Bad Company 2 for the PC; don't hold your breath!

[kid41212003]

Er no, collapse building do kill people and destroy crates, so it's a very importance part of the game, a strategy. Putting holes on building create shooting path and expose hidden enemies too.

Damn, seriously, just wait and play the beta/demo.

 

[InnocentCriminal]

We will agree to disagree but the truth remains that destructible environments don't make the game. No different then any other physics effects. It's only an addition to it regardless if you played the beta or not. That portion isn't relevant.

I think it is an important feature for the game though, it's one of the features I'm looking forward to the most, even if it is a novelty it's going to be a very welcome addition. Could make or break the game for some - pun is accidental.

 

[twicksisted]

This is MW2. Except you can't prone LOL
Oh, almost forgot, you should love the 16bit sound. You want 32 bit sound? Get it on the console.

theres nothing wrong with 16bit audio... all music CD's you buy at the shop and download are 16bit 44.1khz... also on the types of speaker systems that you game on (5.1 surround systems and pc speakers) youll be hard pressed to notice difference between 16bit & 24bit audio playback if any

 

[EastCoasthandle]

theres nothing wrong with 16bit audio... all music CD's you buy at the shop and download are 16bit 44.1khz... also on the types of speaker systems that you game on (5.1 surround systems and pc speakers) youll be hard pressed to notice difference between 16bit & 24bit audio playback if any

This is very wrong. I haven't seen a 16 bit audio game since the Intel 386 CPU days. For the most part 24bit sound has been the norm. Using 16bit sound is actually going backwards. Remember, we are talking about games not cd's . If you want to do a real comparison it's the difference between a cd and HD audio.
It' funny what people are willing to settle for because they don't know better.

Edit: Since you brought up the subject here is a decent explanation of Bit Depth (16bit vs 24 bit)

Bit Depth refers to the number of bits you have to capture audio. The easiest way to envision this is as a series of levels, that audio energy can be sliced at any given moment in time. With 16 bit audio, there are 65,536 possible levels. With every bit of greater resolution, the number of levels double. By the time we get to 24 bit, we actually have 16,777,216 levels. Remember we are talking about a slice of audio frozen in a single moment of time...

1. Recording at 24/96 yields greatly increased audio resolution-over 250 times that at 16/44.1

2. Recording at 24/96 takes up roughly 3 1/4 times the space than recording at 16/44.1

A bit depth of 16 usually only allows us a sample rate of 48Hz. While a bit depth of 24 allows for up to 96Hz-192Hz. As you can see 16/48Hz is not OK. Not by a long shot is it ok. Even in win7 it should be set to at least 24bit which they consider it to be "Studio Quality".

Its not that 24 bits of data makes the sound better. It actually does not. What is does is give your audio more room to breathe in the numeric realm of digital audio. Remember, we are talking about numbers, calculations, not analog waveforms. With 24 bits of data demarcing your recording medium, its is possible to record extremely dynamic music, with very quiet soft passages and extraordinary loud passages.

This is the advantage right here. It's not that 24 bit audio would just sound better. The difference are pretty small. The main advantage is that it allows you to hear the dynamic ranges of sounds much better. In BC2 it's the difference between foot steps to hearing someone talking off in the distance. Then there are those explosions, gun fire and tanks firing, etc that gives 24bit the distant advantage within their dynamic range. It's just those sounds alone individually but in combination where 24bit truly shines over 16 bit. Those are the audio ques we've come to expect out of a Battlefield game.

 

[twicksisted]

This is very wrong. If you want to do a real comparison it's the difference between a cd and HD audio.
It' funny what people are willing to settle for because they don't know better.

Im a producer and studio engineer and have been making music and working with audio for the last 15 years... i think i am quite informed in this area to be honest

When working with and producing audio youll work in 24bit 48khz/96khz/192khz if you can but essentially its mastered at 44.1khz 16bit so that it can be made commercially available on CD and for retail.

