| Tuesday, December 9 2008 |
i5? i5! Core i5 would be the brand name Intel's mainstream desktop derivatives of the Nehalem architecture based on the Lynnfield core would carry. It is similar to its big brother, the Core i7 for the most of the part except for a few differences:
Source: ChipHell
- A current generation Direct Media Interface (DMI) Interconnect as chipset interface
- A 128-bit wide DDR3 memory interface (Dual Channel) instead of triple-channel
- Some more machinery from the northbridge migrated to the CPU, such as the PCI-Express root complex
- The newer LGA 1160 socket
Source: ChipHell
User comments
Super Pi score just like on my old E6400@3200Mhz :F
Not worth buying when the i7 920 price goes down (someday)
Also possible rival for Phenom 1.
Not worth buying when the i7 920 price goes down (someday)
Also possible rival for Phenom 1.
another new socket to make things so much more difficult...
Ok, Lynnfield and Havendale both have QPI, but it's only between the CPU core and the integrated northbridge. The northbridge is then using DMI to talk to the ICH. I don't know where this misconception is coming from, but all the new Intel processors will use QPI. :banghead:
You're right. Earlier reports showed it had an "FSB". Then we realise the P55 is only a peripheral controller (PCH) :o
by: btarunr;1097438one day we are going to be buying CPU's and plugging a monitor straight into it and it will be all you will need:laugh:
Some more machinery from the northbridge migrated to the CPU, such as the PCI-Express root complex
I really don't like Intel's idea of releasing two seperate sockets with the new generation.
It makes upgrades extremely difficult. You'd have to buy an extra stick of RAM to take advantage of triple-channel memory, along with a new motherboard, to complement the new CPU, if going from i5 to i7 (I guess that's how people would upgrade, rather than going the other way).
It's a huge outlay, and for not a huge increase in performance, the i7 920 as mentioned, will come down in price, and at the moment, it's not even all that expensive. I can either buy a Core 2 Quad, or an i7 920 for similar prices, the only thing making it an expensive purchase, is the need for DDR3, and the pricey X55 based motherboards.
It's a huge outlay, and for not a huge increase in performance, the i7 920 as mentioned, will come down in price, and at the moment, it's not even all that expensive. I can either buy a Core 2 Quad, or an i7 920 for similar prices, the only thing making it an expensive purchase, is the need for DDR3, and the pricey X55 based motherboards.
by: newtekie1;1097503another good base for amd marketing don't you think?
I really don't like Intel's idea of releasing two seperate sockets with the new generation.
It makes it even more difficult, because the average consumer won't understand why they can't upgrade from an i5 to an i7 directly, without upgrading the motherboard.
The extra memory stick won't make too big of a deal, as you can run i7 in dual-channel without much of a performance hit.
What disappoints me, and I'm sure this is one of the reasons Intel is doing this, is that you can't take a low end processor, stick it in a high end board and overclock it to hell and back to make it perform like a high-end. Because, now the low end uses totally different motherboards, and the best motherboards will be reserved for only the i7.
The extra memory stick won't make too big of a deal, as you can run i7 in dual-channel without much of a performance hit.
What disappoints me, and I'm sure this is one of the reasons Intel is doing this, is that you can't take a low end processor, stick it in a high end board and overclock it to hell and back to make it perform like a high-end. Because, now the low end uses totally different motherboards, and the best motherboards will be reserved for only the i7.
by: newtekie1;1097515yes is disappointing for end-user who is forced to buy new hardware for a minor upgrade...
It makes it even more difficult, because the average consumer won't understand why they can't upgrade from an i5 to an i7 directly, without upgrading the motherboard.
The extra memory stick won't make too big of a deal, as you can run i7 in dual-channel without much of a performance hit.
