
by: Silverel;960144You definitely have prejudice to China,and I wanna tell you conspiratorial theories are also used in China.Chinese are not sure about CPU designed by USA might with some gimmicks,also have a conspiracy that Coca Cola specially added some gene-changing additives sold in China.:shadedshu
Zerglings... He thought you meant ill will against the hive.
I'd rather not see China enter mass production. Who knows what they'd be building chips with! Hell, they can't even get dog food or kids toys right without killing someone... hehe
by: DanTheBanjoman;960326
Yes, Godson 1 and 2 were rebranded P3's. Because P3's at 1GHz uses 4W, had integrated DDR2 controllers, integrated VGA, 64 bit extensions and had a MIPS compatible instruction set.
Apart from performance apparently being comparable the chips aren't anything like eachother.
Sounds like I touched a nerve with you today. None of us on this board have access to these CPU's, so everything I read about this supposedly awesome Godson CPU I take with a grain of salt, especially knowing their previous craptacular history. All they do is talk, but there's no substance, no proof that they've really invented something unique here.
by: 1c3d0g;960557No nerve touched, just find it odd that you believe it's anything like a P3 while it's nothing alike. And sure none of us have one, that doesn't magically mean it's not using a MIPS instruction set and the likes.
Sounds like I touched a nerve with you today. None of us on this board have access to these CPU's, so everything I read about this supposedly awesome Godson CPU I take with a grain of salt, especially knowing their previous craptacular history. All they do is talk, but there's no substance, no proof that they've really invented something unique here.
What exactly is "craptacular" about the Godsons history? I think it's quite amazing.
Government funding?
Meh, so much for gaining independence with a free market.
Meh, so much for gaining independence with a free market.
Government pays for everything in China.
by: jbunch07;960648even the pawn :eek:
Government pays for everything in China.
by: 1c3d0g;960557I only want to say you've underestimated the Chinese abilities,so ignorant.Already having some products sold in China.Let me give you some colour see see.:nutkick:
Sounds like I touched a nerve with you today. None of us on this board have access to these CPU's, so everything I read about this supposedly awesome Godson CPU I take with a grain of salt, especially knowing their previous craptacular history. All they do is talk, but there's no substance, no proof that they've really invented something unique here.
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by: Ben Clarke;959162so did you, that is micro$oft.
Spelt Microsoft wrong ;)
Interesting article... any news on the chip being available for purchase?
Do you wanna see more?Go to:banghead:
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by: DrPepper;960083whats the precentage though compared to non collage grads compared to other nations. Thats alot more important, so what if 100 million graduate collage, that still leave 1.9 billion uneducated lol
I didn't say china were making some crap :confused: plus fyi China is quite a high tech country, do you know they have more university graduates than the US has children .... capisci <- :wtf:
by: candle_86;960885still 100 million is alot of smart peoples..... use them as a 100 million core processor :rockout:
whats the precentage though compared to non collage grads compared to other nations. Thats alot more important, so what if 100 million graduate collage, that still leave 1.9 billion uneducated lol
by: Exavier;959164That depends on a few things. According to ASUS software in idle my CPU runs 7.88w. The other is do they mean IDLE or full load.
80% of an x86 is still impressive when you factor in the 10W power factor..WOW.
What socket d'you reckon these are? ;)
Interesting name for it this mean it makes things around it hot :P.. J/K
EDIT:
I say go for it China as one thing for sure is AMD and INTEL are not moving all that fast and seem to be stuck in the past.
by: AsRock;960902
EDIT:
I say go for it China as one thing for sure is AMD and INTEL are not moving all that fast and seem to be stuck in the past.
ありがと。:toast:
by: 1c3d0g;960557Just so you know, the first country in the world that has papers and "gun" powder is China. They didn't use it for "guns" though, they only used it for firecrackers.
Sounds like I touched a nerve with you today. None of us on this board have access to these CPU's, so everything I read about this supposedly awesome Godson CPU I take with a grain of salt, especially knowing their previous craptacular history. All they do is talk, but there's no substance, no proof that they've really invented something unique here.
Everything needs a start, they can't just jump into the market with a super ultra fast CPU. And this is suppose to be their first product.
I'm looking forward to their products.
by: Caonima;961535isn't that japanese :confused:
ありがと。:toast:
by: DrPepper;961924Nope, they're drawings. Images say more than a thousand words.
isn't that japanese :confused:
images of what.
Good luck to China but i think some people are getting carried away. China has a long way to go to get any respect with technology. China is famous for poor quality and faulty products. They are also known for copying/stealing Western Technology .
The leaders is Technology are countries that develop new/improved systems not playing catchup after someone else has developed something.
I think China can get respect over time, like Japan had the same reputation for poor quality and stealing technology 40-50 years ago but now anything made in Japan is usually good quality.
Ya and whoever wrote that article, "per say" is incorrect. It should be per se
The leaders is Technology are countries that develop new/improved systems not playing catchup after someone else has developed something.
I think China can get respect over time, like Japan had the same reputation for poor quality and stealing technology 40-50 years ago but now anything made in Japan is usually good quality.
Ya and whoever wrote that article, "per say" is incorrect. It should be per se
by: Azazel;959167well, they are COMMUNIST.
government seems to be involved in every little thing in china
by: Caonima;960781
Do you wanna see more?Go to:banghead:
Yeah, the J-10. With its salvaged Israeli-designed fly-by-wire system (that it couldn't fly without) and the Russian engine. Your point? ;)
Look, I got nothing against China -- they deserve their time at the top like everyone else does, and they'll have it one day. Just be careful with the nationalistic posting of fighter jets and whatnot, okay? That's not cool.
by: mdm-adph;962669
Yeah, the J-10. With its salvaged Israeli-designed fly-by-wire system (that it couldn't fly without) and the Russian engine. Your point? ;)
Look, I got nothing against China -- they deserve their time at the top like everyone else does, and they'll have it one day. Just be careful with the nationalistic posting of fighter jets and whatnot, okay? That's not cool.
Typical stereotype,I accept it.バガ！