24bit audio will obviously sound better on top end audiophile and high end studio speakers but not on most consumer brand speakers for home and home theatre use... and we are talking about a video game here which means that the playback will most likely be on someone TV 5.1 system or PC speakers with little to no chance of the user being able to differentiate between 16bit / 24bit audio on their speaker setups

Nothing wrong with 16bit audio, sounds just as good essentially and more importantly uses less CPU overhead and HDD space which when making a game for PC is an important consideration in my books

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Im a producer and studio engineer and have been making music and working with audio for the last 15 years... i think i am quite informed in this area to be honest

When working with and producing audio youll work in 24bit 48khz/96khz/192khz if you can but essentially its mastered at 44.1khz 16bit so that it can be made commercially available on CD and for retail.

24bit audio will obviously sound better on top end audiophile and high end studio speakers but not on most consumer brand speakers for home and home theatre use... and we are talking about a video game here which means that the playback will most likely be on someone TV 5.1 system or PC speakers with little to no chance of the user being able to differentiate between 16bit / 24bit audio on their speaker setups

Nothing wrong with 16bit audio, sounds just as good essentially and more importantly uses less CPU overhead and HDD space which when making a game for PC is an important consideration in my books

Read my edited post above. There it's clear why you are wrong and why you have to look at this more subjectively for gaming and not just for music/TV, etc.

 

[twicksisted]

Yes of course the technology is better, but does it make a difference in most cases?

ok well for starters there arent any consumer 5.1 PC soundcards that ive seen that output 32bit digital audio... so far its up to 24bit 192khz.... and even then most of them wont do 192khz over all 5.1 channels

Secondly if you had a crap recording and played it over 16bit setup first and the a 24bit setup, its not going to sound any better just becuase the resolution of the medium was higher.... its still a crap recording. having said this just becuase something is 24bit dosent automatically mean it sounds any better, its all about the source recording.

if the original source recording was 24bit audio and it was then rendered down to 16bit, its going to lose some definition but whether or not the human ear is able to distinguish this over the majority of speaker systems out there is very questionable or whether the speakers used can actually reach those extra frequencies and whether they are in the band of human hearing.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Yes of course the technology is better, but does it make a difference in most cases?

ok well for starters there arent any consumer 5.1 PC soundcards that ive seen that output 32bit digital audio... so far its up to 24bit 192khz.... and even then most of them wont do 192khz over all 5.1 channels

Secondly if you had a crap recording and played it over 16bit setup first and the a 24bit setup, its not going to sound any better just becuase the resolution of the medium was higher.... its still a crap recording. having said this just becuase something is 24bit dosent automatically mean it sounds any better, its all about the source recording.

if the original source recording was 24bit audio and it was then rendered down to 16bit, its going to lose some definition but whether or not the human ear is able to distinguish this over the majority of speaker systems out there is very questionable.

We are not discussing most cases and for the most part games use 24bit, we know that! We are discussing BC2 and the dynamic range of audio this game is designed to offer. This is why 24bit/32bit is better then 16bit for the game regarding it's dynamic range of audio cues. And, why so many PS3'rs are so pleased with the audio cues that the game provided. Because it was done so at a much higher bit depth!

This is why I said that if you want to do a comparison when the PC beta and console demo come out use the same receiver (a decent one preferably) and you will notice the difference. Oh and I almost forgot, they could indeed offer a 32bit depth for this game because they are offering it via software. It would simply need to be an option based on what kind of CPU you have but it's do-able. Heck, that can be done on OpenAL.

 

[kid41212003]

Windows 7's default for music is 16bit

And I have been listening to music and movies at 16 bit, and it's fine. At least for me.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Windows 7's default for music is 16bit

And I have been listening to music and movies at 16 bit, and it's fine. At least for me.

Windows 7 default music is set for 24/44 for me. Which is why I posted it.

 

[johnnyfiive]

Take that audio battle to PMSG's, wheres my BF BC2 !!!?!!!

 

[twicksisted]

the technology is better yes, thats not what im saying... I also diddnt post this to try and prove a point and say that you are wrong.

I did it becuase people pay too much attention to specs of things.... thinking that they automatically must be better because its higher specced when its not always the case with the end product.

 

[kid41212003]

Anything uses 24bit is studio quality according to Microsoft, why home user need studio quality? We're not exactly doing any mixing or editing here, and I could not notice a noticeable different.