What disappoints me, and I'm sure this is one of the reasons Intel is doing this, is that you can't take a low end processor, stick it in a high end board and overclock it to hell and back to make it perform like a high-end. Because, now the low end uses totally different motherboards, and the best motherboards will be reserved for only the i7.
is like a conspiracy between cpu producers and mb manufacturer but other way they die
Exactly, I'd avoid the i5 platform and wait for at least another generation before upgrading, you could pick up any revised i7 40nm/35nm chip plus newer boards when they, along with DDR3 becomes much cheaper!
i hv a liittle problem in da screen shots, hvnt u any of u figure out that there 6GB of memory and it only has a 128bit dual channel memory control so how can there be 4 or 8GB's of memory
by: laszlo;1097519I don't think the motherboard manufacturers had much to do with it. Intel decided to use two sockets, so the motherboard manufacturers are kind of just along for the ride.
yes is disappointing for end-user who is forced to buy new hardware for a minor upgrade...
is like a conspiracy between cpu producers and mb manufacturer but other way they die
by: insider;1097523I'm sticking with my Socket 775 setup until at least the end of 09. And really, Intel will have 3 sockets going at the same time, as they are going to keep 775 alive for a little while until i5 is established in the market.
Exactly, I'd avoid the i5 platform and wait for at least another generation before upgrading, you could pick up any revised i7 40nm/35nm chip plus newer boards when they along with DDR3 becomes much cheaper!
Personally, if they were going to do the two socket thing, I would have like for them to just keep 775 going, and only release i7 processors.
by: janithdg;10975252x1GB + 2x2GB = 6GB in Dual Channel
i hv a liittle problem in da screen shots, hvnt u any of u figure out that there 6GB of memory and it only has a 128bit dual channel memory control so how can there be 4 or 8GB's of memory
by: laszlo;1097519
yes is disappointing for end-user who is forced to buy new hardware for a minor upgrade...
is like a conspiracy between cpu producers and mb manufacturer but other way they die
Remember it is a conspiracy between the CPU producers and the mainboard chipset producers.
Oh, they're both Intel! :rolleyes:
by: newtekie1;1097503
I really don't like Intel's idea of releasing two seperate sockets with the new generation.
Me either. :shadedshu Makes no sense. Why not use the same socket? i5 owners can't upgrade to an i7 down the road, which sucks. Either or, its nice to see variety.
by: newtekie1;1097503I was going to write a short paragraph in total agreement with you, however I wont because this cr*p annoys me sooooo much I would go ranting around the internet for a week and at my age that leads to coronary failure, in itself perhaps not too important, apart from the fact that it's nearly Christmas and I wanna be alive to open me presents, damn difficult to get all that sticky tape off when your dead!
I really don't like Intel's idea of releasing two seperate sockets with the new generation.
They will probably release a 40/35/30nm revision of the i7, but as you will all expect that is the same socket but requires another motherboard upgrade, haha suckers!
Depending on the price to performance ratio, I don't really see this as a valuable option to remember to customers, however I'll wait until the reviews & results are in. Not keen on these i5s to be honest.
Welcome to the forums dawg! It's always a good idea to fill your system specifications and you've got some interesting lingo, where are you from dude?
by: janithdg;1097525
i hv a liittle problem in da screen shots, hvnt u any of u figure out that there 6GB of memory and it only has a 128bit dual channel memory control so how can there be 4 or 8GB's of memory
Welcome to the forums dawg! It's always a good idea to fill your system specifications and you've got some interesting lingo, where are you from dude?
by: insider;1097538That is generally not the case when you buy quality motherboard from the start, and they have Intel chipsets(which is the only option for i7 and i5 is seems).
They will probably release a 40/35/30nm revision of the i7, but as you will all expect that is the same socket but requires another motherboard upgrade, haha suckers!
Remember Intel 975? lacks support for Penryn chips...
I thought it was called the corei7 because it was intels 7th generation of processor architecture wise.
by: DrPepper;1097581
I thought it was called the corei7 because it was intels 7th generation of processor architecture wise.
...meaning that the i5 is a step backwards? :cool:
by: Bl4ck;1097458
Super Pi score just like on my old E6400@3200Mhz :F
Not worth buying when the i7 920 price goes down (someday)
Also possible rival for Phenom 1.
Ah, but this thing is at only 2.1Ghz. AND this (SuperPI) is a single threaded benchmark.
Mix in an OC of 40% and gains from HT and you can expect 50% improvement, CLOCK4CLOCK. If it can manage that AND be more power efficient, then yes, Intel has indeed got a much better starting platform for the average PC owner and corporate PC. But, of course, there isnt the ZOMG of the i7.
WAIT, I dont remember the i7 pulling 50% improvement C4C. So maybe C4C the i5 and i7 are pretty much equal. Only in superOCability or on memory bandwidth intensive applications is i7 going to pull away from i5.
i5 might actually (let's wait for pricing) be quite a performance bargain.
by: lemonadesoda;1097586This isn't a new architecture and why skip i6 then.