It's seem like 24 bit have more echo, but that's it. Sounds in war game are all messy and overlapped each other. It's not classical music, come on stop making a big fuss over such small thing, and wait for the beta.

 

[boise49ers]

theres nothing wrong with 16bit audio... all music CD's you buy at the shop and download are 16bit 44.1khz... also on the types of speaker systems that you game on (5.1 surround systems and pc speakers) youll be hard pressed to notice difference between 16bit & 24bit audio playback if any

I disagree. The sound on Modern Warfare World at War
was horrible if you didn't have it set to 24 bit. If this
is the same I'm gonna be pissed. I love having great sound.
Try Crysis at 16 bit then switch to 24 bit. If you don't run a
good sound card and 5.1 then no need to worry I suppose.
Couldn't this be addressed thru a patch at some point. Why
would they do that to the PC version ? Sounds fishy !

 

[EastCoasthandle]

I disagree. The sound on Modern Warfare World at War
was horrible if you didn't have it set to 24 bit. If this
is the same I'm gonna be pissed. I love having great sound.
Try Crysis at 16 bit then switch to 24 bit. If you don't run a
good sound card and 5.1 then no need to worry I suppose.
Couldn't this be addressed thru a patch at some point. Why
would they do that to the PC version ? Sounds fishy !

I'm finally glad someone knows this isn't good in practice. If you don't agree then try any game that offers the option and see for yourself. Perhaps it's true it may not be 100% replica of how BC2 is developed it should give you some idea of what you are missing vs what the console actually uses. Perhaps some just don't care. As long as there is some sort of sound it's good enough. In that case this debate isn't for you.

 

[twicksisted]

its more of a case of how the the audio engine is mixing the signals rather than making up for bad mixing by having a higher resolution format to prevent clipping...

 

[Marineborn]

lol east, do you work for Infinityward, your are trying to bash this game and say how horrible it is at evert turn, when any blind person can see it blows the pants off lame ass 60 exspanion packs. EX. MW2

 

[kid41212003]

The current fashion in digital audio right now is "bit depth". As has been the standard practice for decades, audio is being sold by the numbers, whether meaningful or meaningless. And of course, everybody involved in digital audio transfer is now shouting about their bit depth. 16-bit? 24-bit? 32-bit? Hey, why not 64-bit while they're at it? Logic would suggest that the greater the bit depth, the better the sound. Accordingly, LP to CD transfer companies always point out their 24-bit process to make you think their transfers will sound better. But is there a genuine advantage to higher bit-depth transfers?

To answer that question, let's look at how bit depth relates to digital audio. The function of bit depth is to determine dynamic range. A greater bit-depth gives you more potential numbers between the zero-crossing point of the waveform and the peak, thus greater amplitude is possible. Or, to put it another way, a greater differential between the peak level and the noise floor. 24-bit might be, theoretically, quieter than 16 bit (which is already dead quiet). The popular way of thinking is that 24-bit has "higher resolution" than 16-bit, but this is fallacy. Resolution is determined by sampling frequency, not bit depth. To illustrate, picture 44,100 orange crates standing in a row. Those crates represent one second of CD audio. Bit depth measures the size of those orange crates. A 16-bit crate can hold 65,535 oranges, and a 24-bit crate can hold 16,777,216 oranges. Thing is, even if they held a TRILLION oranges, there's only ever going to be 44,100 of them. The resolution remains unchanged.

The question then becomes, just how many bits do we need? The dynamic range of 16-bit digital recordings is around 90 dB. Dead quiet to full-blown symphony. But we must consider how much of that 90 dB dynamic range we're actually going to use when transferring albums to CD. The best turntables are going to be in the 70's. The very best vinyl is going to be in the 50's if you're lucky, with most commercial releases hovering in the 40s. Yep. 40's. So - we only need a about half of the 90 dB dynamic range that 16-bit makes available to us. Why don't LP-to-CD services mention this little detail while touting their 24-bit transfers?