...meaning that the i5 is a step backwards?
Ah, but this thing is at only 2.1Ghz. AND this (SuperPI) is a single threaded benchmark.
Mix in an OC of 40% and gains from HT and you can expect 50% improvement, CLOCK4CLOCK. If it can manage that AND be more power efficient, then yes, Intel has indeed got a much better starting platform for the average PC owner and corporate PC. But, of course, there isnt the ZOMG of the i7.
WAIT, I dont remember the i7 pulling 50% improvement C4C. So maybe C4C the i5 and i7 are pretty much equal. Only in superOCability or on memory bandwidth intensive applications is i7 going to pull away from i5.
i5 might actually (let's wait for pricing) be quite a performance bargain.
Actually, thats quite impressive. I get about 10000 xCPU score on my Q6600 @2.7. They get 25% better score at 2.1GHz. CLOCK4CLOCK that is over 50% improvement. HATS OFF if they can pull that off with lower power requirements.
by: insider;1097569It is really a surprise to you that an desktop chipset doesn't support mobile processors?:laugh:
Remember Intel 975? lacks support for Penryn chips...
Anyway, I assume you mean that the 975X doesn't support Intel's 45nm desktop processors(Wolfdale/Yorkfield).
In that case, you would be wrong. My old P5W DH Deluxe supported both the dual-core and quad-core 45nm processors. The chipset supports them fine, but that isn't the case with all motherboards based off that chipset. Which is why I said you need to buy a quality motherboard. If you bought a quality motherboard with a 975x chipset, it should support even the latest offerings.
Hell, even my P5B, which was the lowest of the Mid-Range boards when I bought it still supports Wolfdales and Yorkfields.
by: newtekie1;1097641...except i5 and i7 of course! :laugh:
If you bought a quality motherboard with a 975x chipset, it should support even the latest offerings.
(do not attempt to force a s1366 into a s775 socket! :))
Clock for clock it might be 50% improvement but the cost is well over 50% of your Q6600 excluding the huge price difference on the motherboard and DDR3 ram, >100% price difference on CPU alone?
by: newtekie1;1097641
It is really a surprise to you that an desktop chipset doesn't support mobile processors?:laugh:
Anyway, I assume you mean that the 975X doesn't support Intel's 45nm desktop processors(Wolfdale/Yorkfield).
In that case, you would be wrong. My old P5W DH Deluxe supported both the dual-core and quad-core 45nm processors. The chipset supports them fine, but that isn't the case with all motherboards based off that chipset. Which is why I said you need to buy a quality motherboard. If you bought a quality motherboard with a 975x chipset, it should support even the latest offerings.
Hell, even my P5B, which was the lowest of the Mid-Range boards when I bought it still supports Wolfdales and Yorkfields.
Yes but those boards (minority of them) is beyond reference design, something to do with the VRM being insufficient so all the Intel reference boards were rendered uselsss, just like the nv680i/650i boards. :nutkick:
Same base clock @133 as the i7
I can only surmise the PCI-E being brought to the chip is the big difference?
:laugh:
True, true.
I can only surmise the PCI-E being brought to the chip is the big difference?
by: James1991;1097496
one day we are going to be buying CPU's and plugging a monitor straight into it and it will be all you will need:laugh:
:laugh:
True, true.
by: insider;1097644
Clock for clock it might be 50% improvement but the cost is well over 50% of your Q6600 excluding the huge price difference on the motherboard and DDR3 ram, >100% price difference on CPU alone?
Wait, dont confuse i5 and i7 pricing. The i5 is sub $200, and there will be multiple SKUs probably ranging $100-$200.
But LOOK this is what is interesting. This is a MAINSTREAM not performance or enthusiast market, and:
It's 4 core and HT. THAT is a big change over 3 years ago (one core) last year (two cores) and next year (4 cores). It will make a big change in what a typical "mainstream" computer can do, and will mean developers will really start changing how they program apps.
Will it run GTA4? Yes.
The i7 is already selling for £240 at launch, I can see it drop to £150-£200 within the next 12 months, I just don't see how the i5 could add value when by that time you could probably pick up a Q95xx for peanuts and clock that around 4GHz+, better price/performance?
Then of course we've yet to see how well or poorly it overclocks which can change everything!
Then of course we've yet to see how well or poorly it overclocks which can change everything!
by: insider;1097646No one said Intel's reference boards were quality boards. I would never buy an Intel reference board.
Yes but those boards (minority of them) is beyond reference design, something to do with the VRM being insufficient so all the Intel reference boards were rendered uselsss, just like the nv680i/650i boards. :nutkick:
by: lemonadesoda;1097642Obviously...
...except i5 and i7 of course! :laugh:
(do not attempt to force a s1366 into a s775 socket! :))
I think Core 5 and Core 7 are way catchier names than "core i7 and core i5" but hey, thats just a completely insane person's point of view.
by: newtekie1;1097664Sorry I meant reference as in the VRM (power phase design), the vast majority of the boards conform to this, only a few exceeded the Intel spec.
No one said Intel's reference boards were quality boards. I would never buy an Intel reference board.
Obviously...
by: insider;1097669Every single ASUS board based on the 975x chipset supports Wolfdale and Yorkfield processors.
Sorry I meant reference as in the VRM (power phase design), the vast majority of the boards confirm to this, only a few exceeded the Intel spec.
This is where the quality part comes in.
Your original statement was about the chipset, ignoring the other requirement I set forth, which is false, the chipset support the processors just fine.
Then you moved onto the boards, again ignoring the other requirement of my statement that the motherboard also be a quality motherboard.
Stop arguing with parts of my statement. If you can't argue with the whole statement, don't bother.
OK I think i am missing something... The QX9770 only got a 13182 on the Vantage CPU benchmark... so are the i5's and i7's just getting HIGH result in the synthetics.... or is this thing really that much more powerful?
Yes if you mean beyond reference as quality, who is arguing, over what?
I'm just saying that the original Intel 975x platform reference design and it's VRM spec (which the majority of motherboard makers follow) does not fully support 45nm the chips, thus there is no guarantee that in the future current 1st generation i7/i5 boards won't lack some sort of additional hardware amendment/revision to support later 40/35nm chips, should there be one.
The older 945 chip could support 45nm chips given the proper VRM and bios support like the ASRock boards.
I'm just saying that the original Intel 975x platform reference design and it's VRM spec (which the majority of motherboard makers follow) does not fully support 45nm the chips, thus there is no guarantee that in the future current 1st generation i7/i5 boards won't lack some sort of additional hardware amendment/revision to support later 40/35nm chips, should there be one.
The older 945 chip could support 45nm chips given the proper VRM and bios support like the ASRock boards.
This is dissappointing, the i5 tops out on 3DMark V just over 13k, that is too close to the QX9770 as well as i7 if OC'd a bit. On the other hand, Phenom 2 is going to attempt to outperform the Q9550 with the 940 model, which is currently at a score near 12k so once its out I will be browsing at Overclockers Club begging that Phenom will hit near 13k now that the i5 is previewed. Quite funny that these guys got first dibs on the i5, I would laugh so hard if they stole it from Intel test grounds lol.
LGA1366 and LGA1160 may have a hard time of it. Intel must truncate the LGA1160 platform with respect to performance if LGA1366 is to have a justified existence. If LGA1160 is hobbled too much and LGA1366 is deemed to expensive (it really isn't IMO) then Phenom II will likely take a great deal of market share from both LGA1366 and LGA1160. Its a slippery slope.
by: origosis;1097687
OK I think i am missing something... The QX9770 only got a 13182 on the Vantage CPU benchmark... so are the i5's and i7's just getting HIGH result in the synthetics.... or is this thing really that much more powerful?
Same thing as i7, so yes, the synthetics make wildly inaccurate high scores DESPITE what synthetic lovers say.
:
My Q6600 Slaps this thing silly in Fritz, Wprime & SuperPi (and I stopped testing after that as I was clearly wasting my time)...
What have the Intel Elves been DOING over the past 2 years?!?!
Then again I suppose as long as AMD cant do a thing to oppose them - why SHOULD they raise the bar?
Imagine all of the money they would lose out on selling us this intermediate garbage...
My Q6600 Slaps this thing silly in Fritz, Wprime & SuperPi (and I stopped testing after that as I was clearly wasting my time)...
What have the Intel Elves been DOING over the past 2 years?!?!