So now let's look at the resolution issue. The standard for CD audio is 44,100 kHz. This will theoretically give response to 22,050 Hz, according to the Nyquist limit. It is extended to 22,050 Hz to yield a flat composite response to 20,000 Hz when the multi-pole low-pass filter is factored in. Otherwise you would hear the quantization noise. But how do we listen to music? We cannot wire sound directly into our brains, we must use speakers. A speaker cone cannot stop at one point, then magically re-appear at another. It has no choice but to travel through all intermediary points as it goes from peak to peak. Thus, a speaker creates it's own infinite level of quantization while it reproduces the source. They don't mention that either, do they?

But here's the most puzzling thing of all. The common blurb for transfer websites is "Our transfers have higher resolution because we record at 24 bits at such-and-such kHz and then downsample to make the CD." Great, but for the fact that whenever you resample, you ADD NOISE. So what they're saying is "Our transfers sound better because we add noise to the signal."

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/24bit-vs-16bit-how-big-difference-280217/index49.html

 

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

Good read kid.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I'm finally glad someone knows this isn't good in practice. If you don't agree then try any game that offers the option and see for yourself. Perhaps it's true it may not be 100% replica of how BC2 is developed it should give you some idea of what you are missing vs what the console actually uses. Perhaps some just don't care. As long as there is some sort of sound it's good enough. In that case this debate isn't for you.

East I know where your coming from with this and I agree. Anything less than the console is BS. Its the principle. Im with ya there.

However I think the point people are trying to make is the difference between 16 and 24 bit isn't going to effect most people. Why? Think of it this way. Sound is fuel. The better the fuel (bit-rate) the better the performance (sound). But who cares about the quality of the fuel or performance if your driving a tractor! See my point? Most people dont have the equipment to even tell the difference between the two.

Now my issue is you cant lay prone! I mean WTF how is Erocker going to accept my love standing up?!

 

[twicksisted]

It may have been covered in the post already im not sure, but I think the prone issue is becuase the terrain is destructable... you can literally blow holes in the ground and apparently the maps change depending on what explosions and gunfire take place.... I think with this type of terrain it is too difficult for them to be able to code the prone position and have it work well in the game at the same time.... all other games where you go prone etc, the ground is static and dosent change

 

[TheMailMan78]

It may have been covered in the post already im not sure, but I think the prone issue is becuase the terrain is destructable... you can literally blow holes in the ground and apparently the maps change depending on what explosions and gunfire take place.... I think with this type of terrain it is too difficult for them to be able to code the prone position and have it work well in the game at the same time.... all other games where you go prone etc, the ground is static and dosent change

That would make sense.

 

[twicksisted]

Now my issue is you cant lay prone! I mean WTF how is Erocker going to accept my love standing up?!

 

[InnocentCriminal]

It may have been covered in the post already im not sure, but I think the prone issue is becuase the terrain is destructable... you can literally blow holes in the ground and apparently the maps change depending on what explosions and gunfire take place.... I think with this type of terrain it is too difficult for them to be able to code the prone position and have it work well in the game at the same time.... all other games where you go prone etc, the ground is static and dosent change

I so hope that is true, I don't think BC2 will be completely destructible but if it is, I'll shed a tear maybe more depending on how it performs.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

East I know where your coming from with this and I agree. Anything less than the console is BS. Its the principle. Im with ya there.

However I think the point people are trying to make is the difference between 16 and 24 bit isn't going to effect most people. Why? Think of it this way. Sound is fuel. The better the fuel (bit-rate) the better the performance (sound). But who cares about the quality of the fuel or performance if your driving a tractor! See my point? Most people dont have the equipment to even tell the difference between the two.

Now my issue is you cant lay prone! I mean WTF how is Erocker going to accept my love standing up?!

LOL,
I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy or not to buy the game. But as you pointed out we should at least have the same sound quality as the console. For those who don't care again, this debate isn't for you. But for those of us who took notice of this can and will voice our opinions about it. kid41212003, as for your quoted post it's an interesting read but really doesn't relate to BC2. It more relates to recording, dubbing, etc. Again, in BC2 the dynamic range has already been developed to work best using 32bit which is found in the console.
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In essence I've provided unbiased up to date information regarding this game. Some of the information is not positive. It doesn't mean that those who read my response to this negative information should take it personal. In all it's just a game .