Then again I suppose as long as AMD cant do a thing to oppose them - why SHOULD they raise the bar?
Imagine all of the money they would lose out on selling us this intermediate garbage...
by: BazookaJoe;1098844Easy on AMD :) We all know intel can't do anything until AMD shows them what to design :laugh:
:
My Q6600 Slaps this thing silly in Fritz, Wprime & SuperPi (and I stopped testing after that as I was clearly wasting my time)...
What have the Intel Elves been DOING over the past 2 years?!?!
Then again I suppose as long as AMD cant do a thing to oppose them - why SHOULD they raise the bar?
Imagine all of the money they would lose out on selling us this intermediate garbage...
that's mean lga 775 is died , ohhh that's quick
Im confussed. Doesnt the Core i5 handle the PCI-E aswell as memory, whereas the Core i7 ONLY does the memory ?
It's almost like nobody else here actually reads Intel's roadmaps. Here is why the separation between i5 and i7:
The i5 is the replacement for the Core2 series (LGA775). It has no multi-processor support, and lower memory bandwidth, as well as lower inter-chip communications (lower QPI speeds).
The i7 is the new Xeon line of chips (LGA771). They have already been rolled out in the server and HPC markets. They have MP support (up to 4S), very high memory bandwidth, and very high inter-chip communication speeds (high QPI). They will also be marketed to the extreme performance crowd, as Intel knows they will be able to maintain higher margins in those market sectors.
As an aside, we already have an example of Intel doing exactly this with the current generation of CPUs- the SkullTrail platform: marketed as an extreme performance platform for gaming, over-clocking, and any other enthusiast activities. This board only accepts LGA771 Xeon processors like the QX9775, which retails for $1500, fully $500 more than the same processor that does not have MP support, the QX9770.
I keep seeing the same thing on all these posts, and I guess I am the only one who gets it, as no one else says it. We won't see large drops in the prices for i7 because the server/HPC markets will allow Intel to keep them inflated. The i5 will be the people's chip, and that is where we will see prices falling over time. The only way for the price of i7 to come down is for AMD's new server chips to really outdo the i7, but I don't see that happening.
thanks
ap
The i5 is the replacement for the Core2 series (LGA775). It has no multi-processor support, and lower memory bandwidth, as well as lower inter-chip communications (lower QPI speeds).
The i7 is the new Xeon line of chips (LGA771). They have already been rolled out in the server and HPC markets. They have MP support (up to 4S), very high memory bandwidth, and very high inter-chip communication speeds (high QPI). They will also be marketed to the extreme performance crowd, as Intel knows they will be able to maintain higher margins in those market sectors.
As an aside, we already have an example of Intel doing exactly this with the current generation of CPUs- the SkullTrail platform: marketed as an extreme performance platform for gaming, over-clocking, and any other enthusiast activities. This board only accepts LGA771 Xeon processors like the QX9775, which retails for $1500, fully $500 more than the same processor that does not have MP support, the QX9770.
I keep seeing the same thing on all these posts, and I guess I am the only one who gets it, as no one else says it. We won't see large drops in the prices for i7 because the server/HPC markets will allow Intel to keep them inflated. The i5 will be the people's chip, and that is where we will see prices falling over time. The only way for the price of i7 to come down is for AMD's new server chips to really outdo the i7, but I don't see that happening.
thanks
ap
i am thinking the core i5 will be really good, so long as it gets good enthusiast motherboards built for it mmm i <3 my e2140 + asus p5k, but my cpu sucks soooo bad without a good board :?
im thinking thats how it will be like.
im thinking thats how it will be like.
by: newtekie1;1097503to bad, intel is doing this for exectly one reasion, to allow them to limmit/stop overclocking on their entry level stuff and force people who want to overclock and tweak to buy their enthusist platform for FAR more.
I really don't like Intel's idea of releasing two seperate sockets with the new generation.
all the overclocking on low end core2 chips they see as lost money, had they done something to prevent clocking they could have forced people to buy the higher end chips insted of e5400's or the like.
but hey, its instell so its the best, long live intel!!!
by: insider;1097569
Remember Intel 975? lacks support for Penryn chips...
That's kinda a flawed statement, I put 45nm chips in 945/965 and 975 boards a lot!
I don't really like the multiple socket thing myself...
Hopefully next round AMD will have something to better directly compete and force Intel back into a corner.